Thoughts on AI and Jobs(blog.keyvan.net) |
Thoughts on AI and Jobs(blog.keyvan.net) |
Suspicious.
The more immediately unique thing about AI as far as employment is that through all previous innovations, the substrate of adaptation in our economy has still been the human brain. That problem-solving capacity gets encoded into different industries, processes, and products, but fundamentally the thing that keeps humans relevant is that their brains are the things doing the problem-solving, and they get to capture varying amounts of value for playing that role.
AI, at the limit, probably eliminates this role. AFAICT there's no reason that AI cannot itself become the "substrate of adaptation," and completely remove humans from the adaptation-machine that is a modern economy, at which point they (humans) will have no valid claim to that value creation.
Historically we've said "our standard of living goes up if we keep working!" and kept working. If you're happy to live to a 1700s standard life today you can probably get away only doing a little work every year. In practice people value free time less than improving their material circumstances.
> Yet somehow the prices keep rising.
There is an official government policy in all the English speaking countries I know about that every year prices should rise exponentially. I'd tag that as the most likely reason prices keep rising. It is surprising people don't point at it more often when prices rise.
Land rents are a very aggressive tax on all activity.
> There is an official government policy in all the English speaking countries I know about that every year prices should rise exponentially. I'd tag that as the most likely reason prices keep rising. It is surprising people don't point at it more often when prices rise.
Sure but this is an economic necessity to prevent an extremely perverse incentive (to not spend money as its value is expected to grow). The rise in land rents, or more specifically its capture by private individuals, is not an economic necessity and is itself a perverse incentive (to not utilize land as its value is expected to grow).
Monetary inflation adds more money to circulation which creates more production and eventually is economically neutral. The "increased prices" do not get captured by anyone. This is not how land rents work. The increased prices of land do not increase production whatsoever – the land already exists – and the increased prices are captured exclusively by landowners even though they get infused into and distributed across every price in the economy.
Fewer jobs, less money --> people less willing to pay for anything more than bare minimum --> downward pressure where being cheap is the biggest selling point.
It's "more productivity, more money → higher land rents → upward pressure on everything → higher floor of economic productivity required for someone to earn a plot of land to live or work upon"
I wish we had a modern version of him with more popularity than Andrew yang
I can agree with the author's point, but they seem oblivious to the fact that people lamenting the loss of their job is usually the politically correct way for them to lament the loss of their paycheck.
And that's the issue with UBI: no one in their right minds can believe that UBI won't be (or quickly become) the bare minimum needed for people not to riot. And those of us that are pessimistic or have read history books know that, at some point, there is also the risk that people on UBI may get deported/castrated/sent to work camps/killed (or, in modern parlance, transformed into biodiesel). That's not necessarily the agenda of people arguing for UBI, but that's an inevitable risk that comes with it.
Sounds like someone who is gainfully employed. Try the alternative for a while and let us know how it goes.
Reality has a persistent ability to clarify your thinking.
Not sure it will feed my kids, put a roof over my head and look after me as I age and my body fails me though.
As mentioned below, it’s easy to feel safe and secure when one has the means, independent of their livelihood.
Let's imagine that half of the jobs or more are lost. It would create a shock for the economy as a whole, incomparable with anything that happened before.
It's a snake eating its own tail paradox. It means massive bankruptcies across all sectors and some governments defaulting on their debts. We can forget about UBI in these circumstances. Yes, OpenAI and Anthropic will pay more taxes but the economy as a whole will be uprooted.
Yes, LLMs are useful when used ethically. But when it's controlled by greedy and corrupt people, it's going to be used as a weapon to further widen the class divide between the wealthy and poor. The main reason why it has received so much investment is because greedy CEOs dream of AI as being the ultimate people replacer. All of them are short-sighted individuals only concerned with quick wins on the stock market and do not give any thought to what that would do to regular folks. If no one has a job due to AI who will buy their products and services?
The parasitic nature of LLMs takes the work of people and regurgitates an output without compensating the original creators. Without an incentive (i.e., paycheck) for people to work (e.g., code, write articles, answer forum questions, etc.), how will LLM technology continue to thrive in the future? LLMs cannot solve novel problems. That is a unique human ability that AI cannot replace now.
Yes, LLM tech should be celebrated. But when wielded and overhyped by greedy people there are good reasons to be skeptical 'AI Denialists.'
Many people do all those things in their spare time, unpaid, because they genuinely enjoy it. Let's not conflate work with a job. https://seths.blog/2026/05/doing-your-job-vs-doing-your-work...
I'd say this is the ultimate sticking point. No more buying/selling since nobody has money, no more money flowing in the economy, etc which kills it. Move to an economic model that actually fits humans not needing a job to survive.
"Oh, work is undemocratic, how odd we devote so much time to it!" - do you realise what work is? That it is at the foundation of human civilisation? Most things you see around you every day are the result of someone's work.
And of course you don't present even the slightest idea how else the world might work.
