I made my phone slow on purpose(vinewallapp.com) |
I made my phone slow on purpose(vinewallapp.com) |
tl;dr Don’t keep your charger handy. Don’t have a good charger. Lose your phone (at home). Don’t have a phone case. Have a phone case.
…
When they do not, and I just get 10 random tiktok style slop videos from accounts I do not follow, I close the app and try again in a few months.
I am so glad they put in this feature that stops me scrolling further.
I vaguely remember funneling a shitload of salt and lime juice into a bottle of whiskey to encourage a visceral repulsive reaction and help break the habit.
I vaguely remember drinking some whiskey that definitely had something wrong with it that I couldn't quite put my finger on.
If you really have a problem, novel solutions like throttling aren't gonna cut it.
Edit: now i’m addicted to margaritas.
it would be a good conspiracy if all these apps were made by facebook/twitter/etc because they know that's the case.
That doesn't seem ironic to me, it seems economically foolish. Why not simply buy an older phone?
Okay, reading further down. Really this is just an advertisement for an app they made targeted to people without self control who watch videos on their phone too often.
This probably uses a vpn? It’s important to think about how to stop me disabling it casually. I use Opal which blocks my settings page too. Which works great but frustratingly it blocks my legitimate needs very often too!
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.zenbytelab...
* periodic feed tidying to unfollow as much content as possible. It will be obvious which content is low quality. Right click and “not interested” on apps that support that.
* fill the time with edifying activities: creative pursuits, social activities, helping out, gaming , fitness, bible study .
* turn the phone off (up , down + power button – it’s deliberately onerous) . Stash it in the glovebox or backpack. Even half an hour is a relief. moving my car key to the watch allowed me to leave the phone behind when doing fitness. Try to identify the specific “hook” to your phone.
* turn off push notifs & background app refresh. try moving your important contacts over to a single messaging app if you can so you can minimize the ones with notifications . Otherwise use pull over push if possible (i get that work often isn’t practical) . iOS focus modes let you automate this.
* replace doomscrolling with AI dialogs on any topic. You can go much deeper this way by asking “why” questions like a toddler. Let’s say you’re watching motorcycle crash videos, do a dialog on the history of motorcycle racing. Or any topic
Best way to prevent doomscrolling.
Here’s something else you can try: take off your phone case. My phone screen is scratched to hell and I think it runs slower from dropping it without a case so many times.
Someone should run a randomized trial with screen time against phone case usage. I wonder what would show up. Imagine the human connection and true critical thinking that would happen with just a 1% decrease in screen time!
This isn't a personal problem. It is a social one, and there lies the solution. These apps are engineered for addiction, to Dubai our attention and lives. The companies behind them should br punished and their employees ashamed.
Society must curb socially and environmental nocive organizations.
Cold turkey is for desktop not phones, not sure why that's relevant.
>[Reddit page.]
>Luke (thinking): I shouldn't be looking at Reddit. Why can't I stop?
>After years of trying various methods, I broke this habit by pitting my impatience against my laziness. I decoupled the action and the neurological reward by setting up a simple 30-second delay I had to wait through, in which I couldn't do anything else, before any new page or chat client would load (and only allowed one to run at once). The urge to check all those sites magically vanished--and my 'productive' computer use was unaffected.
https://blog.xkcd.com/2011/02/18/distraction-affliction-corr...
App Store link: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/one-sec-screen-time-focus/id15...
Another tool that I've found to be incredibly helpful for breaking app-addition is the colorblind accessibility tool. You can use it to make the entire phone greyscale, which entirely defeats a huge range of techniques that apps and feeds use to draw your attention. Tiktok in greyscale I would estimate is 1/10th as likely to pull me into a 5+ minute video binge vs the full color version. And 1/100th as likely to pull me into a 90+ minute video binge (which unfortunately does happen to me in full color).
As a counter-anecdata: I've had my phone in greyscale for a few years now. At first it worked amazingly, made me hate my phone and pickups dropped significantly. But over time I realized "Oh wait, 90% of my phone use is text and this is actually super nice for reading".
Now I use my phone just as much as before, except in greyscale.
He uses a "Elephant and Rider" psychological metaphor to describe the internal battle between our rational mind (the rider) and our emotional, intuitive drives (the elephant).
We think the rider is in control. But he isn’t!
Don't be so hard on yourself. You are human.
App Store Link: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/screenzen-screen-time-control/...
