Back in 2022, the Biden administration was flying immigrant family and children secretly at night to places like Chicago. I have a friend who worked at an airlines hired for this and it is reported in the news. However, no one seemed to care. https://nypost.com/2022/04/15/biden-administration-resumes-m...

It seems it's much easier to secretly bring people in than publicly try to remove them after it's done. Not surprising or shocking. The solution to "right" the situation could be amnesty, but that doesn't restore or build respect for the laws already on the books.

It makes no sense that habitual criminals are protected and not deported by the local government. I think if the local government worked with ICE to deport criminals, this probably wouldn’t be happening the way that it was.

I think the City of Chicago is totally ineffective at many many things like closing murder cases, keeping habitual criminals locked up, etc etc.

It’s sad that this has become a political discussion instead of an effort to fix all the horrible problems in the city.

It seems like the overwhelming majority of city population including local police doesn't support this, so go ahead and do something instead of crying on HN.

The agents actually attempted to pull over Ms. Galeano’s vehicle, but the male driver (with Galeano in the passenger seat) refused to stop despite the sirens and lights. The agents pursued the car, which sped into a shopping center, and Ms. Galeano fled the vehicle and ran into a daycare, attempting to barricade herself inside. She didn’t get all the way in and was arrested inside the vestibule. None of the kids witnessed the arrest.

Regardless of your thoughts on immigration and ICE, if a cop tries to pull you over, and instead you decide to speed off and barricade yourself inside a daycare, you’re probably going to get arrested.

To paraphrase a show TFA’s author introduced me to:

What are laws? We just don’t know.

You make it sound so reasonable when you say it like that. But here’s the thing: If you’re gonna die on the hill that “simply enforcing immigration laws” requires invading cities and detaining people without due process, everyday people are going to come to the conclusion that it might not be worth it. It’s wild how far you guys thought you could get with that phrasing.

Like at this point, y’all have done the Abolish ICE people a huge favor. It was much easier to call them anarchist weirdos when many people had never even seen an ICE officer much less had their lives affected by their activities. But now… well, unless conservatives do in fact succeed in ending elections (which I rank unlikely) I give it a >50% chance that ICE is abolished within 10 years.

Whether or not they deserve could be a matter of opinion that has no significance.

Says a lot about the audience of this site, I suppose.

https://www.nilc.org/resources/overview-immeligfedprograms/

There are food banks and stuff like that, but that's usually from charities.

Innocent people are being rounded up by a faceless secret police, violently, in a terrorising manner, and taken to detention centres, with their human rights abused at every stage, with no due process and their fate unknown. This is beyond reporting to the local police department.

That’s how most undocumented people in the country survive: by working for employers who are breaking the law.

In terms of undocumented individuals benefits, that’s a common and almost entirely false claim.

While it is a complicated space (because of State vs Federal), the vast majority of “Illegals” are not eligible for the vast majority of benefits in the United States, with the exception of some emergency services.

There are some exceptions for victims of human trafficking and there like.

If you want to dig in: https://www.nilc.org/resources/overview-immeligfedprograms/

I wonder if he has consulted with lawyers and authorities from all other 193 countries in the world regarding their laws?

> Or are you just saying that because you think you get to have a veto over every arrest?

Please don't cross-examine on HN. The guidelines make it clear we're trying for curious conversation here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Unfortunately, the chances of this happening are minuscule, even if the executive branch ever changes hands in the future. The other party is too moderate, and doesn't have the backbone or courage to see it through, nor the patience and attention to detail to get them all. They'll be tied up in subpoenas, testimonies in front of Congress, hearings, hearings about hearings... Meanwhile, the people (both in leadership and boots on the ground) who are doing this today will slink back to normal life. The ringleaders will slide into comfy roles in think tanks, corporate boards, and lobbying groups. The hired thugs will go back to working as mall security and bouncers, hoping nobody remembers the time they cosplayed as Bond villain footsoldiers.

Somehow I'm led to believe it's okay to move into any country and Bhutan's restrictions on visitors are a-okay in the same breath.

Canada's not far and it's not true there either.

These are worthless?

Notice this section: "Carry with you evidence of lawful entry or current lawful status in the United States if you have it."

https://www.nilc.org/resources/know-your-rights-expedited-re...