The world can work pretty much as it did before civilization: people went out to get what they needed, little to no fuss. Except instead of climbing a few fruit trees or hunting a mammoth, now one can go to a resource distribution machine (generic term I've coined for a "vending" machine), insert a resource card (not debit/credit card) because resource usage still needs to be tracked to ensure efficient distribution, and carry on with life. Machines do all the provisioning, etc in the background just as nature provisions fruit on trees and edible animals.
I struggle to take what is ultimately an unintentional display of the author's privilege seriously. There is no political will to reverse course on 70-odd years of redbaiting that would be a required first step toward any of the changes to resource distribution that would be required to avoid the economy collapsing when jobs start getting scarce. Shoulda coulda woulda oughta, whatever, Big Money threatens capital flight whenever a modest adjustment to simple taxation is suggested. There is no future in which they willingly submit to the kind of redistribution that would be required to finance a society where work is optional.
Do they ever willingly submit to anything that results in less money for them? Too early to know if AI will actually reduce the need for jobs, but if it does, are they going to be forced to create positions for roles they don't need, so that there are no job losses? And what will people do in those roles?
I find using minimal-capability local models or cheap commercial models like deepseek v4 flash to be the most satisfying because I am a major partner in solving problems or simply trying to better understand the world. I do like access to very strong models a few times a week.
A friend’s son and a young tech friend in town have very different views than I do because they are struggling in a tough job market and want a competitive advantage. I am grateful that I am not in that position.
But it’s sad that the base developer skill set is so devalued that learning something that would take people a few weeks to train you on is what gets your foot in the door.
Its hard for highly intelligent people to understand that others simply DGAF. They just want their paycheck and they don't want to think about it deeply.
Thought leaders have existed since the dawn of human history. There were always scuffles at the top, but there were plenty of people that just went about their business, filling their roles and doing their jobs for the tribe.
One of the most popular alternatives proposed is Universal Basic Income, where you just get a sum of money periodically. That's more straight forward for survival than holding down a job, and worrying about layoffs.
no, we need to get rid of as many jobs as possible. whats missing is talk of a universal basic income. AI is going to get rid of a lot of jobs but people still need to eat and have a place to live. its really created a need for us to explore a system beyond the lessai fair capitalism the US has been creating over the years. tax AI and use it for building subsidized housing and food. made education free so that we can learn skills AI can't do.
I think I know how patricians felt as the Roman Empire was falling and all the systems of long distance trade collapsed. You can see it happening but you can’t change anything.
The mistake people make is thinking AI is going to lay waste to almost all employment.
It may change many jobs and eliminate some but see above. If you live in a (functioning) democracy the notion is politically improbable. That's not to say there are not people who will vote against their own interests, again and again, even after being screwed each time. The point is that being politically aware, savvy and organized is an important part of surviving. This was always the case, but recent events make this starkly obvious.
On top of that AI projections are currently a form of mass hysteria or greedy fantasy, depending on if you see yourself as labor or capital. Both utterly unhinged from reality.
I am by no means an AI doomer, and I use frontier models to a great extent every day as part of my job…
But those at the top of the corporate food chain, those who own and profit from the AI companies themselves, will reap the rewards of this technology.
Maybe there won’t be a dramatic elimination of jobs. But even if there isn’t, the overwhelming majority of the “value” will be going to the 1% and the working class will benefit not.
Heads they win, tails we lose.
AI will not meaningfully improve the standard of living or the quality of life of the everyman. But it will funnel even more of his share of the profit from his work to his corporate paymasters.
Previously we had strikes, powerful unions and even revolutions. There will be none of that this time round.
Anyone with even a hint of interest in labour movements in western countries probably knows that there is no such thing as a democracy working well enough to protect workers when push comes to shove.
Why are they important and necessary, and for whom?
Transitioning from software developer to ai-wrangling software creator is a lateral move that’s a lot easier than starting a new career, and if we have a bunch of developers out of work with mortgages to pay and kids to feed, guess what their first attempt will be? And guess what salaries are like in roles with a giant labor surplus? Companies don’t pay people what they’re worth — they pay people what they’ll work for. If you’re looking at a foreclosure notice and no other prospects, or health insurance that costs $1500/mo and your kid has a chronic health condition, you will do a tougher job than your last one for less money than your interns made, and after staring the losing-everything abyss face-to-face, you will feel lucky to have it.
Absolutely! It's fascinating that when I discuss the job issue, and how undemocratic and soul-crushing it is for many people, there's this huge chasm between what most workers experience in their jobs, and that small, vocal group of highly paid, in-demand workers, who enjoy a lot of freedom and who've never experienced the other side.
> From the very inception of these LLM coding tools, some people predicted this would destroy the dev job market, and others said ‘maybe it will replace other software developers but there’s no way it could replace me,’ seemingly assuming their role would remain largely unchanged, regardless of how the field changed.
