Can we please at least try to be a little more objective in how we use language?
You may agree or disagree with what Basecamp, now 37signals, did but the company did not “implode”.
Many of their employees - one third - did disagree with what they did and chose to leave.
Was their leaving a protest? Well, maybe. But IIRC they were offered very generous severance terms, which would have made that choice much easier to make and so perhaps robs it of some of its value as a protest.
And what about the company? Well, as far as I can tell, they seem to be doing fine. They’re offering junior devs, was it 125k or 150k US fully remote? Somewhere in that ballpark anyway. And just about anywhere within a certain range of time zones. That’s not a sign of a company that’s struggling.
I have read DHH’s blog post about London, and I am a Brit, so think I can offer a somewhat qualified point of view here. DHH is correct about the demographic changes in London over the past decades, but he’s absolutely wrong to cast Tommy Robinson (aka Stephen Yaxley-Lennon) as some kind of good faith activist standing up for the rights of ordinary British folks. The guy is a criminal and a low-life grifter. I can’t even really call him a fascist because I’m not convinced he really believes a word he’s saying. So I’ll stick with con-artist.
Back to the post: the most charitable interpretation I can put on it is that DHH simply hasn’t done his homework on Robinson. Is that an accurate characterisation? I honestly don’t know.
I wish I can see more summary, state facts mostly (with sources even they might not be reliable but better than just guessing without source)
I am not affiliated with either “side” so I allow myself this small outburst of my own because I see no receipts and the tone of this blog post set the stage for it.
Then why are you carrying water for exclusively one "side"?
Do I have to be neutral?
World views that disparage human beings where previously condemned but the overton window slowly shifted the topic of eg. "degenerates" back into the public. Even though we are thankfully not quite there to talk openly about a final solution (that time might come!).
It started with "edgy humor" and ambigous statements and slowly increased in misantrophy and number.
Ofc it is predominantly the political right that, openly or indirectly, revolves around conservative identity politics and in turn is more susceptible to disgust driven out-group biases.
But this behaviour can be seen on the political left too. As a reaction to the right communicating in dog whistles, they got kind of conditioned on it too and that is IMO the prime motivator of this blog post.
Jared White could have done a better job by collecting more examples of such "hate speech" but to be pedantic here, DHH -- like any reasonable person -- should avoid ambiguity and take a big step back from any ambiguous public communication or at least clarify.
When this open, clear and construstive communication doesnt happen, you can observe stuff like this. Name calling and blame around "banalities". Its just the surfacing part of a bigger conflict, which can be hard to pin point since one side is (intentionally) ambiguous/evasive/ignorant.
Reading DHHs quoted X post is a good example of deteriorating communication:
> @dhh: While the rest of the tech world has mostly moved on from the nonsense of the early 2020s, there are still a few ardent ideologues fighting the last war on Reddit, believing that ridiculous accusations like “nazi” and “fascist” still carry any weight
I wouldnt put a text together, where (1) i am not adressing the other sides concerns, (2) frame them negatively and (3) normalize allegations, others take very serious (nazi, fascism) as wheightless when i am in charge of managing (and uniting) a community. This is a serious red flag.
All the maintainers quit, including the single security engineer. The code is now unmaintained. There's a good argue that security has been reduced.
“First-world problems” shouldn’t be seen as an insult, but a celebration! Hurraaaay, I have ascended from the daily toils and tribulations of a life in the third world, so my worries may now include slow laundry machines and air conditioning, not starvation or failed states [party confetti emoji]
What this guy feels about that:
I regret to say I am unable to support an organization which seems unable to publicly disavow a man who has demonstrated numerous times to be a racist, homophobe, transphobe, fatphobe, ableist white nationalist who is now apparently cheering on death via starvation in third world countries
It's too much. I don't have the patience for this. The complaint is so out of left field I have to assume DHH and the RubyCentral guys are right.
It seem impossible for some people to allow anyone with dissenting views to their own to even exist anymore, pretty sad set of affairs.
What's the old quote? "Your right to swing your fist ends at the other guys nose?" Perhaps we'd all do better keeping that in mind.
What's that about? Who are DHH enemies here?
What is even weirder is that towards the end, after all of the pie throwing, the author ends with "I am done. I am done with this drama." and suggests building a separate ecosystem for Ruby from the ground up
I can barely take the article serious at this point. I am afraid the author caused more damage and confusion than good, if anything, this might even make people feel like what RubyCentral did was right
That's a funny way to say that he asked for people to refrain from politics when they're at work and a third of the company said no and left, I really struggle to see this in a bad light. I don't have beefs on this whole discussion and only sporadically follow DHH blog posts, I think the main conflict people are having with his views is that work is not just work anymore, people are expected to share a vision, to have the same cliques, to live the same live, work became for some people what family, church or the local community used to be for most before that. See for example https://medium.com/signal-v-noise/the-company-isnt-a-family-... or his book "It Doesn't Have to Be Crazy at Work".
