New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)(github.com) |
New car buying guide: the algorithm (2021)(github.com) |
Very genuinely—-I ask because my patience is thin, and I am likely to hurl expletives at the salesperson, especially if I detect tactics such as those described here. If the salesperson is slimy, then my verbal response is likely to be exceptionally offensive, as I’ll calculate for the most severe expression.
A thing that will control your outcome a lot is the dynamic of the car market itself at that moment, and what's going on in the dealership. In my case, we bought our car in 2021 amid the chip shortages/supply chain issues. I called a good number of dealers and got the following response:
One dealer had the car coming in a few weeks and can sell it to me for the MSRP. One dealer said "we charge 1k OVER the MSRP for every car." The rest said "we don't have this car and won't have it anytime soon."
In that environment, knowing the dealer costs and all that other bullshit doesn't matter. You have one guy who knows he's got a car that nobody else has, and if he doesn't sell it to you there's gonna be someone else who wants it that same week. You have zero leverage to drive the price down. We bought it for the MSRP and considered ourselves lucky.
In another environment, getting consistent apples to apples quotes is your key to driving down cost. Basically you are putting dealers in competition. If Bob has more cars than he can sell, his best outcome is to sell to you for MSRP, but his second best outcome is to sell to you at all vs having you buy from someone else. What usually happens in this approach is you understand the range of quotes, pick your lowest quote and then ask the dealer you would rather deal with if they can beat it. "you are my local guy and I liked talking to you, would rather buy from you but you are a lot pricier than someone I can get from two towns away. Can you give me your best quote please?" can do wonders.
The reason you get a range of quotes is that dealers face different environments. Bob may have a lot of car X and not a lot of people asking about it, and John may have sold most of his X and has a lot of interest. This can be for totally arbitrary reasons from what their area is like, to total luck of the draw and in a few weeks Bob and John may have their situations reversed, but at the moment Bob's probably gonna be more open to giving you a deal.
A thing that also works is to make sure they know you're a thoughtful money conscious person who is doing his due diligence will make them give you a better quote. I say straight up "full disclosure, I am speaking to a few other dealerships to get a couple of quotes." That tells you that if they give you a high quote you will simply ignore it. If you seem naive and aren't going to be equipped to shop around, they might give you a higher quote to see what happens.
The article makes a good point that you should negotiate (as always) one thin at a time. So lock in the new car quote separately from financing and trade-ins. Better get one number down and then work on getting the next number up.
Finally and this is key - realize your situation and the leverage you do or don't have. If you don't need a new car right away, and dealers have more cars than they know what to do with, you can really work on this to squeeze out another grand out of the deal. If you are in a situation like I described above where I needed the car and literally nobody had one, don't feel bad paying the MSRP because that was the best price possible under that dynamic
I can also say in general that people undervalue and under-study how to negotiate. Negotiation is often a collaborative thing where both sides win (the dealer wins because I did the deal w them vs their competitor, I win because I paid less) and people often fail to negotiate because they assume negotiation is a confrontation and it scares them. If you are a person that lives in the world where you're not just ordering off a menu, taking a negotiations class or reading a book is a great use of time.
I dont know, i stopped buying new cars once computers were added. I own a 95` landcruiser with 300k on the clock and i beleive it has another 300 which will basically mean it will do me for life. And the advantage of buying and old car, and learning todo the maintence yourself, is that not only do you save money from every angle, your car is on the other side of the bell curve where they start to increase in value again. In the 10yrs ive owned it, my car has increased in value by ~40%. Its made of metal, and is held together with bolts not glue. It will not dry rot away, and rust is easily controlled with modern epoxy paints. It will not go out of fashion given the thirst car collectors of the future will have the past.
My plan is to swap a hydrogen motor in i guess once mature the tech and consequently ban diesel.
This is from someone who in 2005 bought his first ~50k$ car over the internet, one click style, without seeing it in person from a used car guy (it was 2nd hand, 10k on the clock, ~10% of retailm had 2yrs warrenty). Thats really the problem with buying a one-click these days though, the people who buy them are too risk adverse to be without a warrenty or buy second hand. So they crash the value of their own investments because the others know what to expect with seconds on a modern car. The reason people sell cars after 1 or 2 years is many, in my country, leasing cars like this is maximises your dollar vs tax.
