is my experience of dishwashers extraordinary ?
but if we talk about powders, they can be very different with different performance. There are commercial powders (for restaurants and such where dishwashers run on very short cycles) that I afraid to put in my dishwasher and there are eco powders that are made from unicorn tears (tried once, they cleaned dirt but leave stains on clear glass). i went through sds of a bunch of them. most of them have same similar basic ingredients, but in different proportions
Perhaps part of the issue is that the presenter in the video is using a somewhat primitive machine.
A couple of months into the experiment with the powder, the dishwasher started to smell a bit foul, which usually indicates time to clean the filters, which I did. But this happened vastly sooner than I was used to with the pods.
Even if the powder's performance sucks intentionally because Cascade made it worse now, as a sibling comment suggested, ultimately that's the only powder option still available here.
I like chocolate milk, made by mixing chocolate powder (Nesquik) into milk, and somehow everything except pods manages to leave a film of the chocolate powder over everything. I haven't watched this video yet, but my suspicion is he's using bad pods - ones that really are just packaged detergent without the extra chemicals they often include in the pods nowadays.
I wonder if part of it is differences in water hardness and such.
It's also why he's endorsing a new powder product he was involved in developing: it performs as good or better than the pods.
The new one (Bosch 500 series) takes three hours on its default "auto" cycle. No prerunning the tap to get hot water for the first fill, no worries about rice cooker pots. It runs for so long (quietly!) that everything gets soaked properly and comes off, sparking clean, no problem. Both the consumable (brands) that came with the machine as samples - the tablets and the rinse aid - are stocked in large packages at Costco at a per-wash cost that's negligible. I do put in rinse aid because drying is a weakness in this machine compared to the old one. That, and you can't run two loads in the same evening after a party. Prewash? Who cares, the dishes come out clean.
And that's kind of the whole point isn't it? Not to have to geek out with your dishwasher. Just fill it, get it started and expect to have clean dishes in the morning.
I mean, how come restaurants dishwashers wash things under 5 minutes? (Albeit with a lot of noise and with stronger water jets).
This guy has been incorrect in his yt posts so many times, I simply do not believe him anymore.
He is all about monetization and doesn't care about truth or accuracy.
I like pods because there is less of a chance my clumsy self, or younger kids can accidentally spill costly soap for my dog to try to lick up or overfill the dispenser. My dishes are almost never caked in fats and oils when I put them in. I do not use a pre-wash. If I do I break a pod in half and toss in the bottom.
This guy makes me roll my eyes. There is nothing more exhausting than a self-assured YouTuber lecturing others as if he has all the right answers. He is not wrong per se but not everyone has their own preferences and needs.
There's always chances with everything in life.
Perhaps teach/practice with your kids to be less clumsy - that will pay a lot more dividends than just using pods.
The opinion is based on his experience (horrible residue left by big-name powder in contrast to store-branded great-value powders being problem-free) and lab results.
i just went to check amazon. cascade complete powder has 4.6 with 9k reviews. if it was subpar, pretty sure that rating would have reflected it. for example plant based detergents hover around 4.
now i use cartridge like this that is replaced once in 3 weeks https://www.mieleusa.com/c/powerdisk-automatic-dishwasher-de...
it's even more convenient.
Interesting how people have completely different workflows with something trivial as a dishwasher.
> now i use cartridge
Yes, I agree that's obviously more convenient.
b) why remove self dissolvable plastic ? in 15 years the only time that it didn't dissolve for me was when i blocked dispenser with a plat and pod was stuck on it
b) What do you think this dissolves to? Microplastic. The thing we currently have a hard time keeping out of our water reservoirs, rivers, and oceans. Where does it end up? In the (waste) water. Nice.
The creator argues that most dishwashers are designed to use a pre-wash dose and a main wash dose of detergent, a fundamental often ignored by single-dose pods, and presents independent ASTM testing confirming the new powder matches or exceeds the performance of a leading premium pod. The video also features a detailed demonstration using temperature logging and peanut butter to stress the importance of purging cold water from the hot water supply line before running a dishwasher, particularly in North America, to ensure the water reaches the optimal enzymatic temperature needed for effective cleaning. This is further reinforced by showing how adding pre-wash detergent dramatically improves the initial cleaning phase, especially with fats and oils.
One thing I can't get a good answer to is whether the "prewash" step is universally the case or not. I have a good Bosch dishwasher and there's no compartment for a bit of pre-wash detergent. I don't even know if my dishwasher cycle has a pre-wash step. I would assume the dishwasher manufacturer knows what's best.
The owner's manual gives advice about not pre-rinsing the dishes because the food bits actually help the wash cycle, so I'm wondering if it works differently from the two-step process in this video.
You can tell if your dishwasher has a pre-wash cycle if it does a short run, then you hear it draining, and then it does a longer full run. I expect it probably does.
Also, you can always add a bit of detergent to the main compartment of the dishwasher for prewash. The normal detergent compartment has a lid so the the detergent stays dry until the main wash cycle, and most prewash compartments are just an open tray.
Come to think of it, if there is a latching door on the detergent tray, your dishwasher definitely has a prewash cycle, or else they’d skip the door entirely
With better understanding you can achieve far better results. I no longer rinse or even scrape dishes. with the right approach my dishwasher performance has been stellar. The user manual also includes proper tuning to local water hardness levels.
Poor dishwashing also discourages people from cooking at home, which leads to less healthful diets. So it's an important thing to get right.
Dishwashing is fascinating.
The manual is likely referring to not hand rinsing dishes before loading them which was very common 30 or 40 years ago. I had to train my Mother to stop doing that.
The video explains why there always is a pre-wash step. Regardless of whether it comes with a pre-wash-powder compartment or not. I will try his solution.
Note: This dishwasher provides the optimum cleaning performance without the use of a prewash detergent and further enhances our standards of sustainability and efficiency.
The Extra Dry setting seems to help with getting the glass and ceramics dryer. Plastics still come out quite wet since it uses a hotter final rinse rather than a heating element to get dishes “dryer”.
Alec's dishwasher videos are based on some rather primitive dishwashers. For instance he talks about his test unit not flushing out the spray arms, but Bosch/Siemens filters the water going to the spray arms so it wouldn't recirculate dirty water anyways. Same deal with the prewash. Bosch uses a turbidity sensor to determine how many "prewash" cycles to run and when to reuse the water, something his test unit very clearly does not.
He is known as Angry Dishwasher Man for a reason.
