Apple Business(apple.com) |
Apple Business(apple.com) |
if they can also monetize - location api - via Apple Maps + business messaging that's easily 3+ Billion of revenue yearly.
Burying the lede about ADs coming to everything in this announcement. Seems like the contract most people implicitly signed when choosing Apple just broke.
It's happening. The end is near !!!
However, for iOS and iPadOS, the answer is “Sort of”.
As taken from https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/deployment/dep4d9e9cd2...:
> If a user is signed in with a personal Apple Account and Managed Apple Account, Sign in with Apple automatically uses the Managed Apple Account for managed apps and the personal Apple Account for unmanaged apps.
that said, you can create multiple users per macOS device, and each can have a different Apple Account. that's a nightmare, because some significant areas of device management assume a single Apple Account. So for example you can use a 2nd account to get around Activation Lock in some cases.
It's like Microsoft now - put everything under one massive convoluted control panel.
Being early is the same as being wrong and there’s no business value in costly exploration of new territory at least in the 21st century
Name me a single company that is still in business and dominating a market based on being first to market with a new product.
It used to be necessary to use a slew of dodgy providers like Jama, with is 2000 website (and why would I trust any small company with all my enterprise data). ABM didn’t provide the MDM part and that was most annoying. It seems normal to integrate account management and MDM, so I’d love to use it.
That ABM is full of bugs, the Apple team incompetent, and D&B being Dumb and Dunber is another question.
I’m happy to be corrected if I missed anything, or entertain alternate conclusions. I’m no expert.
They're basically planning to enter the market where Microsoft has dominant position.
My first thought from that heading was “my company will know where I am at all times”. Though that was not the point thankfully.
Fuck you Apple.
It's 2026. I think we can expect more from Apple. It's not a small indie company after all.
Supported browser:
Safari (14.1 or later)
Chrome (87 or later)
Microsoft Edge (87 or later)
We live in fantastic times
I remember this!
I am sure "BUT BUSINESS AND MONEY" is the answer but that feels like a cop out in this case.
It's 2026 and you have to delete contacts one at a time, or press and slide to select a group of them until you reach one you don't want to delete, delete that group, then start over again.
Other basic functionality I'd like includes being able to remote control an iPhone from a device which isn't a modern Mac, and being able to plug in an iPhone and use it as a removable storage device.
I can say that the MDM solution I went with leaves a lot to be desired, but it works and it’s cheap. Since I’m only managing iPads, I really wanted to go with Apple for the simplicity, but, like I said, the price was too high (at the time at least).
Not a particular area of expertise for me, but the times I've had to deal with it just seemed like an inherently complex and messy problem.
You may, and probably will, call me a fanboy or argue that reminiscing the good old times when Apple had 4 products are long gone and we live in a different world now. That is true, we live in a different world and focusing on 4 products wouldn't suffice for Apple to survive.
And now again, you may, and probably will, think that I'm burying my head in sand and ignoring many aspects a business needs to consider in order to survive, just to focus on the ones I like or am nostalgic about.
But there is something very special in this simplicity communicated by Steve in the speech. There is something that makes me want to buy a product when I see clearly what it is I'm buying.
On the other hand, there is something very repulsive when I read phrases like: seamless, streamline, gain valuable insights, build trust, in a product announcement.
Don't get me wrong, I am indifferent about Apple Business, probably won't use it and it won't harm me either. My observation is just a coincidence having heard the speech and having read the announcement here. Link to video: https://youtu.be/EoM2Y2KO6kU?si=0DybhDUiqKsWG_Nz
The enshittification knows no bounds.
Absolutely do not touch this product with a ten-foot pole.
That’s genius
In no way was TSMC the first to market for chips or chip production or even any major chip fab product at its outset.
In fact they did exactly the Apple model and took what TI was doing and used government money to scale it. I don’t know a single unique product from TSMC
If anything Texas Instruments (which is I grew up around in Houston) could be considered actually building a good product from scratch, look at them now…
Apple fails at every novel thing they try and crushes it at every thing they copy
Garmin anyone?
I think Timex and Casio even had ones in the 90s
He writes like.... the worst comments. I genuinely hope he gets much needed help. He seems like a bitter sad man.
I appreciate that you made a whole ass new account just for this comment
Cheers to that
(I don't have a side in this discussion)
Nevermind the godawful Liquid Glass UX they cooked up and imposed on everyone else...
The first step was "Domain Lock/Capture" which takes over all Apple accounts for a specific domain.
I've never had a worse experience from Apple.
The process is buggy, filled with foot-guns and dead ends. It expects huge amounts of work from users who have had their account for more than a few weeks and are expected to remove a lot of their personal data before their account can be migrated (e.g. do you know how to delete all your Health data?). The process is also impossible to cancel.
Phone support was par for the course, e.g. tickets escalated to the abyss, suggestions to restore workstations to factory settings, etc.
Be warned.
There are several cheap MDM solutions for Apple devices that I would rather pay for than be dependent on this. (We've used SimpleMDM and love them.)
I had the same thing happen but with Microsoft. A friend and I had started a small consulting business and were using Google Workspace, but I needed a Microsoft account to interact with a client. I made one with my business email. None of us knew any better, but I couldn’t connect with our client’s Microsoft setup because it was a personal account. So I went to set up a business account. It was a whole fiasco and the only way I could really fix it was create an alias and use that for Microsoft.
So give all the employees an email alias they can use to create a new Apple ID for this purpose?
This should not be a surprise. Greenfield services have not existed long enough to resolve edge cases that inevitably arise while integrating existing operating models already in use.
I wanted to evaluate it for MDM purposes so I applied for an ABM account for a company I work for, got soft-approved, created an entirely new Apple ID (as required by the ABM), used it to log on a test device I intended to manage, then sort of forgot about it while awaiting for Apple to conclude their hard-approval for the ABM account creation.
Apple was supposed to contact the business owner to verify company details and finalize the process over the next few days, but they never did.
30 days later they canceled the ABM company account and deleted all the associated users along with the Apple ID which I used to log into a testing device, which now became a fairly expensive paperweight.
I had very little expectations about the experience and I was still disappointed.