For desktop, I recently built a free browser extension called MooBlock - it's similar to ScreenZen in that it adds a forced pause before you reach a distracting site. Bu once you reach the site, a herd of cows start walking all over your screen to make the website less appealing.
It's available in both the Chrome and Firefox extension stores. Hoping to make an Android version later this year too.
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/mooblock/eanbagjehd...
https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/run-for-fun-screen-time-focus/...
A friend showed this to me yesterday and I was impressed that Shortcuts are able to intervene like this. The whole premise of a third party app introducing these 'launch pauses' seemed very unlikely on iOS.
Based on this I'm now using Shortcuts to mute the phone before opening any offending auto-play-videos-with-sound apps (such as Instagram).
Also effective (in my experience) is to use the Accessibility settings to turn down the screen saturation 90%.
A black-and-white phone is far less tempting to use, and quickly becomes tiresome.
I was lucky to never get addicted but, not making excuses, the moment I open the app, I click the logo at the top and pick "Following" and then I see only my friends. Of course it's not sticky (roll-eyes) but at least there's a way to mostly avoid the algo
Overall I definitely feel mentally healthier without that app though.
Quite literally "cold-turkey'ed" from 4.5-ish hours/day to 2 hours a day in a single day, consistent over the last few weeks.
I set up my second phone with a custom homescreen, and installing the 'bad' apps on there (Instagram, Youtube, NYTimes in particular). I dont use it for other apps.
Now if I want to scroll, which I still do sometimes, I have to walk to a specific chair next to which my 'addiction phone' is, I'll scroll for 10-15 minutes, and get back to the real world. I used to have particular issues with scrolling during vibe-coding sessions, and I'm genuinely surprised how well this approach worked for me.
The sense of slowness creates the conditions for pausing and being mindful of what you're doing.
In spirit, this reminds me of the return to slow/analog: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48084980
Consider it the no- or low-alcohol alternative to full speed. https://www.paulgraham.com/addiction.html
On my phones it's even easier: no apps save for absolutely necessary. If I need an app while traveling or whatever, I install it only for the necessary duration then uninstall it when done.
This gives enough friction to the point, when I muscle-memory type the URL in a browser, and get an unreachable error... after a while I learn to just... break the habit.
I use it to straight up disallow a bunch of apps and websites (tiktok, Reddit, YouTube, etc.)
For a while I even uninstalled safari which you can just do with this. Not having a browser at all on your phone is a neat experiment and really changed how I interact with tech on the go.
I did eventually install safari back, but overall I prefer the Apple Configurator setup a lot over any of these kinds of apps.
People doomscroll primarily to avoid certain thoughts/feelings/situations.
The way out of it is to:
1. Note that you're avoiding something.
2. Identify what it is.
3. Face it.
This is an addiction and reaching for the phone is just what gives relief to whatever pain one might be experiencing. Just removing that is laying ground for a substitute.
I was reminded of when Apple started slowing down the CPUs on older phones. Would be nice if you could just configure that on first run. "How addictive would you like your phone to be, sir?"
My (teenaged) kids frequently let their phones go into low battery and then run in power saving mode for hours, when one of them hands me their phones it's super jarring and feels awful to use coming from my 120hz phone haha.
I see this with my own parents during overseas troubleshooting calls. It is an unpleasant, overwhelming experience for both sides. I used to get frustrated whenever my dad asked whether he should press "Next" on a screen, even though it was the only button available in the setup flow. For him, that pause wasn't a lack of technology background. It was complete paralysis. He was nervous that one wrong click would break everything. Different mental models don't help, and our industry keeps making it worse.
The rate of technology is just too fast. AI is making things even faster and not necessarily easier, there will just be more apps to try, more buttons to click, and more content to swipe. More is not always good for my parents' age.
But I wouldn’t make the phone slow for them either. The one good thing about technology now is that systems can finally understand context better than 10 years ago when I was debating teams on interfaces for video calls. We have better tools now to meet users where they actually are.
The meaning of design is different than the meaning of technology. It is less about how we can show users this, and more about why we need to show users this. I am taking a technology break myself right now (getting away from reels and tweets) and just reading Hacker News. This is where my head is at. I want to stop designing for the endless cycle of engagement, and start designing for: “presence”.
To be fair, your fathers caution is not unwarranted.