Edit: I went to Medellín, Colombia recently, and going through immigration, I said that I was there for my birthday. The officer then asked me, "That was May xxth?" I responded, "No, my birthday is August yyth." She handed it back and waived me through.

Anyone making a mistake with details will see greater scrutiny.

https://bsky.app/profile/unraveledpress.com

https://bsky.app/profile/djbyrnes1.bsky.social

https://bsky.app/profile/thetriibe.com

https://bsky.app/profile/prisonculture.bsky.social

For many of us that ship sailed a few years ago.

If they turn on themselves it will not be over immigration. This is the one issue where they are almost all in wild agreement. A massive, overwhelming majority of Republicans agree with these cruel treatment of immigrants[1].

They might disagree on the economy or tariffs or jobs or whatever, but there's no infighting here. They fully back this cruelty.

1: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/07/what-amer...

I live in Illinois. Since Republican governor Ryan gave chauffers licenses to undocumented immigrants (resulting in fatalities), it is certain that an Illinois license is worthless.

I had hoped that an ID issued by the U.S. Department of State would be a safeguard.

Perhaps not, but wise to obtain both forms, for the judge.

I am rapidly becoming convinced that large portions of the SV ecosystem are just anti-human as a base ideology.

Care to explain the distinction? They have authority of law?? haha It's terrorism. No crime, no warrant, no due process. Obviously it's not kidnapping by law, because no law applies to ICE.

The apartment building scene was a mass kidnapping of US citizens. They've shot US citizens for recording their actions with live bullets, pepper balls, and gas grenade launchers. They tear gassed kids on the playground, attacked a Halloween parade, the horrors are endless.

What numbers are you looking at?

For reference, FY25 budgets:

"CIA budget" (which isn't publicly split from the general IC top line authorizations): $73.4 B for NIP and $28.2 B for MIP https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF10524

ICE: $28.7 B (after OBBB increase) https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/big-...

DEA: $3.3 B https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024...

The law requires that law enforcement has a specific kind of warrant in order to enter a location without permission and detain somebody. This law is regularly being broken by agents. "Oh, they are illegal so whatever" is horrifying.

For example, while I’m aware that the Biden admin ended title 42, it had only been policy for a few years, ending this policy simply removes us to the Obama era. Although I certainly don’t intend to strawman what you are saying, Obama immigration certainly wasn’t chaotic and uncontrolled. These statements don’t comport with my reading of the facts, as well as inflation, since I understand this to be a global phenomenon. I am genuinely interested

There is credible theory (shared by a very balanced labor economist I follow) that the immigration crisis helped tame the inflation crisis, besides boosting the economy enough for a soft landing:

https://fortune.com/2024/04/12/immigration-inflation-economy...

Also some studies for and against this theory:

- https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WP/Issues/2025/01/10/Imm... (Finds inflation lowered.)

- https://www.dallasfed.org/research/economics/2025/0708 (No effect on inflation, but yes on GPD growth.)

Now, I'm not saying this was always Biden's plan, but the economics are not as straightforward as "employments vs inflation."

Remember that the GOP stopped immigration reform in Congress for many years, including killing the agreed-upon bipartisan immigration reform bill at Trump's behest during the election. If your theory is correct, that would have disqualified the GOP among those voters.

Anyone likely to be targeted by these thugs needs to be talking to local activist groups that know exactly what's happening first hand.

Offering armchair views that are clearly from a position of ignorance is yes, provable negative value.

Please just don't.

Edit: talked with a friend who's doing some activist work on this in his area. The advice is actually to avoid carrying your passport or similar, as if they detain you they'll just throw it away along with the rest of your belongings, and you'll have to go through the weeks long process of getting a new one.

And that's the happy case if they throw you in the van and let you out hours or a couple days later.

This article is explicitly reactive and says so itself! None of these documents mean just about anything anymore - yesterday it was A, today it is B, tomorrow it is C. The rule of law has broken down in America.

We've seen an entire national campaign about a man deported to a prison in a country he was being protected from. The administration has been caught with numerous citizens now. While arguing they have no requirement of due process and have a right to deport anyone anywhere they please.