We had to do it as ppl had made personal Apple accounts using our domain, meaning if they logged in with such an account and left, their iPhone magically transformed into an expensive, elegant paperweight. Due to a setting in our previous MDM we were unable to migrate data cleanly using Apple Biz Manager without committing to use ABM as our MDM (we couldn't) so we told people to "move it yourself following these detailed instructions, otherwise it can't be migrated." Regarding personal data like health on company-managed devices, I certainly don't share that type of info with my employer, and make it clear to staff that it's not our responsibility to migrate such data.
This is exactly what I would have expected from an Apple "business" offering. Apple's whole shtick is to take away most of your choices so that they can focus on the limited number of things they still allow you to do. Businesses need the opposite of that.
Businesses will show up needing integrations with multiple existing third party (often legacy) systems with inherent complexity and then want something that allows them to manage that complexity since it can't be eliminated. It's not really possible in that context to have the experience people otherwise expect Apple to provide, and the thing Apple normally does will often make it worse by removing choices you may have needed in order to make interaction with a third party system less of a pain.
I'm in a family iCloud group with my parents... one day I just woke up and had all my podcasts and music replaced with my Mum's :/
Would not want this anywhere near a "business" experience
I have a lot of technical understanding with how CloudKit works and there's not a pathway for what you're describing to come out of a family group.
I'll try again next month see how far I get with this. This needs to be way simpler than it currently is. Hopefully they fixed a few things there.
And we have like 20k or so users with manually created Apple IDs on their company email and every one of them has to be manually resolved. It's a joke.
This is also after they've verified us (and our DUNS number) for app signing and distribution. We already have a verified account in another service of theirs!
It is also clearly described how to move an account that is used privately to a different domain / mail.
This sort of thing should probably be illegal.
Wait, there's more!
> In addition, customers can now set up business email, calendar, and directory services with their own domain name for seamless and elevated communication and collaboration.
Wow, a custom domain name!
> Apple Business enables automated Managed Apple Account creation for new employees through integration with an identity service provider, including Google Workspace, Microsoft Entra ID, and more.
In the year 2026, I can finally start logging into my corporate laptop with my corporate ID. Wow!
Them stapling on the announcement of advertisements for Apple Maps is especially hilarious. I don't think the people managing fleet devices at a corporation are the same people who are interested in setting their location ad strategy. But Apple saw they had two vaguely business-y things at the same time and thought they would really hit it off together.
I have to imagine that the Apple Neo is heavily aimed at volume sales - low level white collar workers and education. These features seem to be hastily assembled to meet the needs of these potential buyers.
As a lot of people on this thread have pointed out, Apple's Business Manager needs a lot of improvements. ("Bring your own device" support is terrible, for example. Changing business names requires a perilous migration step. Support reps don't have the tools to fix serious issues.)
If Apple Business were a real revenue source, if they charged luxury prices for a luxurious business support experience, they could pay for developers to fix their stuff.
Instead, Apple Business is a free side hustle for Apple, a hobby. But they're proposing to control your entire domain, to Domain Lock all Apple accounts for your domain, to put your businesses's life in their hands, for "free."
Don't fall for it.
New businesses under 50 employees are going to eat this up like there's no tomorrow.
I'd be scared if I was certain Redmond corporation who makes their money on 365 and Intune.
Not possible.
Ok, let's ask support what to do: the only thing we can do is create a new account, get the approval, etc. and then ask for a migration that may or may not be approved and may or may not end succesfully.
In the end we keep receiving the bills in the old name, then change it manually or append a note.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/francisco-partners-completes-...
That said, who knows where this will go in the coming years.
I lamented how Apple hardware is now the same price as the other vendors, yet best in class for quality and how Dell and HP are hiking their laptop pricing lately due to supply shortages. Especially on their pro lines, which have been quoted to me as twice the price of equivalent MacBooks.
I mentioned Apple would be silly not to make a further global move into MDM and email hosting territory. Particularly for small business owners: 1-10 person shops and retail who use mostly cloud based POS applications.
Others responded at the time, and I agreed with it, that it seems unlikely Apple would make a business move. After all, they don’t have much history with business, or perhaps they did but they didn’t like the market and wrapped it up.
Well, with this announcement, and with the confirmation that *Apple native email hosting is coming* I am very excited to trial it when it lands in April. Over the last few months, our small business has already cracked it and downgraded most of our email hosting to Exchange Plan 1 and dropped the desktop Office suite in favour of Pages and Numbers, which are both free and absolutely working fine. In fact, I’ve found Pages to be less laggy and more stable than Word in very large documents such as 300+ pages. The logical next step for us is to fully drop our third-party MDM and review whether Apple’s native MDM, email and identity systems are adequate for transition. We have saved thousands of $$ so far and stand to save a lot more!
Since I have no employees and my devices are under control, I guess it's not for me, whatever it is.
> Apple Business Essentials, Apple Business Manager, and Apple Business Connect will no longer be available once Apple Business launches.
So it's a consolidation. They call out Business Connect data as "including claimed locations, place card information, photos, organization information, account details, and more," so that's some of what differs from Business Essentials.
I've worked with two agencies now that used only Macs across the business and had a really fun time signing in to and integrating 58 Google services every time they hired someone new.
It's possible people may continue to use Google Workspaces in these places, however, the fact that there was never even an Apple option was always wild to me.
Apple Business Essentials with AppleCare+ for 3 devices and 200GB iCloud storage is $19.99 per user/mo. That's the same price as AppleCare One alone.
It has always been Apple > Users > Partners.
There's a reason why Microsoft is still the king of enterprises. Anybody getting involved with this with Apple will deserve everything thats coming their way
I guess they were doing that before in the App Store, which is of course also awful.
The business needs here aren't so different to family manangement features, say.
Throwing in Entra ID / Google Workspace authentication and multiple Apple IDs per device is probably the most "interesting" part as to where that ends up in the distant future.
Does this mean that I'm able to enroll two Apple Accounts on an iPhone at once? Or does Apple actually think that I'm gonna be storing personal data, such as my health data, on a company device with a company-managed Apple Account?
At the moment I just have two iPhones: my personal iPhone that has my data and is connected to my Apple Watch, and my work iPhone, which sits on a desk and does nothing. The separate Apple Account on the work one means that I can't connect it to an Apple Watch and I can't download my apps on it, so you either can't accumulate any personal data on the device, or you need to submit all of your personal data to your employer's Apple Account. Including whatever health data your Apple Watch produces.
Yes sure you can use a different tool for any of these, defaults dominate for the same reason Google pays ~15 billion to be the default search engine on iPhones.