As a toy example, a few years back Amazon updated their checkout flow so that clicking 'next' defaulted to the paid shipping; you really have to pay attention to find the free shipping option.
clicking next in a world of dark patterns is a bad idea.
After years of fiddling with OneSec and others this really has been the only solution that has worked for kicking my screen addition.
Best thing - with AI I can quickly build APKs for whatever I actually need! I build an app to give me turn by turn directions and (ironically) an app to talk to Claude w/ web search. I feel like I'm living in a world of truly personalized software.
I find the interface itself (number pad with t9, tiny screen) to be the most important part of dissuading compulsive use. Would highly recommend!
I got it for about $40 a year ago, but it looks a bit more expensive now ($90 on Amazon). It was a bit of a pain to root it, but I was able to follow some online guides - I've been meaning to publish a repo with exact steps. Let me know if you order! There are a couple similar phones that work well, the important thing is getting AOSP and not other firmware.
maybe instead of slowing down your phone for no reason you could run a bunch of "useful programs" on it that slow down your phone (idk what these would be... compilation? rendering? Maybe a comment response to this has an idea)
I also think instead of slowing down the phone, maybe developing some habit of not using the phone might be more effective than trying to slow down the phone (like exercising outside without it if you can for example)
I didn't make it slow and buggy on purpose though. Apple did that for me with Liquid glass. Which I guess works!
The solution is Mobile device management (MDM) using Apple Configurator. All you need is a Mac and your iPhone and you can make it impossible to install distracting apps, create un-bypassable limits, and disable Safari. It's all very customizable and is the only solution that worked for me.
One sec is the second best to this in my opinion, but would be greatly improved if you could make it un-bypassable.
Something really rubs me the wrong way about apps that are supposed to make you healthier like One sec or meditation apps that are filled with trackers or ads.
That's another win for one sec as they only collect a bit of telemetry, no insane tracking.
There's also a way to do this on Android if someone is curious I can link my explanation of it.
I bet you could use an MDM method on a regular Android, but I'm waiting for one that supports GrapheneOS. It's still a WIP https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/13587-mdm-on-grapheneos/38
I can still view the occasional instagram post or tiktok vid I get sent via instant msg but since it has to be opened on desktop mode in a browser I don't risk spending more than a few seconds on it.
Hard blocks (gotta re enable noprocrast here asap) and behavioral nudges like keeping an ebook with page open positioned inconveniently close and my phone out of reach work better for me.
I guess this is done on the device as a VPN via Apple's NetworkExtension config. But instead of a normal VPN where traffic goes through a server, the app just locally applies rules based on the app the packet came from and then routes them normally to their destination.
A perfect solution that works 100% is not the goal. Small influences that can help you change behavior can still be beneficial. Maybe they doom scroll 5% less because of this tweak? Still a positive change.
That is such a first-world comment it should be coloured red, blue and white. Wow.
Personally I just deleted the accounts and apps but that doesn't work for everyone.
Also my phone is a 7 year old Oppo something that had a low end Mediatek CPU that sucked from day one. I fear how it would handle any doomscrolling app, it would probably physically eject the media decoder out of the phone after a minute.
I would not last 5 minutes.
I'm occasionally offline outside planes and the amount of times I pull out my phone to "google something really quick" is high.
You can already disallow apps without an MDM, but I'm curious what else you can do with it. I generally uninstall apps like Instagram so it takes a minute to even download it again, but it gives me a way to download it, post something and delete it once a week or so.
Ask your spouse or a friend you trust to set screen time passcode. You can’t bypass it and you’re not going cold turkey either or losing an important utility like Safari.
Doom scroll all you want in 2 mins then it’s locked for the day.
I have succeeded and it’s been 3+ months.
That part honestly worked out pretty great. The first few days were excruciatingly boring, but I quickly adjusted and learned to spend more time with my thoughts.
I ended up reinstalling a browser because there were too many establishments that expected me to have a phone with a browser.
With mdm you can really control the phone top to bottom. Whitelist domains, global http proxy, allowed Wi-Fi connections, fully disable cameras, airdrop, the list goes on. Most of it isn’t super interesting to manage doomscrolling habits.
What drew me to it is that you can’t change the setup without connecting to the Mac, a solution I find much more comfortable than having a friend type in a pin, as well as easily restricting domains and apps including system apps.
For example something I still do is disabling all mail clients including the system one. I don’t need email on my phone. It’s an inherently asynchronous communication medium and it can definitely wait until I’m home.
