Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis(english.elpais.com) |
Molecule produced by gut bacteria causes atherosclerosis(english.elpais.com) |
I think the value of the current study in Nature is that "ImP administration to atherosclerosis-prone mice fed with chow diet was sufficient to induce atherosclerosis without altering the lipid profile, and was linked to activation of both systemic and local innate and adaptive immunity and inflammation.", i.e. they provided evidence of causality in a mechanistic way, with an intervention.
However, the newspaper article overplayed novelty. ImP and other metabolites from gut bacteria have already been linked to atherosclerosis.
"""Imidazole propionate serum measurements
ImP was quantified using ultra-performance liquid chromatography coupled to tandem mass spectrometry according to previous work. Briefly, serum samples were extracted with 3 volumes of ice-cold acetonitrile containing internal standards (13C3-labeled ImP and urocanate). After derivatization to butyl esters using 5% hydrochloric acid in butanol, the samples were separated on a C18 column using a gradient consisting of water and acetonitrile. Quantification was made using an external calibration curve16."""
So yes, but no.
"The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate
are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish,
tea, and low-fat dairy products."
"When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult
it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple
it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising,
following a healthy diet, and not smoking."Microbially produced imidazole propionate impairs prostate cancer progression through PDZK1 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/39819421/
You really need to know your genetics to be certain, and make sure you have enough B6.
Meat is very high in histidine so that is why this meat, without enough B6, will raise the risk of heart disease and T2D as well as colon cancer.
Anyway, fascinating. As time goes on, more "lifestyle diseases" will be root-caused like this, rather than just being due to "personal choice" and "willpower". There are a ton of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_disease
1. Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection.
2. Atherosclerosis (Bad diet? Lack of exercise?)... now maybe root-caused.
3. ?
Yes, sure, lifestyle has something to do with any or all of these. But how much seems debatable.
There's a lot of questionable microbiome science that hasn't been replicated. You can find a lot of studies that say something changes the microbiome, but it's almost always a single short-term observational study on a small group of people.
Realistically, increasing vegetable intake and reducing processed food intake are the easiest knobs you can turn to adjust the microbiome. A lot of people reach for supplements or imagine extreme measures like fecal transplants, but the practical solution is to simply buy some snacking vegetables every time you go to the store and eat them throughout the day.
I do not mean to come across as antagonistic, I just haven't been able to find a line that everyone agrees with and felt it was useful to demonstrate that by asking a bunch of questions.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44593748
[2] "Imidazole propionate is a driver and therapeutic target in atherosclerosis" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-025-09263-w
Is there a project like this one can join in the US? I've always wanted to contribute to a biomedical study.
It's not really something you can go looking to volunteer for though, someone has to be putting together a cohort study (which is a big expensive long term project) on a group that you happen to be part of, and you can agree to participate in it.
I myself was on 1 year study post organ transplant for impact of whole grain plant based diet. They educate you initially on the diet and then monitor your weight and blood tests over the year.
https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/HYPERTENSIONAHA.120....
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9235870/figure/F1/
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6213249/figure/nutr...
https://www.caymanchem.com/product/33458/imidazole-propionat...
I don’t know how to say this kinder than that you’ve been intellectually consuming trash, please pull yourself back.
Structured water is a real thing, not some hocus pocus.
It's in your blood vessels for example, it forms a thin layer at the edges.
It cannot. Well mostly. As I said, heart disease when eating high meat diets will only be risky for those people with the wrong genetics, mostly if you have disorders of B6 metabolism, carnivore will be bad for you.
The plaques are also formed by lipid oxidation so oxidative stress plays a role as well.
I had to look up structured water and agree with the sibling poster: stop listening to cranks and grifters.
The article directly says that diet and lifestyle factors are associated with levels of imidazole propionate
> When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, following a healthy diet, and not smoking. The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products.
It's easy to be lured into the idea that diseases are inflicted upon us by nature at random rather than the result of our lifestyle, but in cases like this it's lifestyle and diet that shape the activity of the bacteria.
> Ulcers: (stress?)... now root-caused to H.pylori infection.
This is also a misunderstanding of the research. About half of ulcers are caused by NSAID overuse. NSAID overuse is associated with stress, too. Even without NSAIDs, stress is associated with increased stomach acid production, which amplifies susceptibility to ulcers.
So it's not correct to wave it all away and say that it's all random bacterial infections. NSAIDs are a common source, and stress can amplify susceptibility to ulcers from either cause.
That is not what I said (per my comment "Yes, sure, lifestyle has something to do with any or all of these.") But it seems likely we'll find that lifestyle and diet are not the only cause, maybe not even the primary one.
