I've read some timed ago that drowning in swimmingpools was the leading cause of deaths for kids. So maybe the mandatory protections (fences) there did help. So more schoolbuses could help with their pickup line crisis.

In Germany in our schools such pickup lines are explicitly forbidden. Kids must go by themselves (bus or bike). Helicopter parenting is frawned upon, and recent right-wing rumors in Berlin amongst silly parents about organized Rumanian abduction trucks are actively fought. Dangerous fakenews on social media, probably Russian.

The best part is, you won't have to subject your children to marxists and people that look like literal clowns that fell face-first into a tackle box.

Though you are correct a bus is slow, done right they are faster than walking.

Unfortunately we moved during high school and lived something like 15 miles from the new school; at least there was a bus.

The idea of common spaces in American cities largely died during & after Covid. Anything you did in public (gyms, eating out, public transport, apartment common areas) was suddenly prey to whatever idea a politician had that morning. I think we all remember walking into a restaurant with a mask on, to promptly take it off as soon as you sat down. At the same time as these guidelines were being piled on, basically all laws below murder stopped being enforced. So you had to negotiate a bus full of drug addicts shooting up and riding for free, or leave the sidewalk because it had been taken over by a tent city.

Personal transport is required in America, the places with the infrastructure to avoid it dont have the capacity to govern (any big city). The places with the governing capacity (suburban, rural areas) dont have the infrastructure.

Once Dad bought a new car and surprised us by not picking us up in the one we recognized?!

Around 5th grade I had some sort of trauma-drama on the soccer field, needed to call in Mom for a pickup. I didn’t know what a busy-tone sounded like despite figuring out the payphone on campus. I held the receiver to my ear for 10 minutes anxiously hoping Mom would answer.

I believe the rare school bus rides were field trips, and once my friend and I were in the rear, frantically waving and smiling at every other motorist to see how they’d respond, and we failed to cause any accidents

I feel it was a curse on Mom to put so many miles on Soccer Mom Car. Parents couldn’t hardly wait for our maturity and licensing!

If you let your kid out roaming, walking home from school, and the child causes a minor issue, you get the wrath of "Why aren't you watching your kid?"???

So we've developed this culture around ensuring that the child is accounted for at all hours of the day. Drop off, pickup from school, included.

> Note: I used AI to create this image rather than pull one from another site without permission.

I don't have kids, and while I've seen pickup lines from time to time, I have very little first-hand experience with them. So my brain reacts to the image:

- Is this image a realistic representation?

- If it is, I have no first-hand knowledge to verify it

- If it's not, I have no way to know without going and looking for images myself

- If it is, it's undermining the content by representing something real with something fake

Artwork/illustrations/visualizations are often critical when communicating via text. But I think that when someone is writing about a factual matter - a real phenomenon that is occurring regularly - using fake imagery is just the wrong choice.

I went to school in a semi-rural school district, one of the largest in the state by area. I just checked Google Maps and the high school is 13 miles away, 16 minutes by car (much of it highway), and maybe a half hour by school bus if I remember correctly. It could be a bit tedious, but it wasn't a terrible commute by any means.

> Parents are not simply choosing to drive their children to school because it’s fun to sit in a long line. It is becoming more of a necessity because schools are more spread out than before, or at least families are living further from their schools.

Necessity? I don't see what's wrong with school buses. They're just about the only practical form of mass transit in rural areas. They work for all ages, in any weather where the school is open at all.

It's also a way for a parent to think somehow they are doing the right thing and get a little enjoyment in their head (despite the time involved or wasted) 'I am a good parent'. Doesn't involve as much effort as other things a parent does (or should do) it's simple (other than the time).

[0] Our current bike route from home to school isn't optimal -- too many busy streets where drivers routinely run reds. That's a rant for another day...

It is, but like the pickup line, it’s also a national embarrassment. Half the buses in my town are ancient and belch black smoke like a semi rolling coal.

I was never enrolled in any as a kid and never really expected for my kid to be, because I thought parents were the motivating factor for kids to get into a bunch of activities, but IME they aren't. My kid loves her activities and picking her up to shuttle her directly to it is a lot quicker than using a bus or walking.

(TLDR: It's Prop 13's fault)

https://www.kqed.org/news/11980715/why-dont-more-bay-area-ki...

>California has fewer school buses than in other parts of the country. A survey conducted by the Federal Highway Administration found that nationally, almost 40% of school-aged kids ride a school bus. In California, that number is only 8%.

>Like so many questions related to school funding and services, the answer to Winters’ question has roots in the passage of Proposition 13

How children lost the right to roam in four generations

The most rambunctious, violent, harrowing and underpoliced part of the day

Not offering a solution, just an observation

I don't want to blame it on diversity but the example provided in the article is a homogenous-culture society with high trust.

Because we typically don't let kids drive. If they're able to walk to school then they can walk themselves to and from school without the help of an adult (even one driving the bus), once they are responsible enough to.

There is always the possibility for anything, so that cannot be the bar.

It's a lot safer than the 1970s in most places.

