Show HN: A geofence-based social network app 6 years in development

Show HN: A geofence-based social network app 6 years in development(localvideoapp.com)

78 points by Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | 60 comments

My name is Adrian. I'm a Software Engineer and I spent 6 years developing a perimeter-based geofence-based social media app.

What it does:

- Allows you to load a custom perimeter anywhere on the geographic map (180° E and W longitude and 90° N and S latitude), to cover area any area of interest

- Chat rooms get loaded within the perimeter

- You can chat with people within the perimeter

I developed a mobile app that uses an advanced geofence-based networking system from 2013 to 2019. My goal was to connect users within polygon geofences anywhere in the world. The app is capable of loading millions of polygon geofences anywhere in the world.

https://enterpriseandroidfoundation.com/assets/images/other/...

But people didn't really have a need for this. So after failing, I spent the next 6 years trying new ideas to use FencedIn for. I tried a location-based video app and a place-based app that had multiple features. Nothing worked, but now I'm almost finished developing ChatLocal, an app that allows you to load a perimeter anywhere on the geographic map, which loads chat rooms.

The tech stack is 100% Java (low-level mostly). I have a backend, commons library and an Android app. Java was the natural choice back in 2013. However, I still wouldn't choose anything else today. Java is the best for long-term large-scale projects. (I'm also using WildFly. PostgreSQL and a Linux server.)

This app is still not fully finished, but I think the impact on society might be tremendous.

The previous app to ChatLocal, LocalVideo, is fully up on the Google Play store and can be tested. It has 88% of the features of ChatLocal, including especially the perimeter-based loading system.

The feedback I'm mostly looking for is new ideas and concepts to add to this location-based social media app. And how strong of a value proposition does the app have for society.

MarsIronPI 175 days ago |

Let me start by saying that I really like this idea.

Obviously social apps like this are faced with a chicken-and-egg dilemma of how to acquire users. I'm no marketer, so I don't have any suggestions on how to solve this one.

For myself, I avoid non-free/open-source programs in general, but especially chat apps. I think that especially the programs we rely on to communicate should at least be transparent on the client-side. That being said, I would absolutely try this out if the app were released as FOSS (which it doesn't look like it is?).

BanAntiVaxxers 175 days ago |

There's so many ways to fake your location data. There's one way that you can't really fake: Send them a secret code on a piece of paper in the US mail to their physical address. NextDoor used to do this at one point.

itake 175 days ago | |

At the start, getting users is the first problem. No one is going to bother scamming your app if there is no one there.

Then once people exploit the app, that doesn't mean they wont add value (e.g. contribute positive content). Maybe they are just a high school kid that wants to talk to his friends in his last town?

Once you have users, then there will be other easy signals to detect: Is the person teleporting? Do they hit rate limits freq? Is their GPS location the exact 'center' of the city? Is there GPS a nice pretty number? Does their GPS location never move?

adrianwaj 175 days ago | |

It's hard to fake a reputation score. If someone is providing services in an area, they aren't going to start faking a location, and if they do they won't gain any reputation.

But location is already baked into many social media apps anyway, though. https://gemini.google.com/share/68d4fd324d94 ...that'd be the real issue here, perhaps.

Locally produced food is the important one, going forward. It can be much cheaper living away from a city, yet people still want their services. They want to know where the best place to live is.. even to the nearest mile for walking reasons. They want to know where a doctor is, if the nearest hospital is over an hour's drive away. Also language.. how can digital nomads move about and find same-language speakers.

What's wrong with Google maps for this type of stuff? Is there a competitor with downloadable data? What if a war breaks out in your region or the internet goes out or is inaccessible. Need offline data. What happens if service providers don't trust users enough to want to share their data?

A good idea would be for people to take photos of their local community board and share that, so long as the next Pol Pot doesn't see it as well.

Another interesting use-case will be listings of locally tokenized assets. If I need access to a vacuum cleaner or power tools, who would have those nearby? Who has farm land for my heirloom seeds? Where can I buy dairy from pure, healthy livestock? Tokenized assets I expect to eventually grow in size as inequality becomes more K-shaped. People will start selling off these things to the ones with the gold or at least be more willing to rent their stuff out. People are being increasingly homogenized physically, mentally and financially. Location is one of the last areas of differentiation ... and targeting.