There's not negative value, you should still do it and hope there's still someone to stop them somewhere in the process. But believing this is simply a matter of "getting your papers in order" or explaining how "this is a bad idea" to them is nuts... as if the Nazis ever cared about the papers. If a Nazi official wanted you gone, you were gone. That's how fascism works.

And before I hear anyone say "oh, please, Nazis, don't be irrational", Greg Bovino is effectively the commander-at-large of CBP. Today he did a Nazi salute in front of a crowd of people.

And that's what America is, just 10 months in. An authoritarian police state with a Gestapo that's rapidly escalating. With no one left to stop them, it seems, what with local LEO and the NG and SCOTUS and Congress all being in on the game.

You latched onto the nihilistic part, which I suppose isn’t surprising.

Even if he's just OK, doing a replacement-level competent job of being a governor dealing with a problem he himself did not have a hand in creating, this is his opportunity to demonstrate leadership during a crisis, and he's flubbing it. He's asking (we assume) for the highest job in the land, so he doesn't get to ask to be graded on a curve this time.

(Not a fan of Kat Abu, though).

You're literally saying the quiet part out loud.

So many people here are complaining that ICE is arresting US citizens, but you literally admit that they're interfering. And yes, it's illegal to "forcibly assault, resist, oppose, impede, intimidate, or interfere" with a federal officer. See https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/111

You can do up to 1 year in prison for minor offenses, or up to 20 for using weapons and causing injuries.

> In other words, the very valid "its' the economy stupid" theory would imply that if people can comfortable provide for themselves and their families, they'd be less bothered by what they saw as competition for jobs.

Have you not looked at Canada recently? They've done exactly what you're suggesting, and the result is a country that is now completely unaffordable for Canadians, with the median home price now over $800k. Is that the kind of future you want for Americans?

But what really makes me sad is how this mentality so quickly swept into the country to begin with. 30 years ago, the vast majority of Americans would be horrified at the thought of people being assaulted on the street in broad daylight, black-bagged, kidnapped and disappeared forever by masked, non-identifying thugs. Fast forward 30 years, and (chances are) my neighbors want this and are absolutely giddy at the thought of it happening here!

Regardless of who votes for what, how did my country turn into this?

You are fucked, American friends. And we're all fucked with you and because of you. When you sneeze the rest of the world catches a Covid sized cold so you're taking down the rest of us with you.

There may be differing views on other topics among the party, but Republicans broadly support this vision of cruelty and these actions against immigrants[1] by huge margins. It's probably the one single vision they are united behind.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45859760

Like, maybe the defining difference between arrest and abduction is whether the action is the output of an accountable system of justice, rather than whether the people doing it are the right kind of people and the people having it done to them are the wrong kind of people.

Yeah but "the totalitarian Neonazis who wanted to deploy secret police were only a slight majority" is really faint praise.

Was actually a fleeing suspect.

I look forward to it being brought up as fact in the next election.

Justice isn't getting what you want. Sometimes it's going back to your country which has stricter immigration requirements than the USA. With guns showing up the day after your Visa expires.

That's kidnapping.

They are conducting warrantless searches. There is a case where they rammed the car of a U.S. citizen (clearly seen on video), promptly took her into custody, accused her of hitting them, and then released her without charging her.

They are profiling people based on race and ethnicity.

The abductions look like kidnappings. They don’t look like law enforcement actions.

Because as far as I’m aware, immigration law is not a concern of the state, and what folks typically mean when they say “nullification” in this context is “the state isn’t doing the fed’s job for them.”

You also brought up warrants to enter private property. What do you make of the incident a few days ago where an agent hopped a fence to arrest someone, without a warrant? Should we just ignore those violations of our rights?

(I vote every single time unless my ballot would simply be empty. I'd like to say "I'll see you at the polls!" but that is seemingly a lost cause -- it's apparent that only one of us has any chance at all of imparting any change at this level, and that this person is not you.

But you do you. The folks who aren't nihilists will do what we can to steer the ship without your help.)

One thing to consider though - while I would normally agree with you on the job description of a congressional rep, there are some moments in history where performative-protest-as-candidate can do more good than ill. I think we're in one of those times, and I'm glad she's able to use the congressional platform to put the executive branch's policies and actions on display.

