Unicomp's "New" Model M Keyboard(pckeyboard.com) |
Unicomp's "New" Model M Keyboard(pckeyboard.com) |
I would love to see the buckling spring keyswitches paired with some doubleshot SA profile keycaps.
This is a big reason why most of my boards are MX-type.
https://github.com/zevv/bucklespring
Might even be in the repos depending on your linux distro, e.g apt install bucklespring
I suspect some motherboard companies have people who still cherish their Model-M's, because support for them seems to be flawless. How many other completely unmodified thirty-plus year-old peripherals can you plug into a brand new computer and expect to just work?
I think modern cpus include the ps/2 handling in their legacy cruft section, so it's just a bit of signal routing and a connector.
You haven't typed on an IBM 029 card punch. That puts a Model M to shame.
You haven't typed on an original ASR 33 terminal. That puts an IBM 029 card punch to shame.
My hearing is shot. I'm not sure if it's the rock music or those old keyboards.
Can't beat a linotype for surround, though. Clanks and thumps from all around you...
It's led to some awkward moments in calls as the gap in the handle is just big enough to get my finger in easy and make it hard to take out.
that was the thing that finally soured me on them... my dell optiplex at work couldn't reliably handle the power surge especially during soft reboots and had a tendency to hang the whole system. worked fine when I was mostly in the office (and when I had coworkers who could reboot it for me if needed) but once we went WFH I had to have them unplug it until I eventually got my stuff...
Relevant context for others:
TIL that "it is practically impossible to write French correctly using a keyboard that has been bought in France", says the country's government. Because the AZERTY layout makes typing certain accented letters difficult (especially capitals), many don't use them, changing the language
<https://np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/5pwmqu/til_th...>
I've been able easily to write accented letters on linux since forever it seems.
When I notified them, the rep said (and I quote), "I don't really see the problem... can't you use it as is?"
He refused to replace it, and reluctantly refunded me the purchase price (but not the extremely expensive postage). So if I wanted to get what I actually ordered, I'd have had to start the whole tortuous process from scratch, and still be out of pocket.
The whole experience was ridiculous.
Purchased a keyboard from them back in 2015/2016 and really enjoyed the few months that it worked. There is something about those springs... When it stopped functioning a short while later I contacted Unicomp asking how I could fix and/or replace it and was told I'd have to buy a new one.
Probably meant to be as I developed the need for an ergonomic keyboard. Purchased a Kinesis Freestyle2 and it's worked without issue.
For me though I just chose to retire the Unicomp and refurbish my real Model Ms. I bought three about 20 years ago from https://www.clickykeyboards.com/ and sent them back last year. They're as good as new and they feel so good to type on. Plus I don't have those damned extra keys the "New" Model M has.
I had wanted to buy one, but seeing his always made me think twice, so never did.
Fortunately, we have offices far apart from each other.
I beat other kinds of keyboards to death in months. My unicomp is into year 4.
I had a stack of real Model M's from 87 to 93, that I got from a school system and refurbished in '97. Those lasted me an average of 3 years each. I got the unicomp after trying a few of the other brands in the gap after pounding the last of that stack into dysfunction.
I love mine. But I also heavily rely on noise-cancellation when I’m screen sharing or video calling.
In theory, they're probably "worse" than a brand new IBM made Model M was but I think people overestimate the feel of extant Model Ms that have been around for 30, 40 years now. I also found PS/2 -> USB adapters to be pretty flaky after a few years.
My comparison is a IBM made SSK and Lexmark made regular M.
Unicomp offers (or offered?) to repair those older "New" Model M (replace the MCU), but I moved internationally meanwhile, so this probably not an option anymore. I wished, they would offer the MCU daughterboard separately, so that I could install it myself.
Worked a university and availed myself of their "surplus junk" sales every 2nd tuesday of the month and adopted many a weird piece of hardware, and eventually had a stack of 3 decent M keyboards that I'd rotate through on my various systems.