It's fascinating to watch, and it prickles people's egos. If the thing I spent a lot of time learning to do well, and which gave me status and a high salary, can be done easily by a machine, does that mean I'm not special? I saw this tweet from a very experienced developer, Dax Raad, that captures a part of it well I think[1]:
> i used to say programming was creative work
> except LLMs are fine at programming and are literal 0s for more obviously creative work
> i think we mistook enumerating a lot of possibilities and picking one for being creative
Regarding UBI, I've also read a lot of different opinions on it, and all the ways it can be implemented to do more harm than good. My own view is that the only reason we even see it proposed from the very wealthy is that they're looking ahead at the direction all this is heading and see it as inevitable (to stave off riots and mass protests that could affect their wealth more than UBI would), so they want their version of UBI to be the one that wins out. That doesn't make UBI as a concept a bad idea, it just means it's going to be a struggle to get a version of it that actually lets us live a decent life. But to even get to that point in the discussion, we have to win more people over to the idea that not having a job isn't such a bad thing, and doesn't say anything about your worth as a human being.
George actually specifically "disproves" UBI as an actual solution (in lieu of LVT).
Yang has said he "likes" LVT, but has advocated for a million other taxes and solutions which, without LVT, won't work, and with LVT are probably just unnecessary drag on an economy.
It's way, way too generous to say his whole platform is modernized Georgism.
George is fundamentally a capitalist while Yang is fundamentally a socialist. The fact Yang is down to tax land does not really make him a believer in the overall mechanism and argument behind it, and his policy proposals prove that he is not.
> The rise in land rents, or more specifically its capture by private individuals, is not an economic necessity
Make your mind up, are prices going up something you want to happen or not? You can't expect land prices to drop relative to everything else for no reason if nothing else is changing in real terms. Obviously if prices going up generally is an economic necessity then prices of every particular thing are going to go up on average. You complained that people need to work to cover the cost of living, then simultaneously believe that people not having to work to cover the cost of living is a perverse incentive.
I'll give you a hint - prices going up isn't an economic necessity and the thing you're calling a "perverse incentive" is actually the same thing that you wanted to happen a few posts up. It is a lot easier for people to work less if they save some money. If people make a habit of spending literally all their money then they tend to discover that they need to work full time. If you have people earning and not spending all their money then taking a year off work starts looking quite attractive.
Here, let me flesh out the original claim so you can see the difference:
> Like every single productivity improvement before it, the bulk of the gains of AI will be piled into land rents, which then gets diffused into the cost of everything that happens upon land (which is everything) and does not intrinsically result in higher wages to match higher nominal costs like monetary inflation does. Then we'll just remark "wow, we still need to keep working because the cost of living has really gone up!"
It's not a different claim at all. Didn't think I needed to account for the guy who doesn't know that monetary inflation isn't captured by anyone and is economically neutral in the long run lol.
> people not having to work to cover the cost of living is a perverse incentive.
You are simply mistaken if you think this is what happens when you have deflation.
And to be clear, I actually don't even have a problem with rising land prices. Prices are important tools for allocating resources. I have a problem with rising rents being captured by landowners for doing nothing. This should draw an even clearer distinction between rising land rents and monetary inflation which –– again –– does not get captured by anyone. It instead equilibrates with higher wages, increasing nominal costs but not affecting real wages. This is truly elementary stuff.
Nominal prices don't mean anything. I'm interested in the relationship between a person's productivity and their material conditions. Today's technology, sans the unjustified capture of land rents, is able to convert a person's labor into dramatically better material conditions than they actually get today. Land rents are the only expense in an economy where higher nominal prices do not feed back into an equilibrating increase in nominal wages. Those higher nominal prices do not do anything in the economy. They do not spur more production. They do not generate more demand. Land rents truly siphon productivity out of the economy in a way no other price increases do.
"Deflation is good" is the rightwing analog of "just tax unrealized gains" haha. Total inability to think one step further.
> Then we'll just remark "wow, we still need to keep working because the cost of living has really gone up!" and somehow not realize that the only thing in our economy where its inputs have not increased in price -- ever -- is the land beneath our feet. There are no input costs! Yet somehow the prices keep rising.
> Suspicious.
What you're actually doing is just adding generic filler that doesn't say anything? Because it seems like a lot of paragraph was ignoring the idea that monetary inflation isn't captured by anyone and is economically neutral in the long run lol.
EDIT And I'm not even convinced you've checked that rents are up compared to monetary inflation if you're using adjusted prices. Assuming we're talking about the US, if I pick out a reasonable-looking series for rent [0] and compare it to the M2 [1] from 1970 the two are close enough to keeping pace. Land rents are actually going up slower. What data are you working with here?
> Like every single productivity improvement before it...
On an aside, this is obviously wrong. It is clear we've all captured some of the benefits of past productivity improvements, life is pretty luxurious today compared to what our ancestors lived with. That couldn't be done without capturing some of the productivity gains.
I get the sense you don’t even know what you’re arguing.
Me: the bulk of the gains are captured by land rents
You: some of the gains are not!
Me: yes… that is why I said “the bulk of” and not “all of”
Lmao