The design used to be futuristic-novel. But novelty passes - it now looks like a car pressed to pieces in a shredder. And it is very expensive. But most importantly, after Elon did his right-arm raise gesture twice, even aside from mass-firing people at DOGE or elsewhere ... does anyone still want to give more money to a very strange oligarch, who uses money to buy more influence and opinions here? Or buys a platform to turn it into a propaganda amplifier for his strange remarks about race and ethnicity?
Maybe that's why their cars ship with their windshields glued on, all the time, or all of their brake pads, all of the time, or secured body panels, all the time.
Or maybe he should have refrained from commenting?
It's just ridiculous.
But they could have included an error factor in the designing process. I thought this was standard for manufacturing. And they could have done more robust testing which, again, I thought was pretty standard for manufacturing.
They almost certainly did. But that error factor is a guess based on limited testing. You never know your true variability until you're building at scale. Waterfall development doesn't work in the real world any better than it does in software.
Nobody is booing the recall, they’re booing a company that makes the bad choices that lead to recalls like this. E.g. doorhandleless firetrap trashcan car with sharp corners and a high front for extra pedestrian-murder.
Oh, very rigorous engineering standards. The wheels aren't supposed to fall off for a start.
The Front Fell Off: https://youtu.be/3m5qxZm_JqM?si=DprOulmmDK-H76LX
2026
Audi Q8 e-tron:
"Popular electric car recalled due to brake pedal problem" [1]
A problem with a "screw connection" (unclear whether this is a mounting screw or it serves some other purpose) can cause the brake pedal to malfunction.
or, in 2024
Audi Q4 e-tron, Volkswagen ID.3, ID.4, ID.5 and ID.7:
"Dangerous error in popular electric cars: brakes can cease functioning" [2]
It says that the ABS pump could drop off which would cause brake fluid to leak out which in turn causes the brakes to cease functioning.
[1] https://carup.se/popular-elbil-aterkallas-for-fel-pa-bromspe... (Swedish)
[2] https://nyheter24.se/nyheter/motor/1296418-farliga-felet-i-p... (Swedish)
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/vw-id4-recalled-over-door...
> "Dangerous error in popular electric cars: brakes can cease functioning" [2]
> It says that the ABS pump could drop off
Using a mechanical ABS in an electric car might be part of the problem
So worst case you're rolling down the road on a chassis with no body panels, except you're not really rolling if the wheels fall off.
Hmm.. good job we're not letting in those cheap Chinese EV's and sticking to this top quality homemade stuff.
Meanwhile, about 63% of Tesla Model Ys failed their first mandatory inspection in Finland. The Tesla Model 3 did a bit better at 59% of cars failing their first inspection for the same model year. However, they're faring a lot worse than the third worst car, the Dacia Duster, at 23%, or other EVs like the Volkswagen ID.4 at 6%.
'Vibe-Engineering'
The insane part is the number of people who were somehow able to put up $120k for one, and proudly boast how awesome their new car was even though it spent most of its time in the repair shop or breaking doing very basic things, and failing to do "Truck" things that even my hatchback can manage.
Presumably it's not a coincidence that so many of them were bought by brand new weed shop owners.
Possible
While mechanical failures can happen in all companies, that do sounds like an inexperienced design (maybe from Tesla, maybe from a partner?)
It’s the most poorly engineered “truck” there is. Can’t tow. Can’t haul (stupid bed design). It’s just a glorified pavement machine.
Go look back at the original concept art. The actual delivered vehicle dimensions are totally different, so he didn’t even succeed at that part. They couldn’t build what he wanted. It’s way more boxy and looks like shit on the road.
And lol at 173 total affected vehicles. What a failure.
173...
That being said I wouldn't touch a Tesla with a barge pole for reasons numerous.
At least in the U.S. below a certain ~longitude~ latitude it's quite common.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/honda-...
What a disaster. I don't really know anyone who is voluntarily buying Teslas when there are so many other viable options in an increasingly crowded marketplace.