It's kind of insane the advantage Apple Silicon has brought along with the brutal price competition PC sales. The only question I have is whether this touches the sides. That is to say - they sell a billion iPhones, is the consumer laptop and low end business sales enough to bump the numbers. They're thinner margins, and that market has to some extent been on a downward trend (which is why the stock market is running to data centres where the compute actually happens).
Dell, Lenovo, HP will gladly send a technician to your house, and their NBD warranties cost about the same as Applecare. And they don't care if you're an enterprise or an individual buying one measly laptop.
> Apple Business Essentials, Apple Business Manager, and Apple Business Connect will no longer be available once Apple Business launches. Business Essentials customers will no longer be charged their monthly service fee for device management after April 14. Existing Business Connect data — including claimed locations, place card information, photos, organization information, account details, and more — will automatically migrate to Apple Business at launch.
I don't get it. Is this free? If so this is insane value compared to everything else.
Does this mean — Always Free or Introductory Free for now?
I'm glad Apple announced their own plans to enshittify before I got my hopes up.
Hey, Big Ad Tech, come try enshitify my Rand McNally.
* Preprovisioning - devices have the right certificates and know about your corporate networks. They have the necessary apps and just work.
* Tracking - if a device is lost or stolen, monitor where it is and remotely lock or wipe it
* Monitoring - have a log to audit if someone does something malicious
* Security - reduce the chance of your employees installing malware, spyware, etc. whether by accident or intention
* Locking things down - put gates in the way of bad actions like copying sensitive data into public apps or clouds. Even if you're unable to block everything, attempts to block remind honest employees and provide strong evidence that anyone who proceeds was intentionally violating policy and should be fired.
Etc., etc.
I can understand the underlying reasons, you would be surprised how many employees have bad security hygiene, which becomes an issue when they have access to high value information, tokens, etc. But since they often somewhat draconian rules, they tend to have bad side-effects (similar to password reminders). E.g. Linux users will often set up ClamAV to fulfill the anti-virus requirement. However, ClamAV parses untrusted data in C code without any sandboxing, so it probably opens a new attack vector (as opposed to Windows Defender, which as far as AFAIR uses sandboxing or a micro-VM to parse untrusted data).
Even if your Corp doesn't want to do full user surveillance, there's still a lot of advantages to group policy. Roll out new software instantly, SSO enforcement, remote troubleshooting, etc.
SOC2 also encourages SSO.
a laptop in a stock configuration can be swapped out for a new one when it breaks. a laptop that has three years of accumulated customizations installed on it means that the employee wants their laptop back when it breaks, and they want it fixed ASAP.
when you're supporting a user who doesn't know how to type a URL into their web browser, it's a whole lot easier if you don't have to start that call with asking what web browser they're using.
Most of the rest of this stuff .. well, who is responsible if the laptop is compromised?
Not knowing about the exiting solutions to provision/manage Macs is one thing. Not knowing about them and claiming they're inferior because of what you didn't know is just bizarre.
I don't know what it is about the type of people who end up doing pc support, but an irrational dislike of Macs seems to be systemic. I worked in an IT department when Novell was still a thing, an a senior guy with years of Unix experience would make jokes about "toy operating system" while also alternating between screaming at and practically fellating windows XP.
Sorry Apple Intelligence.
Apple can already easily afford those developers. They’re not exactly running at a loss ;)
Plus given how each new iteration of macOS and iOS is a steady step backwards for usability, I don’t have a huge amount of trust in their abilities to fix Business if it had become a strategic product tomorrow.
They don’t want to compete with those partners, and wouldn’t be effective if they did. But, there’s a gap of smaller companies and institutions where they benefit from MDM capabilities but don’t have the budget or wherewithal to even know how to shop for MDM.
So they spend a bit of money, give Apple Store reps something to do and add an incentive to buy another iPhone.
I'm wrestling with something similar to this right now in Linux. The only real player that charges "enough" to have a "absolutely zero tolerance for base OS breakage" approach to OS development is Red Hat. Ubuntu LTS is more widespread but only really because it's $0 even for large businesses, and that's honestly reflected in it sometimes having hardware breakage during a version's initial two year mainstream support run. Having Windows's business backed level of "doesn't break" on hardware is rare on Linux.
And I’d be very skeptical any business user anywhere can skate by on the iCloud Free Tier. Of all the stingy free tiers, it’s that one.
If they cared, they would make a Teams/Slack equivalent, a Zoom Killer, maybe a Confluence Killer, and charge per head, and offer storage tiers comparable to what MS and GOOG do.
(And no, don’t even joke that Messages and FaceTime are Slack and Zoom killers.)
Intune and Windows are 'nice to have' but are not the business-business. The business is 365 (which runs on Macs and is worlds better than Apple's office suite + Apple's hosted email is god awful) and Azure.
After that, old copies of MSOffice.
Next-best would be a hodgepodge of the lighter options on Linux and such. Gnumeric, Abiword, that sort of thing. Not great, but at least they're light on resources and easy to use.
Distantly after that, LibreOffice.
Then, modern MSOffice in last place.
The only reason I'd count any of them as "worse" than modern MSOffice is that ~perfect office compatibility and a bulletproof excuse when things go wrong ("I'm also using MSOffice, don't know why your document isn't working") is non-negotiable in any business context.
[EDIT] Oh I forgot about Google. That's actually the true last-place. Modern MSOffice isn't worse than that. Christ the performance is awful.
The real competition is going to come from companies using the $599 Neo + Google Workgroups or whatever they're calling it - now Microsoft is cut out entirely.
The companies doing that are cut in two groups. The one that don't fully plan it and they need to do with complex excel or whatever files here and there and they're still in microsoft's grasp, or those that fully do and move to disposable chromebook.
scared of what? microsoft doesnt need to care about new businesses with under 50 employees at all. they have governments, banks, universities, colleges, and large non-tech enterprises completely locked down. small business with 10-50 devices are a drop in the ocean.
>New businesses under 50 employees are going to eat this up like there's no tomorrow.
i seriously doubt people outside of the tech or design spheres (i.e. most people) are going to go with apple for their businesses. when you are starting a business, you dont want to also have to teach all of your employees (and possibly yourself) how to use a new operating system.
you are going to look up "local IT company" or "local MSP", ask them to set you up, and they will integrate you into their existing microsoft ecosystem and send over some thinkpads, while you focus on your business.
