I'm going to travel to Japan (again) around late November this year. For this trip, I made a point to not return to a city I've been to already — Tokyo is an exception but I need to take my plane back home at some point.
Japan really has a high density when you go to the touristic attractions (most of those are inside Tokyo, Kyoto or Osaka). But when you go out of your way, you won't regret it. Peaceful streets, beautiful gardens. I would even advocate to actively go out of your way. Even if you get lost, Japan is very forgiving. People will try to help you.
Somehow, outside of those cities it kinda looks like the countryside everywhere, but as long as there is a train station it's still convenient to go there.
Also, Japan is cheap. People doubt me when I say this, but Japan is very inexpensive. When you do the "Top 5" on TripAdvisor and eat Kobe Beef every day, yes it sure is expensive but it also is an experience that isn't meant to be lived that many times.
If any of you read this and need help planning a trip or want any humble suggestions, feel free to contact me!
The minimum wage seems impossibly low, but there's a human economy - no one who works doesn't eat. You can have fresh, nutritious meals and ingredients right from the field for pennies on the dollar practically wherever you go. The variety is mind boggling, as is the convenience.
Hmm, unless I'm not getting your point, this seems at variance with the lived experience of most East and Southeast Asians. (I've lived all over the world, mostly in Asia Pacific and North America)
America has relatively high labor cost (plus tax and tips, you're looking at at least $20/meal/person post-covid) and eating out is expensive and it is actually not that common to eat out -- at least not at a sit down restaurant. For most Americans, eating out is maybe a once or twice a week affair.
In most of Asia (including Japan) eating out is relatively cheap and most can afford to do it daily (many young people in Asia don't cook). I don't know if anyone goes to Japan to eat $200 teppanyaki or that izakayas are a daily affair, but most meals in Japan cost under US$10. An udon is under $5, and a gyudon (beef, soup, rice) at Yoshinoya costs under $5. No tax or tip -- you pay sticker price.
Yes that is unfortunately true and sometimes they aren't even upfront about it. It's very common to have this fee in bars and izakaya[1].
But I would still argue that it's still quite affordable compared to other big cities.
I'm not arguing for the purchasing power of Japanese people inside Japan[2], but as a tourist it definitely seems like a first-tier destination without the price!
[1]: Japanese pub, basically
[2]: Trust me, they really did get the wrong end of the stick
Edit: After reading another comment, I actually misread Dollars for Yens and I think I was talking about something completely different!
I was in Kyoto last year for two weeks. There are still lots of places where you can be completely alone in nature or a garden or a lovely street. But "the Big Five" are off limits unless you love human traffic jams.
That said, Gion before 10am is practically empty. You can wander around and look at the architecture. And I know quiet places within five blocks of central Gion.
I have mixed feelings about even saying this. Please, don't go . But if you are a respectful, slow traveler, Kyoto is still doable.
Went to Japan for the first time in August (…don’t recommend…the heat is intense…) and instead of spending days in Kyoto and Osaka, we spent a few days in Otsu on Lake Biwa.
Highlights:
- The freshwater beach was delightful (Biwako Omi-Maiko Nakahama) - There’s a public onsen that’s not listed on the official onsen association’s site (which only lists resorts you have to book long in advance and pay lots for): Spa Resort Ogoto Agaryanse. It has strip mall vibes from the outside but is a great local onsen on the inside. - If you’re an American and want to experience cultural appropriation: take a cruise on the Michigan paddle boat
And, of course, it’s close enough to Kyoto that you can bop in and out.
I’ve spent considerable time in Tokyo in recent years as well. It’s largely the same as it ever was. “Incidents” with tourists are clearly blown out of proportion by local social media. Yes, there are visibly more foreigners than in 2008 (mostly immigrants who work and speak Japanese). No, the character of the city has not changed.
On my Shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo most recently, a noisy quartet of drunk guys chatted loudly for over a hour on the late evening weekday train and spilled a beer. Can you imagine the horror? They were Japanese restaurateurs from Osaka.
Being middle aged Australians, we are definitely part of the problem described, but taking some comfort, after reading that article through, that we're part of that first 20% cohort. Also that wandering randomly and preferring to avoid crowds makes for a better experience, in the traditional (lived), if not the insta / tik tok, sense
We're also old enough to recall travelling before 'all this', and while I'm sure that same sense of nostalgia recurs for each generation, just (like many things) it feels unnervingly like we're rapidly approaching a tipping point of sorts.
Kyoto was our nod to a 'proper city' in our itinerary, fully conscious of the warnings about crowds, but mildly optimistic about our timing. We'd originally been planning a 2020 trip, which got kiboshed, but the upside was my wife spent an additional five years collecting duolingo badges in anticipation.
We opted to eschew Osaka, and from here are heading to increasingly smaller places.
Hiroshima was one of those places I felt should be visited by everyone. Or perhaps more accurately - especially by everyone who doesn't appreciate why they should.
