Jemalloc Postmortem(jasone.github.io) |
Jemalloc Postmortem(jasone.github.io) |
"The jemalloc memory allocator was first conceived in early 2004, and has been in public use for about 20 years now. Thanks to the nature of open source software licensing, jemalloc will remain publicly available indefinitely. But active upstream development has come to an end. This post briefly describes jemalloc’s development phases, each with some success/failure highlights, followed by some retrospective commentary."
Surely a "retrospective" would be a better word for a look back. It even means "look back.
I’ve been meaning to ask Qi if he’d be open to cutting a final 6.0 release on the repo before re-archiving.
At the same time it’d be nice to modernize the default settings for the final release. Disabling the (somewhat confusingly backwardly-named) “cache oblivious” setting by default so that the 16 KiB size-class isn’t bloated to 20 KiB would be a major improvement. This isn’t to disparage your (i.e. Jason’s) original choice here; IIRC when I last talked to Qi and David about this they made the point that at the time you chose this default, typical TLB associativity was much lower than it is now. On a similar note, increasing the default “page size” from 4 KiB to something larger (probably 16 KiB), which would correspondingly increase the large size-class cutoff (i.e. the point at which the allocator switches from placing multiple allocations onto a slab, to backing individual allocations with their own extent directly) from 16 KiB up to 64 KiB would be pretty impactful. One of the last things I looked at before leaving Meta was making this change internally for major services, as it was worth a several percent CPU improvement (at the cost of a minor increase in RAM usage due to increased fragmentation). There’s a few other things I’d tweak (e.g. switching the default setting of metadata_thp from “disabled” to “auto”, changing the extent-sizing for slabs from using the nearest exact multiple of the page size that fits the size-class to instead allowing ~1% guaranteed wasted space in exchange for reducing fragmentation), but the aforementioned settings are the biggest ones.
A fellow traveler, ahoy!
i think, because Itanic broke a ton of assumptions
What's hard about using TCMalloc if you're not using bazel? (Not asking to imply that it's not, but because I'm genuinely curious.)
1. Use it as a dynamically linked library. This is not great because you’re taking at a minimum the performance hit of going through the PLT for every call. The forfeited performance is even larger if you compare against statically linking with LTO (i.e. so that you can inline calls to malloc, get the benefit of FDO , etc.). Not to mention all the deployment headaches associated with shared libraries.
2. Painfully manually create a static library. I’ve done this, it’s awful; especially if you want to go the extra mile to capture as much performance as possible and at least get partial LTO (i.e. of TCMalloc independent of your application code, compiling all of TCMalloc’s compilation units together to create a single object file).
When I was at Meta I imported TCMalloc to benchmark against (to highlight areas where we could do better in Jemalloc) by pain-stakingly hand-translating its bazel BUILD files to buck2 because there was legitimately no better option.
As a consequence of being so hard to use outside of Google, TCMalloc has many more unexpected (sometimes problematic) behaviors than Jemalloc when used as a general purpose allocator in other environments (e.g. it basically assumes that you are using a certain set of Linux configuration options [1] and behaves rather poorly if you’re not)
[1] https://google.github.io/tcmalloc/tuning.html#system-level-o...
For the non low-level programmers in the bowels of memory allocators among us, why is this a "lol"?
Why not? I mean this is complete drive-by comment, so please correct me, but there was a fully staffed team at Meta that maintained it, but was not in the best place to manage the issues?
custom-malloc-newbie question: Why is the choice of build system (generator) significant when evaluating the usability of a library?
I've done both before, and seen libraries at various levels of complexity; there is definitely a point where you just want to give up and not use the thing when it's very complex.
One fine day, we discovered Jemalloc and put it in our service, which was causing a lot of memory fragmentation. We did not think that those 2 lines of changes in Dockerfile were going to fix all of our woes, but we were pleasantly surprised. Every single issue went away.
Today, our multi-million dollar revenue company is using your memory allocator on every single service and on every single Dockerfile.