One of our biggest clients had a sort of high end boutique set of businesses and two bigger businesses that interacted quite more with the regular public.
For the high end boutiques he asked us ONLY and ONLY to use mac's both because down there they are synonym of "prestige and class" and because the (very attractive) women that he hired for most roles were only familiar, or preferred mac's and were consumer's exclusively of apple's walled garden.
We had a bunch of customers like that, the real issue is that if this were on place I would have made it an option for my clients, eventually some things like security or software may move a significant number of users there, specially after the new mac mini, the neo and the ma air become budget options compared to a lot of what microsoft is offering in latam and some parts of Europe.
There's 0 way they have competent, reliable, working group calendaring.
Plus you don't get that proprietary format pst when you backup the mails.
25m Macs in calendar year 2025. Lenovo manufactured 19m PCs in Q4 2025.
Apple simply lacks volume.
Had plenty of issues getting specific specification Thinkpads: because they are largely sold through resellers and they don’t stock all SKUs I suppose.
87m
https://www.semiconductor-today.com/news_items/2026/mar/tern...
do you think lenovo would rather manufacture 19m PCs or 87m phones? i don't know, you raise an interesting point that is wrong.
Since the early 2000's, I've been bad mouthing Outlook, for a whole lot of reasons.
Let's just say: I miss Outlook. And it's still terrible.
Revenge of the Mac. Theirs simply no reason for any normal person to buy anything else. The year of Linux is deferred yet again.
Like, have any of you actually looked at street prices at Micro Center or Best Buy recently? In the price range of the higher model Neo you can get a Yoga 7 with an OLED convertible touch screen, 1TB storage, 16GB of RAM, along with a processor with better multicore and iGPU performance (Ryzen 7 AI 350) in a 2-in-1 convertible package that has better battery life doing office tasks.
Yes, the Neo is a cheap machine, with a lot of the exact same cheap machine compromises that are all over the $500-800 laptop market. Not really the best CPU, extremely cut-down battery, missing features, etc.
It even loses keyboard backlighting which is such a standard feature that it might be the only laptop on sale without it.
Losing the haptic trackpad means that the Acer you can buy at Micro Center for $530 with double the RAM and way better I/O (USB4, USB-A 3.0, microSD, and HDMI) has a pretty similar quality of trackpad experience. Yes, I tried both in store, the MacBook Neo's trackpad is really at the same level of all the PC competition.
MacBook Pro/Air Trackpad: 10/10
Best PC haptic trackpads available: 8/10
MacBook Neo trackpad: 7/10
Typical PC mechanical trackpads: 6 or 7/10
Hell, the older generation HP EliteBook 840 G10 that Micro Center sells as a business laptop makes a bunch more sense in a lot of ways. It's also an all-aluminum build thin and light system, comes with more RAM, which is upgradable, has a fingerprint reader, backlit keyboard, etc.
My wife currently has an old MacBook with 8GB of memory, and she hits the memory limit somewhat regularly just from web browsing and light productivity work. But whether more breathing room in terms of memory is worth almost double the price...
So many people are going to get burned by the hypnotism of these Neos. They're going to be gateways into being traded in within 2-3 years to get something with more RAM and storage when their owners find out how much they struggle with basic tasks due to insufficient RAM and storage.
If you actually go on Best Buy or Micro Center websites and look at street prices you'll realize that the Neo isn't actually that disruptive.
The trackpad is mid. I've tried it. It's mid enough that basically any PC can compete with the trackpad experience. There are multiple $500-800 PCs that are easy recommendations as alternatives, all with 16GB of RAM, all with modular storage.
The battery in the Neo is so small that even with the extremely efficient iPhone processor inside, basic Windows laptops can beat the Neo in battery life. Grab a Yoga 7 and you've got double the RAM, 2-in-1 convertible touch screen, and better battery life. Oh yeah, and you get a better OLED panel, too.
It's pretty plain to see that the Neo eats any competitors lunch at that price point. It isn't close.
Computing tasks related to real world scenarios don't need giant RAM repositories, as evident in that people could do these tasks just fine when 32 megabytes of RAM was enough.
Sure, the specs were good... on paper. But all of the little firmware bugs really destroyed the experience. Mine had both throttling and display output issues, which really suck for a development machine. Also Windows kind of sucks in general these days -- and when I installed Linux on the thing, then I got the classic lackluster power management issue where it would slowly discharge in my backpack. So there goes the battery life advantages.
Apple benefits from great vertical integration so their damn firmware usually works, and if there are issues, they tend to fix them, where as Lenovo and most PC integrators seem to be happy just abandoning products from last quarter and releasing fifteen new models instead. And it's posix and doesn't put ads in my start menu, right out of the box.
You know what people who outgrow their applebooks are going to do? Buy a macbook air or pro. They aren't going to buy a windows machine. Some might buy a linux machine.
It's also impossible to delegate this authority to anyone other than the account owner, and there's no concept of shared or service accounts, so nobody other than the account owner, with access to their 2FA method is able to do this.
Heaven forbid if the account owner was ever to put their 2FA method as a personal device / phone and then leave the company.
(Product idea: seal that also prints time and TOTP?)
I was essentially told that I could update the mailing address but going through the steps for that process would result in the name on my account being changed to the legal name. And so today, it still has my parents' mailing address. Thankfully they haven't moved.
There are basically two cases. If you use Microsoft, you are often already paying for Entra ID and Intune, then still adding the Apple-side pieces for Mac support: Apple Business Manager and often Jamf or Kandji. If you do not use Microsoft, you are buying the full stack yourself: Okta or JumpCloud for identity, Jamf or Kandji for device management, and Apple Business Manager for enrollment. Apple Business Manager is free, but the rest is not, and the cost adds up fast.
This means that, in practice, a managed Mac can easily end up costing close to twice as much to support as a Windows device.
You think there’s a standard way to do that? Just install company portal? That worked in exactly 1/20 cases. It’s an exciting new error on every single device. Awful. Just awful.
But if you also wanted identity, there are plenty of free selfhostable SSO/ID providers out there. If you're just starting out and not at the scale where a big Microsoft CoPilotM365OfficeWhatever contract makes sense, you probably don't even really have a need for a lot of this stuff. A minimum contract for Jamf Pro is like $5k a year or something. That's two well kitted developer MacBook Pros per year in license costs.