This dishwasher also came with a box of Miele pods (and they encourage you to buy more). I think it's designed first and foremost to not use powder.
Like in the video: https://youtu.be/DAX2_mPr9W8?si=Njn749InqNCbjhQd&t=822
have you watched his videos? dude is on the spectrum.
to be clear, he makes good vids. but his fascinations exist for a reason.
American dishwashers don't have their own heater? All dishwashers I've seen in Australia only have cold water supply.
Some do, some don't.
The ones that do vary in ability by overall dishwasher quality.
The ones that don't are hooked up to the kitchen's hot water line.
This is considered more energy efficient because a home's hot water heater (whether electric, gas, or another fuel) is better at heating the water in a bulk capacity than a tiny heater in the dishwasher.
The downside is that the cold water between the big water heater and the dishwasher has to be purged first for it to be really effective. If your hot water heater is in the other side of the wall, no problem. If it's six rooms away, problem.
Whenever natural gas supply is turned off in the US, for any reason, only the gas company can turn it back on. And they can't do so if there's a leak at all. You have to call a plumber to come out, detect the leaks, and fix them. After that, you can call the gas company to come back out (but not on a weekend) to turn it back on. And a same-day request for service requires someone to be home ALL DAY after it's called in.
And this is how I ended up showering at work for three days that week after not having had one over the weekend.
retrofitting old traditional houses (especially stone) with higher capacity plumbing was expensive and infeasible, so putting heaters in appliances was a cope for markets that needed it.
I'm also firmly in the camp of having a flat cutlery compartment at the top and not that inefficient, and uncivilized, scarring, basket in bottom section.
Until seeing that video I thought I was crazy. I've found my master.
It seems so arcane for the operator to have to do this before running a cycle
Yes, purging the cold water manually does exactly the same thing. We live in a flawed world.
But the quality of the summary - and maybe the ability to expand it if slightly more details are required - and the low latency with that - are all super important. In that sense, AI can potentially save a lot of time in getting the right information quickly.
I wish the description of the video was like an abstract.
Following his cleaning instructions and, subsequently, his usage advice, did the trick.
Regarding the latter, notably adding the recommended prewash dose of detergent in addition to the main dose, and running the kitchen sink's hot tap until the water is fully hot before starting the dishwasher. Here in the US with our lower power capacity, resulting in dishwasher heating elements being restricted to lower power to avoid circuit breaker trips, when the dishwasher is correctly connected to the hot water line (typically, of the kitchen sink), doing this results in a hotter prewash and often also wash.
This all really does make a substantial difference.
Take the time to watch his dishwasher videos. If you struggle at all with the performance of yours, you won't regret doing so.
Doubly frustrating since mine is a small, single-drawer dishwasher, so pods are even worse since I can't break them down. It leads to me having way too much detergent in the dishwasher and I end up with residue on the dishes.
https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/gol-ui/product/sainsburys-conce...
And this has worked for me too:
https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/essential-dishwasher-...
Pods are a different story.
At some point, I'll maybe post up the pics of repairing the door hinges - previously it was leaking badly because the chunky metal hinges had cracked and bent, pushing the door up enough to not squash the bottom lip seal. Unobtainable parts now, but if you have a welder...
If you don't use a JTAG cable and a MIG welder on the same project in the same day, can you really call yourself "full stack"?
Dishwasher detergent doesn't make suds. Dish soap does. Are you sure you're using the correct stuff? Or prewashing the dishes for some reason and not getting all the soap off?
With dish liquid.
It's almost like the movies where the wash machine fills the house with suds, and the occupants go floating out the front door.
They are more expensive, but I buy them on sale at Costco for about $16/100, so at $0.16 per load I really don't care if powdered detergent is only $0.03 per load or whatever.
There is clearly a revealed preference for pods among consumers for these things, and "proving" that everyone is wrong for liking them is just not a very interesting exercise imo.
I strongly doubt the stuff is good for your skin, so I've only done this a few times.
And yes, it’s not good for your skin, so avoid immersing your hands in it or wear gloves.
The most critical part is the part you put the coffee in, which you can just put in the dishwasher every so often. Soaking the top compartment might make sense, you could use a dishwasher but I'd worry about the rubber seal.
But he said that almost as a throwaway, with almost no explanation of his methodology in determining this, nor discussion about how common this problem might be.
https://youtu.be/WnBb3DLlVPwsi=1fW2qg8_Y1SmxkKo
Tl;dr He actually tested each cycle, timed what it did, and measured the energy with a Kill a Watt. He also found the repair manual, which included a diagram of each cycle that matched his tests.
His ultimate finding was that all of the cycles and modifiers did wildly different things, none of which correlated in any way to their name.
That said, based on his advice in a previous video, now I run the hot water tap until it's hot. I put a pod in the dispenser, and I sprinkle some powder into the dishwasher. My issues with the dishwasher getting the dishes clean went away.
- One of the key factors in powder over pods in his prior videos was cost. Cheap powder runs about 6.6¢/oz. The brand he’s promoting is $1.11/oz, nearly 17x more expensive than traditional powder. When comparing per-load costs, Cascade pods are about 39.5¢ per load and the promoted powder is 58.5¢ per load, or 48% more costly than pods. The price to performance is terrible and could only be justified if you also consider external factors like their sustainability practices and the donation of all profits to coral reef restoration. Not discussing price seems like a huge gap to me.
- I was disappointed that he only personally compared and tested washing performance against a pod and the promoted powder, rather than also evaluating a traditional powder. Could he have replicated and compared the subpar performance reported by others?
- I would have assumed that, if the pre-rinse is supposed to get hot, the heater would run until it reaches the temperature target. Is it normal for a unit to simply not care? Last I had done reading on this, whether to attach to the hot or cold side is actually a contentious issue, mostly around the gas vs. induction-based heating costs in water heaters, in addition to temperature losses in the pipes. If the pre-wash expects hot water, then that’s an extra point for the hot side backers. I guess one should always check their manual to determine best-practice on the purge and line placement.
It feels like his channel suddenly changed to go into "let's make some money", carefully packaged in a "non-profit / charity" deal.
Maybe I'm just overly pessimistic.
Not sure if water can be introduced to bind the press, or maybe some other material.
Or did they not test the "putting some powder into the prewash" thing and so it was just "powder released all at once" vs "tablet released all at once".
Even there I'd expect some mild improvement from the powder mixing more easily than a plastic wrapped tablet (though maybe if the content inside is liquid this factor is reversed?).
Does this mean the big corps do have some chemical advantage that cancels out the crappy delivery mechanism?