Thank you! From the bottom of our hearts!
the top 3 from https://github.com/topics/resize-images (as of 2025-06-13)
imaginary: https://github.com/h2non/imaginary/blob/1d4e251cfcd58ea66f83...
imgproxy: https://web.archive.org/web/20210412004544/https://docs.imgp... (linked from a discussion in the imaginary repo)
imagor: https://github.com/cshum/imagor/blob/f6673fa6656ee8ef17728f2...
FWIW while it was a factor it was just one of a number: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/36963#issuecomment-...
And jemalloc was only removed two years after that issue was opened: https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/pull/55238
I wonder if some kind of dynamic page-size (with dynamic ftrace-style binary patching for performance?) would have been that much slower.
I learned of it from it's integration in FreeBSD and never looked back.
jemalloc has help entertained a lot of people :)
windows def allocator is pos. Jemalloc rules
Wow, still? I remember allocator benchmarks from 10-15 years ago where there were some notable differences between allocators... and then Windows with like 20% the performance of everything else!
Which one of them? These days it could mean HeapAlloc, or it could mean malloc from uCRT.
Or I wonder if they could simply use tcmalloc or another allocator these days?
Facebook infrastructure engineering reduced investment in core technology, instead emphasizing return on investment.
> Or I wonder if they could simply use tcmalloc or another allocator these days?
Jemalloc is very deeply integrated there, so this is a lot harder than it sounds. From the telemetry being plumbed through in Strobelight, to applications using every highly Jemalloc-specific extension under the sun (e.g. manually created arenas with custom extent hooks), to the convergent evolution of applications being written in ways such that they perform optimally with respect to Jemalloc’s exact behavior.
> as a result of recent changes within Meta we no longer have anyone shepherding long-term jemalloc development with an eye toward general utility
> we reached a sad end for jemalloc in the hands of Facebook/Meta
> Meta’s needs stopped aligning well with those of external uses some time ago, and they are better off doing their own thing.
Though this was not the post I was expecting to show up today, it was super awesome for me to get to have played my tiny part in this big journey. Thanks for everything @je (and qi + david -- and all the contributors before and after my time!).
> And people find themselves in impossible situations where the main choices are 1) make poor decisions under extreme pressure, 2) comply under extreme pressure, or 3) get routed around.
It doesn't sound like a work place :-(
- fsociety
So the flow is like this: user has an allocation looking issue. Picks up $allocator. If they have an $allocator type problem then they keep using it, otherwise they use something else.
There are tons of users if these allocators but many rarely engage with the developers. Many wouldn’t even notice improvements or regressions on upgrades because after the initial choice they stop looking.
I’m not sure how to fix that, but this is not healthy for such projects.
In fact, Jason himself (the author of jemalloc and TFA) posted an article on glibc malloc fragmentation 15 years ago: https://web.archive.org/web/20160417080412/http://www.canonw...
And it's an issue to this day: https://blog.arkey.fr/drafts/2021/01/22/native-memory-fragme...
How would the allocator know that some block is unused, short of `free` being called? Does glibc not return all memory after a `free`? Do other allocators do something clever to automatically release things? Is there just a lot of bookkeeping overhead that some allocators are better at handling?
jemalloc is always the first thing I installed whenever I had to provision bare servers.
If jemalloc is somehow the default allocator in Linux, I think it will not have a hard time retaining contributors.
I'm not really sure what I expected, but somehow I expect a memory allocator to be ... smaller, simpler perhaps?
However it is typically always more complex to make production quality software, especially in a performance sensitive domain.
I think we lost a great deal of potential when ORCA was too tied to Pony and not extracted to a framework, tool, and/or library useful outside of it such as integrated or working with LLVM.
You can write a naive mark-and-sweep in an afternoon. You can write a reference counter in even less time. And for some runtimes this is fine.
But writing a generational, concurrent, moving GC takes a lot of time. But if you can achieve it, you can get amazing performance gains. Just look at recent versions of Java.
I wonder if you did get everything you should from the companies that use it. I mean sometimes I feel that big tech firms only use free software, never giving anything to it, so I hope you were the exception here.
