What influence has the BBC had on history?(historytoday.com) |
What influence has the BBC had on history?(historytoday.com) |
My suspicion to this day is that these schools were both a spy front and long-game propaganda, where they were teaching how to make news more western-aligned.
Why would BBC want to teach their methods in Russia? How do they benefit from that? How does Soros benefit from that?
So yes, essentially propaganda, but in the same way Hollywood is.
Also, look up "confucius institutes" all over the US and the world setup the Chinese government to do something similar.
They don't give a damn about democracy. There's a reason they stole plenty of elections across Europe and Latin America. Hell, they even helped steal the 1996 Russian election.
Why does US benefit from every kid on the planet being able to name the avengers and instantly recognize Coca-Cola cans?
I'm not saying this is some grand conspiracy orchestrated by the elites - but projecting your power by making sure everyone is aligned with you ideologically and culturally helps long term, both in making allies and in avoiding wars.
The lack of democracy in Russia has now ended up costing millions of lives and trillions in damages, so maybe we should have actually invested more?
The BBC's mission is to inform, educate, and entertain, not to benefit themselves.
> How does Soros benefit from that?
I'm more anti-Soros than most, but he is fairly open that he wants to prevent a recurrence of the Holocaust and a free press and western-style civil liberties are things he sees as supporting that. Even if you want to see it in selfish terms, the guy is rich and Jewish and wants the kind of society that doesn't victimise people like him; that doesn't mean he's part of some kind of cloak-and-dagger conspiracy.
They each have their own agendas.
> At the last count, in 1984, the BBC had a staff of almost 30,000. We have discovered that all current affairs appointees, together with many of those involved in the actual making of programmes - including directors and film editors - are vetted.
> We have also established who runs the system. It operates, unknown to almost all BBC staff, from Room 105 in an out-of-the way corridor on the first floor of Broadcasting House - a part of that labyrinth on which George Orwell modelled his Ministry of Truth in 'Nineteen Eighty-Four.'
> The names of outside applicants are submitted to F Branch 'domestic' subversion desks at MI5, which is headed by the diplomat Sir Antony Duff. They are fed into a computer containing the details of 500,000 'subversives'.
https://www.cambridgeclarion.org/press_cuttings/mi5.bbc.page...
> MI5 probably got their toe-hold in the BBC during the war when staff running the external services broadcasting to occupied Europe were vetted. Sir Hugh Greene, later to become director-general of the BBC, remembers: 'I was vetted in 1940. MI5 thought I was a Communist, but it turned out to be a mistake .' During the Cold War, Attlee's Government openly announced that civil servants who were Communists (or Fascists) would not be allowed access to classified material. But the BBC were keeping a secret blacklist. Hugh Greene recalls a case in the external services: 'He wasn't a security risk at all. It turned out he had worked for MI6,the rival secret service, and there had been an internal quarrel.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22Christmas_tree%22_files
edit: the BBC coverage of the Scottish independence referendum, Corbyn, and Brexit was embarrassing. The Prescott memo is just the latest observation of how the BBC has been used as a tool to propagate elite opinions and accomplish intelligence objectives. Of course you like it, it's for you.
Like all news organisations the BBC gets views based on outrage and I don't think the Greens or the Libdems get 1/2 Farage's news coverage based on having 1/2 his support and that's clearly because they don't do outrageous things.
I think this kind of criticism is in bad faith. Because there's an implication that you're comparing the BBC to some kind of ideal unbiased news outlet.
In reality, the alternatives to the BBC are much more obviously nefarious and make far less steps to remove bias.
If the BBC is a tool to "propagate elite opinions", then how would you describe Fox News, the Daily Mail, The Times (UK), or even CNN?
"I'm not forced to pay for those via a tax" would be the key difference.
I always understood that Broadcasting House was inspiration for Room 101 (Ministry of Love) rather than the MoT.
It's well-known that the University of London Senate House building was the inspiration for the Ministry of Truth. Both the interior and exterior have appeared in many films and TV shows. Seems to come out of the visual creative toolbox when there's a need to evoke oppression or technocratic stultification through architecture, which is a shame as it's rather nice to visit!
(They had a nice worked example involving exam results - some years have much higher variance than others, due to incompetence in question-setting or marking, and in those years the mis-marking is randomly distributed but only the more middle class parents manage to work the system to get re-marked)
(Well, I say anyone; I guess I mostly mean bad people, who aren't restrained by fairness or honesty).