Or does it mean that a mechanical spray prewash step isn't meaningfully improved by chemicals in most circumstances?
I was more alarmed by the wrappers being plastic. I had assumed they were some clever biodegradable thing but they're not.
So, even if they had equal cleaning performance, economically the powder would come ahead.
As it turns out, the 1/6th-as-expensive powder does an even better job than the pods, making the powder an even more obvious choice
(Unless you really value the handling convenience of using a pod and were willing to accept poorer results at a higher expense)
Namely, (spoiler) he finds some schematics in the door that would have informed his analysis prior. The fact he didn't just say, "hey you might have this in your door and could be helpful,..." And then proceed to do the analysis with the full information provided from the data.
Secondly, the purging test only compares hot water and "cold" water, and doesn't actually test the duration to get hot water to temperature. That is, is the 25s it takes to get up to temp matter? From the timings in the video it does, but it just felt like he was comparing purging and not, instead of hot water vs cold water.
Thirdly, hows do these advice change for newer models? Surely the dishwasher companies know some of this and can make things better.
I will be taking some of this practices to my dishwasher, but it is a newer Bosch model, and I would imagine I need to do some research to understand what is applicable to my dishwasher.
One aspect I like about it is that they have a fragrance-free variant, and even the "fragrance" one is not too bad. A second aspect I like is that it's biodegradable, et cetera. So a bit lighter on the environment, I hope, and the SDS is prominently available on the website.
I think another thing which is under-appreciated is that you need to know how to do the basic cleaning chores for your dishwasher-- for example if it has a filter, learn to clean it! Otherwise its ability to clean will probably be compromised.
That way you prevent polluting drink water with microplastics.
But you can buy a large box of generic and very cheap no-bullshit pods at Costco, and simply put two or even three of them in a load.
If you're going the multi-pod route, you can put one in the dispenser and one or more right in with the dishes.
powder deploys during rinse and wash. pods deploy only during wash (or only rinse if people put the pods into the tray, which is common)
And the dishwashers are designed with a hardness index in the hopper . you're supposed to line up the soap with your local hardness level to avoid residue.
I'm not sure if my machine even has a hardness marking, but when I used liquid dishwasher soap, I simply filled up the compartment every time.
As to the cost, yes it's 3X, but if you're reading this and you have a Costco membership, it's still a rounding error.
Pods just make life simpler and cleaner (no messy powders and gunky liquids in the soap cabinet), which is why I even have a dishwasher in the first place.
YMMV. Based on the earlier videos, I did switch back to powder, and I did follow the steps of putting some powder in the main compartment for the pre-wash. And i did try several powders.
Yet, none of the powders were anywhere near as good as the tablet we use.
It also doesn't contain any nasty chemicals, unlike several of the powders[1].
So we went back to our tablets. It might cost slightly more, but hardly a significant expense by any stretch.
Now, there might be some powders that work better which aren't available here in Norway. But I gotta work with what I got.
[1]: https://www.forbrukerradet.no/siste-nytt/test-av-oppvaskmidd...
At least in the US my experience has been the reverse of that. Several of the companies seem to have used the pods as an excuse to increase the number of chemicals that require chemical burn labels on the packaging and switch "Best By" dates to very literal "Use By" dates. With those pods, there's a thin water-soluble plastic that is also prone to melting at the posted expiration dates as all that is between you and second or third degree chemical burns.
No thanks. I worked food service in High School and had more than enough Chemistry classes in college to have too much healthy respect for chemical burn notices to trust any of the pods at this point. (Especially as someone who lives alone and will almost never use an entire package of pods before "Use By" dates.)
I haven't tried powders, but I did go back to liquid detergents even though there's only about one option left on store shelves where I shop which have now devoted so much space to the wasteful plastic tubs of the pods.
The solution might be to put powder in the pre-wash tray and a pod in the dispenser. Or you could cut the pods and split the powder between the prewash and the dispenser.
I know they exist in the commercial realm, but I'm not 100% certain the wife is ready for a Hobart machine in the kitchen ...
I used to just use the Kirkland pods and they worked fine too. The reason I started using powder in prewash is to get any loose fat dissolved so that it doesn’t clog over a period of time, not sure if that’s a valid concern. And yes, I do run hot water before starting the dishwasher.
I (as is common for many middle-class South Africans) have a domestic worker who cleans the house, and in general you just have to accept that domestic workers will tend to use quite a bit more cleaning products than is necessary. At least with tablets, they will always use a set amount.
It's not their money that they're needlessly wasting and the thing not being clean is a more immediately noticeable problem with their work than you finding you're spending a lot more than usual on cleaning products.
It also wouldn't work to try give them a budget on cleaning products as then you're encouraging them to skimp on using enough so they get more money in their pocket.
Although our domestic worker is a lovely person who I help out as much as I can, at the end of the day she has limited skills and education, so can't demand very much of a salary, hence why she and many others in her position is a domestic worker.
When you're the one who does all the cleaning yourself and pay for the products you use, you'll try find the amount to use that definitely gets the job done, but isn't needlessly wasteful.
I also like the convenience of the tablets, you don't have to think about the amount or possibly making a mess or pouring too much powder in, etc.
Where I live this feature is called hot fill, I believe, and a lot of dishwashers don’t even support it. For those that do support its still generally not recommended to use it since the dishwasher now can’t do any rinsing with cold water, which is not only wasteful but I’ve heard the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher.
But if you do hook it up to hot water (which is a lot more common in the US, I think) this makes a lot of sense.
In this particular case, it's spending 40 minutes of my life on something that could be explained in 4 sentences.
there are a lot of YT vids that can be summed up essentially in 2 sentences and I don't need to see 4 ads first.
YT's actual AI summary is useless, arguably net negative
"This video explores dishwasher detergent, focusing on a new powder formulation. The creator details the science behind effective dishwashing, including pre-wash cycles and water temperature. Independent testing results comparing the new powder to leading pods are revealed."
Also I should add Gemini (the app) is able to access YT transcripts most of the time, so sometimes I'd just paste the link and ask for a tldr. One of the few reasons to go for Gemini app, not google ai studio.
That said, Technology Connections is worth watching just because videos are very pleasant, it's probably my favorite YT subscription right now.
On the page it shows an extra TLDR button near the like button.
You can change the prompt to modify how the summary looks and has an optional mode with links to specific timestamps.
This video explores dishwasher detergent, focusing on a new powder formulation. The creator details the science behind effective dishwashing, including pre-wash cycles and water temperature. Independent testing results comparing the new powder to leading pods are revealed.