He and the other previous contributors are free to find new employers to continue such an arrangement, if any are willing to make that investment. Alternatively they could cobble together funding from a variety of smaller vendors. I think the author is happy to move on to other projects, after spending a long time in this problem space.
I don’t think that “don’t let one megacorp hire a team of contributors for your FOSS project” is the lesson here. I’d say it’s a lesson in working upstream - the contributions made during their Facebook / Meta investment are available for the community to build upon. They could’ve just as easily been made in a closed source fork inside Facebook, without violating the terms of the license.
Also Mozilla were unable to switch from their fork to the upstream version, and didn’t easily benefit from the Facebook / Meta investment as a result.
Good times.
libvips is fairly highly threaded and does a lot of alloc/free, so it's challenging for most heap implementations.
I will say, the Facebook people were very excited to share jemalloc with us when they acquired my employer, but we were using FreeBSD so we already had it and thought it was normal. :)
A while back, I had a conversation with an engineer who maintained an OS allocator, and their claim was that custom allocators tend to make one process's memory allocation faster at the expense of the rest of the system. System allocators are less able to make allocation fair holistically, because one process isn't following the same patterns as the rest.
Which is why you see it recommended so frequently with services, where there is generally one process that you want to get preferential treatment over everything else.
It would be interested in hearing their thoughts directly, I'm also not an allocator engineer and someone who maintains an OS allocator probably knows wayyy more about this stuff than me. I'm sure there's some missing nuance or context or which would've made it make sense.
There's also the fact that ... a lot of processes only ever have a single thread, or at most have a few background threads that do very little of interest. So all these "multi-threading-first allocators" aren't actually buying anything of value, and they do have a lot of overhead.
Semi-related: one thing that most people never think about: it is exactly the same amount of work for the kernel to zero a page of memory (in preparation for a future mmap) as for a userland process to zero it out (for its own internal reuse)
Possibly more work since the kernel can't use SIMD
As much as it's nice to think software can be done, I think something so closely tied to the kernel and hardware and the application layer, which all change constantly, never can be.
Even from a quick look at the open issues, I can see https://github.com/jemalloc/jemalloc/issues/2838, and https://github.com/jemalloc/jemalloc/issues/2815 as two examples, but there's a fair number of issues still open against the repository.
So that'll leave projects like redis & valkey with some decisions to make.
1) Keep jemalloc and accept things like memory leak bugs
2) Fork and maintain their own version of jemalloc.
3) Spend time replacing it entirely.
4) Hope someone else picks it up?
Lol absolutely not
Programs can opt in to the _segment_ heap in their manifest, but it’s not necessarily any faster.
https://github.com/lovell/sharp/issues/955#issuecomment-5458...
(that specific graph is for switching from glib to the musl memory allocator, but jemalloc gives a very similar result)
HP was going through some turbulent waters in those days.
In my experience it delays it way too much, causing memory overuse and OOMs.
I have a Python program that allocates 100 GB for some work, free()s it, and then calls a subprocess that takes 100 GB as well. Because the memory use is serial, it should fit in 128 GB just fine. But it gets OOM-killed, because glibc does not turn the free() into an munmap() before the subprocess is launched, so it needs 200 GB total, with 100 GB sitting around pointlessly unused in the Python process.
This means if you use glibc, you have no idea how much memory your system will use and whether they will OOM-crash, even if your applications are carefully designed to avoid it.
Similar experience: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24242571
I commented there 4 years ago the glibc settings MALLOC_MMAP_THRESHOLD_ and MALLOC_TRIM_THRESHOLD_ should fix that, but I was wrong: MALLOC_TRIM_THRESHOLD_ is apparently bugged and has no effect in some situations.
A bug I think might be involved: "free() doesn't honor M_TRIM_THRESHOLD" https://sourceware.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14827
Open since 13 years ago. This stuff doesn't seem to get fixed.
The fix in general is to use jemalloc with
MALLOC_CONF="retain:false,muzzy_decay_ms:0,dirty_decay_ms:0"
So in jemalloc, the settings to control this behaviour seem to actually work, in contrast to glibc malloc.