Adrian-ChatLocl 174 days ago | | |

This is a completely different idea though.

baubino 175 days ago | |

I worked on a location-based app a few years ago and this was the exact validation method we used (after having learned about it from using NextDoor). It’s incredibly slow and tedious though. We abandoned the app for other reasons but I always wondered how one could continued to manage this approach once network effects kick in and the app really starts to grow.

patcon 175 days ago | | |

I think it's a neat service layer: and infra layer that attests to people's addresses -- to break it you need to intercept mail, which is a federal offence in most states. So it piggybacks on assurances of states, even while being nonstate.

In an experimental identity system I prototyped as a civic tech project[1], I paired this with scraping a government "voter registration check" form and comparing against, and it was a two-fold guarantee: someone had to either submit false info to the voter registry or intercept mail. In theory it was very cheap to get very high assurances, for only the cost of a postcard API per user

[1]: https://github.com/patcon/id.c4nada.ca?tab=readme-ov-file#ab...

drnick1 175 days ago | |

> Send them a secret code on a piece of paper in the US mail to their physical address.

Many people will refuse, on principle, to provide this information to any company, unless perhaps it's for home delivery of some good.

seany 175 days ago | |

How does this work if you don't get mail service at your physical address? (PO box service only)

Marsymars 175 days ago | | |

I don't know how Nextdoor does it, but if you're an entity where establishing physical location is important you can courier letters to pretty much anywhere. (At some multiples higher cost than regular mail service.)

Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | |

That seems a little excessive for an app like this. The only way I know of that users can fake their location is with a rooted device. I check for rooted devices in the app though so locations can't be spoofed.

subscribed 174 days ago | | |

Device doesn't have to be rooted to spoof the location.

Also, I hope you're not using Play Integrity (lol), because that means all the old phones you allow can be rooted, hide it from you and/or spoof positive chdck result........ because they're insecure like sieves..... Whilst you'd be banning modern and unrooted phones.

drnick1 175 days ago | | |

So presumably this will be an evil app that reinforces Google monopoly by using Play Integrity?

BanAntiVaxxers 174 days ago | | |

>> I check for rooted devices in the app

Is that possible on iPhone, or only on Android?

ranger_danger 172 days ago | |

Disagree, it's very easy to temporarily forward USPS mail for a specific name from one address to another, and the sender has no idea.

lubujackson 175 days ago | |

Obviously not unhackable and often outdated as people move around, but I always thought phone number area codes were a quick and dirty way to establish or roughly segment people by location.

chrisweekly 175 days ago | | |

Most people I know have kept whatever mobile phone number they happened to have when number portability was introduced in late 2003.

anotherpaul 175 days ago |

I don't quite understand: Instead of using the phones GPS to let me simply chat with people around me, which would be great during traveling or commute, I need to choose the place I chat at?

This seems super counter productive in my opinion. It creates way more friction that I want.

Maybe I want to save a location I have been to as a chatroom, sure but my primary interest would be to have my location determine the chat. So if I enter a university building: boom university chat. I enter Cern: boom Cern chat.

The hard part would be to not just use rectangles but actually make the shapes meaningful. I don't want to walk past a high school or live next to one and then be included in that chat. So yeah. Tricky

kitd 175 days ago |

Very cool idea. My only worry is "Anonymous Mode". Anonymity IME usually results in conversations descending into vitriol, snark or libel.

g-b-r 175 days ago | |

Places where you have to use your real name, like Facebook, are typically more toxic

kitd 175 days ago | | |

I find the opposite. Anonymity provides a protection from shame that real names don't.

behole 175 days ago | | |

hmm. Facebook is a GD cesspool but 4chan?? Anonymity drives that toxicity!

deadcore 175 days ago |

Good idea - sort of remind me of YikYak. That was really fun & actually a great way to get local tips if you were new into an area with a good community. Towns it was dead, but if I was in a city that I'd never been to before, put a question out and you would get some real good insights.

It faced a fair few controversies & got taken offline and not sure what became of it...

