Show HN: Dev atrophy test – Can you still code without AI?

mrborgen · 2025-07-09T08:00:32.000Z

Hey HN,I'm Per from Scrimba (YC S20), the code-learning platform.There's been a lot of talk lately about whether AI tools are causing skill atrophy amongst developers. We get a front-row seat to this, and we see more and more students struggle with basic concepts, and building apps on their own. This is almost always a consequence of relying too much on ChatGPT and vibe coding tools.So we built a small side project: https://devatrophy.comIt's a test of your core web dev knowledge — no handholding, no back rubs, no AI autocomplete. Just you, your brain, and 10 questions. There are three levels (Noobie, Le Chad, Hardcore), and the questions cover HTML, CSS, JavaScript, databases, and Node.You’ll get a score at the end, plus a downloadable certificate for bragging rights (or public shaming).Would love for you to try it and tell us what you think. And would be curious to hear if you're feeling any signs of "dev atrophy" yourself, or in your team?PS: Ironically we decided to produce it by vibe coding on V0. Oh the irony.

Tistel 358 days ago |

I am not worried about personal atrophy. I am worried about young people who never learn the fundamentals and blindly believe everything the llm say.

rijoja 358 days ago | |

computer science is not social science

if your code doesn't work it doesn't work

you can't bullshit a computer

for people that are doing social science it's an issue

but they where way past the point of no return already so it doesn't really matter

grues-dinner 358 days ago | | |

> if your code doesn't work it doesn't work

Code can definitely only sort of work: only works on the happy path, only works on the computer it was developed on, only works for some versions of some dependencies, only works when single threaded, only works when the network is fast enough, only works for a single user at a time etc etc etc.

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

yes so then you have a combination of code that works and code that doesn't work

and the code that doesn't work doesn't work

haileys 358 days ago | | |

Software engineering is way more of a social practice than you probably want to believe.

Why is the code like that? How are people likely to use an API? How does code change over time? How can we work effectively on a codebase that's too big for any single person to understand? How can we steer the direction of a codebase over a long timescale when it's constantly changing every day?

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

Yes that is very true but social science is more of a social practice than computer science

If you run your organization badly, you'll run into problems sooner, than if you are in social science, where you just have to say all the buzzwords and they'll just rubberstamp you true

If you are arguing that my point is that computer science would be 100% falsifiable and social science is 0% falsifiable then you're argument is a bit of a straw man

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

> Why is the code like that? How are people likely to use an API? How does code change over time? How can we work effectively on a codebase that's too big for any single person to understand? How can we steer the direction of a codebase over a long timescale when it's constantly changing every day?

At which point you are studying project management theory, or whatever you call it

monsieurgaufre 358 days ago | | |

I’d argue that computer science is on a gradient between social science and physics.

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

I'd argue that anything that has science at the end isn't :)

monsieurgaufre 358 days ago | | |

So computer science isn’t either then.

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

that's the joke :D

eesmith 358 days ago | | |

Materials science rolls its eyes every time it hears that hoary joke.

queenkjuul 358 days ago | | |

Code can absolutely "kinda work" or "mostly work"

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

aha and if it mostly works there are parts that doesn't work right?

deepdarkforest 358 days ago | | |

>if your code doesn't work it doesn't work

you can't bullshit a computer

this is wrong. I would argue the difference between a junior dev/intern and a senior engineer is that while both can write code that works, the juniors find local maximas, like solutions that work, but can't scale, or wont be very easy to integrate/add features on top/maintain etc.

This happens in maths, biology, in all science fields. Experience is partly the ability to take decisions between options that both work.

This is why coding assistants are amazing at executing things you are clear on what you want to do, but can't help (yet) on big picture tweaks

rijoja 358 days ago | | |

Right I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I see where you are coming from right.

My point being that it's quite easy to demonstrate that it can't scale, by running an experiment.

Meaning that you could quite easily BS your way through that by just agreeing with whatever the status quo is.

Whereas in social science you can't do an empirical experiment, so you're epistemologically on much much more shakier ground

> This happens in maths, biology, in all science fields Right but I wrote social science and not maths or biology.

For instance if someone where to say that due to Hegelian Dialeticts and gender critical theory, in the future women are destined to rule the world, this is a good thing, and this will lead to the abolishment of racial inequality and exploitation through capitalism

how do you prove that?

in comparison if the problem is that your software isn't efficient when there are over 100 instance, you can prove that by spinning up 100 instances?