(I'm happy to be proven wrong here, but so far no combination of settings seem to actually make glibc return memory as written in their docs.)
From this perspective, it is frightening to see the jemalloc repo being archived, because that was my way to make sure stuff doesn't OOM in production all the time.
And before that, open office plans.
You're saving on rent: great. But what is it doing to productivity?
* https://business.adobe.com/blog/perspectives/what-science-sa...
Of course productivity doesn't show up on a spreadsheet, but rent does, so it's what about "the numbers" say.
1. `malloc()` is usually called with sizes smaller than the sizes by which the allocator requests memory from the OS, which are at least page-sized (4096 bytes on x86/x86-64) and often much larger. After a `free()`, the freed memory can't be returned to the OS because it's only a small chunk in a larger OS allocation. Only after all memory within a page has been `free()`d, the allocator may, but doesn't have to, return that page back to the OS.
2. After a `free()`, the allocator wants to hang on to that memory area because the next `malloc()` is sure to follow soon.
This is a very simplified overview, and different allocators have different strategies for gathering new `malloc()`s in various areas and for returning areas back to the OS (or not).
First, some background: no allocator will return memory back to the kernel for every `free`. That's for performance and memory consumption reasons: the smallest unit of memory you can request from and return to the kernel is a page (typically 4kiB or 16kiB), and requesting and returning memory (typically called "mapping" and "unmapping" memory in the UNIX world) has some performance overhead.
So if you allocate space for one 32-byte object for example, your `malloc` implementation won't map a whole new 4k or 16k page to store 32 bytes. The allocator probably has some pages from earlier allocations, and it will make space for your 32-byte allocation in pages it has already mapped. Or it can't fit your allocation, so it will map more pages, and then set aside 32 bytes for your allocation.
This all means that when you call `free()` on a pointer, the allocator can't just unmap a page immediately, because there may be other allocations on the same page which haven't been freed yet. Only when all of the allocations which happen to be on a specific page are freed, can the page be unmapped. In a worst-case situation, you could in theory allocate and free memory in such a way that you end up with 100 1-byte allocations allocated across 100 pages, none of which can be unmapped; you'd be using 400kiB or 1600kiB of memory to store 100 bytes. (But that's not necessarily a huge problem, because it just means that future allocations would probably end up in the existing pages and not increase your memory consumption.)
Now, the glibc-specific quirk: glibc will only ever unmap the last page, from what I understand. So you can allocate megabytes upon megabytes of data, which causes glibc to map a bunch of pages, then free() every allocation except for the last one, and you'd end up still consuming many megabytes of memory. Glibc won't unmap those megabytes of unused pages until you free the allocation that sits in the last page that glibc mapped.
This typically isn't a huge deal; yes, you're keeping more memory mapped than you strictly need, but if the application needs more memory in the future, it'll just re-use the free space in all the pages it has already mapped. So it's not like those pages are "leaked", they're just kept around for future use.
It can sometimes be a real problem though. For example, a program could do a bunch of memory-intensive computation on launch requiring gigabytes of memory at once, then all that computation culminates in one relatively small allocated object, then the program calls free() on all the allocations it did as part of that computation. The application could potentially keep around gigabytes worth of pages which serve no purpose but can't be unmapped due to that last small allocation.
If any of this is wrong, I would love to be corrected. This is my current impression of the issue but I'm not an authoritative source.
The kernel does have techniques to try to free up that memory anyway (compressing them) but critically it’s not as effective as just letting the kernel know those pages are unused.
That. Then there's Facebook's build system, a few Python and JavaScript build systems, and pretty soon I have installed and have to deal with a half-dozen things that slightly improve upon Make. It's a maintenance burden if I ever have to touch any of these build systems.
SGI's decision to built out Itanium systems may have helped precipitate their own downfall. That was sad.
Nowadays because of the efforts that have gone in to making SIMD effective, I'd think modern compilers would have an easier time taking advantage of that unique and strange uarch.