I've noticed that they all seem to not give away too much so you still have to watch the video to get the conclusion. It makes sense why they do this for creators, but I do agree it would be awesome to just read the conclusion on many of these.
Oh summer child, they do that because they'd serve less ads.
Heavy Duty + Hot Wash doesn’t usually work. Doesn’t finish washing.
Heavy Duty + Sani Rinse doesn’t usually work. Weird residue issues for entire top rack.
Heavy Duty + Hot + Sani doesn’t work. Both of the above issues at once!
But, as it turns out —
Normal + Hot + Sani does work, perfectly, repeatedly.
The takeaway from the latest video for me is that the options aren’t Boolean on/off flags for different cycle-specific parameters, the cheap U.S. rental dishwasher comprehensively alters the entire program based on which total set of options are selected in non-intuitive ways.
So I have to use Normal not Heavy, Hot Wash and Sani-Rinse, or my wash cycle doesn’t wash properly. Which is absurd and obnoxious, but TIL, and suddenly I’ve had two consecutive loads of dishes come out clean for the first time in a year of trying.
No, the pods didn’t work either, as it turns out my dishwasher doesn’t reach the “enzymatic cleaning” temperatures off my rental’s barely-120F water using Hot Wash alone. No, the filter isn’t dirty. Yes, it drains fine. Yes, I’ve run cleaning cycles with several cleaning powders. Yes, run the tap to hot. Etc etc.
TLDR for the entire video: If your dishwasher isn’t cleaning fully, even if you use maximum powder or pods or cleaning it, make sure you’ve tried counterintuitive combinations with Light/Normal instead of Heavy, or Sani Rinse to improve the wash cycle, etc. Ruling out unlikely combos because they seem illogical may prevent you from finding a working set. (And if you’re using a powder formulated by anyone who sells colorful dishwasher pods, it’s probably designed to be less effective than the powder in their pods.)
The worst thing by far about the pods though is the smell. I don’t know why anyone would want to eat off a fragranced dish but that is the vast majority of the market I guess.
In terms of powder I use seventh generation fragrance free and I have no issues with it.
It's good to know there's another HN poster out there like me who doesn't mind using Electron.
Business opportunity something something AI
What to look for is any powder or powder-filled pod with a) no AEs and b) does contain amylase and protease , two food-eating enzymes that are often omitted for who knows why.
365 Whole Foods brand pods are my go-to
Without rinse aid your dishes will never be even remotely dry unless you manually wipe them dry yourself.
> next, rinse aids. use them. this isn't a scam.
I'll trust the dishwasher expert until there's some proper citations.
You have to realize that every time you sip a glass or eat off a surface that's provided by a commercial entity, you're getting items that have come in contact with industrial appliances that dispense rinse aid.
I have a difficult time believing that something so ubiquitous is as harmful as you claim, but I'm open to being convinced.
what does that even mean?
Any citations here?
Edit: i see the linked pubmed in a child comment now. But it seems to be not in humans, so saying it "damages your gut" is not an appropriate conclusion.
After your weld, I hope you consider replacing all rubber with silicone, and add lubrication to at least an annual list.
The hinges broke because someone leaned on the door with their full weight while it was open. The grease on the hinge pins was perfectly okay too.
Ariston used to be a quality company.
Simply changing back to powder completely stopped the error and the leaking and this was in a 1 year old dishwasher
Grocery floorspace that was once primarily staples and whole foods is mostly now junkfood.
Proper razors have been replaced with disposables.
Skincare & toothpaste products contain sodium laureth sulfate , which lathers well, but causes mouth sores and skin irritation.
Letting consumers choose usually ends up optimizing superficial and sometimes harmful traits.
> Skincare & toothpaste products contain sodium laureth sulfate , which lathers well, but causes mouth sores and skin irritation.
This reminds me of how some of my house guests will accidentally splash water all over the bathroom counter and even the mirror when they wash up in the morning. I don’t say anything, to be polite, but they clearly lack technique lol.
This works for me:
0. store the dishwasher powder (box) under sink.
1. Open dishwasher door
2. grab box, place OVER the opened door.
3. dispense powder into cartridge in door (with spoon, tilting box, etc)
4. put spoon back in box OR fully tilt box back upright. “Crumbs” will drop onto the door, that’s OK.
5. move box back under sink.
Even if I was messy, I personally couldn’t make myself spend 5x on pods to avoid cleaning crumbs under the sink once a month. When i think of convenience i think of a dishwasher saving me hours every month. Not saving 10 seconds a month to wipe crumbs under the sink. :-)
We clearly all have different preferences and ideas of “convenience”. I respect that.
With a pod there is no technique to be improved. They just work, every single time.
The thing about Hank Green is that he has been doing this sort of stuff (good things) for long enough time that I don't have trouble believing that this stuff a: pays fair and not over inflated salaries, and b: all the profits really do go to charitable causes.
I also don't think Alec is getting paid per sale, maybe he got some kickback for the consultancy, no idea. He would be obligates to disclose if he was getting a kickback, so I guess well see. If he is lying about such an affiliation, these things have a good chance of bubbling up especially for a channel the size of his.
This is because the profit margin on them is much, much fatter. Miele still makes powder if you want to use theirs.
I.e., he started off with all his things clean and in dishwasher A. As he used things he pulled them from A and put them in B. When B is nearly full and A is nearly empty, run B, move any remaining items from A to B. Then B becomes the storage space and A becomes the place to put the dirty items.
There will be instances when both are just full and you still end up visible filth, but even then, you at least have to go just once into clear-out mode. It works out great so far. If it didn't... well, I guess I'd need to buy a third one ;-)
I find pods messy (they can stick together and break open) and powder simpler. Powder I store in a glass container and pour directly from that; never have to touch it directly. Occasionally I’ll have to push a bit of lose powder into the sink during transfer from box to container.
Powder is cheaper. Sure I save pennies per load but I don’t know why I would waste pennies.
Pods are overdosed for my washer and water and leave residue. I don’t want to use more of them. Powder lets me dose a load with much more precision anyway.
I did find the Waitrose one and it was going to be my next buy, but my local didn't have it and I never got around to ordering it before Sainsburys came back in stock. Interesting that it's now cheaper, maybe I'll check again...