Decades later, I got tired of the junky dell USB keyboards and tried one out in the WFH days and discovered ... too loud, too big, kinda too annoying.
I did, however, come upon a lexmark M4-1 keyboard, which has been an absolute delight. Good typing feel, has the trackpoint thing in the middle, not too big. Really quite wonderful. I don't even really notice the lack of all the fancy new keys -- I remap the capslock to whatever and it's almost like I'm back on my model f (or old "unix" keyboards of the 90s) with the control key next to the A. It's not the control key -- my muscle memory has firmly moved it to the bottom left / right, but the OS "meta" key kinda serves the same role.
I even got one of the model Ms with the trackpoint in the middle (no, not a black one) -- and I just don't like the feel as much as the m4-1, which the internet says is based on early IBM laptop keyboards.
Too bad the USB/PS2 dongle sometimes drops out and the keyboard reboots and flashes the 3 leds, which is somewhat annoying.
The Model F 122 puts the Model M out to pasture.
www.modelfkeyboards.com###omnisend-dynamic-container
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https://www.keychron.com/products/keychron-q5-pro-qmk-via-wi...
It's pretty easy to replace the key caps and it has a very good tactile feel to it. It does weigh as much as a houseboat but that's fine as I prefer it to stay stationary.
One thing that makes their keyboards stand out over almost any other mechanicals is it has a means of quickly swapping between three different Bluetooth pairings, so I have it paired with three different computers.
Now if only I could find an equivalent mouse with a mechanical switch underneath it that let me swap between three different computers wirelessly via BT I would be set...
After only like 2 years, many of the keys stopped working reliably. They'd double type or fail to register. I looked into it, and this seems to be a common issue with many mechanical keyboards. I tried some of the recommended solutions (blow dust out, use contact cleaner), and it improved things, but it's still not quite right.
I do like the feel, but I don't like the maintenance or lack of longevity. I'd be willing to pay more for a mechanical keyboard that is darned near maintenance free, but I'm not sure whether such a thing actually exists.
I have continued using my old (June 2, 1987) Model M at home, and now that I don't work at the office anymore, it's the only keyboard I use. I keep the Unicomp on hand in case of emergencies, but it mostly just gathers dust.
https://www.amazon.com/KINESIS-Advantage360-Professional-Erg...
^closest I've found, but $$$
I used that keyboard for about 10 years, then gave it to a friend when I was moving country. I moved back, and they gave it back. I used it for another few years, though a little less as it is so loud. Then I moved country again and gave it to a workmate who is a real keyboard enthusiast kind of guy, and I understand it's now back in daily use.
It's bigger than I want these days - I'm a fan of the TKL keyboard now. But I see they do a Mini!
https://www.pckeyboard.com/page/product/MINI_M
Hmmm....
It seemed very well built on the outside, however eventually a number of keys stopped functioning. Taking it apart, I found that the plastic rivets holding the assembly together failed.
It was repairable by drilling and replacing the rivets with machine screws. Although original model M's were built in the same way, the design or manufacture of these rivets on my unit is completely insufficient. I'd expect better for a keyboard in this price range. This also seems to be a common problem based on scouring the forums. I'd hope this would be re-designed in newer models, however also don't hold out much hope.
I don't miss model M; pre-topre mechanical is just obsolete technology now.
Initially, ~5 ft. cube walls were good enough when most of us had Sun Type 4 keyboards.
Then we got some IBM RS/6000 units, with clacky keyboards.
Your eyes go a little wide the first time, "Oooh... this is... loud... and nice..." as you start typing faster.
I think that type of keyboard was made for people who crave power, not for the nerves of anyone else in their office building floor.
(Never let the clacky PC keyboard people discover the Selectric II typewriter. Secretaries not only knew everything going on, and not only controlled access, but they also collectively tricked those outside their guild into never experiencing the exhilaration of Selectric II.)
I wish there were a bit more of a customization market, but I’m pretty happy with mine, despite it being beige on beige.