(The museum there - if you turn up after 9am - almost feels like it is in fact being visited by everyone.)
Do people have tips to find less touristy but still worthwhile places to go. Tourists go for these big places because traveling to Japan costs quite a bit and I’m using limited vacation time. Planning the trip in a location where the language doesn’t even have the same characters and I don’t have many familiar geographical reference points that coordinate with known cultural themes (unlike Europe) is already a bit overwhelming.
Just don't fully pack the day and save time for randomly walking around, especially at night when a not sober Japanese person will be more likely to try out their English and give a recommendation. Your ability to get information and meet people will exponentially increase with every single Japanese word you learn. When I lived there meetup was popular and international parties set you up with people specifically there to practice in a fun environment.
I'm lucky and got to study there and live there. But definitely had regrets my first time going by taking the advice of jaded people who lived there saying things like Tokyo Tower is lame and you can get a better view from some government building. They had all gone and had the experience and I just missed out.
Also,personally I would find a week in Kyoto 6 days too long and find Osaka way more interesting. But I also have been many times and only enjoyed the first time.
https://www.go-nagano.net/en/trip-idea/id16492
Forgot to mention, the uncharacteristically warm and long summer meant there hasn’t been enough food in the forests and bears have been coming into towns to forage. Lots of people have been hurt and killed by bears this year. Up 2.7 times according to the news today. Be careful when hiking anywhere secluded.
When I travel I get a lot of enjoyment from slice of life kind of experiences - watching people on the bus or by the river or a bunch of school kids going to lunch with their teacher. And if you just wander around Kyoto you'll get a lot of that with a lot of historic beauty.
My friends are there right now and they seem to be having a great time.
It's not a guide - it's a hard, fast, unbreakable rule, *especially* in Japan.
Obey rules. Follow queues. Don't eat and walk. BE QUIET.
Learning some of the language wouldn't go amiss either.
I've been to Japan over the last 20 years or so and I've become utterly INFURIATED at tourists from pretty much every country. Yanks and Chinese are loud and obnoxious, Aussies (my group) are woefully uncouth. Interestingly I don't have much of a general impression of European travellers.
Part rant, part instruction.
Japan has incredibly few bins in public for that reason/as a result of that reason.
-Tourists rent kimonos for $20 a day.
-Lots of people are there.
-Guy quoted in the article doesn't like it.
Small private gardens with interesting history and splendid views sitting nearly empty while a train of tens->hundreds of tourists walk directly past it per minute. Or small hiking trails within a stones throw of a packed entrance with a tiny fraction of the foot-traffic. They aren’t obscured either, just not the “main attraction”.
I was genuinely baffled.
No real confidence so they don't wander around and use their own brains. They just go to the top 10 spots chatGPT, tiktok, or some other list dictates.
It's like how people go to the Louvre and stand in line for 3 hours to look at one famous painting that they probably don't even really like all that much, and not see anything else in arguably the world's best gallery.
This is doubly true for a hot spot like Japan, because it's the current number one on the dumb lists.
I setup my camera and toook photos at Kinkakuji for hours in different lighting situations while having nice conversations with various Japanese tourists. It was, unimaginable. I still enjoy Kyoto though. It is what it is.
It’s not ridiculous, and you are relying purely on your anecdotal experiences to attempt to say otherwise. That is fine, you have every right to do that - but it does not negate the litany of media in English and Japanese that has covered this issue.
I also lived in the country for years, and am back several times a year to see friends and do business. I am fairly confident that the current situation and reputation that Kyoto has is not overstated; I do not know a single local who will even bother going at the moment.
It just tickled me so much that he admitted he was a little disappointed that he didn't get an "authentic hibachi experience" like at the Japanese steakhouses back home.
Anyways, I think they were talking about the price of entering the teppanyaki restaurant of ¥200/person.
I guess that time is over, and that's sad, I just don't feel like it has to be.
Maybe the declining population is just part of it all, there is just less incentive to go bigger, on the other hand, even 100,000 million people on an island the size of Japan is a lot so I'm not sure that's it either.
It is sad for the people of Kyoto though, because over tourism can really rip the heart out of a city for the locals.
As another poster commented, there are people who still build with traditional materials and methods. The temples are made of wood and have to be renovated. Some are completely rebuilt, symbolic of the transitory nature of the material world. Enryakuji is undergoing renovations and they had to completely cover it with a metal shed while they work on the roof. But it's still open and you can still visit either as a sacred site or to learn about the traditional methods. It is supposed to finished in 2026.
As far as building new temples. Those monasteries had thousands of resident monks. They were significant military powers they were so populated. Even though the overall population of Japan has grown, far fewer people want to live that life. But again, there's no shortage of temples.
what i intended to point out was that regrettably few people actually pay any attention to the nozze di cana despite it being both more accessible physically and worthy of interest