Jamf will do that. Apple will not.
I'd argue that (the low end of) Apple products are the cheapest they've ever been - the $599 iPhone 17e is below the inflation-adjusted price of the original iPhone, and at $599 the MacBook Neo is the cheapest launch price an Apple laptop has ever listed at (not even adjusting for inflation!)
The maximum amount you can spend at the high-end has certainly gone up over time, although the basic MacBook Pro Max config costs roughly the same as it's peer from 10-15 years ago - nobody's forcing folks to shell out for the 128GB of RAM (something that didn't exist on laptops at all till very recently)
MDMs like JamF offer override codes to disable activation lock. Hasn’t been an issue in my experience.
- They didn't sell your data to spammers, and
- Their website actually worked
https://i.ibb.co/zV8d9gbc/IMG-2177.jpg
They dynamically reveal 1-3 results and only show a “see more options in App Store” button when they feel like it.
Google and Apple require it for lots of mobile apps targeting certain consumer segments because some countries (eg: Brazil, IIRC? don't quote me on that) have chosen to use D&B as a qualified unique identifier of business legitimacy and it requires exposing personal information of your company's leadership to them.
* Predictability - eliminating the number of unknown factors that could cause a person to have issues using their computer. Reminds me of how a secretary I serviced was somehow able to install Google Desktop back in the day, and how that caused a massive argument between my boss and theirs when their computer needed to be re-imaged. Most IT approved programs are known to store user data in known locations on a computer, which makes backups and restorations very easy. Stuff like Google Desktop did not do that, which means likely breaking someone's workflow in the re-image process.
One point of contact for support.
Microsoft isn't going to get it together anytime soon, it's a new dawn.
Not really sure why you made that point only to wave it away later saying it's always been broken regardless
A lot of people have their iTunes accounts signed in on other devices which would do what you describe, but not family sharing.
The x86 market is massive and dwarfs Apple’s Mac manufacturing.
I could make 20M units of something and leave my resellers as bagholders who then have to sell years old hardware at a discount- and by the internal consistency of your logic: I would have the volumes.
Yes, apple shipped fewer laptops than dell in 2025. That's because Apple laptops started at $1100 in 2025.
They won't have a problem securing the chips for Mac Neo's, they're the same SOC as the iPhone. What, Apple is going to have an issue manufacturing a few million motherboards?
As for the PC makers: they don't innovate. Microsoft doesn't care who sells PCs, Intel doesn't care who sells PCs. Every PC maker is essentially an assembly company. If you appreciate Apple's innovation in the laptop space over the past x years, then you don't want Apple to be an OEM.
Employee does not trust the company having access to everything else in their personal iCloud account - photos, mails, messages, calendar, reminders, etc.
Employee registers a new Apple ID with company email, as it would be only used for downloading one single app.
So it’s not like a review stream is a requirement.
Moreover, even back when they did have back office tooling as a revenue stream (eg OSX Server), Apple still left it to slowly rot before finally discontinuing it.
So I just don’t think this is something anyone’s Apple cares enough about. If they did, then we wouldn’t be having this conversation to begin with.
Even with AWS I doubt many of the service teams make enough money to justify their existence alone.
https://www.apple.com/careers/pdf/HBR_How_Apple_Is_Organized...
Nobody at Microsoft is saying, "we don't care if Apple chips away at SMB because we have Call of Duty"
For example, if you want to use "data model" in Excel, it is only available in the windows version.
Did you know the MacBook Neo has no fan? It can go 2x faster FPS in games if it’s cooled better:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=lswbpVtAhrc
Even a simple quiet and mostly-off fan would have been a $5 addition to the system that would have boosted performance by ~10%. But Apple wanted to make an iPad computer.
Apple advertises their subscription services directly in the system settings when you buy the system (they give you a trial that is shown as a system settings notification and when you refer it they do the thing where you have to cancel on the last day or else forfeit the remaining trial term before it’s over; accidental subscription dark pattern where you can’t turn off auto-renew without forfeiting remaining time) and also advertises apple subs via toast notifications.
As far as device firmware, I dunno, I felt like my Intel MacBook Pro 16” had pretty shit firmware that ended up abandoned because Apple went straight to M1 and the whole T2 thing where they tried to customize Intel’s stack never really worked all that well. Apple almost certainly half-assed that machine knowing their next platform was on the way.
Like the whole “instant open lid wake from sleep” that was great in the past but turned into crazy lag on those late Intel machines.
Oh yeah and I just got my last settlement check for my 2016 butterfly keyboard. That machine was a lovely ownership experience.
So this idea that only PC laptops have firmware issues and bad long term support…idk man, I just don’t fully buy that. I’m sure Apple is mostly better but I’ve had enough bad experiences that I don’t consider them to be anything wildly special.
> I just got my last settlement check for my 2016 butterfly keyboard
That’s nice, I didn’t get anything
Sorry in advance to continue ranting about this, but the consumer-hostile bit is it’s used as a price segmentation strategy. Consumers don’t care if their laptop has a modest quiet cooling fan, but Apple acts like customers hate them. The cooling fan inside the Nintendo Switch has alienated zero potential customers, is basically inaudible, and it’s still an extremely portable device.
The only reason the MacBook Air M5 is slower than the MacBook Pro M5 is the lack of cooling. It’s done on purpose. It’s not “save costs and offer a cheaper product,” it’s “purposefully remove a ‘free’ benefit to push you up the product lineup.”
Similarly, it would have cost Apple almost nothing to bump the Neo to 12GB of memory but they’re going to hold back that upgrade so that first gen buyers buy their next system sooner.
I think I got the settlement email because I took my system in to Apple to get the keyboard fixed and the lawyers for the class action had my contact info as a result.
At this point to take part in modern life a smart phone is required. Having captured a market for an essential "luxury good" doesn't mean they're doing something right. It just means we have no other choices.
As far as identifying a bug in the software and getting it fixed, or requesting a feature, you run into a brick wall. Taking that feedback from customers is not the Apple way. This is why there is a market for third party MDM companies in the first place.
Like I said, the MacBook Neo is squarely a low-end device. Make excuses all you want, it trades RAM, storage, keyboard backlight, and battery size for a nice chassis and portability.