I love the clickiness, the heft, the fact that it's built like a tank. I am not a big fan of the PS/2 (2011 me worried about USB rollover and didn't expect PS/2 to die out) and my coworkers weren't big fans of the clickiness at all, but it's one of my favorite possessions.
It's a very loud keyboard. You couldn't use one today if you had to type during a zoom or teams meeting.
Wish they wouldn't put that hideous logo on it.
I've heard claims that the keycap shapes have decayed as the original injection moulding moulds have worn. But judging by comments above it sounds like they have resolved that.
Audio keys feel like a necessity for me nowadays. The Ducky one3 I use puts them where the LEDs usually go and I feel that works really well. There's also existing Model Ms but lack of Super keys is a total dealbreaker for me.
I was lucky enough to get an original IBM Model M keyboard from a friend when the lab he was at was clearing out their old equipment.
Plugged it in a few years back through a USB-to-PS/2 adapter when my basic Logitech keyboard crapped out for no reason.
Mapped CapsLock to the "Win" (Super) key, and...
...still using it, without feeling that anything's missing.
Some things have reached their peak form, I guess. A 3-speed city bicycle is one of them; IBM Model M keyboard is another. Glad there's a company out there making it.
I remap CapsLock to Super, and still use Model Ms today, via generic cheapo PS/2-to-USB convertors. (Any convertor with an LED on it should work, or that has 2 inputs; that means it's an active device.)
I tried an original Unicomp and it wasn't the same. Not even close to as nice to use. I doubt the "new" one is fully up to spec either.
I have been typing on these things for about 35 years now, and no RSI so far. Perhaps because they give my hand and arm muscles and tendons a good workout every day...?
1. It's out of stock, and I don't know if Ellipse is going to make more. 2. Even if it were "in stock", it would take months (possibly/probably more than a year) to get. 3. It requires two USB cables. This is stated plainly on the site, but it's buried in the numbered list of "important notes".
I have one. Unfortunately, I haven't used it for more than a few minutes due to that last point. I had envisioned using it on my work system, but requiring two USB cables kills it for me. I don't know if the Mac is unique in this, but it only registers modifier keys for the keyboard issuing them—that is, holding shift, cmd, etc. on one side of the keyboard doesn't work for the other side. For instance, cmd+o doesn't work unless the cmd key is on the right as well.
There are utilities you can install to get this functionality working, but I can't install them on my work machine (and even on my personal system, I couldn't get them to work, so YMMV). I had high hopes for this keyboard, but it's likely I'll sell it due to problems with my setup.
Mechanically, it's exactly what you'd expect: a Model F in a reasonably (if outdated) ergonomic package. While a leap ahead of standard layouts, the Ergodox has always had some pretty big flaws, especially in the thumb cluster keys.
In terms of feeling, the Model F is definitely different than the Model M. Some days I'd call it better; some days I'd call it worse. Claims that it's night-and-day are exaggerated, IMO. (I have extensive experience with the New Model F F62 and various Model Ms over the years, from old IBMs to modern Unicomps.)
The problems began after I started gaming on it - and I'd been using them for work for a long time before that (5 years?). You tend to push a lot and push hard when gaming to be sure they key activates, and it's not really ideal for your fingers. And yes, they're "not good for gaming" but that's normally about the deadzone and reset, not just outright causing RSI.
I ended up going through a period of trying out some other stuff, ended up with Rosewill RK9100BR, and then just went to a keychron k8 instead. I have a couple of those now.
My guess is that, for most people, myself included, once one has invested the time in learning any particular ergonomic keyboard (Ultimate Hacking Keyboard, Ergodox, whatever), the switching costs are annoying that one just keeps using it
A small number of people seem to get obsessed with the narcissism of small differences in terms of switches, or minute aspects of positioning, or similar matters, but I find that one hits diminishing returns quickly and it's less the keyboard than what's done with it.
Beyond nostalgia, I like buckling springs because they provide clear feedback about when a key actuates. Both the click and the "tactile bump" you feel occur when the key actuates. This is difficult to achieve and many keyboards (including those using Cherry switches) do not have this property.
