Things I said as a manager part 2: Hiring is emotional(reactiverobot.com) |
Things I said as a manager part 2: Hiring is emotional(reactiverobot.com) |
In my current job, I manage offshore teams. I have hired a lot in the past couple years because we have grown a lot and turnover tends to be high for entry level positions.
I don’t find hiring particularly emotional. You are basically looking for a skillset and a mindset compatible with the work environment. I agree that you are indeed trying to build a relationship but that’s a professional one. The essence of it is evaluating the candidate ability to do the job. There is no tension here. You are not looking for a friend.
I mean if you find it hard to politely tell someone you are not going to offer them a position when you don’t believe them to be a good fit, you are probably doing something wrong.
This is not the same thing. At all.
Of course you're not particularly emotional; these are low-stakes hires that aren't even in the same country. The process is likely a fraction of the time for a fraction of the money.
Maybe it's gotten better in recent time, but you also get mediocre results with hiring fast and cheap + offshoring.
> Turnover tends to be high
:facepalm:
Managing multiple teams mean I also hire their managers and the people here in charge of the whole things. I don’t feel more emotional then than then. Hiring is a skill conducted in a professional environment with all that implies. That was the main point of my comment (I’m highlighting because you obviously missed it).
Why be so uncharitable in your reading? It doesn’t make you look smart.
Yikes.
And after that, this is a fully general critique. Hiring well means that there's a bar hires have to meet somewhere. You can argue that their bar is too high, but there's an identical story with a lower bar. It's disappointing to see someone interview and just barely not make the cut because we're human and can empathize. That doesn't make it the wrong decision.
What sort of barrel are you scraping that you can spend that long on a hire?
The people I've had to hire were on the market for two weeks every five years if I was lucky.
This is in itself a huge red flag about not just Figma's hiring process, but its entire decision culture internally.
There's absolutely no reason for a "process" to drag on this long, unless it's for a C-level position with a corresponding equity stake.
The high of finding the right person makes it all worth it.
Not if the best people stop applying or referring their friends to you, once word gets out as to what's in store for them.
"Hiring" isn't the emotional thing here. The emotional thing was knowing you were shitty to someone. You were shitty because you took months to build a relationship with this person and didn't have a compelling reason to say yes or no, and decided to say no. If you saw gaps, you should have said no sooner. If it takes you months of talking to someone and building a relationship to decide they're not right for the team, it's not hiring that's the problem, it's that you're bad at hiring that's the problem.
There's exactly no reason to lead a candidate on for months. If you ever get to the point where scheduling a 1:1 zoom conversation is implied to be a job offer, you've fucked up. Interviewing isn't personal, it's business—until you've spent long hours making it personal.
> Hiring is a roller coaster. It involves more ups and downs than normal engineering work.
It might be a roller coaster, but the longest roller coaster by duration in the world is four minutes. Keep that in mind.
I obviously can't go into the details of the feedback but I share your wish that hiring decisions would more cut and dry! It would be a lot easier for everyone.
Thanks for the feedback!
I would be really interested to hear more about the specific "gaps".
> After lots of discussion with my management chain, we decided not to extend the offer.
I wonder exactly what was said, given that this candidate was led on for months by this point and I presume the management knew about everything along the way. Also, was someone else hired, or did they just cancel the entire opening?
I understand some emotional pain about passing up a really nice candidate for an objectively unbeatable one (that's competition for you), but I only get the sense that it was a single person in the interview loop (who was then cancelled on): they were apparently hiring for just one extra manager position?
It was right then I realized we’d made a terrible mistake. I feigned gastric distress and headed for the restroom where I immediately called HR.
Months wasted but I feel we dodged a bullet on this one. Now it’s back to the drawing board but I’m sure we will eventually find a qualified junior web developer.
Thanks for the note!
> It was hard because I wasn’t confident in the decision. They were close and had potential, but we also saw some gaps. After lots of discussion with my management chain, ...
WAY too long a time period, and WAY too much time invested. And hopefully you'll never, never, ever need this candidate's good word or goodwill for anything - 'cause you'll have precious little chance of getting either.
The candidate and I first met long before they were interested in interviewing. They had potential and I got to know them so that when they were interested in interviewing they'd reach out. Once they decided to interview, we made that happen as quickly as schedules allowed!
Hope that clarification helps! Thanks for the note!
Can you share a little more about what made the decision emotional or impulsive? I'd love to make sure my writing is clear and it sounds like it wasn't. While building a relationship with a candidate can be emotional, we always use a standardized rubric to evaluate candidates. Even with a rubric the decisions can be hard!