>The requirement for police officers to provide their name and badge number varies across the United States. While no federal law mandates disclosure, many states and municipalities have their own statutes aimed at enhancing transparency and accountability. These laws often require officers to identify themselves during specific interactions, such as traffic stops or arrests, to ensure citizens can hold law enforcement accountable.

https://legalclarity.org/does-a-police-officer-have-to-give-...

ICE where uniforms that say "ICE" in big letters. That's identification. Undercover police officers might identify themselves during an arrest, but only as "police." Undercover police officers aren't going to give you their name and badge number if you ask them.

>Situations Where Disclosure May Be Withheld

>While officers are generally expected to provide their name and badge number, there are situations where disclosure may justifiably be withheld. During undercover operations, revealing an officer’s identity could compromise safety and the operation’s integrity.

>In protests or crowd control situations, officers may face security concerns, such as risks of doxxing or harassment. To address this, some departments allow officers to withhold identification while still requiring visible markers, like badge numbers, to maintain accountability without endangering safety.

This stuff is trivially googlable.

You can want all of those things and still be against eg ice agents raiding a school. It would be more accurate if it focused exclusively on the more egregious ICE activities.

Other states, such as the UK, make it obscenely difficult to exist without documentation. They certainly do not tacitly endorse it. To suggest “I wouldn’t like” policies that plenty of western countries engage in seems naive.

Finally, the Republicans temperament on legal immigration is horrific, but they are in the position to ignore attempts to change the law because the law is on their side… like any issue in democracy, that means the Democrats are the party that needs to change minds.

This is clearly false in regards to most federal laws. To illustrate this, I'll take an exceptional example. If there where a serial killer who was living in IL, but had only killed anyone in other states, I suspect that IL government would likely go out of their way to assist the Feds in apprehending this killer, even though this is not required by state law.

IL would likely do the same for many, if not most, federal laws. The point of nullification is exactly when the state does not help when asked, still there are reasons for practical resources there, but it becomes very obvious nullification when the state passes laws preventing individuals who would LIKE to help, like local policed departments, from helping even if they wanted to. And this is exactly what has happened in many blue states.

Pretending that's not overt nullification is unserious.

(I liked Biden too and am directionally supportive of TPS; especially for Haitians, but broadly for everyone. My belief in the fundamental moral rightness of that program makes me less tolerant of the ineptitude with which the programs were managed, not more so: Biden's mishandling of this will probably set similar efforts back for the next 20 years.)

Swing voters exist. Moderates exist. Single-issue voters exist. Occasional voters exist. These are observable facts about the world.

The four groups exist in large enough numbers that they decide elections. Die-hard party loyalists exist, committed non-voters who'll never ever vote exist, but they're fixed quantities and are practically irrelevant.

I agree with the statement that what really matters is whether you can convince someone to vote differently - but, yes, of course you can! Trump has run three times and only won twice. Obviously there's something that can convince people not to vote for Donald Trump, because it has already happened.

"If you point out problems, you yourself are actually the problem. I am very rational."

Incredible logic.

Anyone who's read about the history of Germany in the 1920s and 1930s should understand how it's possible. We can still feel disappointed and helpless that the same mentality is rearing its head again, especially in a country that itself sent people overseas to fight it 100 years ago.

Off and on throughout my life as an American, I thought my fellow Americans could be sometimes be described as arrogant, sometimes uninformed, sometimes overconfident, sometimes over-patriotic, sometimes selfish. But never needlessly cruel and cold-blooded like millions are today. This is new and terrible. It's absolutely sickening to walk outside in my neighborhood, look at 10 houses and think maybe 3 or 4 of them are homes to people who are OK with what is happening.

Actually it was more like 25% of those eligible to vote, not "over half the country."

What was tired or supposed to work out? Not ostracizing is not exactly a solution (grandparent comment haven’t made suggestions as to what to do instead), and alternatives aren’t one possible approach but a giant spectrum of possible reactions. Instead of saying “you’re a bad person” a lot of different things can be done, right?

Or do you possibly mean that we collectively tried everything and nothing ever worked out, so we’re fairly positive this is wishful thinking? Or am I misunderstanding something, or falling to some fallacy here?

