Getting more access beyond iMessage requires another authentication (it’s definitely not just “enabling more checkboxes), and most importantly iCloud Keychain won’t even be touched without the required second factor (usually another device’s passcode on the same iCloud account).

But :shrug: unless I'm not seeing a broader picture or there are details here that I don't understand, it does kind of sound like this is going to have the same problems that Matrix has. Although, to be fair, I've run into validation errors and syncing problems with Matrix before that theoretically Apple won't have? So maybe it'll be the same UX, but slightly more stable? Although also to be fair, Matrix doesn't require me to update all of my computers in order to verify an identity and Apple seems to be saying that users will need to do that, so I'm not necessarily taking it as a given that Apple's system system won't have its own share of annoying caveats.

It's a tiny bit disappointing, my takeaway from Matrix is that this all needs to be easier to do, and I was mildly hopeful that there would be some UI takeaways from Apple's implementation.

Or maybe people will just be more tolerant if it's Apple asking them to jump through the hoops instead of an Open Source messenger? If that's the case, and if the UX really is basically the same as Matrix's, maybe some of that tolerance will bleed over to Matrix as well.

What "risk" is there? I'm not aware of illegal spying by intelligence or law enforcement agencies having ever had any adverse consequences for them, in any country, at any point in history.

In most of the world everyone knows that journalists and lawyers are being monitored.

I'd mention there are two big but abstract consequences.

1) The leaks significantly harmed international relationships and the result of this game much more ammunition to political adversaries like China and Russia. People argue that this is a consequence of Snowden's leak but that's like arguing that a mass shooting was only problematic because the news informed everyone. In a way yes, but it's not like those people would be alive if the news didn't report... It's not the real problem even if you wanted to argue over-sensationalism.

2) It seriously galvanized the battle for encryption and laid the pathway for the subsequent rapid rise in usage of tools like Signal and more funding and energy for building tools like Matrix and many others. Google's Project Zero certainly was influenced by this event.

While I get that these are more abstract, they are certainly consequences and certainly nothing to be scoffed at. This is another problem with the perception of consequences, is that often they are more subtle or abstract. But subtle or abstract doesn't mean any less impactful, just more difficult to trace. More opaque. We don't have a counterfactual to prove that these things wouldn't have happened without the leaks, but I'm certain the timing and degree would have been different. Do you think the world would be different had he not released them? I don't think this is an easy question to answer because it requires being exceptionally detailed and paying very close attention to a lot of events.

TOFU is a good idea when you don't want a central party arbitraring identities like with federated matrix. Makes little sense with apple.

Citation needed. Because everything I have ever seen is that iOS users almost all leave on autoupdate and the move to the latest version is the overwhelming majority, very rapidly. Seriously, look at adoption each time over the last 5 years on a site like statista [0] or wherever, or various ones aimed at developers. If you want to claim that people at higher risk aren't part of the 60-85% I'd honestly be curious to see your numbers. Note I said "decent" not "best" practices. Whatever its flaws, mixed incentives, and issues (which are real), Apple has expended significant effort in making the normal default paths provide an ok baseline security for regular people and discouraging leaving them. Which isn't even something a lot of HNers like! If anything, I'd be unsurprised if HN types to lag in some respects because we want more control and to do things outside the well trod path. I've jailbroken a lot, is that something most people do? No.

In this specific case, the minimum needed to avoid a zero-day exploit is (by definition) merely to always have the OS updated and all security patches applied while staying firmly within the walled garden. Which it's objectively clear the super majority of regular people do. If you just go with the default and let Apple update your device whenever Apple wants, then it's a truism that anything you get hit by is something Apple hasn't yet patched. And in turn anything that raises the population probability that the 0-day actually gets noticed and potentially reported raises the risk of using the 0-day. The whole point of this feature is that it'd let a normal person who doesn't necessarily understand threat mechanics go "huh, that's funny" and then maybe say so on their social media/blog/wherever, at which point if even one person who follows them (and we're talking journalists or other types with enough influence to get targeted by major threat actors right?) recognizes what's going on and says "quick call Apple/security researcher/tell HN" now it's out there.

>because those practices have no observable effect to them

Literally the entire point of this new feature is to create an observable effect of tampering. Kind of a weird statement in context.

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0: https://www.statista.com/statistics/565270/apple-devices-ios...