When a syscall is made, the kernel has to backup the user mode state of the thread, so it can restore it later.
If any kernel code could use SIMD registers, you'll have to backup and restore that too, and those registers get big. You could easily be looking at adding a 1kb copy to every syscall, and most of the time it wouldn't be needed.
If no syscalls use SIMD today, I’d think we’re starting from a safe position.
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/next/core-api/floating-point...
... its license is BSD-2-Clause ;)
hence "political"
The problem is exactly this: Facebook becomes the upstream of a key part of your system.
And Facebook can just walk away from the project. Like it did just now.
If it were included it would instantly become a LGPL hard-fork because of any subsequently added line of code, if not by "virality" of the glibc license, at least because any glibc author code addition would be LGPL, per GNU project policy/ideology.
Also also this would he a hard bar to pass: https://sourceware.org/glibc/wiki/CopyrightFSForDisclaim
As I recall this is what prevented Apple from contributing C blocks† back to upstream GCC.
Now if they had been designed as GPU like devices for processing data, then Fortune 1000 would have never needed or used Hadoop.
They were mostly optimised on Facebook/Google server-side systems, which were likely one application per VM, no? (Unlike desktop usage where users want several applications to run cooperatively). Firefox is a different case but apparently mainline jemalloc never matched Firefox jemalloc, and even then it's entirely plausible that Firefox benefitted from a "selfish" allocator.
The whole advantage of being the platform's system allocator is that you can have a tighter relationship between the library function and the kernel implementation.
Llvm is OK for them from this point of view: upstream is open but they can maintain and distribute their proprietary fork.
Specifically regarding the C blocks feature introduced in Snow Leopard, as I recall, Apple wrote implementations for both clang and gcc, attempted to upstream the gcc patchset, said gcc patchset was obviously under a GPL license, but the GCC team threw a fit because it wanted the code copyright to be attributed to the FSF, and that ended up as a stalemate.
If there was any hatred they could literally have skipped the whole gcc implementation + patchset upstreaming attempt altogether. Also they did have patchsets of various sizes on other projects, whose code ends up obviously being GPL as well.
The "hatred" came later with the GPLv3 family and the patent clause, which is a legal landmine, the FSF stating that signing apps is incompatible with the GPLv3, and getting hung up on copyright transfer.
From https://lwn.net/Articles/405417/
> Apple's motives may not be pure, but it has published the code under the license required and it's the FSF's own copyright assignment policies that block the inclusion. The code is available and licensed appropriately for the version of GCC that Apple adopted. It might be nice if Apple took the further step of assigning copyright to the FSF, but the GPLv3 was not part of the bargain that Apple agreed to when it first started contributing to GCC.
The intent behind such copyright transfer is generally so that the recipient of the transfer can relicense without having to ask all contributors. Essentially as a contributor agreeing to a transfer means ceding up control on the license that you initially contributed under.
Read another way:
- the FSF says "this code is GPLv2"
- someone contributes under that GPLv2 promise, cedes copyright to the FSF because it's "the process"
- the FSF says "this code is now GPLv3 exclusively"
- that someone says "but that was not the deal!"
- the FSF says "I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further."
I contribute and transfer copyright to them for my contributions for this sole reason.
Apple is not about freedoms at all.
That's OK. I mean, these are the meanings of what both orgs do. Understanding the system, I'd rather spend my free time on fsf cause (and make money in a commercial organisation).
License switches do happen though, and are the source of outrage. Cue redis.
The cause of transferring copyright is often practical (hard to track down + reach out to + gather answers from all authors-slash-contributors which hampers some critical decisions down the road); for the FSF it's ideological (GCC source code must remain under sole FSF control).
The consequence of the transfer though is not well understood by authors forfeiting their copyright: they essentially agree to work for free for whatever the codebase ends up being licensed to in the future, including possibly becoming entirely closed source.
Think of it next time you sign a CLA!