I don't know why, I buy trucks to haul stuff. (and I really wish there was an affordable truck to haul stuff with - everything I can find is 12+ years old and showing age)
Two counterpoints: for all the opinionated criticisms, the cybertruck is at least quite noticeable, and thusly you may think that they are a higher proportion of trucks than they really are.
Also, you're far more likely to see them drive around in certain locales due to the cost, so that may introduce additional biases.
> but it’s “not aware of any collisions, fatalities, or injuries” related to the recall.
It also, strangely, doesn't count fatality incidents.
No crashes, injuries or fatalities have occurred. Much bigger recalls from other auto-makers in the past:
Toyota: 8-9 million worldwide recalled for "sticking" accelerator pedals and floor mats that would trap pedals, and a $1.2B DOJ penalty.
Kia 2015: also sticky pedals in various models.
Ford (1970's): 1.5 million vehicles recalled due to read-end collision fires from the fuel tank placement.
Lmao
https://www.carsales.com.au/editorial/details/wheels-falling...
Shock about the standards that led to cybertruck wheels falling off? Totally right. Discussion about Tesla engineering practices, servicing and business operations, and the influence of their leader on product - absolutely.
But statements like “No one is hauling anything in these anyway. The Cybertruck is a midlife crisis car for white-collar Indian dudes with money.” (Which, to be fair, was flagged so 100% thank you to the community)… or another user I won’t name who has multiple 3-4 word replies like “no it can’t” which is totally helpful in a discussion, are growing.
I know this is a messy topic; hate on the cybertruck and Tesla overall is high and we are all in a different headspace vs pre-covid. And I still come to hacker news because this is the best discussion forum left… but I’m sad about what we’ve lost along the way.
Can you name the truck that's been recalled twelve times, Costs less each month 'cause nobody's buying mine?
Cybertruck! Cybertruck!
(Whip crack!)
Her trim falls off when you drive through rain, The steering locks up on the highway lane!
Cybertruck! Cybertruck!
Top of the line in utility trucks! Started at a hundred, now they're slashing bucks!
She's got a price that drops faster than her resale value, And a windshield wiper motor that'll surely fail you!
Cybertruck! Cybertruck!
(Whip crack!)
Twelve recalls in a single year! Drive-by-wire that fills your heart with fear!
The accelerator pedal pops right off the floor, But Elon says it's you who doesn't love her more!
Cybertruck!
She rusts if you look at her wrong in the dew, The tonneau cover works... for a week or two!
She's marked down like a Kmart blue-light special now, A stainless steel disaster and a broken vow!
Cybertruck! Cybertruck!
(Whip crack!)
Whoaaa, Cybertruck!
CYBERTRUCK!
Everything about this company is cursed at this point. The jeering masses are just as bad as the CEO.
The cars themselves though continue to be really pretty great. Though maybe not the truck.
I'm assuming it's a misphrasing or typo and the issue is that the stud holes in the wheel hub rotor can elongate, leading to the studs coming out. This can and likely would absolutely cascade into a wheel falling off; I've seen it many times in cheapo endurance racing series - once one stud is loose, the adjacent studs gradually loosen and eventually the wheel separates. If the issue is longitudinal (slotting) it's even more likely to lead to a rapid separation event.
That quote is from Tesla, in the linked article. That says the wheel can fall off.
Musk: Well, that’s not very typical. Most vehicles are designed so the wheels don’t fall off.
Interviewer: But these ones did.
Musk: Well obviously. That’s why we recalled them. But wheel retention remains a very high priority at Tesla.
Interviewer: What caused it?
Musk: A minor component interaction that generated maximum freedom.
Interviewer: Freedom?
Musk: For the wheel.
"Where we're going, we're not going to need wheels."
Did they glue on these wheels too, like the pedals that fell off?
For me a car is essentially a tool so it needs to be practical. But for others it's a hobby.
Doing a half baked job on a part for your super low volume "we only make this to advertise a low starting price" model is something just about any OEM would do.
I bet their supplier just took whatever Chevy Van rotor they had that was close and modified it to fit and as a result it got a little thin somewhere.
Edit: Nope, I couldn't find a picture but I found pictures of big brake kits for the 2wd and clearly it's not an old (read: cheap) integrated hub and rotor.