Edit: Occasional parts of the show are the camera people trying to avoid the kid who has turned and is walking right toward them.

i agree a little bit. But at what point does the “growing up” part happen? you know…when they turn 18, and have to get a real job (or go to university), doing things that are uncomfortable and maybe not fun?

The process of growing up and becoming more mature is accomplished by challenging yourself and pushing boundaries, to grow as a person.

i guess im saying, it depends. its not as black and white as you suggest. Is the fear irrational? Maybe therapy would help. Or a buddy to walk home with. But you need to _somehow_ help kids grow independent.

The end goal is to create a happy, fully functioning adult.

I got this kind of reaction from my son for all kinds of things I made him do by himself that made him uncomfortable. Now that he's 18, he thanks me for it and wonders why all his friends are so entirely unable to do almost anything out in public without help.

The parents that arrive early but have kids that are not ready to be picked up is precisely why the queues get out of control. At least with this method the cars are moved along much faster. If a car arrives in the queue but the kiddo is not yet found, when the car reaches the front it is asked to move to a holding spot out of the queue--much like fast food places do when your order is going to hold up everyone else in line.

This sums up all of the school pickup problems I see and/or deal with daily.

I also see many parents making dangerous decisions, most of which fit into the “I’ll go now” category, including accelerating quickly to get to the crosswalk before the kids crossing the street do. Just this school year, I’ve seen multiple near misses, with kids jumping back onto the sidewalk to avoid being hit by a parent who just picked up their own kid.

Just like all security theater, it's easy enough to get around. All you need is the same looking card and the identifier. Most of the time, that's just the kid's name on the card. Some color code the card by class grade as well.

I know this as I was helping a friend scoop their kiddos up from school, and they just sent me to the school with the card. Nobody questioned who I was. They just saw the card, radioed the name, and the kiddos were waiting at the curb when I eventually crawled up to the spot. Since the kiddos expected me, there was no "who is that guy" situation. Otherwise, just fake a card and get a prize is how lame this setup is

What I'm not fine with is there is no bus service for the 4 year old, we have to drive her (I bike, but it isn't a great route - we have to cross a busy 4 lane)

Because the article is comparing the past with the present, I am curious what parents were doing in the 90s in your area? And, what are parents doing nowadays?

I'm assuming, either car or bus. And I can't imagine that would have changed since the 90s unless there used to be a school much closer.

That is why an SUV is chosen over a minivan.

When I were a lad I used to walk sixteen miles just for a kick up the arse and then have to walk home again to work under t’spinning machine at t’mill for the other 14 hours of the day.

It's actually impressive that you can entertain yourself at 3-4 years old.

My perception of time at that age would have been such that I'd probably be very fearful of being abandoned if left alone for more than 2-3 hours.

But kudos to him.

Parents: It's never ok to block somebody's driveway! Residents: It's not illegal for people to park on the street in front of your house (assuming they aren't blocking your access of course)

Many should be able to walk almost as fast as loading up the car, waiting in the queue, etc.

And yet, even for students who live within 0.25 mile of school, a minority walk.

Especially noted:

> Overall, rural counties had the highest rate of gun deaths.

I'd almost bet nobody sued them. (I'll extend: I'd be surprised if a parent has ever won such a case.) An idiot parent made a stink at a PTA meeting and nobody could be bothered going head to head with Karen.

You keep accusing other people of living in a bubble, but you're indexing your entire experience on to anecdotes of where you grew up as an individual experience.

I would argue the primary cause is an attempt at "school optimization"; the choice to attend the "better" school over the closer school. Also, standardization of schools has decreased with the great variety of charter, private and magnet schools now, increasing the reasons to skip the local school. Personally, I think standardization is best. You could make the same argument about how people choose colleges.

It's also fashionable for parents to choose a school across town for arbitrary reasons in order to signal that they care more about their children (in my opinion). We have tried advocating for the local options and the positives it has had for getting to know others in the community but most don't even consider.

I'm lucky to live in an older neighborhood with an elementary school, middle school, grocery store, and a few other shops. There are also safe ways for kids to cross from adjacent neighborhoods so there is still a lot of autonomy for the kids getting to and from school.

The article does have a chart that shows distance from their school. I'm curious if there are closer schools that parents chose not to let their child attend. I have known a couple people that drive miles away to drop their kid off to private schools when they have a public school a mile away.

Where I grew up, you had multiple smaller elementary and middle schools eventually feeding into a larger high school.

I only got dropped off if it was raining (that can be quite severe and thunderstorms are common) or if I was so late that I couldn't make it. In the latter case, I walked home.

Four years later, my school was miles away. No choice but dropoff lines (private school, no bus service). Had I been in the public school system, I would have needed to bus or be dropped off for junior high (that year and two after it, ~4 mi/6.5 km away traveling on and crossing multiple arterial roads without bike lanes or sidewalks for most of the way), but could have walked/ridden/driven myself to high school.

It's close enough for a 5-year-old to cycle, which is my point.