As I observed when I was at Google: tcmalloc wasn't a dedicated team but a project driven by server performance optimization engineers aiming to improve performance of important internal servers. Extracting it to github.com/google/tcmalloc was complex due to intricate dependencies (https://abseil.io/blog/20200212-tcmalloc ). As internal performance priorities demanded more focus, less time was available for maintaining the CMake build system. Maintaining the repo could at best be described as a community contribution activity.
> Meta’s needs stopped aligning well with those of external uses some time ago, and they are better off doing their own thing.
I think Google's diverged from the external uses even long ago:) (For a long time google3 and gperftools's tcmalloc implementations were so different.)
And if you try to build their libraries from source, that involves downloading tens of gigabytes of sysroots and toolchains and vendored dependencies.
Oh and you probably don't want multiple versions of a library in your binary, so be prepared to use Google's (probably outdated) version of whatever libraries they vendor.
And they make no effort what so ever to distinguish between public header files and their source code, so if you wanna package up their libraries, be prepared to make scripts to extract the headers you need (including headers from vendored dependencies), you can't just copy all of some 'include/' folder.
And their public headers tend to do idiotic stuff like `#include "base/pc.h"`, where that `"base/pc.h"` path is not relative to the file doing the include. So you're gonna have to pollute the include namespace. Make sure not to step on their toes! There's a lot of them.
I have had the misfortune of working with Abseill, their WebRTC library, their gRPC library and their protobuf library, and it's all terrible. For personal projects where I don't have a very, very good reason to use Google code, I try to avoid it like the plague. For professional projects where I've had to use libwebrtc, the only reasonable approach is to silo off libwebrtc into its own binary which only deals with WebRTC, typically with a line-delimited JSON protocol on stdin/stdout. For things like protobuf/gRPC where that hasn't been possible, you just have to live with the suffering.
..This comment should probably have been a blog post.
And I build all Rust crates (including rustc) with -O3, same as C/C++.
> Oh and you probably don't want multiple versions of a library in your binary, so be prepared to use Google's (probably outdated) version of whatever libraries they vendor.
This is the only complaint I can relate to. Sometimes they lag on rolling dependencies forward. Not so infrequently there are minor (or not so minor) issues when I try to do so myself and I don't want to waste time patching my dependencies up so I get stuck for a while until they get around to it. That said, usually rolling forward works without issue.
> if you try to build their libraries from source, that involves downloading tens of gigabytes of sysroots and toolchains and vendored dependencies.
Out of curiosity which project did you run into this with? That said, isn't the only alternative for them moving to something like nix? Otherwise how do you tightly specify the build environment?
> Out of curiosity which project did you run into this with?
Their WebRTC library for the most part, but also the gRPC C++ library. Unlike WebRTC, grpc++ is in most package managers so the need to build it myself is less, but WebRTC is a behemoth and not in any package manager.
> That said, isn't the only alternative for them moving to something like nix? Otherwise how do you tightly specify the build environment?
I don't expect my libraries to tightly specify the build environment. I expect my libraries to conform to my software's build environment, to use versions of other libraries that I provide to it, etc etc. I don't mind that Google builds their application software the way they do, Google Chrome should tightly constrain its build environment if Google wants; but their libraries should fit in to my environment.
I'm wondering, what is your relationship with Google software that you build from source? Are you building their libraries to integrate with your own applications, or do you just build Google's applications from source and use them as-is?
If you are building a single google project they are easy to get up and running. If you are building your own project on top of theirs things get difficult. those library issues will get you.
I don't know about OP, but we have our own in house package manager. If Conan was ready a couple years sooner we would have used that instead.
The counter example is the language Go. The team running Go has put considerable care and attention into making this project welcoming for developers to contribute, while still adhering to Google code contribution requirements. Building for source is straightforward and iirc it’s one of the easier cross compilers to setup.
Install docs: https://go.dev/doc/install/source#bootstrapFromBinaryRelease
Or rather it was the last time I tried.
Upside is (I guess) if I ever want to use grpc in another project the work's already done and it'll just be a matter of copy/paste.