But agree, cybertruck is a really silly purchase for numerous reasons. The only reason you'd buy it is to signal your support for Elon. It's a very bad vehicle.
The overly cautious recall announcement was promptly clarified to owners by dealerships, and impacted a small subset. (I have a Civic.)
It is an electric car after all
The battery pack is by far heavier than the motors. In the r1 they are also positioned with the wheels (quad) or front/back (dual) so weight distribution is great.
If the slate has a single motor and is RWD then I would assume the weight might be biased toward the rear where the drive unit is powering the rear wheels. Either way the motor is relatively small compared to ICE trucks and that’s where you want the weight anyway for a RWD vehicle.
Am I mistaken?
That said, your explanation makes sense. Slate engineers claimed it would handle well, but it was vague enough that I'd want more detail before I believe them.
(Not digging at you, I feel the same way you do. I just think it’s weird and amazing!)
You can see the Oct 6 2022 recall information here, including what they instructed people to do: https://rivian.com/support/article/recall-information
It was weeks before the guy drove out and checked mine.
Volume wise it’s of course Texas with Wyoming, Montana, and North Dakota having the largest ownership share.
There’s a whole community that doesn’t consider anything without front and rear lockers, dana 44 axels, frame on body, and 37s with bead lock a real off road rig.
> neogodless: <snip> At least in the U.S. below a certain longitude is quite common.
Lots of wines advertise their latitude of origin
Longitudes are meaningless for wines
So just remember that it's opposite to intuition, which will work until you've gotten comfortable enough that your intuition is correct and will then guide you exactly opposite.
EDIT: ninja’ed https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48065792
edit: as formerlyproven below states, the ones currently for sale also have a hydraulic backup.
Unless you're talking about electric parking brakes in a thread about ABS.
Unpowered wheels become uni-directional skis, regardless of their ability to turn left and right.
Of course, when it snows, it's diffferent, but local geography means if it's snowing enough to matter and the plows haven't gotten around, it's not worth it to be driving, regardless of drive configuration.
If driving throw unplowed roads with snow and ice is a regular thing for you, sure. But lots of people never drive in those conditions, so AWD adds weight and complexity that's unnecessary. But people like to be prepared for everything.
I used to occasionally drive a V8 with no traction control in Wisconsin winters. It was fine, just took a little care. A modern electric drivetrain is about a million times better.
Unpowered wheels still steer just fine. AWD certainly does better. But I'd rather be cautious and take it slow anyway.
I frequently think about this when weather gets bad! I already have AWB (all wheel braking?). Seems like AWD could make it too easy to get in a situation where my AWB isn’t sufficient to stop
It's the opposite. You're more likely to carry too much speed into a situation in a FWD/RWD vehicle because doing so improves things a lot of the time. Take for example a highway merge. You can't accelerate well, so you carry more speed through the turn to make the merge more safe. Well that works great and improves safety for all until some moron stops at the end of the ramp. With the AWD vehicle you can come into that situation and many, many more with less speed.
Acceleration is the weakest link in the snow. The sketch factor goes way down once you get AWD. This is why no matter how hard the internet screeches about snow tires the median consumer who drives in a fair bit of snow will choose AWD first.
Trouble accelerating in snow is common and a non-issue. Trouble stopping is uncommon but a potential disaster.
A FWD vehicle with snow tires is frequently better in the snow than an AWD without snow tires. Better control, better stopping, better uphill on snowy roads.
Control and stopping of course, but I'd love to see the justification behind "better uphill"
Napkin math says that doubling the contact patch over which the motive force applies still wins because snow tires aren't going to double your friction coefficient. And this is before you consider unloading of the front suspension on a hill (though for most grades it's still probably got more weight than the rear of RWD).
Furthermore, this seems to be corroborated by reality. People in snowy climates tend to go AWD rather than snow tires and snow tire makers typically advertise by comparing stopping/handling rather than acceleration.
All cars are “all wheel stop”
All wheel drive doesn’t matter when you lose traction and need to stop. When you are sliding on ice all cars perform the same, and the quality of your tires is what matters. AWD just gives people false confidence to drive faster than they can stop.