We have the Finish tabs with the red ball in the middle (that's what our Costco carries, so that's what we use). I just break off on one side of the red ball and then crumble that up for the pre-wash. It usually breaks off super easily into three parts: The remaining tab with the red ball attached and two smaller pieces. If you rub the smaller pieces against each other, they break up super easily into powdered form. No cutting required.
https://gist.github.com/abdusco/118a6a3ab41a0a1d2a5f8813f789...
> youtube_transcript.py 'https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAX2_mPr9W8' | llm 'give me keypoints, ignore promotions'
Certainly! Here are the key points from the detailed discussion about dishwasher detergents, washing cycles, and hot water use:
1. **Dishwasher Detergent Basics:**
- Most dishwashers have a detergent dispenser designed to release detergent in two doses: a smaller pre-wash dose and a larger main wash dose.
- The pre-wash helps remove easily dissolvable food residues before the main wash.
- Oils and fats do not dissolve well in plain water; putting some detergent in the pre-wash water helps emulsify and remove these soils early.
2. **Why Use Loose Powder Detergents:**
- Loose powders allow flexible dosing: users can adjust detergent amounts based on load dirtiness.
- Pre-dosed pods force a single, fixed dose which can be excessive or insufficient depending on the wash.
- The dispenser’s design supports splitting detergent dosing; powders are better aligned with this system than pods.
... you get the pointI'm not at my computer RN but I'll share it later.
Why?
I'm an educated citizen who likes to have some evidence-based sources to learn about surprising claims people make. Especially when their claims read like pseudoscientific babble that has little or no basis in reality.
It’s cheap enough to try it and see if it helps but don’t feel obligated to use it if it doesn’t.
For every cup of vodka (40 or 60% can’t remember, but prolly 40. Though scientifically 60% would be better) I add 1 to 2 tsp of powdered citric acid. Takes a surprisingly long time to dissolve so you’ll get a quick workout shaking it. I’ve added blue food coloring before to make it more visible in the dispenser to see the level but it’s not necessary at all so I usually skip it.
I make it in a 1 liter bottle which will last a couple months. We have a Bosch dishwasher, refill it… every couple of weeks maybe? I’m not the only one filling it. We do 1-2 loads of dishes a day (4 kids who can’t ever seem to find the cup they JUST used. Probably a parenting problem)
I have no idea if that’s helpful. But I did just lookup a cost by fluid volume- I live in a state with high alcohol tax rates and my cost per fluid oz of my DIY rinse aid is around $0.19 (mostly from alcohol, per fluid oz of citric acid is less than one cent. ) for reference, the small bottle of Jet-dry is $0.58/flOz.
in reality, reducing amount of powder won't change much most of the time, because majority of cleaning happens due to physical action of (hot) water. there were multiple times when I was forgetting to put detergent and dishes went out clean. it mostly makes difference for some very dry/backed on stuff.
I also found a Python library for fetching YouTube video transcripts, but some issue mentioned that they got banned, so out of caution, I implemented my summary script as a JavaScript bookmarklet instead. It will probably break on the next YouTube update, so I am not sure how useful it is. Also, you have to set your own API key (and maybe URL). I used Groq (not to be confused with Grok), because it is free and very fast.
javascript:(function(){
var GROQ_API_KEY = "YOUR_API_KEY_HERE";
var btn = [...document.querySelectorAll('button')].find(b => b.textContent.trim() === 'Show transcript');
btn.click();
function checkTranscriptAvailable(){
var transcript = document.querySelector('[target-id="engagement-panel-searchable-transcript"]').innerText;
console.log("transcript:", transcript.slice(0, 50));
var length = transcript.replace(/\s/g, '').length;
if (length > 100){
fetch("https://api.groq.com/openai/v1/chat/completions", {
method: "POST",
headers: {
"Authorization": "Bearer " + GROQ_API_KEY,
"Content-Type": "application/json"
},
body: JSON.stringify({
"model": "openai/gpt-oss-120b",
"messages": [
{
"role": "user",
"content": [
{
"type": "text",
"text": "Briefly summarize this transcript:\n\n" + transcript,
},
]
}
]
})
})
.then(res => res.json())
.then(data => alert(data.choices[0].message.content))
.catch(err => alert(err));
}else{
setTimeout(checkTranscriptAvailable, 1000);
}
};
checkTranscriptAvailable();
})();my dishwasher manual breaks down each program. pre-wash exists only in half of programs
In which case my comment still stands for those who also haven’t watched the whole video, which is probably a fair amount of people
His argument is that appliance manufacturers are trying to simplify their lineup by making models that would work in homes without a dedicated circuit (15 or 20 amp). Although I can't think of a better argument that still doesn't quite sound right to me. The NEC has required dedicated circuits for dishwashers for quite a while now and IIRC that requirement has been for a 20 amp circuit for a few decades. Even though you typically only see 15 amp receptacles, kitchens have required 20 amp circuits for somewhere north of forty years.
I think a lot of his video is simply based on testing with crappy Whirlpool and AEG dishwashers. There's a reason why Bosch (and these days LG) dishwashers are pretty much universally recommended.
the hot water can damage the water softener in your dishwasher
As heated air drying (in the US) has fallen out of favor, hot rinse water will help things dry faster. To that end my Bosch dishwasher has an option to increase the temperature of the rinse water.
i don't have 40 minutes to watch a long-form video essay about detergent.
give me the gist, which based on context is that powder works better and is cheaper
The gist you took away is not quite right because of course you didn’t watch it.
Why does everything have to be summarized? If you want to see the content watch the content. Technology Connections videos are interesting, entertaining (to nerds at least) and a lot of effort goes into them.
Watch them at 1.5 speed if you’d like.
Or don’t watch them at all.
But the “give me a transcript because I want to watch but don’t want to watch” thing is so annoying.
YouTube also provides a transcript on the desktop version of the site, by the way. So this entire thread is pointless.
I don't care that Technology Connections is the perfect blend of campy midwestern technical pedantry, substantive detail, great editing, understated humor. It must undergo machine digestion, its humanity stripped, before being fed to me as a flat slurry. This way, I can optimize my consumption of slurry without ever encountering any of that pesky 'human spirit.'
Because that is optimal.
This! I mean, at least get all of the low-hanging fruit with a quick, needle-spray pass of hot water. And to do so while the plates are still fresh so that stuff hasn’t had the time to dry.
Like, we’re talking about powering through table settings for a half-dozen people at a family dinner in less than 60 seconds. Plates, bowls, cups, silverware; everything done in about 10s per person. This isn’t any kind of a deep scrub; it’s removing everything that will come off easily as fast and expediently as possible before the dishes go into the washer.
