Dwl: Dwm for Wayland(codeberg.org) |
Dwl: Dwm for Wayland(codeberg.org) |
Sadly I can't seem to find a config I like for waybar, if anyone has any tips or dotfiles please share them!
As a side note, I found that Niri uses less battery for me than both sway and hyprland.
Also, DWM has an explicit goal of being minimal and to not grow too big. There's no way in hell that Suckless would accept a patch which makes the code way more complex and over 2x larger to make DWM work as a Wayland compositor.
dwl began by extending the TinyWL example provided (CC0) by the sway/wlroots developers. This was made possible in many cases by looking at how sway accomplished something, then trying to do the same in as suckless a way as possible.(i used dwl for quite a while. strong recommend.)
That is very nice!
In a commercial project like windows, this sort of project is a total no-go. However in a collaborative community project like linux userspace, developers have more freedom to make design decisions in spite of short-term consequences.
>The people that develop Linux desktop are deeply unserio
The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in. He must reflect what is projected upon him. And he must have a strong sense of the sardonic. This is what uncouples him from belief in his own pretensions. The sardonic is all that permits him to move within himself. Without this quality, even occasional greatness will destroy a man.
-Frank Herbert
Don't take yourself too seriously, it might ruin you!
Sometimes it's very visible, like they are pushing a new UI framework. Other times it's under the hood, like they changed how a lot of GDI works.
Not sure how many of the gnome (mutter) people are paid. Last I checked, the nvidia support was donated by nvidia (paid) for both KDE and Gnome.
I think KDE got some work sponsored by valve (before gamescope), though I'm not quite sure on that.
Overall, outside the sway/wlroots group I was a part of at the time, people generally worked adjacent or directly on wayland for day jobs.
I wrote a couple of tiny IPC watchers that send notifications on workspace change and whatnot. The rest is handled by centerpiece:
So, having some experience with the project and how different x and wayland are, when I saw this commenter had brought up the idea of making the switch from x to wayland a patch, it made me laugh out loud. The idea of leaning even further into the borderline degenerate amount of patching already done with suckless software to the point where you're practically rewriting the majority of it was very funny, and so I was confused about the downvotes.
Btw, it's not uncommon that a commenter (you in this case) will respond to a mod (me in this case) with substantive information that they didn't include in their original comment, which explains what they really meant to say. We call this the 'rebound' phenomenon (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...).
It's a pity that the comment doesn't come out this way to begin with! But it's hard to remember that the state in one's head isn't transmitted automatically, and also hard to figure out which bits of it need to be put into a comment. Something about getting resistance (like a mod reply) stimulates this process. Maybe someday we'll figure out how to activate it more proactively.
Are Linux desktop projects still run mostly by volunteers these days anymore?
The kernel itself is heavily funded by, contributed to by so many large companies. A lot of user space projects are all maintained by companies or maintainers who work for companies like Redhat, Canonical, Suse etc ...
Didn't Wayland itself get popular during Nokia/Intel Meego days? I remember there being automotive compositors, Jolla Phone all using wayland.
Day to day stuff is way better than x11. Remember how much fiddling used to be necessary to configure x11 for your specific devices? I've never once done that and I don't miss it at all.
By the way, pipewire is amazing.
Er. No, I don't remember that. Are you talking about needing to make a xorg.conf once upon a time? Because that hasn't been generally needed for... over a decade? Maybe two at this point?
its not a dichotomy. Xorg was built on X11R6, a platform that was written circa 1993. You cannot "tackle issues important to users" based on an outdated stack. They were painted into numerous corners that only a rewrite would fix.
You said you did your research so I have to believe that you don't care about security.
But most people care.
[1] You would never guess the amount of times I have encountered doctors questioning the practices of another doctor. :P It happened so many times...
This is not me downplaying those issues some people encounter in Wayland. But I think you're sort of doing the opposite.
(And, Wayland is not a "product".)
* VNC is covered by wayvnc (unless you're on GNOME or maybe? KDE, but those have their own implementations)
* ssh -X should be covered by waypipe
* application software should generally work in XWayland (which okay is a little cheaty but if it works it works)
The two pain points I'm currently aware of are:
* Unified vs fractured ecosystem: In practice, everyone on X11 used Xorg and every window manager and desktop environment had the same basic features because of it. You could always control the keyboard layout via setxkbmap, every screenshot tool worked everywhere, xrandr/arandr were always available to configure displays, etc. In Wayland there is never one answer to anything; not every compositor lets you configure the keyboard and if they do each one has their own way to do it, there are 3 different screenshot protocols (supposedly KDE and wlroots are converging so only GNOME will be doing their own thing but I'm not holding my breath), display configuration is completely up to compositor choice, etc.
* The accessibility story isn't there. There's work on it, so eventually the outcome will probably be "just throw out the a11y tools you're used to and switch to these new ones", but for now the current status is "they're working on it but it isn't there yet".
waypipe
The response to this is usually "that program is bad, it has problems and that isn't the fault of Wayland, don't use it". But Wayland broke userspace. If these programs all work well on X, that is a Wayland problem.