Any moden car: ~50k outlay, 10yr useful life
vs
i bought a 2002 rav4 with 400k for ~2k, 5~ yrs ago. Ive spent roughly ~500$ repairing different things on it in that time putting on ~40k because they reused the same parts for this car across many different years and models which means CHEAP CHEAP. It means parts have been copied and mass reproduced on a scale that sees me paying $30 for a waterpump and ~1hr to install DIY on the side of the road not $600 ~ $2k labour for a moden car that requires half the car to be dissaembled to even just see the water pump. And since your modern pump is made of plastic, and all the pipes are plastic, and the pipes are have special numbers of propritiy fittings.... well yes, you see why modern cars suck in terms of investment ratio.
let me show you that math. ~2.5k outlay / 5yrs = ~500$ per year total cost. The car is now worth ~10-12k because people are so sick of modern cars and toyotas keep their value.
2nd hand, high milage, reliable cars (toyota/honda) > anything modern made in the last ~15yrs. The morphing from 1 or 2 modules per car, to 20-100 modules per car with tonnes more emmisions gear IMO is the worse thing to happen to cars since their inception. BUT it has given me a retirement plan ... im thinking about becoming a ECU/electronics repairer once i get sick of tech :D All those modules are pretty much the same, they just allow you todo things via comment instead of lever. Once you learn the basics, its like hacking on VB or JS.
Good luck with that. Hydrogen in cars is dead, and even if it weren't, the tanks would take up so much space in a car not designed for it that you'd lose your boot.
Inspired by you, I've started using a Nokia 3310 instead of those new iPhones that keep getting more expensive and last for two years MAX!
Why?
Yes, that a Texan car dealership buying the AS Roma (soccer team, Italian capital).
When I came in US, I had no car, I saved money, went to dealership (Toyota) and pointed a used Matrix, test drive it, and said, I will buy it. The guy started to show me a long form (like 3 letter pages long form)... I said I do not want to make a loan. He looked at me like I came from another planet. I want to buy the car. He said that he can only accept a bank check. It was close to noon on Saturday, I asked if he could drive me with the Matrix to the nearest bank quickly, he reluctantly said yes. Maybe he thought I was going to scam him or something. He did stay in the car, while I asked for a bank check. He drove me back to the dealership. Unfortunately I had to leave the car, so they do a final inspection and prepare some papers. I came a week later to pick up the car.
Clearly the sales guy seemed a bit puzzled by the transaction. But there was no way I was going to drag a car purchase process like describe in https://github.com/kutinden/buyingacar/blob/main/README.md (13 steps !?)
Now I see the why Tesla sells online. US dealerships have been fat cats for too long.
If you show up with cash to buy a car, you're looked at like you're crazy. They push, and push to get you to take out a loan.
It no longer puts you in a better negotiating position to be a cash buyer, as they're making more money selling you finance than selling the car.
For all of Tesla's failings, car dealerships will die out. Millennials and Gen Z _hate_ being sold to and will do anything they can to remove salespeople from the process; even if it means paying more in the end.
With used car dealers in Germany it's a common thing to pay in cash. At least the down payment is usually in cash. However, having payed for my used car in cash, it still makes me nervous thinking of me taking a bus to the dealership with €11k in my backpack. And prior I had to tell my Bank in advance to order enough cash for me on that day. Even if I had used my debit card, I would have needed to tell my Bank to increase the withdrawing limit.
And I think with latest EU regulations cash transactions are limited to 10k nowadays. So all in all I think it is becoming more and more inconvenient paying in cash these days even in a cash driven country like Germany. Unless either customer to dealership bank transactions become a thing, or checks return in digital form or Bitcoin's taking off I would not even know how to pay for my next car in the future. Perhaps I should get myself a Tesla and a pile of debt after all. ;)
(* https://www.carmoola.co.uk/blog/cooling-off-period-car-finan...)
I wonder how he would have felt if you had to take the car and keep the money for a week before you could pay.
