Ask HN: In the 90s, did programmers job-hop frequently? I've only been out of college for a few years, but my engineering friends who stay at a company for at least 4 years seem more the exception than norm. Was it like this in the pre-Linkedin-recruiter-spam and pre-Glassdoor-interview-question days? |
Edit: reasons for leaving are; 1) want a bigger company for security (which is not really a thing here as you get paid even if the company goes bankrupt or you are fired; also I have funds for 10+ years for every person we hire; it’s not possible for us to go bankrupt as I am risk averse these days) 2) wanting to do resume driven dev; in that case indeed I wish them luck but good riddance; those are the most worthless to me; wish I could detect that behaviour earlier, but for obvious reasons, they try to hide that
As an employer we expect folk to hop[1] a bit in their 20s. If that extends into their 30s or beyond that's a red flag. It suggests either the candidate will leave us soon (if they are instigating the hops) or that they're a bad employee (if the keep getting fired.) Neither is a good look.
Equally hopping as you get older gets harder. A 55 year old who hasn't held a job for more than 5 years is not terribly appealing to me.
On the up side, the serial hopper who is 32, just got married, has a kid on the way, and brings a bunch of skills is probably worth a punt.
[1] I'd define a "hop" as a function of age. Anything less than 2 years is a red flag. For older folk a regular pattern of < 5 years is a flag.
Plus no matter how old you are working for startups means frequent employment changes. Don't be ageist.
Yeah, that line of thinking can be bogus. I ended up staying at a startup for quite a while, and occasionally had to defend myself for not bailing out even after a couple years. Saying, "Stock options" and winking usually quieted down the critics. There are reasons (even beyond stock options, LOL) for staying at a job for more than just a little while.
BTW a lot of what others have said here (pay raises came from getting new jobs, employers saw long stints at a company as a potential warning sign that you aren't really very good) does ring true.
Improving earnings via job-hopping is nothing new, the difference may be in the other reasons people hop.
I loved contract work and probably could’ve done it forever but marriage/kids changed what I look for in a job.
I think 3 years is plenty of time to hone your skills, grow in an organization, and get exposure to multiple different projects or teams. After that, I don't think anyone would begrudge you for leaving for a better opportunity, now or in the 90s.
Do what works for you.
Eight years later and I've developed a deep skepticism about private industry and how companies are run, and know I'm working for an employer that's conducive to my mental health. Eventually you gain the recognition of how important that is, and how easily it can be lost once you have it.
Even now, I rarely stay at a given job for more than 5 years or so. But that's mostly because I get bored and want to do something new -- and because my skills get stale and I want to use new ones.
I heard that back in the days, if you knew coding you were hired. Today you have to know 10000 things.
Anything related to the web was not even consider "coding". HTML monkeys got paid nothing. The idea a HTML monkey was doing engineering was a laughable idea. There were no python jobs when python was brand new.
Sure, a good C or Perl programmer had no trouble getting a job in 1994. There were so many less jobs though overall.
Then in 2000 the entire industry goes on life support for 2-3 years.
The good times are now.
I did a whole lot of projects on my own time to keep up to date with interesting new tech and make some side money. Nothing really blew up though.
Some of my adjunct professors in the Rochester area would tell me about this.
Things started to change after the dotcom crash and the acceleration of new technology taking out larger legacy firms.
So this worked for me so far. I guess it depends on who you are and the level of shit shoveling you can handle. I noticed that this level is surprisingly high for some people.
These days people hop from job to job for more TC. For me it was about interesting projects (not always profitable).
I will say this, we had way less information back then. People still job-hopped, but there was no levels.fyi tempting you with grand fortunes. For me at least, it was friends or friends of friends and word of mouth. "Hey, there's this new company VMWare, it's only 20 or so people, but they are doing this cool stuff, you should look into it."
Typically if you were outside of the bay area, job hopping wasn't as frequent because most cities didn't have a LOT of companies to chose from. I was in San Diego at the turn of 2000 and there was military contractors, semiconductors, and telecom. If you made to the top and worked for Qualcomm, you usually stayed there. At the time, in that particular region, no one paid a whole lot more and everyone got their own office at QC. They started stock-splitting every quarter and no one was going anywhere, no matter how much they were over worked.
I would say the temptation for me personally to job hop now is less than before because there is just so much more information about companies, and at the end of the day, most companies who pay well suck pretty bad, and amazing companies don't pay all that well. :)
That's different to a 55 year old, looking for a permanent position, with a history of job hopping. And to be clear i's not the age that worries me, it's the hopping. I believe a 30-somthing who's looking to "settle down a bit more" - I don't believe a 55 yo with that story.
I follow the idea that when people show you who they are, believe them. As an _employer_ I'm just not excited by people who are around for a couple years, then move on. Assuming there's competition for the post, I'd likely lean towards the one with the better track record (all other things being equal.)
I've gotten feedback you stayed too long and you didn't stay long enough from different employers during the same job cycle. Every employer expects different things.
Curious what do you consider an acceptance length at 55? 3 years, 5 years, 10 years+ vs a 32 year old?
When hiring we're looking for someone who'll fit, someone who will add to the whole. Hiring people is expensive, each new person is a lot of time invested. We want to feel like you'll want to stay for a while.
Getting that feeling is hard, and of course there are no guarantees in life, but we don't treat people as fungible. You are you, and we can't just go down to the supermarket and replace you.
History is no predictor of the future, but it can be a signal.