>It’s difficult enough to engage in a heterodox view in good faith. I don’t need to deal with slapdash bullshit.

I see we've reached the point in the discussion where you 'abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating...that the time for argument is over.'

Good fascist! Nice fascist! Late for a Bund meeting, are we?

Source: “Never believe that anti-Semites [or in this case, fascist apologists] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre[0]

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-...

"Look at what you're going through doing it the legal way while illegals are getting put up in 5-star hotels on your tax dollars" was a line I heard a few times. I was very aware of the havoc due to immigrants being bussed across states. At the time I chalked it up to increased border crossings like everybody else.

But also for this reason I had looked into it and realized that the Biden admin's hands were tied by the laws as they existed. And when both parties finally managed to reach an agreement to fix some of the laws, it was torpedoed by a specific party to support a "campaign premise."

I realize I implied upthread that it was "only perceptions", which was incorrect. But if the immigration data does not support the events that transpired, something somewhere is screwy. And its not a stretch to imagine, given the torpedoing above, that it was deliberately managed.

I hear what you're saying, I also agree and think you're very correct that it matters what the median voter thinks. Infrastructure and process to manage people we are bringing here is a requirement. Personally, I very firmly want to afford people due process and dignity, both of which they deserve. I'm frustrated by the lack of real information and constant opportunistic black-and-white rhetoric. It can't be that either "You're racist" or pulling up the ladder or conversely "Illegals are rapists and bring crime" and so forth. This has become a convenient wedge issue and it is disheartening, since we are toying with people's lives.

A lot of perceptions of immigration are fueled by (political) media attention and the situation on the ground varies depending on where you are. I clearly recall media stories about a New York City's Roosevelt Hotel used for asylum housing, this is part of the mechanisms like temporary housing and it was then weaponized by disingenuous trolls and politics. I feel like even when the public or individuals do provide the needed parts, we still get bad results. Even if corporations use E-Verify, we still get identity theft and fraud. There was even a Police officer in Maine this year who was deported after DHS' E-Verify cleared him for work status. The only way around that I can see would be a national biometric ID and that might not even do the trick or without considerable downside.

In 2025, We have a militarized terror campaign when the same people controlling the government could have repealed the 1980 Asylum Act, deployed satellites over the southern border amd deployed drones with thermal vision to monitor and intercept crossings, border agents, better background checks for employees, or whatever else for the same cost and effort of what we're doing right now. Last year, Democrats negotiated to fund border security, immigration judges, ICE funding and increased staffing, Asylum reform, surveillance towers on the border (the wall I guess?) and more in a 2024 National Security Emergency Appropriations act in exchange for supporting Ukraine's war against invasion, but Donald Trump convinced the Republicans to kill it. It seemed like everything they had demanded and more.

Right now the USS Gerald Ford is sailing towards Venezuela and I'm no mind reader but it seems not unlikely that we're going to blow up another country, creating a different kind of chaos and destabilizing the region before washing our hands as soon as next week. I honestly don't think that anything less than Blackhawks in the sky across America would be deemed acceptable and I don't think it ends there. They're saying we're demanding gender mutilation and free healthcare for illegal immigrants on USDA.gov right now.

If you're interested, I would be grateful to know whatever ideas you have. You've worked with adversaries, sometimes you have to shut off and disconnect compromised systems. Are we really in the place that (it seems to me) we need to deport all non-citizens and halt all immigration or else they scare people into worse?

Are the Republicans doing that right now? Probably not. Are the Democrats doing that right now? Also probably not.

Keep in mind these laws weren't enforced in this way for the past 50 years. It's difficult to accept that this was just democratic party disinterest in enforcing them. It really seems like no one wanted to.

I’ve repeatedly noted my concerns and problems with many of the actual enforcement. That said, there is an ocean of difference between having unjust laws and unjust policing.

I agree with you that this is "novel" but the idea is that this isn't a pendulum that swings back an forth. It's a cascade where the dam is breaking, and when it does, creates a wildly different paradigm than existed previously.

I don't like what is happening. I can just see why it's happening, and understand and appreciated the justifications for it.