You can't clone earth and force all the inhabitants to enact ideologically pure race critical theory, and then ask the inhabitants in the control group to try out nazism, wait for a while and then use that to prove that one or the other is the best way can you?

rijoja 358 days ago |

being good at software design isn't about memorizing the specific details of a single language or subjects

languages are subject to change

hire people who are good at finding information

not someone who is good at blindly memorizing details of a specific instance of a language or system

someone who memorized every single detail of COBOL will be a worse coder than someone who spent time thinking about abstract thinking and problem solving

you'll want to double check everything anyway

this shows of a fundamental lack of insight into what it means to be a good developer

it's like someone who thinks they are smarter than everyone else because they spent thousands on hours on playing chess

this student who has memorized the full specification of HTML, CSS and Javascript will be useless if you ask them a question about lets say Erlang, and is easily replaced by a book

yifanl 358 days ago |

So as someone who's not written Javascript in a decade, this on the face of it seems wrong to me:

Your example correct answer to "Write a function that returns the sum of two parameters" is

    function myFunction(example) {
    example
    }

Is the atrophy coming from inside the house?

laserpistus 358 days ago | |

The vibe giveth, the vibe taketh.

This worked but ai wants to rewrite whole files all of the time so it broke. Our designer fixed the issue now.

hailpixel 358 days ago |

Always love a fun quiz, but some of the example answers are just incorrect. Eg: `document.example('example')` to select a HTML button element. Others are to rigid to allow the true breadth of correct answers.

Ya'll might want to switch from V0 to claude code.

laserpistus 358 days ago | |

It worked on my machine! seems v0 changed how it makes examples when it shouldnt.

amelius 359 days ago |

> no handholding

I still feel more like the LLMs are the ones who need the handholding.

justcommenter 358 days ago |

"Questions cover HTML, CSS, JavaScript, databases, and Node." Ah yes, as if Web development = All coding

laserpistus 358 days ago | |

You are right, it should just focus on React really.

downboots 359 days ago |

lumberjack test - can you down a tree without chainsaw?

rijoja 358 days ago | |

dev atrophy test - can you still code without ever reading a manual

lofaszvanitt 358 days ago |

Someone spending too much time in wonderland. Code already ate through your common sense. Next.

evadne 358 days ago |

some of the tests and standard answers are strange such as the one with debounced function not considering whether there should only be 1 arg / the dev could use the arguments keyword and call, the filter numbers question insisting on === instead of == etc etc.

pif 358 days ago |

Typical of the dark side of HN, thinking that web programming represents software development, instead of being just one kind of information systems, which are a subset of software applications.

bmn__ 358 days ago |

Have you even dogfooded your quiz once before publishing to the Web?

> JS methods to select an element

> YOUR ANSWER

> getMethod: "getQuerySelectorAll"

> EXAMPLE CORRECT ANSWER

> const button = document.example('example');

TypeError: document.example is not a function

----

> Create an HTML form with an input field and submit button:

> YOUR ANSWER

> <input type="submit">Submit</input>

> EXAMPLE CORRECT ANSWER

> <button type="submit">Submit</button>

Not incorrect answer assessed as incorrect.

Stoo 358 days ago | |

Your button answer is wrong though because the input tag can't have content. The version using input should be <input type="submit" value="Submit" />.

Stoo 358 days ago | | |

Having said that, I did just get marked down for having filter(num => num % 2 === 0) when the correct answer shouild (apparently) be filter(x => x % 2 === 0) so it's not great.

laserpistus 358 days ago | |

Classic vibe issue of it regressing how the examples are generated. Will check it.

queenkjuul 358 days ago | |

Not sure what you expected, they built it with AI lol

dakiol 358 days ago |

I don’t see in which context coding without aid is helpful:

- at work, nobody cares. They only want shipped features.

- at home, I only care about having fun (and that doesn’t necessarily mean to not use tools like ides, llms, autocomplete, etc)

rijoja 358 days ago | |

it's helpful for them, because it means they can get a lot of VC money by putting some ugly 4chan meme pictures on a website in order to get attention

laserpistus 358 days ago | | |

Just made for fun, we are self funded.

frizlab 358 days ago | |

I sometimes code light swift scripts in vim without autocomplete. Not saying everybody should, but it’s fun to me, and convenient.

rijoja 358 days ago |

> This is almost always a consequence of relying too much on ChatGPT and vibe coding tools.

How do you know it's not because they are to put it bluntly stupid or lazy?

DanAtC 358 days ago |

[flagged]