The article is literally about how location effects are driving the changes.

> Pick one. If you knew the statistics on kidnapping in the US, you would not think of this as a “life-style” choice.

Child abduction is extremely rare in the United States.

You might be confusing sensational headlines with statistics. It's common to report missing children or parental disputes as kidnapping, which people conflate with children being abducted off the street

Here's an article about it with some real statistics from the FBI: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wisconsin-missinggirl-dat...

For some perspective: The number of children abducted by strangers in the United States every year is similar to the number of children who die from head injuries from riding a bike: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8909479/

More people in the United States die from lightning strikes every year.

Building primarily low-density car-dependent suburbs is a choice. Building horribly oversized car infrastructure is a choice. Not building bike or pedestrian infrastructure is a choice. Building one megaschool instead of a handful of smaller local schools is a choice.

People voted to have slightly lower taxes and spend a few hours a week waiting in the pickup line. That's a lifestyle choice, even if they weren't aware they were making it.

It all seems overdone and ridiculous, but when you get a phone call from your child as they sprint from the school building to the safety of the woods due to shots fired in the building, you're glad they did prepare for the "when to stay" and "when to run" decision...and then after you realize that it's even more ridiculous that they had to use that training.

That was the longest couple hours of my life, but knowing that the kids got the f** outta there made it a bit more bearable.

If something happens and you didn't do everything people imagine could have prevented it, you'll be fired, you'll be sued, and your name will be dragged through the mud.

If you take a bunch of unreasonable precautions and nothing happens, you're fine.

Child abduction by strangers is extremely rare: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-wisconsin-missinggirl-dat...

Push this out thirty years. One set of kids was navigating the real world since they were 4. The other has been mollycoddled with overparenting and screen time. Which cohort do you think will be happier, better adjusted and better off?

Then realise that it's not uncommon to see grade schoolers taking the subway to and from school in New York.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLgBne2KTlDUyxLPg3oalg...

What exactly is your problem here though? The fact that kids are kept in a staging area so they are not congregating in the same space that kids that are actively being placed into cars? That's an issue? You'd rather have that area congested with kids not paying attention doing kid things with their friends after school?

The US is a massive country with a huge number of different climates and layouts, which is partly what makes articles and conversations like this so painful to read. Instead of the skeptical, critical thinking you'd expect from HN you get mess of "Car bad" "I wish we had European public transit" and broad generalization talk.

The worst part is that someone would thing this is the appropriate thing to do rather than observe the kids and in any case approach them and ask if they’re OK. The US has grown a culture of “don’t get involved” cowards hidden behind the legal system.

This is one of those things laws are great at. Delete the power of idiot Karens and the culture will return to normal.

It works for Utah (and to a point, Texas); it can work for your polity, too.

When children are at far greater risk of abuse and abduction by concern trolls and the State, and they very much are in New World countries, your society is broken.

As a mandatory reporter if I don't report such a thing I can be put in prison. Many activities now make all adults mandatory reporters (only mandatory reporters are allowed to go camping with scouts). I'm specifically told not to think, if there is any possibility I must report it and let the experts figure out if there is a problem or not.

This of course means the experts have to spend a lot of time/effort investigating where it is obvious there is nothing but they have to get enough evidence of that to close the case. This time is taken away from all the kids that really need help. Note that I have no idea how many kids who need help are discovered this way.

Change requires someone that doesn’t accept the status quo

(I don’t have kids, but hope to have some in the future, so this is me talking out of turn)

Free range laws say the opposite: that a kid over a certain age is allowed to be alone and the parents CANNOT be charged for it. It’s to encourage free range parenting.

It's quite literally the same thing as a cop checking up on someone for a reported domestic disturbance.

It's not as instant jail sentence or separation of parents from their kids.

Like I said, those are literally tools of last resort. Things have to be really bad. Like, for example, a kid that shows up with bruises and stories of violence from the parents won't instantly be removed. That's how far CPS bends over to avoid family separation. The research is pretty clear that family separation is about the worst thing you can do to a kid. That's why instead CPS generally will deploy things like mandatory therapy (if that). Or life skills lessons. And that's assuming they see major problems at the initial interview. If it's a false claim the actual most likely thing that will happen is they'll show up and say "looks like a false claim" and leave, probably ignoring future reports.

It's actually wild to me how anti-cps people are.

> Many activities now make all adults mandatory reporters

I was specifically commenting that an activity doesn't make someone a mandatory reporter. That is you are a mandatory reporter based on your occupation, status, and what is happening. The OPs comment makes it sound like "if you're camping overnight with children, you become a mandatory reporter"

versus, for example, "The BSA's policy is to only allow people who are already designated mandatory reporters to chaperone camping overnight with scouts". The BSA cannot ... mandate ... that you are a mandatory reporter (in the legal sense, with protections and responsibilities accompanying) just by virtue of you saying "I'll chaperone this event" (though they can certainly say "it is our policy that you act as-if").

We know the concern is insincere because the OP’s example (children playing in their yard) cannot be considered concerning by a reasonable person.