Think about it this way: If you loose 5 days of productivity then you have lost $500. A Windows or Linux machine is guaranteed to cause many more days than that of productivity loss per year.
And with "normal people" I mean everybody who is not a developer or hacker, including millions and millions of people who work professionally with computers.
The RAM doesn't matter as much as people here insist. What do I care that my computer has half the RAM, when it completes any and every task blazingly fast and never freezes up or crashes? RAM turns into an abstract.
Look at it this way: You're arguing that a diesel truck is always better than a motorcycle because it has more horsepowers. Okay, but the motorcycle gets me where I want twice as fast and is more comfortable, and doesn't break down all the time. That's what I care about.
It’s just a biased take that is 100% subjective.
I think this narrative comes from the Windows XP user experience from 30 years ago that no longer exists.
Yeah, the RAM fucking matters because Google Chrome has 90% browser marketshare, because Spotify is the market leader, not Apple Music, because more people use Microsoft Outlook than Apple Mail, more people use Slack than…well, Apple doesn’t have a workplace chat program. These are big memory-sucking apps.
8GB of RAM is great for Apple native optimized apps but regular users run many more things than that.
Apple knows the score internally, this won't change the world any more than the 12" Retina Macbook did.
The company that captures 60-70% of the global PC industry's profits. Definitely completely insignificant.
Apple has known the score internally for decades and is laughing that score all the way to the bank.
Consumers do not want the Mac. Datacenters don't want Apple Silicon. People want the iPhone, they want Airpods, but the M-series Macs have spent 5 years changing absolutely nothing.
I am not sure why it’s eating competitors lunch when many very well-regarded competitors are in the price range available at stores.
What’s better about a Neo than a Yoga 7? Same price range.
https://www.bestbuy.com/product/lenovo-yoga-7-2-in-1-copilot...
This is $40 more than the Neo’s top model and you get double the RAM and an OLED convertible touch screen.
But I don't know why you cannot see it as terrible for the PC makers that Apple finally has entered the sub-1000$ market. Since Apple has existed they've been in the high-end of the market, and now they're not. The Lenovo I'm sure is fine, but what it doesn't have is clarity of purpose. The Neo is a laptop and nothing else. Which leads me to question whether that very complicated Lenovo hinge will survive the 7 years my Mac laptops give me.
Is "clarity of purpose" ghost of Steve Jobs speak for refusing features to customers?
Why is it so hard to conceive of a student wanting to write hand-written notes on a 2-in-1 laptop? Apple would rather sell you a second device.
Why are we assuming the hinge on 2-in-1 laptops can't survive? These are not new products. These are well-regarded, highly reviewed products from the #1 PC manufacturer in the world (Apple is #4).
If you already have an iPhone, there are lovely little integration things that sound like small beans but are really valuable over time, eg.:
- copy-paste text between devices
- get verification codes from text messages to auto-fill in Safari on Mac
I don't know if Yoga 7 is good in this regard, but when you open the lid on a Macbook, it's awake and interactive before you've finished swinging it open. And battery life is outstanding. I'd miss things like that.
The whole "instant on when you open the lid" thing is not impressive in 2026. Even with Linux my laptop is instant-on from sleep in a very similar fashion.
And, again, here I am as a broken record repeating this since nobody is listening because they've been indoctrinated by Apple marketing:
The MacBook Neo does not have as good battery life as the more expensive models! In comparison testing with other similar PC laptops the battery life is very middle of the road!
But that's it, thats the innovation. The singular one since he died. I think my point stands tbh: everything is half-hearted since Steve died.
The one thing that shines is Mac outlook where on windows you'll soon have to put up with that joke of a web app.
The market may not yet be 365-sized but as GP mentioned: it's there.
And there are young people arriving at an age to open a business who have never used a Windows computer in their entire life. To them Microsoft is the company that make the virus-infested, slow, computers full of ads they see at their grandparents' house. That cohort ain't buying Windows / buying Office / using Azure.
Like really Apple, that's your device "locking"? I could test activate my work Mac with my personal Apple ID while doing this, no alarm bells, nothing, effectively "It's your laptop now".
Fortunately around the same time, JamF ended the practice of the mandatory Jamf JumpStart (£5K fee), which finally made Jamf a feasible option for the company I was in at the time.
The point is to make sure there’s not a mess on the other end when you enforce SSO for MAIDs.
Apple’s documentation for ABM and ABE is atrocious, but they do manage to document a bunch of footguns, just poorly and in seemingly bizarre places.
For example, ABE doesn’t support MDM migration (either as source or destination), despite the fact that the feature launched with macOS/iOS/iPadOS 26 and is supported by other MDM solutions.
And you cannot push custom config profiles with ABE which declare a non-Apple preference domain. Utter nonsense.
If you’re using the full ABM-with-ADE and MDM stack, it’s expected that you push apps to employees.
You can also use Munki to make apps available to users. You can just push only Munki via MDM if you want, and let it manage app installs and self service installs for you. There are caveats.
The Just Josh Tech review of the MacBook Neo demonstrated that the Neo cannot do a fractional resolution playback of a very simple Adobe Premiere project. We are not even talking about doing any editing work, simply playing back the project in the timeline.
The ~$500 Acer loaded with 16GB of RAM performed much better on that workflow.
I think it's worth pointing out that the base RAM on a MacBook Air was 8GB six years ago.
The Neo is a low end machine that trades RAM, storage, keyboard backlight, I/O and battery capacity for fit and finish and aesthetics.
It is a machine that will introduce many people to the Mac, and it will be very successful, but I also think it is a machine that for many people will not last them a very long time. And who knows, that might have the same negative impact that cheap Windows PCs have had for Microsoft in the long run, which was the whole reason they started their premium Surface brand.
Well, you're certainly not running the same code on both systems. Some applications absolutely use less RAM on MacOS... some use less on Windows.
Some of this is due to the various builds of the software itself, some of it is due to architectural differences in memory management, CPU instructions, differing memory access capabilities, etc.
8GB is tight for power users, definitely. But it is certainly very usable for on a Mac for the average person.
It feels to me a lot like past cut down systems such as the eMac or that horrendous 21” 1080p Intel iMac that sort of make sense by being cheap but don’t make as much sense in wider context of available choices.
Of course, I think the Neo will be a huge success and is a good product overall, but a product where an informed buyer can do better.
It is potentially a purchase decision that really won’t last as long as a cheap Acer with 16GB of memory, even though the Neo is built better.