I was talking to a friend who worked in the US and the UK about the culture differences, and he mentioned how the US leaned more towards a family culture where the UK was more of a pub culture. On a family you feel required to cope with whatever bs is thrown at you because you're supposed to stick together. On a pub the more off putting you are the more chances people are not gonna talk to you.
Essentially, he is posting articles[1] saying he wants fewer non-white people in London.[2].
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45303111
Which sucks because there is real fascism in some parts of society. But DHH? I have no idea.
>> “First-world problems” shouldn’t be seen as an insult, but a celebration! Hurraaaay, I have ascended from the daily toils and tribulations of a life in the third world, so my worries may now include slow laundry machines and air conditioning, not starvation or failed states
> I regret to say I am unable to support an organization which seems unable to publicly disavow a man who has demonstrated numerous times to be a racist, homophobe, transphobe, fatphobe, ableist white nationalist who is now apparently cheering on death via starvation in third world countries.
The quote clearly doesn't "cheer on death via starvation". Given that, I'm extremely doubtful about the author's other claims that DHH is a fatphobe, homophobe, thisphobe, thatphobe.... If the author can be this silly and/or dishonest about something he himself quotes, then why should I trust anything else he says?
I then went and checked one of his links to DHH, which he describes as being "hateful to therapists". Here, check it yourself: https://world.hey.com/dhh/building-competency-is-better-than...
Calling this "hateful to therapists" is just ridiculous. DHH is arguing that there are good alternatives to therapy! There is nothing remotely close to hate in the whole article.
Maybe DHH is actually a total Nazi - I'd never heard of the guy till today. What we can clearly see is that Jared White is either a liar or an idiot.
I'm sorry to see this sort of nonsense still thriving, and it is 100% right that it should have been left behind. More than that - people who slander others deserve to be shamed themselves.
Plus there are perfectly valid reasons to prefer some categories of people over others. It has nothing to do with hate or fascism, it's only natural.
I'm a DINK (double-income no kids) and I don't feel the hate of DDH, I only see someone who thinks it's worthwhile to be a parent and it's a dead end not to be. It's technically true and you can't argue against that anyway.
> “First-world problems” shouldn’t be seen as an insult, but a celebration! Hurraaaay, I have ascended from the daily toils and tribulations of a life in the third world, so my worries may now include slow laundry machines and air conditioning, not starvation or failed states
How is this offensive? Seems like a nothing burger.
I don't know anything about this topic other than what was in this post.
> I regret to say I am unable to support an organization which seems unable to publicly disavow a man [...] who is now apparently cheering on death via starvation in third world countries.
I do not understand how such conclusion could be drawn, I even started asking myself how any of this was related to the current issue with RubyCentral and RubyGems?
I will say DHH's post on Trump's return is like reading something from an alternate universe (https://world.hey.com/dhh/mega-a0f62cd4). What optimism was there in Trump's second campaign? Trump promised exactly what he's doing: retribution, tariffs, self-dealing and corruption, accelerating climate change, etc. I'm curious DHH's assessment of the past ~9 months and how it matches with his original "optimism".
As someone who did enjoy his writing it's quite shocking and really very disappointing.
I remember listening to some interviews/podcasts where he discussed this. I don't have children myself, but I did not detect any malice in his arguments.
In the article he supports Tommy Robinson[0], who I think most people in the UK would consider a fascist. He started the EDL (english defense league) which was a more violent extreme version of the BNP (british national party), which the ADL article I just linked describes as "fascist".
I only found out about his views the other day too, so can't say I've noticed any articles that are explicitly fascist, but given what I've read and his support for fascist figures I wouldn't necessarily be surprised at the moment to be honest.
You do raise a fair point though.
[0] https://www.adl.org/resources/article/tommy-robinson-five-th...
> a populist political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual, that is associated with a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, and that is characterized by severe economic and social regimentation and by forcible suppression of opposition
now, let's think about tommy robinson and the EDL.
* exalts nation and often race above the individual - check.
* wants a centralised autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader - check.
* by forcible suppression of opposition - I mean... it's the EDL, big check.
EDIT: removed unnecessary trailing inflammatory comment
-> Theres little complaint about the "white" Ausie bartender, BECAUSE he probably speaks great English, came there legally, isn't consuming wellfare resources, isn't advocating for Sharia law, and might even end up going back to Ausie land.
It's not about *skin color*, it is about culture/crime/wellfare resources and legal double standards.
If an Ausie entered the UK illegally, he would be deported. If an Ausie committed a crime, he goes to jail and/or deported. With these other people, they enter illegally but then get placed in tax payer funded hotels and politicians conspire with police to cover up their crimes (see the rape gang scandals) and they literaly arrested the victims.