It was a small dealership started by some ex-Microsoft guys and I was working at Microsoft at the time which might have had something to do with it, but it wasn’t like they verified my employment or anything. I assume they felt safe doing that considering the alternative would have been a career ending grand theft auto charge.
1. Test drove four different brands
2. Went to six banks and found out the lowest interest rate I could get. Everyone told me that it would be at a credit union but instead it was a brand new bank that apparently was hungry to get new business
3. Emailed every dealer for the brand I chose within 225 miles.
4. You want to do one thing at a time. I wanted the price out the door. I avoided talk about trade-ins or financing. But I did state I was open to financing the vehicle with them if they were competitive.
5. Be very patient. The vast majority of the dealerships in the first round either never answered the email or quoted me over MSRP. I would engage with everyone who wrote me back. I would reiterate that I was ready to buy a new vehicle to whomever gave me the best deal. As time went on I responded with specific price I was willing to pay. There are forums for most brands where people share the prices that they were paying. So I had a pretty good idea what might get accepted.
6. I was getting ready to start shopping for my second choice. It came down to a single salesman who sent me dozens of emails. All the sales guys want you in the dealership where you're on their turf. This guy kept dropping the price $500 at a time. He asked me what it would take for me to visit the dealership. I quoted him $1000 below his last offer - and he accepted! I made it clear that wasn't a price I would accept, just enough for me to visit him. I wanted $1000 more I when visited the dealership.
7. I got a bunch of prices for my old vehicle online so I had an idea what it would bring. They quoted me on the high end of what I would receive but they wouldn't budge on the new vehicle price. Eventually they agreed to add $500 to the price of the trade-in which I wearily accepted. Only to have them give me $400 of free mats so its obvious that I probably could have gotten them lower. However they had factory financing that was 1.25% lower than the best bank rate I received so I financed the vehicle with them.
Going online is the only way to purchase a vehicle. December I learned later is a really good time to purchase.
Granted, when talking to big company, you can't even negociate.
I'd find myself in a pretty awkward position if my goal in a professional relationship was to make the other side loose.
1. Go to nearest dealer, 2. Sit at nearest salesman’s desk 3. Buy nearest car 4. Go back to designing computers.
Or then you outsource this whole process to someone else and pay them a slight premium, which is what I would do. My time isn't worth an email battle and spreadsheet acrobatics to save $3k.
All they really do is email a bunch of dealers for you but they got me a lower price then actually going in person to a handful of dealerships and getting the "employees discount" offer.
That seems unlikely to me, though this depends on which car company you're buying from.
Take Ford for instance. A significant amount of Ford's business is banking/financing. Much like how the Dealership wants to sell you a car, Ford actively wants to be your financier and they're competing against the banks to get your business.
Furthermore: Ford is known to sweeten the deal and offer financing-credits rather than straight $$$ off of a car. For example, you might find that Ford can offer 5% right now, when typical banks are going to be offering 8%. This is effectively Ford choosing a "shadow-discount" in the form of financing-incentive. They're willing to lose money on the finance but gain a customer. Its a hidden negotiating tactic on top of all the other offers they're doing to you. You might as well give the sales-guy the opportunity to offer you a financing deal.
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But Toyota doesn't have as big of a financing arm, and its more of an (expensive) service to the customer. You'll probably lose money on Toyota financing compared to a regular bank.
I think its a good idea to be pre-approved. This means that you know what the "fair" % interest rate should be right now, and get a good idea of what "shadow deals" various car manufacturers are doing.
I know I've seen 1.9% APY deals in the market today. Financing is seriously just another step in this annoying negotiation process you have to normalize and account for.
1. Looks up nice new car
2. Realize a fancy new car is like $2-3k per MONTH (financing, insurance, etc).
3. Decide that there are about a million better ways to spend 2,000 a month (e.g. a $200 dinner every 3rd day, personal uber chauffeur, house-cleaners, etc)
4. Get used camry.
2. Realize a 25 year old car does all that
3. Just pay the few thousand in cash
I may be weird but I don't get why anyone would make dept just buy a fancy car they can't afford?