Always wanted something with that... casual fence... to think of a better word again

patrik_cihal 174 days ago |

One pattern I’ve noticed with local / geofenced chat is that without a primary task (coordination, trade, alerts, etc.), chat becomes the product... and historically that converges to low-signal or toxicity. The tech here is impressive, but I’d worry the value needs to be anchored to a concrete job-to-be-done rather than chat itself.

diggum 175 days ago |

Very cool. I developed something in a similar vein as a way to teach myself web programming 15 years ago or so. Https://dirtywalls.com is location-based message boards. You can create or join ones close to your location. Reminds me that I need to try to tell people about it since it’s mostly just me checking in to my local bars and shops.

Adrian-ChatLocl 174 days ago | |

Nice. It's definitely a similar concept, just no geofences.

pantalaimon 175 days ago |

Reminds me of Jodel (https://jodel.com/), an app originally focused on students.

It lost quite some activity in the last decade though, gaining fewer users than it loses.

shigawire 175 days ago | |

Jodel seemed to hurt itself badly with unskippable video ads, at least within the local community I am in that used to have a niche group of users.

Similarly, in the US YikYak was also popular at colleges but killed itself by forcing user accounts instead of full anonymity.

Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | |

Interesting. I've never seen this app before. Ya, still not completely the same concept though. It's using proximity.

user2722 175 days ago | |

I can no longer install Jodel, says my device is not compatible (GrapheneOS on Pixel 9).

nprateem 175 days ago |

Unless you're a masochist you should prototype your idea and see what people want instead of building it first.

Why add new features instead of trying to gain traction?

wakeforce 175 days ago |

I had this exact same idea years ago, it's awesome to see someone else had the same idea, but actually had the guts to do it! Wishing you success!

utopiah 175 days ago |

Checkout Hoplr.com that's a Web based equivalent.

Adrian-ChatLocl 174 days ago | |

Only for neighborhoods. What if you want to connect with people in a park?

g-b-r 175 days ago |

Not sure why you link to a screenshot of LinkedIn, or to LinkedIn at all, but you might want to spell-check what's written there

rrr_oh_man 175 days ago |

Why 6 years?

Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | |

It started with an idea to allow users to connect within polygon geofences anywhere on earth. Getting this system to work on Android with all the backend code takes a lot of time. The system itself loads polygon geofences 180° E and W longitude and 90° N and S latitude. And it uses perimeter-based loading system that crosses the antimeridian, equator and north and south poles.

Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | | |

I also built the entire user-based infrastructure from ground up in Java. That includes account settings, sign up, forgot and reset password, and verification codes with multiple settings.

But the framework itself is still more complex, allowing for very stable long-term Android applications. It includes dynamic configurations parsed from the database on the backend and then used on the backend and Android app via the commons library. Dynamic user messages. A full commons REST framework with REST processing that's in the commons library.

Overall it's a large system. And in fact, I'm getting close to publishing it so that users can build their own 100% Java full-stack Android applications: enterpriseandroidfoundation.com

cyberax 175 days ago |

No web version? No sale.

WTF is wrong with these social apps!?!? Who wants to chat on a tiny screen when they have a computer available. Especially for local apps that function only when you're home.

shigawire 175 days ago | |

>WTF is wrong with these social apps!?!? Who wants to chat on a tiny screen when they have a computer available. Especially for local apps that function only when you're home.

I agree with you personally... But at this point it is clear the answer is "everyone". The average consumer is not using a desktop for personal computing daily, just work.

tclancy 175 days ago | |

I mean, every phone has a camera built-in and you don't have to worry about drivers or anything like that.

MarsIronPI 175 days ago | | |

I mean, every browser (worth supporting) can use the device's camera[0] and you don't have to worry about building for every OS or anything like that.

[0]: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/Media_Captu...

mvkel 175 days ago |

This app (like any consumer social app) needs to first solve the cold start problem: make it useful for a single user, layer the social on top.

Instagram had photo filters; Strava had activity stats. What could this have?

Adrian-ChatLocl 175 days ago | |

I'm not sure if the concept is really for a single user. It's more like you get to connect with people within geographically-defined perimeters.

anotherpaul 175 days ago | | |

One obvious feature would be to provide geo fenced Wikipedia or news feed.

Like what is the highest rated/longest Wikipedia article in the area.

Or maybe what's the 3 top radio stations and a link to them.

There is plenty of local content that Google does not surface

mvkel 175 days ago | | |