Source: dealing with dozens of Mac devices with 8gb memory that clients had which all can't handle their workloads. I've switched whole companies from Mac back to pcs. And I've watched companies try switch to Apple and go from reasonably problem free operations to a nightmare of broken systems. Want to use apples data transfer to migrate from windows to Mac? Good luck it just plain doesn't work.
Device management on macs is an absolute nightmare along with the hell hole that is apple ID and the app store. Not to mention their absolutely abysmal performance with rmm. You can literally configure a machines permissions to allow remote access apps to work then a week later they just break the software and your access to manage the device is broken too.
Apple products are absolutely terrible for business from phones to laptops to their entire office suite.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/surface/devices/surface-lapt... but at $900, and the Neo literally just being a Mac and doing everything any other Mac does (except some hardware related limitations like driving a 6k monitor, but doing 4k is "enough for most") means you save $300 and don't run into annoyances like "can't install my printer driver".
Yes, it's a little bit better than the alternatives, but, critically, not by much. Not by enough to sway a purchase decision.
It's not better than diving board mechanical trackpads by enough of a margin for most consumers to notice.
Also, macOS over-relies on trackpad gestures. You don't really need them anywhere near as much in Windows or Linux. This is Apple's intention: to try and sell more proprietary trackpads, because they know if their OS was optimized for normal mice consumers would just buy the cheap $20 mice that are better than their $100+ accessories.
The PC industry barely has to adapt to compete with the Neo. I think we'll start seeing that in late 2026 and 2027 when competitors arrive on Apple's doorstep.
I have used countless modern PC devices, including some from Acer. Few PCs have a trackpad of the level of the Neo and none from Acer.
Your logic with "Apple's intentions" reveals a person who is incapable of decent analysis; macOS relies on gestures a lot because the vast majority of macOS devices are laptops. The desktop market is an after thought because the people keep buying laptops. That's it. There's no conspiracy, just a focus on the devices that the users choose to buy.
The PC industry has almost no shot of competing with the Neo. You have to spend much more than $1000 to get a nice object that looks and feels nice. Right now, the PC industry is selling Old Navy products when Hermès is the same price. That is a real problem.
Microsoft is going to be fine. Companies that rely on selling low end devices to consumers are going to suffer.
Back in the normal world people don't use Linux. If you have the funds you can get an M4 Air with 16GB for 800$.
I still have a 8GB M1 air, it's fine for filling out paper work and watching YouTube, which is the extent of what most people do
And the best thing is that you can format the drive, install Linux, and be completely free of Microsoft and Apple.
Only biased fanboy people say otherwise.
It also doesn't run iTerm.
I'm neither biased nor a fanboy.
I used desktop Linux for a decade or more, moved to MacOS for better usability, but it's kind of gone to shit.
Did up a home windows install for some "modern gaming", but disgusted with Microsoft's rapeware tactics.
Might be time to move to Linux again. Already have it on the kids PCs. Seems to run plenty of stuff from Steam just fine.
Windows: Yes, the user experience is that bad. My observations of Windows users is that it's hard for them to get things done effectively because of the faults of the system. Talking about non-hacker people, who might be very proficient in photo editing or spreadsheets or word processing.
Just booting a Windows machine is a chore. These have the same specs or better specs than Macs, but how come you can instantly use a Mac by opening the lid, and Windows PCs take their merry minutes to be ready?
I won't even mention malware and such.
For a normal, non-technical person, there isn't any problem in using stock Mac Mail, Safari, and native productivity tools. And honestly, those memory hogs you mention aren't a problem either on Apple silicon. It's still faster to use than on a PC with double the RAM.
Do you have any benchmarks that show this “faster than a PC with double the RAM” claim?
Because when I saw real world tests on the Neo versus the Acer Aspire AI 14, the Acer machine was faster at video playback in Adobe Premiere (as an example) due to the lack of memory pressure.
I can tell you at work we have a mixed environment and the Windows users and Mac users don’t seem to have any difference in difficulty doing things like showing their work in presentations. Our company metrics show zero difference in employee productivity based on what operating system they use (I’m a manager and can see these things).
Or there's a ton of pop-ups of every kind when they're using the machine. Most people just click the biggest button on any popup appearing, without even looking at what it says.
And these are people who work professionally with their computers, but they're not sysadmins or operating system experts.
I don't doubt what you say about Adobe Premiere playback speed. That might be an exception where more RAM does actually matter. But that's hardly a reason to dismiss the 8GB Macbooks. They are great for most users and most professional users.
So the company that makes between 50-60% of all profits in personal computers has created a market where it makes 100% of the profits, but albeit smaller than the whole PC market. That's terrrrible, what was Apple thinking!
Market share is far from everything when people live in poverty and do not have money to spend on good hardware and software. Apple makes stuff for affluent people, and then makes a ton of money from those rich folks. Making Apple the most valuable company in the history of humanity. Boy, that's a terrible place to be in!
> Apple makes stuff for affluent people
is just repeating the original claim upthread:
>> they've priced the consumer/pro-sumer out of the market prettymuch and so B2B is the more sustainable paying population.
Once again you retreat to anecdata; how can you prove that used Mac laptops are not popular?
Really? As far as I can tell, consumers mostly would love to use Macs, but aren't willing to pay the price of entry
> Datacenters don't want Apple Silicon
Do you know how many people salivate at the prospect of an M-based return of the Xserve?
You clearly keep up with tech news, kudos! I’ve seen no changes from other major pc manufacturers in response to Apple silicon, at all. /s
They really aren’t that far off as it is. I’ve brought up a number of similarly priced models in my other comments on this thread.
Even on the premium end, the surface laptop really isn’t that far off on pricing. It was priced and specced to essentially match the Air. I think there’s no reason a cut down model couldn’t match the Neo.
I think the most important thing is for Microsoft to crack down more on OEMs’ use of third party junkware like McAfee. They need to just disallow it as a hard policy. Hopefully the Neo is also a wake up call to Microsoft.
I also think that an x86 processor that performs 20-40% slower really isn’t a big deal in the context of the Neo’s competitors. They mostly need to match the pricing and build quality. Nobody cares that the hybrid Toyota Corolla is slower than the hybrid Honda Civic when they go buy the car. They care that it has the attributes they’re looking for (packaging, reliability, quality, price). And I think the Neo’s great chip is hampered by RAM anyway. The SoC package was designed for a mobile system that only has partial multitasking.