A day later I bought a better equipped Hyundai for the same price and a decent trade in. 2 days after that I get a call from the Mazda dealer asking was I still interested and they could work a better deal.
I had great pleasure in telling them I bought the Hyundai, best decision I ever made as it turned out the Mazda model I was interested in had windshield stress design defects causing them to crack and issues with the gearbox.
I still have the Hyundai and it's survived 2 accidents from people driving into me :D
I know nothing about the car business in the states, but it seems to me after reading these comments and the article that the actual business of car dealerships is most probably - selling financing, and the cars are the 'vehicle' for this.
(emphasis mine)
This part is buried in the whole document, but is probably the most important.
If you have some temporal wiggle room, go on the last day of the month. Not the second to last day, the very last day. Possibly after lunch if you can. You are going to get a much better deal.
Also, never buy a car at night.
How is depreciation for cars calculated correctly when the dealers are adding this random markup and/or cross subsidizing finance deals?
I originally started thinking about this due to stories about EV depreciation that make no mention of $8k plus federal/state subsidies that the buyer received.
Is it as simple as some average second hand price vs MRSP?
So in this case, the cost is whatever you pay after credits / markups / etc. MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price) doesn’t really matter - the cost to you is what you paid for it.
And then the value after using the car for sometime is whatever you could sell it for at that time.
So I get EV for $50k after credits.
I drive for 1 year and sell for $40k, then I would have $10k in depreciation.
If your goal is to understand how much of money you are actually spending that’s it.
Sometimes you want to play games for tax / accounting purposes. Then depreciation becomes this funny made up number that is a mix of depreciation rules and what works well for you. Eg most of the cars value is lost in years 1-3 but I might ‘take’ an even amount of depreciation over 5 years.
If your bank offer this service, you still have to figure out which car you want and what the fair price for it is. But those are minor roadbumps compared to haggling at the dealership.
There was no payment for the service or obligation to get the loan through the credit union. I did finance through them anyway since I intended to pay the car off pretty quickly.
TLDR: investigate if your bank offers a car buying service.
The tactic was simple: disarming empathy. It was a method presented by a hostage negotiator via this NPR podcast: https://www.npr.org/transcripts/167802325 Basically you agree with the salesman that whatever price they are offering is actually very fair, and in a normal situation you would accept it... but you apologize profusely saying you just can't spend this much because it is too expensive for you. When he says such and such product quality justifies the price, you wholeheartedly agree with him... but you can't afford this.
So that day I had identified a specific car I wanted, online, at a dealer in my area. I went in to see it in person. I explained I was ready to buy it today, got sat down at a desk with one of their salesmen. And he starts by presenting his price. I explained it's a really good price, but I really can't afford that, and asks if there is anything they can do to reduce it? After a while he says, sure, OK, what about this new number? And basically I keep doing the same thing over and over. I profusely thank him for reducing the price, but explains it's still too much. Over a span of 20 minutes, he cuts the price down 5 or 6 times, up to a point where I finally say we've reached a price that I am able to afford. I don't remember the numbers but I think we had started around $19k and got down to $16k. The salesman is mildly happy, but I distinctively remember him not being that enthusiastic. He said he's going to get the paperwork ready to finalize the sale. He leaves me at his desk while he walks way. And a few minutes later he comes back, with a very sad look on his face, and apologizes while explaining that the owner of the dealership refused to let the sale close at this price. He says there is nothing he can do for me, shakes my hand, and remains awkwardly silent, then apologetically stood up to make me understand it was time to leave. I kept thinking the guy probably had just been yelled at by the owner about he could have screwed up the negotiation so badly.
Then all I do is basically pick the dealer that is able to get me what I want, or as closest to it, at best price.
Sometimes this has meant traveling to a dealership in another state. Sometimes it meant ordering from the factory.
Then again, the cars I’ve always shopped for haven’t exactly been the likes of Camrys or RAV4s, so…
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/costofliving/financing-car-dealersh...
The dealership wants you to finance. It's better for them.
I called a dealership. Asked if they had X car at MSRP. They said yes. I waited for it to arrive. I went there (10 minute drive), paid via check and drove out with it.
The worst part of the experience was the lack of color options.