At one point there were plenty of complaints when *too many Polish white dudes* rocked up in the UK and competed for jobs and didn't always speak good English.
Not about race - it is about Language, culture, job competition, crime rates, wellfare resources, values (sharia-law / treatment of women), social integration vs enclaves.
And only when it involves so many millions of people comming in that it rapidly alters the local culture. (or shifts votes! or whatever other thing people care about - overwhelming of infrastructure / housing availability)
Why is DHH a racist for sympathising with some Britts whom are unhappy with the 60% cultural transformation that is occuring in London?
You are reading between the lines to hastily conclude that DHH is a racist. You need more than just "he wasn't complaining about white Ausie bartenders".
Quote me an actual paragraph or sentence where DHH says he dislikes anyone because of their race ? Or stop calling people racists without hard proof. The tone of that DDH London article seems quite radical. But tone is not enough to indict.
It isn't my job to give you a point by point rebuttal of all the racist talking points you've regurgitated.
Firstly, I don't give enough of a fuck about what any individual thinks and I certainly don't do background checks on conference speakers.
Secondly, where do you draw the line? Shop workers? Hair dressers? Your taxi driver? Many of those in the country in which I am an immigrant would gladly forcibly deport me and separate me from my family; but I don't run scared enough of them to try to silence them or hide from them.
Also, I think you're being somewhat dramatic here saying he openly called for imprisonment and executions, but please provide sources if I'm wrong.
The thing is, now that you do know someone's views - what are you going to do?
People with abhorrent views should learn that people disagree with them. Otherwise they will continue to spill their toxic poison everywhere.
For sure I don't agree with those people, but they absolutely have the same rights as we do to have their own opinions. Trying to silence them just makes you as bad as they are. We can't change the current state of global discourse, but we can each be more tolerant of each other and that starts with ourselves.
What do you think he is trying to do if not incite violence and hate?
Fascist is an accurate enough term for their politics, the stated political positions may not align 100% to historical fascism, but given all the fascist associations most objective observers would say that's likely to be a product of political positioning rather than any genuine ideological differences.
I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of the British public don't think he is either. Which is why I am asking how he is one.
> Ok, so I've grabbed a random definition of fascism[0] (first thing that came up googling).
Yeah that is the same definition I was using.
> now, let's think about tommy robinson and the EDL. > * exalts nation and often race above the individual - check.
Sure I agree.
> * wants a centralised autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader - check.
Where did this come from? I don't think that article said anything about this.
> * by forcible suppression of opposition - I mean... it's the EDL, big check.
I don't know much about the EDL & what they have done so I couldn't comment on this.
> "(n) an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization."
Is this what DHH is advocating for? Absolutely. I'll skip past right wing because that part is obvious. Nationalistic in terms of "non-Londoners" being used interchangeably with immigrants, a person from Birmingham meets his "Native London" criteria, and using that criteria for social organization.
Pretty cut and dry for anyone using just the basic dictionary definition. Obviously, there's a version with more stipulations and exceptions you'd rather use but those can be safely filled under "overly esoteric".
I hope people who so overused&misused these words are happy with what they achieved.
Congratulations you made these words lose all power. I would have preferred a world where these words still had serious meaning attached to them.
I am not advocating violence against him. I am not trying to get him thrown out of his home.
The thing is, DHH can really easily stop being racist. Then people won't complain when he's invited to speak.
But the people he is complaining about cannot change their skin colour. They cannot change their nationality (according to him).
The people DHH support are advocating violence. They aren't asking politely for people to leave - they are threatening.
DHH is welcome to tell people not to come to my conferences. People can make up their own mind whether to listen to his opinion (or mine).
> how does that translate to wanting a dictatorial leader, autocracy, forcible suppression etc like Russia?
> > * wants a centralised autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader - check. > Where did this come from? I don't think that article said anything about this.
You responded to this with a wikipedia article, which said he denounced fascism/neo-nazis & banned people from events.
> So has he ever expressed anti-democratic ideas? Such as wanting a dictatorial leader, autocracy etc that kind of is a key component of fascism.
I don't see how my follow up question was unreasonable given the wikipedia or ADL article you linked never said he expressed anti-democratic ideas.
However, projectazorian has convinced me that while they may not have expressed fascist views directly, with their deep connections to neo-nazis/fascists they could be hiding it to be electable.
How is DHH fascist?
- here he is espousing ethno-nationalist viewpoints (one key fascist ideology).
How is that fascist?
- ok, here he is supporting a fascist. See this article specifying that he was a member of a fascist organisation for 5 years, and then started a more extreme offshoot of it.
How is tommy robinson fascist?
- Here are some reasons.
How is the EDL fascist?
- here is an article discussing fascism and the EDL
Has he expressed a specific viewpoint?
- point out sealioning.