Yes, they were clearly pro-Remain and anti-Corbyn and anti-Scottish independence.
>> The Prescott memo is just the latest observation of how the BBC has been used as a tool to propagate elite opinions and accomplish intelligence objectives.
Yes, it demonstrated examples of bias in favour of those elite opinions.
I would say they were a lot less pro-Remain than the facts were, such that they were effectively heavily biased towards Leave.
Typically they'd interview someone to factually explain how Brexit would be bad, and then 'balance' it up by giving equal airtime to some liar/fantastist telling us how it would be wonderful.
I can't speak of the MI5 accusation but the elite opinion one is comically of the mark. The (economic/political) elite famously hate the Beeb for its "leftie" views (really, it's just being balanced and telling the facts that they object to). The Tories would love an excuse to tear it apart but historically it's been too popular for them to get away with that.
If you had meant intellectual elites then maybe you would have a point but I don't think that's what you were saying.
Then I remember the Jimmy Saville cover-up. Britain's pound shop/ dollar store Epstein.
> senior managers were not told of complaints about Savile because of an "atmosphere of fear" which still exists in the BBC
Written 10 years ago and still true today. It's just that the lies de jour depend on who currently holds political and (to a far grater extent today) cultural power. The elites, in a modern cultural sense, are not necessarily people with traditional money and power (royalty, politicians, famous stars and billionaires). Undoubtedly they have power, but these days that type of power doesn't protect you from the mob. Today, power is wielded by people who claim to have none, yet somehow set the tone on social media (moderation rules), influence rules within universities, influence charities and NGOs, and from there, media outlets. Politicians today are just landing to all. The BBC has is right up there with all the other liars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_ref...
Just pay a 100% capitalist
They pretty consistently just want a 23rd arab state, want all the Jews gone, don’t care about the 850K jews forced out of other arab states, and don’t think Jews are native to Judea or that Arabs come from the Arabian peninsula.
Democracy is a noble ideal, and I believe in it, but anyone can call themselves democratic. You need to put your money where your mouth is.
>>There's a reason they stole plenty of elections across Europe and Latin America
And that is for the exact reason I mentioned above. With a democracy it's just much easier to make sure the government is alligned with you(look at American meddling in UK politics), with a tsar like Putin it's not, because at this point he's beyond bribery or red carpets rolled out for him. So sure, for now anyone with any kind of position of power will tell you that they would support democracy in Russia - because then there is hope normal trading relationships could be restored and money made.
This isn't an excuse for it btw - I'm just stating the fact that US especially will pursue their own interest first and foremost, if democracy furthers those then they will support it, if it doesn't then they will not.
I would say that's partly true, but Russia doesn't have much you can't get elsewhere, other than maybe oil? Not having to fight wars with russia seems to be the overarching goal (proxy, cold or any other type of 'war').
> This isn't an excuse for it btw - I'm just stating the fact that US especially will pursue their own interest first and foremost, if democracy furthers those then they will support it, if it doesn't then they will not.
Yes, as it should. I don't know why people expect the US to be some beacon of global morality or democracy. First and foremost, the people of the US expect their government to protect their security and economic prosperity, we don't car as much about our "image".
I think I can answer that - because growing up(not in the US) United States of America were that paragon of well, everything. Everyone wanted to move there eventually, everything about US was the best, best books, films, technology, women(yes, I know), jobs, sights, cities etc etc. For better or worse America has managed to inspire millions of kids around the globe to see it as the best country in the world. Like, US were the good guys in every situation. If you heard about US going to war with someone, it was because they were right and the other side was wrong. And then we grew up and realized that most of it was just a lie.
>>we don't car as much about our "image".
Respectfully, if there is one thing that America does well it's caring about its image - the soft projection of power by export of its culture is one thing that no other country has been able to replicate anywhere near as well, maybe except for Japan.
>>but Russia doesn't have much you can't get elsewhere, other than maybe oil
You can get everything anywhere, but the point is that Russia has certain resources that it produces in huge quantities and cheaply. They are a leading producer of nickel, which obviously is incredibly important in various industries. They are the main producer of palladium, platinum, and one of the biggest producers of gold and diamonds. Plus they produce and export huge quantities of wood and coal. Obviously all of those things can be obtained elsewhere, but there is a reason why countries have been buying those things from Russia - they have a lot of it and they sell it cheap.