Reading the Conclusion is also helpful. Says nothing about damaging your gut.
15, dishwasher manufacturers can't assume the dishwasher is on a 20.
Trying to run a resistive heater on the same circuit as a fridge compressor without tripping leans towards very conservative wattage
Kitchens in general have required 20 amp general purpose circuits since at least the early 80s. However the NEC (but not the Canadian equivalent) allows for 15 amp duplex receptacles on 20 amp circuits so home builders looking to save a few pennies often use those. Besides, there are few if any, residential appliances out there that have NEMA 5-20 plugs. Then again hardwiring dishwashers was pretty common up until recently.
post world war 2 consumer choice culture in the US led to people buying cheaper clothing but varying their outfits every day and cleaning them (with copious availability of water) with less intensity.
once these patterns are established in the market, they become more like customary and it's what consumers expect of their appliances, detergents, etc.
Therefore I stand by my assertion that if you refuse to learn the details of what your dishwasher actually does then you will probably be using it badly.
I know this type of person very well. They always have some reductionist approach to things, where for them, the expensive stuff is mostly marketing with added bells-and-whistles and largely works the same. My experience is that this isn't quite right. Some brands do have a premium that is more related to style/status but if you buy some seriously engineered stuff it will work much better most of the time.
For reference I'm pretty cheap too but try to be pragmatic. My fridge is a $600 Frigidaire (AEG/Electrolux) top freezer unit. The main selling point was that another youtuber (an appliance repair guy by trade) pointed out that it still has a mechanical timer. They get mocked by appliance sales droids but the top freezer design is significantly more efficient than the alternatives and the lack of electronics mean that you're more likely to be able to repair it.
I agree that KitechnAid is more on the higher-end side, he even said himself that it's kind of a premium device. It doesn't surprise me, because at some point in your life you want to stop with the frugality shenanigans and just want stuff to work if you can afford them.
To be clear that's not a critic, I tend to be as cheap as can be reasonable as well, it's generally a decent way to proceed, to avoid overpaying for useless over-marketed, over-engineered stuff. I'm just trying to give some context but I think we are in agreement anyway and I do believe anyone who watches him long enough will get the gist of it at some point.
I hate when people use that term the G in MIG stands for Gas. If you are not running a Gas (argon, CO2...) it isn't Mig. There are flux core wires that are commonly used and called Mig, but they are not Mig (unless there is also a gas flow - this isn't uncommon) and have very different weld properties.
I've also got one of those wee inverter stick welders that's about the size of two VHS tapes, and that is an incredible bit of kit.
Alec also mentions this briefly in the linked video; if manufacturers could avoid the cost of a latching mechanism, they absolutely would. Its presence means a pre-wash cycle exists.
Maybe this is why the quick wash is always enough for my dishes.
I think we both grew up in households that did full manual washes most of the time even though the dishwasher was there; it was reserved for special occasions like Thanksgiving or Christmas when there really was a lot of dishes.
But are you saying you force yourself to eat all your food, even if you are full or don’t like it, just to avoid scraping it into the trash bin?
I regularly use things to clean that I am more worried about, such as bleach, acetone, turpentine and the likes…
Anyway like I said I doubt it's a huge deal. Washing liquid isn't _designed_ to be boiled but I certainly hope the engineers consider the possibility that it might get boiled, and avoid things that would be toxic in that case...
I don't have a theoretical explanation, especially one that won't be batted away by another theoretical explanation.
I just feel like there's better ways to clean your coffee maker than putting dishwasher detergent/powder/whatever in it and running a coffee making cycle. Sounds like a horrible* idea.
* I should offer a "why" - off the top of my head: if it rinsed out that quick, why does the dishwasher take so long?
The reason why the dishwasher takes so long is that it takes time to break down the grime. Same in the coffee maker. There is a deep crevice in the coffee compartment that cannot be cleaned mechanically because you can’t really reach it (clearly a design flaw if you ask me). But remaining coffee tends to build up there and over time it affects the taste. Using detergent and letting it sit overnight breaks down this oily residue and leaves it shiny as new. Then you take the whole thing apart, gaskets and all and thoroughly rinse it. If I put the coffee maker into the dishwasher it would be the exact same chemicals (ok, at 70 instead of 100 degrees Celsius) plus less thorough rinsing. But no one would object.
There is some research (see my other comment) hinting that industrial level use can be harmful (households dilution levels are probably fine).
I find it easier to just use the powder.
The point of this series of videos is that for many people they don't.
Depends on how you have it set. My current and previous hot water heaters had thermostats which permitted adjusting the temperature.
They also had warning labels on them about scalding water. If it's hot enough to scald, it's hot enough.
The dishwasher also doesn't need to heat up a "bulk" amount of water, just the amount of water used for washing the current load of dishes.
If you're washing dishes and someone is, or has recently, taken a shower; or someone is, or has recently, done laundry; or someone is, or has recently shaved or done any of the other dozen things that draw from the hot water heater, then the water is already hot and available and doesn't need to be heated all the way from cold by the dishwasher. A properly insulated hot water heater can retain heat for quite some time.
Also the size of the heating element is irrelevant. What matters is the power dissipated. Most dishwashers in the US will use only about 900 watts of power even when plugged into a circuit that supports 1500 watts. In the EU they often hit 3000 watts. Even when just heating up a gallon or two of water that makes a huge difference.
It’s not like the engineers for heaterless dishwashers are just too stupid to realize there’s an obvious workaround for having to purge the line before filling the basin. Especially when the performance is so much measurably better when you do it.
Like I said though, it’s a guess. It’s also possible efficiency certifications ding you for the excess water use.
All I would add to what you've said is that when my Bosch does include a pre-wash in a cycle, it checks how dirty the water is and only drains the pre-wash water if is dirty. If the dishes haven't caused the water to become dirty, it keeps the same water for the main wash cycle.
Also, I want to expand upon my first paragraph a little: I'm not having a dig at anyone who doesn't understand their dishwasher. I am just venting/observing that the world is filled with all kinds of different people and reminding myself that I shouldn't make assumptions about people as often as I do.
I've had this realisation many times, but it doesn't hurt to have it again. Communicating with people is lot quicker and easier when I remember that.
On the other side, you see appliance companies responding to that and shrinking their manuals of useful content because they assume you might just go watch YouTube videos instead. Some of the better ones might even include a QR code or 3 to officially produced YouTube videos, though so far that still seems rare.