I convinced my wife to stop buying the absolute cheapest tires by telling her it is literally the only part of the car that actually touches the road. Why would you cheap out on that?
All the braking power happens in the rear if you only brake the rear wheels
In my mind, the biggest difference is whether front and rear drive shafts turn at exactly the same rate; if so it's "4WD". If clutch slippage or a differential allows different front and rear axle speeds then it's some form of AWD. But many AWD systems have clutches capable of effectively locking the front and rear driveshafts. E.g. the Suburban had tire-hop turning on pavement in 4WD mode which is about the most torque that drive-train would be expected to encounter.
You carry just a hair too much speed into a curve because you're anticipating not wanting to have to use any gas pedal on the rise just beyond and you wind up in the ditch. Or you go wide into a curb because you took a less optimal gap in traffic at a ~5 roll when taking a left turn because that way makes you less likely to get T-boned than coming to a stop and trying to find an even bigger gap in traffic. Or you slide backwards down some stupid driveway or bump something in a parking lot (ask any delivery, parking lots and driveways are the worst).
Edit: oh, boo, you fixed it.
The coefficient of friction drops fast on snowy ground, with all season dropping as low as 1/3-1/4 of their dry value.
Of course, snow tires plus AWD is even better, but I find snow tires on a FWD vehicle to be plenty to drive up steep hills in snowy weather. (Before learning of the wonders of snow tires, I used to have to take different routes home if it began snowing because I couldn't reliably make it uphill without losing traction.)
Citation? Seems to good to be true. Maybe studded tires on the perfect ice.
>The coefficient of friction drops fast on snowy ground,
NickCageYouDontSay.jpg
It's likely more than double as the test results indicates lateral G not coefficient of friction. Snow tires make a bigger difference than any other factor. Good tires make a bigger difference on track too, more than any one single performance upgrade
From the link:
>Snow Test Results >No one expects the snow tires to come in anywhere but 1st place >on this wintry surface at AET. The point here is to see how big their advantage really is over all-season and summer tires.
>It takes 11.7 seconds for our Civic Si to accelerate to 40 mph on snow tires, and 14.5 seconds to get there on all-season rubber — nearly 3 seconds and 24 percent slower. As for the summer tires, well, they require, ahem, 41.7 seconds as they struggle to 40 mph. That's no typo; it takes a half-minute longer — 257 percent more time — for the summer tires to reach this modest speed.
>What about our traditional 0-60-mph test? Well, snow tires get to 60 mph in 19.1 seconds, while the all-season treads arrive in 22.9 seconds, nearly 4 seconds later. Forget the summer tires, however. The available 3,650 feet of snow — seven-tenths of a mile — isn't enough. We figure 67 seconds and 3,100 feet are needed to get there, and then there's the small matter of needing to stop again.
>And that brings us to our next test: full stops with ABS engaged. Here again the snow tires dominate, stopping from 40 mph in 156 feet, some 28 feet shorter than the all-season tires' 184-foot performance. Meanwhile, our summer tires skate to an ultimate distance of 351 feet, the ABS actuator rattling for all it's worth the whole way.
>Increase the starting speed to 60 mph and these distances more than double. It takes 362 feet for the snow tires to stop and 421 feet for the all-season donuts. The summer tires sit this one out because they can't manage to get themselves to 60 mph in the first place. (We do the math instead and come up with an estimate north of 800 feet.)
>Skid pad results follow the same now-predictable pattern. Our snow tires pull 0.30 lateral g, the all-seasons manage 0.28g and the summer tires produce a pitiful 0.15g despite a heroic effort by our shivering hot shoe.
So there's two things going on: first, snow tires are a softer rubber that functions better at lower temperatures. There is a zone of "warm" snowy weather where all seasons are just fine, but then you get below 20F or 15F or so, and the all season start to harden, and their performance drops off a cliff.
Second, snow tires are made to get packed with snow at low speeds, because the friction of snow on snow is higher than snow on rubber.
So damn cold weather or enough snow for the packing to kick in, and two snow tires will start beating four all season.