>>> When Fuster presented the project in 2010, he noted how difficult it is to diagnose cardiovascular problems early and how simple it is to prevent them, with measures such as exercising, following a healthy diet, and not smoking. The new study shows that blood levels of imidazole propionate are lower in people with diets rich in vegetables, fruits, whole grains, fish, tea, and low-fat dairy products.
So... cardiovascular problems can be "prevented" with those simple measures? It seems likely there are some non-smoking marathoner vegans that have died of heart attacks. But maybe he was mis-translated.
>About half of ulcers are caused by NSAID overuse.
(From https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8002800/: "NSAIDs are second to Helicobacter pylori infection in causing peptic ulceration in the upper GI tract.")
I didn't know that! Thank you, that is very interesting.
Microbially produced imidazole propionate impairs prostate cancer progression through PDZK1 https://molmed.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s10020-025...
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-78787-4 There exists a statistically substantial inverse association between angina pectoris and lung cancer (β = − 0.118, p = 0.001), breast cancer (β = − 0.049, p = 0.029), and colorectal cancers (β = − 0.152, p = 0.003). A noteworthy inverse correlation was observed between heart attack and lung cancer
Also Imidazole propionate is metabolized by bacteria from histidine. And Histidine turns into Histamine withe the help of B6 via Histidine decarboxylase.
So maybe people with heart disease need B6?
Vitamin B6 and cardiovascular disease https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22116704/
So it is personal choice, but you have to know the choices. Many things deplete B6, alcohol being one opf them.
In practice, for the vast majority, it doesn't matter where the line is drawn.
Simply moving your diet as close as possible to unprocessed food (read: minimal steps between organism and ingestion) is the goal.
FWIW: I avoid added sugar (sweeteners), empty calories.
eg Pre-made spaghetti sauce has sugar, so I make my own. Can of costco tomato sauce, garlic, italian herbs, garlic, oil, garlic, pinch of salt & pepper. Then I add some garlic.
eg I use plain greek yogurt in my smoothies. Flavored yogurt means added sugar. I can add my own flavors.
In my house, we make a distinction between "snacks" (food in-between meals) and "treats". I mosdef crave potato chips, doughnuts, cake, candy, etc. To better moderate, I don't keep any of those "empty" calories at home.
YMMV. IIRC, type-2 diabetics use artificial sweeteners. I'm not a doctor and can't guess what's best for anyone else.
Most processed food is made of ground meat and various types of mush/pastes, so it easily falls apart in the gut.
https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-...
The researchers found that healthier diets and lifestyle were associated with lower levels of imidazole propionate. Trying to starve the bacteria of precursors isn't practical.
Not starve them, but put them on a diet?
Low B6 will lead to increased histidine by inhibiting Histidine decarboxylase.
https://healthmatters.io/understand-blood-test-results/histi...
What would it even mean for lifestyle choices to directly cause some condition?
Attributing causation is largely subjective (up to a point). It's like saying "flipping the light switch didn't turn off the lights, rather it was the cessation of the flow of electrons".
> So... cardiovascular problems can be "prevented" with those simple measures? It seems likely there are some non-smoking marathoner vegans that have died of heart attacks. But maybe he was mis-translated.
Eating right, not getting fat, and exercising dramatically lowers the risk of heart disease. Some people who do all that will still get heart disease due to some congenital condition. But the vast majority of heart disease can be avoided.
Eating a diet largely of white rice directly causes beriberi. At least 9/10 people will get beriberi if they eat a diet that's mostly white rice. The median human body needs a certain amount of thiamine to operate properly, and without that certain body functions will cease to occur properly.
Eating too much spinach will cause kidney stones, but by exacerbating a different underlying cause (not directly). 9/10 people will not get kidney stones by eating too much spinach. Making the lifestyle choice to eat smaller amounts of spinach than the general population will protect against kidney stones, but it doesn't mean that spinach is bad to eat.
Without knowing the difference in bodily makeup that allows spinach to influence the occurrence of kidney stones, doctors will vilify spinach. But once the bodily factor that causes this will known, they'll either be able to treat that or recommend lifestyle (diet) changes specifically to the people who have that mutation, rather than vilifying spinach in general.
>What would it even mean for lifestyle choices to directly cause some condition?
The glib answer would be something like woodworking and missing fingers :-)
But there are plenty of people (not me!) who believe, for example, that obesity and type-2 diabetes are directly caused by overeating and/or lack of exercise.
Lifestyle choices increase the risk of these diseases but if they caused the disease, everyone who ate the diet would get the disease, and we know that is not true.
The difference is crucial because we know genetics plays a role as well so matching diet and genetics would be useful.