Even in this video is the surprise reveal that something that used to be very common in manuals, full cycle timing diagrams, was "hidden" on a data sheet attached inside the door itself. Admittedly, it's great in that case to know that should that model be taken to repair that a repair shop might find that data sheet easily without having to search manufacturers' websites, but on the other hand some of those diagrams would be quite useful to me if I was the user of that machine.
my dishwasher after few months suddenly instead of filling water and starting wash cycle initiated some kind of fill & drain cycle that went for a while without going into wash mode.
i called in service. they replaced pump, solenoid. talked with manufacturer directly, swapped a couple of main boards. it made dishwasher snap out of it.
few months later it started again. this time i allowed it to do whatever it was doing. after 15 minutes it started to wash.
over the time i noticed that dishwasher does this water cycling every few months and adds extra time to estimated program duration.
about once a year after asking a few questions if sprayer hands/filters/etc are clean, it will add 2 hours to wash cycle.
none of it described in manual, manufacturer service personal and "Factory support" that service talk to know about it (maybe they do by now. they didn't few years ago)
For example, he kept on saying that pods are not better in previous videos, but in the study he presented in this video, it showed that pods are performing significantly better than powders in every category. The study (which was not linked and I couldn't find it) was sponsored by a powder maker which the video recommends, but even this study showed just on par results with pods.
He also specifically calls out Great Value brand powder as one he finds to be consistently on par with pod performance
At the end of the day, it'd have been much better for this community if we could have just gained access to a proper study comparing different cleaning options and learn from it instead of watching a 40 minutes video that doesn't say much and doesn't link to the study which is briefly mentioned there.
Problem is, that most dishwashers have a prewash and a main wash. By the time the prewash is finished and the main wash starts, the water in the supply line will have cooled off quite a bit.
i also had in past machines from 5 different manufacturers. none of them had mechanisms that facilitate 2 releases or pre-wash compartments
did you check the manual? I think in a previous video he mentioned that for machines like that it was stated in manual to add powder for prewash directly in the machine.
Doesn't match my experience. My colleagues and I are able to turn on or off the gas supply to our houses at will.
I had a seismic shutoff installed at my gas meter and the plumber who installed it had no problem turning off the gas and turning it back on when he was done. (and then turning it off again to demonstrate to me how it worked).
He re-lit the water heater pilot light before he left. The gas company was not involved at all.
This just happens to be the one that affected me. Like modern gas water heaters that have electric ignition instead of pilot lights, because the one serious reason to have gas water heaters is that they work when there is no electricity. Now it’s just a price distinction.
I discovered the unexpected value of a YMCA membership when my hot water was offline for a while.
I recently switched to an SLS free toothpaste but it was really hard to track one down that still had flouride in it!
> it was really hard to track one down that still had flouride in it
Please check what people say before you throw a rant at them.
I don’t force myself to eat all my food, but will typically do so as I tend to serve less than I might need and add a bit more after if I’m still hungry.
What I mean is that while still eating I (kind of pedantically) normally scrape my plate quite clean such that there is nothing to rinse, like every grain of rice for example, in the interests of not having to rinse off anything before it goes in the dishwasher. This is the thing I haven’t bothered to ask my wife to also do.
Someone that just wants to wash dishes better shouldn't be forced to watch a 40 minute video to learn how. It doesn't mean they want slurry.
Or to put it another way: Imagine you had to watch a video essay to check the weather forecast. It would suck, even if they're good essays. Even moreso if you already have other essays you want to watch.
He dies and then Rosebud.
The moment some long form content comes out we are all TikTok kids who want a five second summary.
Never mind the fact that YouTube provides a compete transcription that you can copy/paste and dump into an LLM, making this entire thread, as I mentioned before, pointless.
The people asking for a summary are lazy people who want to be spoon fed trivia dopamine hits.
Just a waste of copper and a beaker really.
But also helps avoid the case where your coffee maker trips the breaker shared with your refrigerator and you don't notice until the food in the refrigerator is warm. (which was a risk in my previous apartment - the counter circuits were shared with the refrigerator). I think it makes sense to have it as a separate circuit.
> But also helps avoid the case where your coffee maker trips the breaker shared with your refrigerator and you don't notice until the food in the refrigerator is warm.
Didn’t notice the coffee was cold?
Overall, given the massive fears of a fridge failure, which can happen beyond just electrical failures, very very very few people have any kind of monitoring/alarming for this event. You’d think that would be the first requirement.
Ouch. Code here (Ontario) is that not only does the fridge need a separate circuit, but counter outlets need two separate circuits: each socket on the duplex outlet is required to be on a separate circuit (although multiple outlets can all share the same two circuits, but you're supposed to alternate top and bottom).
Of course, if your home is older than I am or it's a handyman special, all bets are off. If I run the microwave while someone is vacuuming in another part of the house it'll trip the breaker.
It sounds like this law is outdated.
For example in Australia a standard house circuit is 10 Amps, but because it's at 240V we can get 2400 Watts (realistically more like 2300) out of a _standard_ wall outlet that is in every room of your house.
The electrical code (NEC) has started moving towards requiring 20 amp circuits in other rooms and more 20 amp circuits in kitchens.
Your standard home has a supply of 3 phase power @ 35A (southern Germany) or 63A (northern and western Germany), I think only the former GDR is at standard 3x25A, because like in many former Communist countries they had to save on expensive copper and aluminium, and since a lot of the GDR was heated by steam-based central district heating systems, you didn't need that much power anyway.
It's for comfort and convenience.
That's EXACTLY what he's doing, right? Get the transcript, pipe to an LLM, determine if it's worth his time. You're on HN, we like to use scripts to automate those sorts of things.
Nobody is demanding a summary from the OP. The AUDIENCE MEMBER went out of his way to determine if the content is worth his time. Its no different than checking reviews before you watch a movie
That is okay.
Better than okay, learning is a good thing. And it's extremely impossible to watch every quality video.
This almost made a mess when the sink was clogged and the dishwasher tried to pump the water out but had nowhere to go.
Natural gas is mostly methane, which is lighter than air and easily escapes most structures.
And of course they'll be setups that use solar heating or are programmed to heat by time of day.