I tried that app briefly to organise my pages, and not only was it stiff and awkward to use, it decided to screw everything up and reset positions.
I think more people should set up their iPhone using Apple Configurator, a Mac app
To me this seems so far down the list of reasons more people don’t use it that I’m wondering whether you really believe that.
There was also Twitter, which had also solved the problem by itself. After the take-over, the quality of content rapidly plummeted so hard, at certain point I just didn't feel like ever visiting the site again.
So I'm almost thankful to these companies for actively pushing people out like that, y'know? I'm just sorry for people still stuck in there, it must be even more miserable presently...
I mean if someone wants to try something in this direction, but without the misery, I'd suggest things like making the screen monochromatic, which will make the content seem less appealing to the brain, but without that being a nuisance.
This model would not suggest the results seen in studies like this:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11846175/
(The intervention was not "face the roots of your problems", it was "stop using your phone so much", and it produced positive impact.)
yes but the point is that the people who doom-scroll cannot be bored, boredom is exactly what they want to avoid.
People who constantly have their phone in their hands often want to avoid boredom because when you're bored your mind wanders and you have to encounter in silence, your own thoughts. Which now a lot of people are uncomfortable with.
Just like people who overeat sure you can brute force yourself to stop doing it, but you're going to have much more success if you understand why you're engaging in an unhealthy habit, what you're trying to suppress, and then what you want to do instead. People struggle to break bad habits, and sustain changes when all they have is a reactive attitude of "I don't want to do it".
It helped that the infinite scroll was never really infinite for me. I run out of content easily and it just makes me stop scrolling for the day. Same in YouTube. Admittedly I don't use Instagram or tiktok so I don't know how bad it'll be.
My goal is to have VineWall to detect user patterns and use this information to help the user cope with the situations in a more healthy way
Ironically that bug has become a feature for me, sometimes after the first failed unlock I just don’t bother opening the app at all anymore, which is a win for me!
That’s a common suggestion, but personally I found it ineffective. Like you GP comment states, it made everything worse while mitigating or solving nothing.
Example from a few seconds ago: I frequently click into HN user's profile pages when I read an interesting comment from them as I scroll past. At home, it loads ~instantly even on 5G. But when it takes 5-7 seconds to load one, you get a lot more thoughtful about navigating your browser.
There's definitely something interesting about intentionally downgrading your own experience in targeted ways.
I'm looking at a number of options, mostly those recommended at /r/dumbphones on Reddit. There are the Lightphone II, Mudita Kompact, and Clicks Comm there.
Elsewhere: Punkt MP02, Kyocera Dura series, Cat B22 / S22, and a few of the Nokia / HMD phones, preferably flips.
Most are AOSP, HMD/Nokia are S30+. KaiOS also turns up (an AOSP variant).
What other firmware don't you recommend?
And what was your primary motivation? Just simplifying your phone, or security /privacy / other on top of that?
My primary motivation is helping my anxiety by strictly limiting my inputs in most life contexts (when I'm with friends, walking around) so that I can be more present. While having a device just in case of emergency or for the convenience of scheduling to meet up, etc.
My primary security is that only about 20 people have the number (people that I'm meeting up with, I'm not very stingy about it), and I don't get any OTP to the phone. I think this is more of a feature, it feels really nice to have a feeling of disconnection and privacy when I go out. I still use my old iphone and it's number via my mac.
I've had a good time with AOSP! From my very limited understanding, KaiOS could be a bit limiting? But honestly I don't know.
Curious if you try these other options! TBH for what I want, I think having a very low price (~$50 is ideal) is a huge feature because I feel like it gives me the permission to experiment without really worrying about it. Worst case I can brick it, order another, and swap the external SIM.
The new twitter algorithm fixed that for me. They made the feed so fundamentally uninteresting and full of slop* that the issue resolved itself.
I now doomscroll slack and discord
* by slop I mean content written for the sake of being content.
Did you base this idea off of prior research? It sounds reasonable but I'm wondering about its practical efficacy given that I've seen people use an objectively broken screen indefinitely with rationalization.
And yes it is based off my research on Internet and porn addiction (I am a psych researcher). So far I've received very positive feedback suggesting that it does work for people.
there's plenty of benefit to be had from reducing harm while searching (or when wrong about the cause).
Step one is figuring out what triggers the habit. Step two is finding a replacement.