Dealers love to add expensive addons like GPS trackers, remote starters, or paint protection. It is hard to find a new car that doesn't have that garbage. Especially in a short time frame.
I knew the displayed price was the real price.
Because I ordered it online, I could even return it up to two weeks after the delivery as the local law mandates.
What a nightmare vs a simple fixed price.
I allowed them to offer me financing, but told them "anything higher than 0%, I won't pay" [so I paid cash].
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This car is an absolute sleeper — much quicker (not faster) than my turbocharged Subaru. Just brilliant to drive. I'm pretty sure I got a great deal on this one, and the hybrid system still has a few years of warranty left (unless I hit 100k, first — likely).
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Other tips: go at the end of the month; ask for "out the door" pricing; BE OPENLY WILLING TO WALK AWAY ("I don't give AF about anything" attitude); don't be afraid to negotiate^† — they certainly are.
I love my new (to me) Camry Hybrid. Instantaneous electric torque is incredible, as is regenerative braking.
†: I literally rejected their first number by saying [after a long pause]: "Look: I understand that this is a business and that businesses need to make money; however, I was really hoping the out the door price started with a one... if it can, then I will pay for it right now." And then it did [$19,900]
will never understand why people would buy a new car that depreciates by 30% the very second you drive off the dealership.
Relatedly, it is significantly more convenient to accept dealer financing because you don't have to act as a middleman between the car dealer and your bank.
The point is that dealer financing is usually a rip-off (because it's fundamentally another axis along which dealers try to extract money from you), but it can still occasionally be a good deal.
You're underestimating the power that the car-based financial institutions have.
For example:
> (This doesn't always apply to big institutions like Chase and Ally that have huge, separate direct and indirect auto lending arms that never talk to each other.)
Speaking of Ally bank... have you ever looked at their name before 2008?
GMAC: That's General Motors Acceptance Corporation. You're literally talking about GM's piggybank for financing deals.
Ally bank has changed a lot over the last century. But they still have tight connections with GM.
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It depends, it very, very strongly depends on the dealership, the auto-firm (ex: GM can get a very good deal with Ally bank... and Ford can get a very good deal from *Ford Motor Credit Company*, the in-house bank).
Toyota... not so much. Ford / GM? Yes. It depends.
Last time I bought a car the dealership was offering a loan backed by my credit union with identical terms and rates.
Made my getting pre approval from my credit union a waste of time.
The caveat is that you usually have to have very good credit to get the top tier rates, which might be why the github user wasn't aware of this.
If the loan is below inflation, the loan is actually making you money...as long as inflation stays higher than the loan rate for the length of the loan, that is.
Inflation is at most indirectly relevant here. What's important is the opportunity cost, ie what else you could do with your money.
Of course, you'd hope that there are other investments that can at least beat out inflation. But there might be much, much better investments available. (Or on the contrary, sometimes eg government bonds yield less than inflation. Yet, some people still buy them. Though much of that demand probably comes regulation all but forcing certain parties to invest in government bonds.)
* Toyota's hybrids can achieve close to 40 miles per gallon on an SUV while achieving 200+ horse power and completely eliminates all timing belts and chains. No more digging into the engine bay to replace those. Just fluid replacements and inspections of the electrical connectors.
* Anti lock brakes are way better today then systems from the late 90's. A 1990's car I could brake more effectively then ABS could no problem. Mid 2010's cars and onwards? No contest, ABS just beats me consistently. The controller can release brake pressure from a single wheel loosing traction while the others maintain maximum braking force, something impossible to do with just the brake pedal. It's also what makes modern traction control so good; a 6 year old can correct a minor loss of traction in milliseconds, long before the driver even realizes there's a problem.
* Seatbelt pretensioners are now tied into the car's communication network, meaning in the event of a crash they can take up slack far more quickly and reduce whiplash injury.
* Assuming that the headlamps are properly sealed, LED lights should never need replacing.
* Reversing cameras with guidelines tied to the steering wheel angle is just pure cheating when parking in tight locations with a large car.