They did, in a different way. The world is used to distinguish by convention, putting them in different directory hierarchy (src/, include/). google3 depends on the build system to do so, "which header file is public" is documented in BUILD files. You are then required to use their build system to grasp the difference :(
> And their public headers tend to do idiotic stuff like `#include "base/pc.h"`, where that `"base/pc.h"` path is not relative to the file doing the include.
I have to disagree on this one. Relying on relative include paths suck. Just having one `-I/project/root` is the way to go.
Oh to be clear, I'm not saying that they should've used relative includes. I'm complaining that they don't put their includes in their own namespace. If public headers were in a folder called `include/webrtc` as is the typical convention, and they all contained `#include <webrtc/base/pc.h>` or `#include "webrtc/base/pc.h"` I would've had no problem. But as it is, WebRTC's headers are in include paths which it's really difficult to avoid colliding with. You'll cause collisions if your project has a source directory called `api`, or `pc`, or `net`, or `media`, or a whole host of other common names.
> I have to disagree on this one.
The double-quotes literally mean "this dependency is relative to the current file". If you want to depend on a -I, then signal that by using angle brackets.
Thanks again. This is far outside my regular work, but it fascinates me.
(I managed to avoid infecting my project with boringSSL)
Returning pages allows them to be used for disk cache. They can be zeroed in the background by the kernel which may save time when they're needed again, or zeroing can be avoided if the kernel uses them as the destination of a full page DMA write.
Also, returning no longer used pages helps get closer to a useful memory used measurement. Measuring memory usage is pretty difficult of course, but making the numbers a little more accurate helps.
For most applications, especially request/response type apps like web servers, "right sizing" truly correctly while accounting for spikes takes a lot of engineering effort to fully account for how much allocation a single request will need, then ensuring the maximum concurrent requests never go beyond that so you never risk OOMs.
I can see this being fine-tuned for extremely high-scale, core services like load balancers, SDNs, file systems etc., where you probably want to allocate all your data structures at startup time and never actually allocate anything after that, and you probably have whole teams of engineers devoted to just single services. But not most apps?
Surely it's better for containers to share system memory, and rely on limits and resource-driven autoscaling to make the system resilient?
Also the kernel itself has memory needs for lots of things and it not having memory or having to go on a hunt to find contiguous pages is not good. Additionally in a VM or container environment there’s other containers and VMs running on that machine so the memory will also eventually get percolated up to the hyper visor to rebalance. None of this happens if the user space allocator hangs on to memory needlessly in a greedy fashion and indeed such an application would be more subject to the OOM killer.
Now I'm curious why grpc, webrtc and some other Chromium repos were set up like this. Google projects which started in google3 and later exported as an open source project don't have this defect, for example tensorflow, abseil etc. They all had a top-level directory containing all their codes so it becomes `#include "tensorflow/...`.
Feels like a weird collision of coding style and starting a project outside of their monorepo
Giving memory back to the operating system is antithetical to the nature of caching allocators ("caching" is right there in the name of "tcmalloc"). The whole point of a caching allocator is that if you needed the memory once, you'll probably need it again, and most likely right now. At most what these allocators will do unless you configure them differently is to release memory to the system very, very slowly, and only if an entirely empty huge page — a contiguous area of several megabytes — surfaces. You can read how grudgingly the tcmalloc authors allow releasing at [2]. jemalloc was once pretty aggressive about releasing to the OS, but these days it is not. I think this reflects its evolution to suit Meta internal workloads, and increased understanding of the costs of releasing memory from a huge-page-aware allocator.
1: https://dl.acm.org/doi/pdf/10.1145/3342195.3387524 2: https://github.com/google/tcmalloc/blob/master/docs/tuning.m...
I would be surprised if I read some project's code where angle brackets are used to include headers from within the same project. I'm not surprised when quotes are used to include code from within the project but relative to the project's root.
So the only reason to use "" instead of <> is when you need that behaviour, because the dependency is relative to the current file.
If you use "" in any other situation, then you are introducing a potential error, because now someone can change the meaning of your code simply by creating a file with a name and location that happens to match your dependency.
