HiddenVM – Use any desktop OS without leaving a trace

HiddenVM – Use any desktop OS without leaving a trace(github.com)

170 points by paravirtualized 2 years ago | 39 comments

ghostly_s 2 years ago |

I’m not following what this gives you that Veracrypt's inbuilt hidden+decoy OS feature doesn't already? It seems they require you to manually set up a veracrypt hidden partition for anything to be "hidden" anyway. How is booting your encrypted partition in a VM within Tails more secure than booting it directly?

paravirtualized 2 years ago | |

> How is booting your encrypted partition in a VM within Tails more secure than booting it directly?

There will be no proof of an operating system existing at all, just random data. If you use VeraCrypt along with a hidden partition normally, you would still have the VeraCrypt bootloader or an apparent Windows installation on the drive.

_boffin_ 2 years ago | | |

After truecrypt 7.1a (I think), the canary vanished. After that, didn’t it become veracrypt? Did they ever add a canary or has there been research in showing it’s not backdoored?

NKosmatos 2 years ago |

Nice one. I’ve been using Veracrypt for many years now, after the whole Truecrypt fiasco. Just one friendly advice… always have a decoy partition or decoy OS, otherwise it seems very suspicious to have a disk filled with random data ;-)

0cf8612b2e1e 2 years ago | |

I am less convinced. If the GMan nabs you, sees you are using a tool which heavily advertises a hidden partition, and coincidentally your drive has a large unused block of random data - they are unlikely to be fooled.

JohnFen 2 years ago | | |

If your security concerns are about governmental intrusions, then you have a security need that no single tool can resolve anyway. You need to address overall behavior and habits, which are likely to include things like not keeping sensitive data on machines that can be easily accessed regardless of the use of encryption or obfuscation.

AdmiralAsshat 2 years ago | |

> otherwise it seems very suspicious to have a disk filled with random data ;-)

You could always argue that the drive was previously "securely erased" and filled w/ random data and/or that it was "securely encrypted" with a key that was then destroyed?

GTP 2 years ago | | |

There was an interesting talk at one edition of CCC that boiled down to saying those techniques work only if you have the right to remain silent. Which depends on the country you're in. And I heard that in the USA, even though you have the right to remain silent, they still have the right to put you in jail if you refuse to give out your key.

exe34 2 years ago | | |

They could still try rubber-hose interrogation techniques until you remember the key...

AzzyHN 2 years ago | |

Does full disk encryption not look like random data?

mlry 2 years ago | | |

Basically yes. But as I understand it this is the reason why some border guard might ask you to boot up your machine to show him your system as a used and "lived in" installation. You might want to avoid arousing suspicion by lugging around a piece of dead metal (a laptop with unusable bit noise on its discs) or by presenting a fresh and empty OS.

tgkudelski 2 years ago |

You might also want to have a look at https://shufflecake.net/

The current state is far from usable, but the final goal would be to have multiple nested "hidden OSes" that can be booted and managed concurrently, depending on the provided password.

ThinkBeat 2 years ago |

You can get microsd cards and even nanosd card that are so small that hiding somewhere on your person is easy.

Encrypt everything you need on it.

They are, should it be required, easy to quickly and discreetly swallow as a last resort. (To get rid of it. I have no idea what would happen to a nano sd card travelling through your body, but I presume that it, or at least the ability to read the data on it, would be destroyed.

Then carry a regular laptop with you, with all the regular applications and regular behavior of them. Boring.

Using tails as the main operating system on a computer you fear might be inspected by customs or secret agents is screaming:

"I have something to hide and you cant find it"

pvg 2 years ago |

A big Show HN thread from four years ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22492343

BobbyTables2 2 years ago |

Why is there so much “branding” to Tails?

I feel like all of tails could simply be a short bash script that uses “debootstrap” to stage a Debian installation and then make it into a squashfs image that is mounted with overlayFS and a tmpfs (which is like a 3-line addition to the main “init” script).

(And yes, I’ve done this before. It’s not hard)

Instead they have a very fancy website and provide binary images without really showing how it works…

Not trying to belittle what they did, I’m sure that took a lot of work.

Just don’t understand the current fads… I feel like they’re trying a little too hard to sell a free product…

tredre3 2 years ago | |

Tails provides a live ISO that guarantees that everything you do goes through Tor. It seems like a useful thing to have preconfigured. Privacy shouldn't require extensive Linux experience. And even then, I've been using Linux for decades and, whilst I could probably figure it out, I wouldn't trust myself that my setup isn't leaking packets.

Besides, all distributions do some branding (some to the point of obnoxiousness).

HiddenVM, on the other hand, I don't really understand. They make you go through tons of manual steps to achieve the aforementioned hiddenness... Might as well DIY. And their README reads like a VC pitch. "HiddenVM is an innovation in computing privacy." really? You're taking tails and telling the user to install virtualbox, veracrypt, and do the setup...

ranger_danger 2 years ago |

> complicated apt-get update wizardry that achieves our VirtualBox-installing breakthrough.

yikes.

p0w3n3d 2 years ago |

  A CRYPTO NERD'S IMAGINATION:

  HIS LAPTOP'S ENCRYPTED.
  LET'S BUILD A MILLION-DOLLAR CLUSTER TO CRACK IT.

  NO GOOD! IT'S 4096-BIT RSA!

  BLAST! OUR EVIL PLAN IS FOILED!"

----

  WHAT WOULD ACTUALLY HAPPEN:

  HIS LAPTOP'S ENCRYPTED.
  DRUG HIM AND HIT HIM WITH THIS $5 WRENCH UNTIL HE TELLS US THE PASSWORD.

Note1: xkcd/538

Note2: I'm missing images on hacker news. I understand why they are absent here though

ninju 2 years ago | |

Full link for that like to click :-)

https://xkcd.com/538/

Klasiaster 2 years ago |

"The laptop probably has a HiddenVM. Drug and hit the person with this 5$ wrench until we get access."

https://xkcd.com/538/

paravirtualized 2 years ago |

Unfortunately, it looks like this version is no longer maintained.

"HiddenVM is a futuristic tool powered by KVM designed to combine the powerful amnesic nature of Tails and the impenetrable design of Whonix with the unbreakable strength of Veracrypt."

abathur 2 years ago | |

Can you elaborate on why to see it, also, since they look like forks of the same project?

paravirtualized 2 years ago | | |

I think that the focus of combining it with Whonix is interesting and is what piqued my interest originally. Other than that, nothing.

gloosx 2 years ago |

this is quite secure but not against thermorectal cryptoanalysis though

bnpxft 2 years ago |