* Adaptive headlights
* Having a keyfob is super convenient. Not having to dig your keys out of your pocket to start the car is nice; not essential but I'd rather have it then not, even with the risks involved.
And purchasing a newer car typically means reduced chance of abuse from a previous owner. Is it really that surprising that there's people that don't want to put the kind of effort needed to dig into and repair an older car?
This is weird to read having grown up in a family that has never once bought a car new. My parents don't know a damn thing about cars and it's never been a noticeable issue. Buy the car with 40-60k and drive it to 200k, repeat. They're usually not American cars but there were some Ford trucks in there.
However those things sure sound impressive, but it doesn't sound it's worth a $50k price tag and the most impressive point only applies to one brand. Also reverse cam, magic keys, LED front lights are all cheap upgrades I can easily do myself.
You don't want to mess around with timing lights and carburetor adjustments.
Why would anyone sell a near-new car for 30%+ off *unless* they knew the vehicle is crap?
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Buying lightly used (~3 year or ~5 year) cars is likely the superior strategy. There's a set of rich buyers who want to keep up with the latest trends. This leads them to leasing vehicles for 2, 3, or so years. Other times, they have enough income that they can just buy new entirely but sell within 5 years when nicer technology comes out.
There's likely nothing wrong with a 3-year-old car. Its just that the lease is up so they're moving on.
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In contrast, think of the kind of person who buys new at like $40,000 and then turns around and immediately tries to sell the vehicle 6 months later for $25,000. There's probably something very wrong with that car.
Anyone selling just a few months after buying is someone who actively regrets their decision to buy.
Change of life. New kids, divorce, relocation to a city, got a UTV that needs something to tow it, lost a job and need the cash, died, started carpooling, etc.
If you don’t need a car anymore and are very certain you won’t, there is no point in dragging out the ownership. Taking a big loss immediately is better than waiting 2 years and also paying insurance and registration the entire time.
Many states have lemon laws and actual garbage has to be taken back by the dealers after X number of repairs. The people selling at a steep loss don’t have a lemon in those states.
You’re a lot less likely to get a lemon buying near new than you imply.
This is pretty old advice, inaccurate for any car worth it's salt that you're buying.
Good luck buying a slightly used Toyota for 1/2 cost, it's more like 6% off each year.
Go do a search for 2019 and 2020 Ford F150s or Toyota Tundras. They almost all list at half MSRP.
He’s done this for ~ten years now.
I think I'm just economically rational: the only thing I look is the price, nothing else, in a situation where there's no competition.
So as negotiating is about trading price for something else, well, I don't have much to negotiate...
But the whole issue I have with negotiating is the one of "value". We don't put the same value on objects. For example, for me, the value of a car is the cost that is needed to produce and sell it. The social status thing has zero meaning for that. So I'd be glad to say to the salesperosn "hey, drop that social status option and let me pay a bit less" :-)
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?max_auto_year=2020&m...
Not seeing any $17k Tundras. ($33k msrp)
We have: $39k, $40k, $39k, $42k, $38k, $39k, $45k…
I don't doubt at all that there's good used cars out there. But for a lot of folks, it's worth the extra money for the peace of mind comes with a new off showroom floor new car with a completely known history with a manufacturer backed warranty that includes roadside assistance.
Usually dealerships insist on a bank transfer. Although, pro tip, if you can agree to paying a deposit with a credit card then the entire car purchase should be covered under Section 75 protection if the car is not sold as advertised.
Hey, if he doesn't hate it, and gets a good deal then good for him. I just can't believe that his feeling is commonplace.
Yes British but love going to car dealerships and haggling. I miss the old days as buying cars is now straightforward over the internet.
This. The point is, once you are old enough and have heared enough success-stories of extroverts going full "Grand Bazaar"-Style... you are just frustrated if you know that you are going to loose against all these dark-patterns. There´s a reason why they can buy italian soccer-teams without really "producing" anything.
I´ll gladly throw my money on anyone who is going to take these dealerships out of the algorithm. I know that just someone else will get rich... but hey, Tesla might at least use this money e.g. for product-development etc..
There's something deeply human in the whole 'awkward dance'. Not everyone is born a great dancer, but this doesn't mean that dancing is a stupid and pointless activity.