(Yes, some compilers have -isystem and -iquote which modify that behaviour, but those options are not standard, and can't be relied upon. I'd strongly advise against their use.)
The reverse should be much easier, which was the point of the post. Pointing it out as a capability (translation of build systems) that is handled well, is, well, informative. The future isn’t evenly distributed and people aren’t always aware of capabilities, even on HN
Well, I remember one - very biased - example where I had a look at a class that was especially expensive to compile, like 40 seconds (on a Ryzen 7950X) and maybe 2 GB of RAM. It had under 200 LOC and didn't seem to do anything that's typically expensive to compile... except for the stuff it included. Which also didn't seem to do anything fancy. But transitive includes can snowball if you don't add any "compile firewalls".
That's another matter - just because forward-declares are allowed, doesn't mean they are mandated, but in my experience the reviewers were paying attention to that pretty well.
Counter-exeamples to "~all includes": https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:thi..., https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:thi..., https://source.chromium.org/chromium/chromium/src/+/main:thi....
I picked couple random headers from the directory where I've contributed the most to blink, and from what I'm seeing, most of the classes that could be forward-declared, were. I have not looked at .cc files given that those tend to need to see the declaration (except when it's unused, but then why have a forward-decl at all?) or the compiler would complain about access into incomplete type.
> Well, I remember one - very biased - example where I had a look at a class that was especially expensive to compile, like 40 seconds (on a Ryzen 7950X) and maybe 2 GB of RAM. It had under 200 LOC and didn't seem to do anything that's typically expensive to compile... except for the stuff it included.
Maybe the stuff was actually being compiled because of some member in a class (so it was actually expensive to compile). Or maybe you stumbled upon a place where folks weren't paying attention. Hard to say without a concrete example. The "compile firewall" was added pretty recently I think, but I don't know if it's going to block anything from landing.
Edit: formatting (switched bulleted list into comma-separated because clearly I don't know how to format it).
And the include graph analysis: https://commondatastorage.googleapis.com/chromium-browser-cl...
The annotated red dots correspond to the last time Chrome developers did a big push to prune the include graph to optimize build time. It was effective, but there was push back. C++ developers just want magic, they don't want to think about dependency management, and it's hard to blame them. But, at the end of the day, builds scale with sources times dependencies, and if you aren't disciplined, you can expect superlinear build times.
110 CPU hours for a build. (Fortunately, it seems to be a little over half that for my CPU. "Cloud CPUs" are kinda slow.)
I picked the 5001st largest file with includes. It's zoom_view_controller.cc, 140 lines in the .cc file, size with includes: 19.5 MB.
Initially I picked the 5000th largest file with includes, but for devtools_target_ui.cc, I see a bit more legitimacy for having lots of includes. It has 384 "own" lines in he .cc file and, of course, also about 19.5 MB size with includes.
A C++20 source file including some standard library headers easily bloats to a little under 1 MB IIRC, and that's already kind of unreasonable. 20x of that is very unreasonable.
I don't think that I need to tell anyone on the Chrome team how to improve performance in software: you measure and then you grab the dumb low-hanging fruit first. From these results, it doesn't seem like anyone is working with the actual goal to improve the situation as long as the guidelines are followed on paper.
> Initially I picked the 5000th largest file with includes, but for devtools_target_ui.cc, I see a bit more legitimacy for having lots of includes. It has 384 "own" lines in he .cc file and, of course, also about 19.5 MB size with includes.
> A C++20 source file including some standard library headers easily bloats to a little under 1 MB IIRC, and that's already kind of unreasonable. 20x of that is very unreasonable.
I think you're not arguing pro-forward-declarations vs anti-forward-declarations here though - it sounds more like an argument for more granular header/source files? In .cc file, each and every include should be necessary for the file to compile (although looking at your example, bind.h seems to be unused and could be removed - looks like the file was refactored and the includes weren't cleaned up).
With that said, in the corresponding zoom_view_controller.h, the tab_interface.h include looks to be unnecessary so you did find one good example. :)