Why are Flock employees watching our children?(substack.com) |
Why are Flock employees watching our children?(substack.com) |
Just as one example Zoneminder [1][2] can be clustered and distributed assuming a large campus. I'm sure there must be other open source NVR's that can do the same. School IT staff should try out a small deployment first and then extend it year over year. Local AI should detect and alert on fights, abuse from teachers, anyone with a weapon, someone injured, etc...
Bob can be granted access to specific cameras that relate to his role to avoid Repetitive Strain Injury RSI among other issues.
[1] - https://zoneminder.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
[2] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us20t1gQPOE [video][48 mins][tutorial using LXC on Debian and Proxmox]
[3] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzLV9Agnou8 [video][24 mins][ceph tutorial on proxmox][cat included]
If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance. There are probably some school IT admins reading this. ZM has great documentation and tutorial videos in my opinion. It is also used by a large number of corporations.
Just my own philosophy but I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand and will just lead to dead cameras and empty NVR's when law enforcement need them the most. It will be one of the first maintenance contracts that get cut from budgets.
Lots of great, free, widely adopted open source technology solutions aren't adopted by public sector because their legal staff won't accept the liability of not having a paid contract that makes guarantees. Great use of tax dollars.
Not everyone grows up in such an idyllic environment where there is an active and engaged PTA or concerned parents who feel like they have a voice. Moreover the perceived need for security cameras is probably inversely proportional to places with active PTA groups (though maybe not). Either way, suggesting tech solutions is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
My gripe will be the music they are playing whilst I am moving the deck chairs on the Titanic. Enough ragtime already. I will take some Moonlight Bay please [1].
Oh and to your point of course there will be places that can't do this. They should be focusing on the proper disassembly cleaning lubricating and reassembly of their Hi-Point's. Such schools should have mandatory handgun safety courses like the old days. Or current times for the Swiss [2].
Well I would still want all the parents to be in the loop even if many won't care.
Also:
- Yup let the board know.
- Notify all biker clubs in North America that explicitly protect children.
- Notify the local Sheriff.
- Notify Chris Hansen to keep an eye on Bob.
This seems to just be a regular progression, and offering some open source alternative to oppression is amusing.
why do sales employees have access (or ability to request access) to camera feeds at all?
i would like to know what other cameras adam snow, bob carter, cameran whiteman view regularly. "search him hard drive" as the kids say.
(p.s. https://www.ycombinator.com/companies/flock-safety, sadly the "latest news" section does not have "flock sales employees caught watching kids", just hundreds of millions in funding to realize the minority report)
can you imagine sales force or dynamics poking around some random company's live data during a demo to some other company?
I made a rule. If you do this I cannot possibly trust you. I will never buy your products.
It's insane to me.
I feel like it really does a lot of harm to public trust. But also most people, even people pretty engaged in the community, just don't know or care about the consequences of being surveilled constantly. It's very hard to convey to them the potential harm this is doing to them or their kids.
This is just the beginning.
Although there are many trends of Dunwoody PD officers and staff monitoring the live view cameras on the JCC’s fitness studios, gyms, and pools [...]
I doubt this aligns with any guidelines on effective crime prevention.
2016: Uber employees 'spied on ex-partners, politicians and Beyoncé'
2022: OnlyFans creator has alleged that she had sexual intercourse with multiple Meta employees and it successfully reversed the ban on her Instagram account
If Flock is just giving everyone in their company access to production data it's not that the sector needs ,more regulation, it's that someone need to audit Flock for compliance.
Like literally every other YC company lol.
Bob also has some interesting searches. On September 30th, 2025 - Bob looked at just one camera. This camera is in the gymnastics room of the JCC. I personally am curious about why a sales employee from Flock would be viewing the gymnastics room. I think this also deserves an explanation.
The implied and speculated motivation is that Bob, and the other Flock employees watching people without their consent, is voyeurism. That means to look at people in otherwise-private places and in various states of undress, for sexual gratification. It is not uncommon for someone who believes nobody is looking to even adjust their clothes on their body, briefly exposing genitals, nipples, etc.
This is very concerning, but even more so because this includes children.
I get the sentiment but just note that if you discuss this in public your answer to the problem of staff watching video of kids is... less regulation?
The software running on an NVR is only one small part of a surveillance system. I'd be much more worried about the choice IP cameras themselves, which are notoriously problematic. And if you look at the cameras which are well regarded and high quality -- typically those vendors have their own NVR solutions which are also well regarded and already tested to work well with their cameras.
> I am leery of expensive turn-key commercial solutions as they lead to proprietary solutions that school IT won't understand
If IT can't adequately evaluate and choose a turn-key solution, I doubt their ability to piece together their own system.
> If there are better options than Zoneminder please do share the tutorial videos with others here so they have greater options. I am old and clunky so ZM works for me. Some may even say old and clunky can mean reliable and low maintenance.
The last time I tried Zoneminder, the problem I had was that the detection algorithms were so bad that I found them useless. The cameras I had were all outdoors and their algorithm struggled to strike a balance between detecting legitimate motion and not falsely triggering when lighting conditions changed. I tried some other projects that had better algorithms for filtering out changes in exposure and lighting (I forget which ones), but there's also some now that have AI object detection. But ultimately I've migrated away because commercial options got better, cheaper, and more feature filled.
If I picked a new system today I'd probably try something like: https://www.ui.com/us/en/camera-security I don't have any personal experience with it but the value looks incredible.
Fair enough. I've had them set off by deer no matter how hard I try to avoid it. I think they know they are getting my attention.
For what it's worth in a school setting there can be monitors in multiple admin offices, the admin waiting area, school police office and other offices to group source monitoring of strange activity. Otherwise if nothing else it is useful to be able to go back an hour, a few hours or days to verify the "he said, she said" accusations often uttered in school.
They don't take it seriously because of some moral, "We care about your privacy" stance. They take it seriously because if there's something that makes them look bad in there, they want to be able to control the narrative. If a Flock camera catches and officer doing something they shouldn't be doing, the agency/FBI doesn't want a disgruntled Flock employee to be able to sign in and grab that video and give it to the news.
This sounds a lot like BD guys doing demos with random data from a customer that agreed to show allow access and a local citizen getting very bent out of shape about it.