Thanks for the note!
Months of interaction? Why did just a few years ago, managers could spot a phony a mile away and could see potential in people? Why is it I feel like I'm dating you just to try and get a job?
This story just confirms how broken and dysfunctional the process has become to make a simple hire.
One of my starting points for companies looking to grow from small founding team to a more larger structure is to define the hiring and firing process way up front. It is not worth playing around with people's emotion and putting everyone in a difficult position.
This piece is a bit over the top, though, verging on "seek counseling immediately" emotional. I hope you're not a bull, author, because I don't want to make you even more emotional when I tell you this is full of red flags.
Hiring should not be a months long emotional roller coaster like you describe. It should be quick and professional.
As a hiring manager you do cold out reach and meet people well before they are ready to look for a new job. You build a relationship over time so that when they are ready for a new job they reach out to you. That's what happened in this case.
I appreciate the feedback that I was not clear about that. I agree with you all that spending months actually interviewing is horrendous and unfair.
Let me know if you have more questions or thoughts!
For players between contracts, the off-season will usually be several months, and many players won't sign until just before the season begins, negotiating with teams along the way.
> I had been talking to the candidate for months..
and how appalling that is. But TFA says nothing about why the process took months, because that's not what the article is about. Maybe the author had been talking to the candidate for some time before the hiring process started? Maybe the process took unusually long for reasons on the candidate's side? We have no idea, so why even take issue with it?
TFA gives no details either way - hence, the thing you're calling insane is something you've imagined, not something described in TFA. That's my point.
If the intent is to give a verbal explanation, I’d send an email with the news and then offer to connect on Zoom for that.
(But I’d also avoid a process anywhere close to this long.)
How much less can you value an applicant's time? You already are a 'no' so set them free to spend time on finding a job elsewhere. Sure, if you want to offer a call to go over the details some people will take you up on it, but recognize this call is for the hiring manager to feel less bad about saying no, or so people won't badmouth the company for jilting them during hiring.
Either way, it is self-serving and the opposite thing any company should do if they want to treat applicants with actual respect.
Let’s admit businesses are picky in people they don’t know. If it’s some friend or twitter/ceo persona, he gets hired with 0 interviews. I have seen this so many times with heads, vps and c-suite hired out of the blue. While i have to struggle to get my feet into any position and bypass the ai filtering of ats.
[1] Penpot is a great open-source alternative for people who value freedom.
I know it's practically a meme in tech at this point how bad hiring is, but I honestly think we have too many people in the hiring chain who have no proper experience with evaluating people. This leads to this mentality of infantilism and perfection that will constantly lead to unhappiness from both sides of the decision. Can we somehow take cues from the past and improve hiring process efficiency while recognizing that hiring will always carry inherent risks for both parties?
My first hiring in a corporate world so I had to learn a bit.
Then we are expected to plan for diversity, not even looking at qualified candidates until we have met diversity benchmarks.
Then my group had a committee kind of setup where one person could veto a candidate. Being my first hiring, I had to go along with it for a while. At one point, we had a viable candidate, but there was one person who was sideways and my manager did not want to go ahead unless every single panelist said yes. We held on for another month trying to look for other better candidates. The candidate was nice enough to wait. BTW we had a viable candidate even before that, within the first 2-3 I think, and that candidate did not wait for us.
Then getting the offer approved and negotiated and signed takes time.
It has been a pain, and after hiring quite a few people in startups or consulting companies, I could have done it in less than a month, but we had our inertia.
> where a misstep could have irreversible damage.
However, when I see it help is that we have a person in our peer team who is not good and they are trying to let that person go. It is in Europe so laws a bit more stringent. It is quite a work to let someone go so the fear of a bad hire and then having months of work to let that person go is quite real. And this is for a run of the mill IC.
And/Or it feels like going through a hazing ritual.
This is my criteria:
1-Smart, problem solver, sees the big picture, etc.
2-Collaborative, flexible, not dogmatic
3-Responsible, takes ownership
4-Technical experience is in the ballpark, gaps ok and expected
The first 3 things are much more important than the tech because tech gaps can be filled, personality can't be changed.
Fortunately, that didn't happen in this case. Part of building a team is getting to know talented people before they're looking for a job so when they're ready they reach out to you.
And you're right, this is work, not dating. But that doesn't remove the human emotion involved in getting to know someone.
And there were no diversity quotas, just that management will keep asking are you being diverse and my manager will throw a fit every time his managers will ask this question since our org was pretty much uniracial, but it was not me who built it :)