[citation needed]; I'm aware of all the Latin America badness, School of the Americas, Nicaragua, Allende, etc, but I don't know what you're referring to here and you do actually need to support claims of ballot rigging with evidence.
But yes, this fundamental tension in American "state building" was being unable to handle cases when the foreign public wanted a democracy that wasn't run by and for the benefit of US corporations or right-wing Christians. You can see it propagating backwards now America has its own Pinochet.
edit/reading/watching/
They never checked if I was reading the BBC website when I lived in the UK without paying the license fee.
Still don't now I'm outside the country.
Image and and projection of power are not the same thing. The anticipation of a threat is what projection of power is. As far as the soft project of power and diplomatic reputation, that is just our government taking the path of least resistance. The american people themselves not only couldn't care less (with the exception of the more educated/urban populace), the majority can't even tell you what our government is up to overseas or why they should about people in Europe or elsewhere think badly of the US. You're seeing trump insult our closet ally Canada and dismantling NATO, I'd wager 60% of Americans neither care about that, nor if they were educated on the subject in detail would they care.
Of course we want the world to like us, everyone wants to be liked. But like anyone else, security and wealth are more desirable than being liked. But even if money and security aren't at stake, other countries are just so far away both physically and in relation to the day to day lives of americans, it just doesn't register as a big deal if the whole of Europe hates america for example. As far as I'm personally aware, most of Europe has been hating America for a long time anyways? At least after 9/11.
The reason things like racism, social equality,etc.. are so talked about in America vs Europe is that Americans don't care if the world thinks negatively about us. Europe has all those problems, sometimes worse depending on the country, but Europeans care a lot about their image. I'd say China, Russia, and a few other countries I can think of have similar sentiment about foreign image of their country. We all keep having a negative image of China being a totalitarian nightmare or whatever, but the people love their country and approve of their government, couldn't care less what some westerners think of them.
> And then we grew up and realized that most of it was just a lie.
I think that's just our intel and diplomatic services working really well. You thought America was made up of better people than elsewhere, but you found out we're just humans that want the same things and have the same priorities as everyone else. i wouldn't say most of that is a lie though, even now under trump's nightmarish administration, America is still the best place to migrate to, the best place to prosper economically and seek education, to be tread equally and enjoy a decent quality of life -- for most of the world that is. I think japan and korean entertainment is getting really good, but the US is still the best. The national parks of the US and the national wilderness is second to none, I'd even call it the best feature of America.
Where the US fell short of your expectation is around things like freedom, liberty and democracy, the US did a lot of things under the guise of spreading those things, but in reality it was always for geopolitical and strategic reasons.
The whole "we're the good guys" thing was well intended but came with fine print of "So long as it's in our best interest". All in all the US treated the world better than the USSR, colonial powers of Europe, Ottomans and all the other empires preceding the US. In Korea, the US fought to assist south korea, to contain China. Vietnam had the exact reason (contain China/communism), but a false narrative was given to the public, but still, it was done to assist the southern vietnamese government, in Kuwait, the US kicked out Sadam to assist the Kuwaiti government. Even in the 2003 Iraq war, the US leadership naively expected Iraqis to welcome them for freeing them from Saddam's tyranny (and tbf, many did!), both Iraq and Afghanistan were not for oil or flexing muscles but as part of a strategy to stabilize the region (but again -- false narrative was given to the public). I don't want to make this post longer than I should, but all in all, and with a historical perspective, there has never been a more benevolent and well intentioned country wielding power to invade and decimate any opposition like the US.
I think your experience is similar to kids growing up and finding out their parents are just regular people with many faults. But I think intent matters a lot.
> Obviously all of those things can be obtained elsewhere, but there is a reason why countries have been buying those things from Russia - they have a lot of it and they sell it cheap.
The US has never relied on them at least. Every time western europe relies on russia for trade it comes back to bite them. I don't think they have anything that is so rare that you need them for it. Ukraine for example exports so much wheat/grain that there is a real concern of global famine if they were to cease exporting. Taiwan has semiconductors, China has dominated rare earth mineral extraction/exporting. Even the US doesn't have much in terms of trade leverage on the supply side of things.