This is all down in the weeds though because a dishwasher does not use very much water.
i also went to american lg website and checked manual of cheapest dishwasher that they have. it doesn't instruct to run water either. it says that if water is not hot enough cycle will run longer.
anticipating comments that LG is not american enough, i went to GE and checked manual of cheapest (349) dishwasher. it doesn't instruct to run tap either. it does say just like LG that if water not hot enough, cycles that use hot water will take more time (because water needs to be heated)
as a concrete example, the video has a section in it where he shows that his doesn't so any sensing - hot or cold water have exactly the same timing on the heater's use (and resulting water temperature graphs).
so like. I agree with you that it should be true, it's simple and cheap to implement and it obviously works better. unfortunately it's not a sane reality for tens (hundreds?) of millions of people.
cheapest GE dishwasher that i found now - $349 heats water. of course, for video he could go and find some ancient dishwasher that doesn't heat water just to make a point (or maybe he has a broken one ? ), but i think it will be outlier today.
a.) I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that most countries will place limits similar to the NEC's 80% rule.
b.) There are other high current draw devices in a dishwasher that will have to run concurrently like the water pumps.
Same with things like electric kettles. You're not going to find 1,800 watt kettles in the US even though they're designed for circuits rated at that. A quick peek at the kettles available in Australia show that most top out at 2,200 watts for the same reasons.
In the context of a dishwasher 240V would only get you more powerful heaters than you could run in the US if the circuits were rated at more than 10 amps. Voltage isn't the issue.
A UK circuit on the other hand would fix everything. It has the same number of amps (or maybe more), but double the voltage.
The problem isn't purely amps or volts, but in general home circuits tend to have a similar number of amps, and higher power usually goes hand in hand with higher voltage. That's the sense in which voltage fixes the problem. A US appliance staying well within amp limits has a lot less power than a UK appliance staying well within amp limits.
If that requires reading a manual, or carefully timing the actual length of each wash cycle, or making a recording of each of those wash cycles so that you can work out how long they fill for and how many pre-washes and rinses that they each do then so be it.
The airgap causes the pump to be physically incapable of backfeeding the drinking water supply with dishwasher waste
my wife once decided to dump into garbage disposal a bunch of uncooked broccoli at once. it clogged garbage disposal and drain. when i tried to unclog it with plunger it backed into dishwasher (was hooked directly to garbage disposal bypassing airgap). took me hour to get everything out of dishwasher.
You put two large detergent containers in (one for whites and one for colours) and then forget about them. The machine reminds you when you’re running low and allows you to reorder more thru the app.
I have no idea if it’s cheaper or not, but anecdotally they feel like they last a long time. Ultimately, I don’t care, because of the convenience and the fact I know the machine is working out the correct dose per wash (the machine has a touchscreen interface that allows you to state what’s in the wash: T-shirts, denim, towels, etc. the level of soiling, etc. Then it works out the temperature, duration, drying time, and correct detergent type and dosage)
I looked at Miele, saw the requirement for using their refill containers (TwinDos†). Noticed an option for using not theirs as a fallback but it all seemed a bit convoluted.
Then I took a look at some high-ish end LG and they had sort of the same principle (EZDispense††), except the dispenser sits like a usual tray that you fill in with regular off-the-shelf liquid stuff, and then you're good for a while. The whole wifi/app stuff is entirely optional, the machine is fully functional through the panel without the app. So I got that one, very happy so far.
† https://www.mieleusa.com/c/laundry-tech-washing-machines-aut...
†† https://www.lg.com/in/magazine/easing-laundry-with-ezdispens...
Also, the Miele powdered detergent, in my personal opinion, sucks. And it leaves some residue behind. Yuck.
That dishwasher was great and lasted over 20 years. The previous owners had definitely abused it and never cleaned it. I repaired it and had about the best dishwasher for a few more years. Eventually the main logic board went out (can't blame it too much, had electrical issues that killed a few things) and a replacement board was going to cost a few hundred dollars in parts even from questionable third party sellers. Seemed to be a good bit to sink on what was a highly abused >20 year old washing machine at the time.
https://www.lg.com/us/washcombo-all-in-one
I think long term, having two "all-in-one" combo washer and driers would make way more sense than separate washing and drying units. But the price for functionality just isn't there yet.
Very pleased with the experience personally. I am very happy to trade not having to transfer the laundry in the middle with it simply being done when I get back to it a few hours later. YMMV.
LG washing machines. And I think Miele washing machines as well
Here is what I got from Gemini:
Bosch does not refer to their dishwashers as having a "heat pump" in the same way the term is used for HVAC systems; rather, the part is often called a circulation motor and heating assembly or a combined "heater/pump" unit by users and repair sites. Bosch dishwashers use a flow-through water heater (a type of resistive element) to heat the water and a different, non-refrigerant-based system for drying. How the Bosch System Works
Water Heating: All Bosch dishwashers use a flow-through water heater, which is a heating element integrated with the circulation pump. This system rapidly increases the water temperature to the required level. It uses electrical resistance, not the reverse-refrigeration cycle of a true heat pump.
Drying: Bosch dishwashers (especially the higher-end models with features like CrystalDry) typically do not use a separate heating element for drying. Instead, they rely on a process involving a stainless steel tub and a heat exchanger or a mineral-based drying technology (like Zeolith for CrystalDry) to condense moisture and wick it away from the dishes. This is an energy-efficient method of moisture removal, not active heat generation for drying.
Anything that moves heat from one area to another, not just evening them out but actually forcing the heat to move, counts as a heat pump. HVAC style, or peltier style, or other methods with tension or chemical reactions all count.
A combination heater and circulator does not do that. It is not a heat pump.
check your user manual. huge numbers of them tell you to run your nearby tap until it's hot before starting a cycle because of this exact reason. this is also part of the video, and it has been true for literally every washer I've lived with (I read essentially all manuals), including the "good" ones.
my dishwasher manual doesn't say to run tap. in fact it says "The dishwasher can be connected to a hot water supply for further economies. If the water is heated by for example, solar panels, this would be energy efficient. However, if your water is heated by electricity we would recommend connection to cold water. "
i also went to american lg website and checked manual of cheapest dishwasher that they have. it doesn't instruct to run water either. it says that if water is not hot enough cycle will run longer.
anticipating comments that LG is not american enough, i went to GE and checked manual of cheapest (349) dishwasher. it doesn't instruct to run tap either. it does say just like LG that if water not hot enough, cycles that use hot water will take more time (because water needs to be heated)
If you should be using them and aren’t, the detergent in the disks doesn’t work. With them (I live with hard water, though a home filter takes a lot of it out) the disks work quite well in my experience.
Older dryers (that needed a vent) were inefficient, but faster at drying. They constantly pumped damp, heated air out of the vent.
Modern condensing dryers keep the heat in the system for a more energy efficient drying cycle but the condensing process is slower.