In the end we just made do with intune. It's a lot less capable for Mac but these days you can get by with it.
You just have to secure it properly. Have limits to how many one admin can wipe etc. But trust me every company with managed IT assets has this capability. Often even in BOYD scenarios! Stryker just failed to secure access to it properly and to set sensible limits.
However, the feature isn't very effective in the field. It's very unlikely for an attacker to be smart enough to bypass the password on a stolen Mac which is needed to connect it to WiFi, yet at the same time be dumb enough to connect it to the unfiltered internet so it can receive the wipe command. The overlap between these sets of people is almost zero. We do fire a wipe at every stolen computer but I doubt it ever actually happens. If it ever happens it'll be a total end user fail (like writing the password on a post-it with the laptop)
Either you will lose it to a common thief who won't be able to breach the login (99% of cases), or to a really targeted adversary who has cellebrite or something similar and won't connect it to the internet ever again. This is still the most risky scenario because if someone like that steals it, there's bound to be something really valuable on it.
In practice this is something more suited to mobile devices.
For me it’s completely inverted; Google is top place, then Libreoffice, then MSOffice, then anything by Apple last place.
I hate modern MSOffice's UI, plus it's full of slow, heavy webtech which deducts a lot of points from basically anything for me. Google's leaks memory (like most of their software... so do Gmail tabs) and is so slow that it introduces a ton of input latency, which drives me nuts, I hate to type in it, aside from my experience with most of its formatting and editing features being that they're very janky even by the standards of GUI word processors. Both are very heavy on resources, which means they have a huge hurdle to overcome on the feature side before I'd consider them anything but extremely-unpleasant.
Old (like... '00s) MSOffice is pretty good because it's not such a resource hog, and the UI used to be really good.
I’ve written many comments criticizing this. Do you use a lot of keyboard shortcuts when you use Numbers or Pages or Keynote or do you use the trackpad/mouse a lot? I generally find these apps and others lacking on the keyboard front, by which I mean that it’s almost impossible to use them without a trackpad or a mouse. I can completely live with just a keyboard on Excel or LibreOffice Calc.
BTW, I hate all the MS Office applications (and find them quite buggy and annoying) except for Excel. Maybe I’m just a lot more used to using Excel.
[1] https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/numbers/tana45192591/m...
A lot of menu options don’t seem to have keyboard shortcuts. I know I can assign them, but defaults should be better.
But the second one hits harder for me: “Or is your issue that Numbers has different keyboard shortcuts from the ones you're used to in Excel?” Considering that Numbers came much later than Excel, some of the common ones could’ve been directly adapted with Mac specific substitutions (like using Cmd instead of Ctrl).
And you hit the nail on the head with the whole 'Office = the document always opens/looks right' thing.
(Disclosure: I write 99% of my stuff in Emacs now, so I'm not going to go that far out on a limb for iWork. It's just that it's the best "Works"-style suite that I've used.)
I also like Apple's office suite, the problem is network effects. I'd even argue most people don't actually need MS Office. The amount of people using PowerQuery, VBA, etc. is probably less than 2% of users.
The problem is, because everyone else (in business) already has and uses office, if you want to collaborate, that's what you have to use. Open file formats didn't win out in the end.
MS Office collaboration features work well these days but when you are using Office 365 for work, it's almost inevitable that different files get saved locally, on MS teams, Sharepoint, and OneDrive. It's a version control nightmare.
I really like google's suite for work because it nudges everyone towards using only one location for all files, without a other places to save a copy. And it's good enough with Office files that you might only need a few roles to also need MS Office.
Why in heaven's name is it nearly impossible to do the same with Powerpoint is a mystery. You still have to paste a bit image.
This line right he is where I will always stop reading any reply, and block any YouTube channel that uses it in a title. Mind numbingly overused. It's literally verbal clickbait.
It's an absolute failure of the MDM server administrator for allowing such things, not on Apple.
Yes, in many ways they’re bringing a very polished product to the space. But in many other ways, look closely and you’ll see the cut corners.
Again, I’ve felt the Neo in person. The chassis feels nice, sure. It’s not built to the same level as Apple’s other products, though.
The bottom plate is not CNCed, it’s a stamped aluminum plate. That means there is variation in the gap along the bottom of the laptop between the man case and the bottom plate that doesn’t exist on the Air or Pro.
Again, the trackpad is good but is worse than many haptic trackpads offered by PC manufacturers like Lenovo.
Again, if you think the PC industry has no chance of competing, go to your retailer website and look at street prices. Look at laptop reviews from places like Just Josh Tech on YouTube. PC manufacturers aren’t making trash.
Acer is actually a great example of a really solid PC. I felt the $530 model Micro Center is selling and it seemed to do the job: thin and light enough, felt sturdy, similar trackpad to the Neo, better specs and I/O. I’d say I only wanted the display to be a little better, though on the plus side it was bigger than the Neo’s cramped 13”.
This isn’t 2005. There is a misguided assumption to assume that PCs are still trash like they were 10 years ago. They just aren’t.
One little random bit to point out: there are 100 million Mac users globally as of 2024. There are more than 900 million PC gamers globally.
So, if I’m a high school student or college student who has money for one computer and I am a member of that group of 900 million PC gamers, I might just go get a last gen Lenovo LOQ with the RTX 4050 or something similar in the current gen from someone like MSI with an RTX 5050.
I would deal with a chunkier plastickier laptop but it would get similar battery life to the Neo for office tasks and I could actually play games. 16GB RAM. Modular storage. Price is around $700.
And I’ll be honest, that trackpad ain’t gonna be much worse than the Neo. And I’ll get to keep my backlit keyboard and have some I/O.
I stopped reading here.
This is absolutely the problem - with the added issue of platform support.
I’m the only Mac user in our company of 15, which means I’m also the only person that can open a .pages file. Anyone can read a .docx, and if authored in word it will actually look the same on both computers.
It's not "the end" yet. Many governments and sufficiently motivated orgs are switching to ODF - it's only over for proprietary file formats that pretend they can stand toe-to-toe with docx. By eschewing open formats you're making all the mistakes of .docx with none of the upsides of the network effect.
In a small shop that might work but not in an enterprise with ISO norms and security certifications to meet.