Something that worked for me is keeping certain websites to the "big screen" (aka my computer). If I want to browse Reddit I have to get up and go to my PC. I've blocked it on my phone. For me, scrolling on my PC is a little more managable because hey while I'm there and looking at Reddit, I can open up a terminal and update my packages, or check my todos, or put on music...
AppBlock on Android has a feature that allows you to continue using an app after your time limit is up — if you're willing to wait 3 minutes without swiping to another app. And then, by default, it'll kick back in 15 minutes later.
Works really well for me.
You’re not, yet.
Friends send me links on Instagram all the time and it’s always a multi-step process to see it in the browser without being logged in. It’s half-broken and super annoying. If a search query sends me to Instagram, it just breaks 80% of the time and locks me out. If I click on any of the bait designed to lure people into view more content, it will throw up a wall and require downloading the app or logging in. This all serves to fuel the hate I have for these platforms. If they’re going to make it that hard to use, I don’t want to use it, and there must be very powerful and financially motivated reasons why they are pushing me toward a certain engagement model.
I once took screenshots of all the BS I had to go through when he sent me one of those links, so he could see how bad it was and stop spamming me with every other video in his algorithm. At the time it was a 3-4 step process of dismissing modal windows for every link he sent.
You can only accelerate the human behavior,
unless you involve another person in taking your freedom away.
No condescension - and if you’ve been trying for ten years, there’s clearly a misunderstanding.
Yes you can.
Screen time limiters, nicotine patches, putting the cookies out of sight, all of these things empirically work better than willpower alone.
> No condescension - and if you’ve been trying for ten years, there’s clearly a misunderstanding.
Oh please. “Why are you depressed? Just be happy or you must not be ready for a change. No condescension btw.”
I mean, go ahead and tell the user how to fix their problem with software.
They’re the perfect way to prove your point.
Do those people send you any blog links?
or solely vapid social media shite?
Note that. There’s overlap in other parts of life.
Interesting claim, definitely not something valid for me, for better or worse. But I can see why it could be valid in general.
The big AI push has made him more interested in what is happening with all these tech companies and he doesn't like it. I'm trying to use it nudge him off these platforms run by companies he claims to despise.
Then, bluntly, good luck fixing your own problem with the same.
How many decades will you nudge before realizing you’re yelling down a well?
These aren’t new concepts or tricks people are falling for.
You’re theory, that my friend using Instagram translates into an addiction for me, doesn’t hold water. I spent 6 years where the 5 people I spent the most time with all smoked, and I’ve never had a cigarette in my life. Values are stronger than peer pressure, especially as an adult. By the end of those 6 years there was only one smoker left.
I’m not sure why you assume I should trend toward an unhealthy habit, instead of him trending toward a healthier habit, especially as his hate for the tech industry grows. I also don’t really care if he quits himself, I just want him to not send so many reels my way. He is already good about not being on his phone when hanging out in person. It’s not that big of a deal.
Then your reply is minorly off-topic, and unexpected, in the context your sibling commenter established.
> You’re theory, that my friend using Instagram translates into an addiction for me
Didn’t say it would cause anything for you. Just that if you had the same issue, it’ll cause you undue friction trying to fix it.
Also, hold the snark, I’m engaging in good faith, here.
You said tech can’t fix human problems. I gave you examples. You dodged with something cryptic about mental health. al_borland said they’re helping a friend off these platforms and you told them “good luck fixing your own problem.” gf263 said they’ve been trying for ten years, and you said they’re “resistant to positive change, and that’s dangerous to me.” Here’s what you’re actually doing: reframing an ordinary struggle as a pathology someone’s in denial about, which puts you above them and turns their disagreement into “resistance.” It’s unfalsifiable. Any tool that works didn’t fix the real problem; anyone who pushes back isn’t ready yet. You’ve built a position where you can’t be wrong and everyone else needs help.
Do you actually want people to solve their problems, or do you just want to talk down to them and feel bigger? Ask yourself who really has the problem here.
Is being wildly overweight also an insurmountable problem that I should not talk about?
Ordinary struggles are often unnecessary, and fixable - yes.
> Ask yourself who really has the problem here.
I’m gonna say - with 100% certainty: the people complaining they can’t stop bringing social media with them to the bathroom.
If what I’ve said is upsetting, put your phone down and look into the mirror.
(Vouched your comment to reply.)