Personally I've settled on Kailh BOX White switches as pleasantly clicky without too much resistance.
> they're loud and odd feeling,
you answered your own question. One person's hatred is another's love.
So Das Keyboard it is!
No thanks!
You can use the VIA software to physically remap even more keys and because they let you swap between windows and Mac those count as separate layouts and you can create completely different key bindings which is really handy.
You can swap out the Mac keycaps for windows keycaps (at least when I got it all, the windows keycaps were all in the box) and flick the switch to the windows position and it's a standard PC keyboard.
Mine is actually my Mac keyboard (I've got a ducky shine connected for my personal Linux/Windows dual boot machine as it's easier than fiddling with a KVM or synergy), but I've got it configured as a windows keyboard as I've just been using windows keyboards with macs for like a decade now.
I have a variety of mechanicals and none of them are like that (mostly cherry switches, but a Unicomp spring type also), but that also means I swap through them with some regularity so no one of them gets 100% use.
My main contenders ended up being:
- Glove80
- Advantage360
- ZSA Moonlander
- ZSA Ergodox
- Various alice layout KB's (not full split. ex: Keychron K15)
- Custom building some sort of sofle or dactyl - ZSA recently came out with the voyager which looks essentially like a wired 65% sofle.
Edit: A Dactyl with a trackball would be pretty sweet too. They seem to be getting a bit easier to buy now too.
I've also tried the Kinesis Freestyle 2... I'm much less of fond it, it might just be the worst keyboard I've used (especially relative to its price). Its switches are bad, even by the standards of membrane switches—to get keypresses to reliably register I have mash the keys so forcefully that it ends up being louder than the mechanical Ergo Pro. The keycaps are small, with a texture that's unpleasant to the touch. The cable that joins the two halves is proprietary, and the cable that comes out of the box is too short at 9", the 20" cable costs 20% of what the keyboard does and is still too short to fully utilise the split. The USB cable isn't detachable. Something about the way the right half is laid out makes it difficult to get your hand in position to use it. The Escape key's really out-of-the-way, as is the Fn key. Though, it does have a lot of macro keys.
I recently found a Gemini III P20028 which is nearly perfect except it is missing a “Command”/Windows key.
I also have an Apple Extended II which is my daily driver at a desk. And I have one of these Unicomp’s which I enjoy as well. I used to use IBM Model Ms, and like their switches almost as well as Alps.
For my own comfort, I’ve found switches to be more important than split. I’ve used Cherry and clones, and they really aren’t in the same league in terms of tactile response as Alps or buckling springs. It’s too bad they’ve become synonymous with “mechanical” keyboards.
I’ve liked the idea of many of the minimalist keyboards, but always want a full number row, dedicated Esc, brackets, Pipe, etc. I thought the Ergo Pro would be that, but when switches started double registering after only a few years, I grew cold to it. I have 30+ year old keyboards that are working great, anything modern and hundreds of dollars should do the same.
I’ve always wanted to try a Kinesis, but it would have to be so much better than what I have to justify double the price that I can’t really justify the price. After 20+ years of keyboarding nearly every day and finding boards that don’t give me pain, I have no reason to try at that price.
My first mechanical was a tenkeyless Max Keyboard Nighthawk. It sold me on the TKL size, and backlighting. It also has a USB hub, which is very convenient for mouse dongles and headsets.
For several years I used a Kinesis Advantage at work. I never loved it, but it sold me on having my preferred layout (Dvorak) in hardware, rather than configuring it in the O/S. I also liked having a backspace under my left thumb.
Not long after I got a Kinesis Gaming Freestyle Edge RGB at home. Even better than the Advantage, I could program an arbitrary layout (and lighting) in hardware. And because it's split, I can program the left spacebar for backspace.
When I got tired of the Advantage, I bought a System76 Launch, a compact TKL with a split spacebar. This sold me on hot-swap switches. I generally like light tactile switches like the Cherry MX Brown in the first three keyboards, but it's fun to put clickies on some of the keys, and very light linears on the pinkie modifiers.