People have been trading with one another (and often tricking or getting tricked in the process) for millennia. The 'Grand Bazaar' you evoke stands for something timeless — a promise of wealth earned with wit. In a twisted way, our American love for capitalism and these sleazy dealerships are chasing the same ancient dream.
May as well be a part of it.
Edit: Cars need service and maintenance. Dealerships can, and in Europe do with the exception of used car dealerships, provide these services as well. And that is something Tesla is really bad at.
Most Tesla service horror stories I've heard about involve major accidents requiring repairs with long waits/high prices for parts, but you get a loaner to tide you over and any decent insurance handles the bill.
They are using manipulative techniques to extract as much profit from dealing with me as possible.
I understand that it's their job. But as a consumer, I _hate_ it and therefore would consider spending more money to avoid the uncomfortable feeling dealing with a car dealership gives me.
That's the value for me and I'm certainly not alone in that.
I talk about Germany specifically so.
Once, I bought a car new. Will never do it again, used (somehwere between one and four years) is the way to go.
On a side-note, do you have any company or website you would recommend for ex-lease vehicles buying in Germany? Or do you simply go to your local car dealers and ask for their second-hand offerings?
Jaguar Land Rover is pretty decent, they offer two year warranty. Prices are OK, if you have time to shop around or wait, since the value loss is, for whatever reason, higher than comparative German Premium brands. Service costs are reasonable as well (compared to Ford, Peugeot and free garages). You basically get a lot of car for your buck, plus you don't see those a dozen time between ypurbplace and the supermarket every day.
One heads-up so: Jaguar Land Rover dealerships are independent (some kind of frnachise system would be my guess), so experience can, and does, vary a lot between dealerships.
Another source would be exihibition cars and those registered for a single day (done to drive numbers, so propably not a thing at the moment, I haven't checked in a while).
Asking for a leasing return cars at ypur local brand dealership for sure is an option as well.
So you know over the 3 years of leasing, there were ~6 maintenance visits, and without manual transmission there's no worries that someone else burned out the clutch.
I've never leased before, and IIRC leasing agreements differ from dealership to dealership. But the overall expectation is "free maintenance", but "required maintenance". You have to come in if you want to keep the lease in good standing, otherwise you have to pay a penalty later.
And if memory serves well, the Tesla practice of providong loaner vehicles spread to almost every other garage and brand, already 30 years ago.
I live in a world where I do not have to trick or be tricked by other people. I surround myself with people whom I can actually trust to have my interests at heart, and I try to look out for their interests as well. This is not just the case for my friends, but has been in my communities, across multiple countries. I can happily go to the market and buy whatever at a listed price, confident that the market stall owner is pricing it at enough to make a comfortable living and no more. I can be confident that if my purchase is flawed, I can say, and be trusted with a refund easily.
This, to me, is a deeply human system. The idea that deceit and cheating are features of life just doesn't bear out for me. There are people that do that, and when I encounter them, I do whatever I can to make sure I never encounter them again. Unfortunately, the consolidation of large businesses makes it more and more common. I avoid those where I can also.
For most people, buying a car is a chore. I'm not here to be negotiated with. Give me the price of something that means you make your profit; if it seems like a good deal, I'll buy it.
They're providing me with, in my eyes, a premium product. "Come buy a car without the dance. Here's the price. Give us money, I'll give you a car. No strings."
I'll pay extra for that. I'll never win against an experienced salesperson, so why bother even trying?
When you buy a used car, even one that's less than a year old, you have no way of knowing if there's something wrong with it. So buyers offer lower prices. Then a seller who has a car that they know is good says "I'm not selling it for such a low price, I know it's worth more." So the only people who sell used cars are the ones where something is wrong with them. A kind of race to the bottom.
Which is not always available, nor reliable.
Nobody would underwrite loans for new cars with low down payment and low interest if this had been true. Also we would see the year old cars with low mileage selling with >30% discount, which is also not the case.
The reason I buy new cars is customization: I get exactly the car I want with colors/materials/options I selected.
Transferability of warranties ?
The idea that a warranty can be transferred seems like an urban legend.