I guess the point is that as your list of must-have features grows, the set of candidate keyboards shrinks. There aren't many programmable RGB keyboards with hot-swap switches, a split spacebar, and a USB hub. What are your must-haves?
Since then, I have switched to Mistel split keyboard which have the exact feel as any other qwerty keyboard and I haven't looked back (though I did rebind some of the keys, like the arrows for example, to match the vi movement keys).
I'm interested in keymouse (keymouse.com) but frankly don't feel like dropping a bunch of money on another experimental design. So I've got two Mistels for both my daily drivers and will likely continue with that brand as I've been very happy with the quality.
The Model 100 uses MX-style switches and has some small design improvements here and there. No complaints on my end, but I haven't put it through as much torture as my Model 01.
ETA: Which Mistel did you get? They look interesting.
That said, I eventually ended up getting "The Platform" for tenting my Moonlander. And while the tenting is collapsible, The Platform lifts increases my keyboard height just enough that it now no longer slides under my desk with my keyboard tray.
But I prefer the tenting, so I just live with it. I just unplug my keyboard and set it aside when I need to close my keyboard tray.
I constructed myself a Miryoku inspired layout for my Moonlander. Though getting the timing right for using home-row mods is very tricky, and it is unclear to me if it is worthwhile or not.
The first one died after 26 months. Sounds weirdly specific, why would I remember that? Two-year warranty. The owner of the company was shockingly rude to me, accused me of threatening to trash his reputation if he didn't give me free stuff. I had sent him some links to times I had praised and recommended his product (they're all on here, feel free to Algolia it if you're curious).
Well, Erez Zukerman, you deserve to have your reputation trashed. The product itself is decent. Unless it randomly dies on you right after the warranty expires, in which case, fuck you.
From looking at it, the Glove80 looks to be a near-perfect layout (good thumb cluster, sculpted well, but no palm key). The switches give me some pause, but I haven't ever tried them.
It has truly spoiled me and now typing on a regular keyboard is terrible. My only complaint is that they are so big and chunky that traveling with them isn't all that feasible. So I'm confined to the crappy laptop keyboard when on-the-go.
Beyond that, there is a market for prebuilt Dactyl and similar hand-made boards.
The ErgoDox/Moonlander are in that price range and are highly thought of.
That said, if money were no object I would just get a new one every year. That's how much I loved that keyboard while it was working.
The new rpi module is flawless though, great change.
It's been like 15 years since I operated one yet the sound and weight of that spacebar is still eerily vivid in my mind.
> Yeah, it’s a whole different kind of noise.
Totally, I have a Keychron right now and its sound is comparatively heavily muffled.
If I'm ever to be coerced to RTO my devilish secret plan is to bring a Model M to drive the point home.
Newer versions of the firmware seems to have mostly resolved this. You just need to make sure you turn on the left half slightly before the right half.
But regardless, when a product chases the mac crowd it makes me think it's probably overpriced or sacrificed functionality for the sake of design.
Before I would make mice shiny and keyboards grimy very quickly, but since I started gloving up I've not had a single mice or keyboard die on me.
I’m now a happy user of the kinesis advantage (though the configuration software pales in comparison to the ergodox) and feel so much better.
I modded all of the 2s with the following boards:
* https://github.com/kinx-project/kint - Great board, requires usb of course. Programmable with QMK.
* https://github.com/wizarddata/Blue-Wizard-Mod - Doesn't support QMK but does support ZMK but is bluetooth. Great board.
I picked the kint up on some pcbway type service, the blue wizard I got off ebay.
I think all the ergonomic keyboards assume you use the opposite hand for the shift key.
I've been on advantages for 20+ years at this point and haven't had any of the RSI that prompted the switch since.
Currently daily on a 360pro. Might want to sell it or reswitch it for something a little lighter and maybe even something linear. Maybe a silent red or lf red.
You may need to rig something to keep it upright (or at least finger safe?)