Jolla Phone (October 2026)(commerce.jolla.com) |
Jolla Phone (October 2026)(commerce.jolla.com) |
Congrats on selling them but "assembled in EU" can't be the main selling point.
- https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/sailfish-os-clarifying-claims...
Edit: I'm well aware of the differences between typical Linux and Android (especially the security architecture!), and I'm willing to make some sacrifices in the name of FOSS... but only if it's actually FOSS.
Then again, SailfishOS is a linux with much of the usual linux stuff like userland with bash, coreutils, glibc, systemd, wayland, pulseaudio etc.
Android (and by extension GrapheneOS) uses Linux as a kernel, but it lives in its own world and is completely unrecognizable. I'd say it's even more alien than macOS. For most users, the differences don't matter. If you're a programmer or a sysadmin with reasonable expectations, you feel like a fish out of water very fast. And I cannot honestly the changes are for the better.
But I hate phones. All I want is navigation, sms/call, signal, steam and firefox.
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/open-sourcing-proceeding/2468...
https://github.com/sailfishos/sailfish-weather/
https://github.com/sailfishos/jolla-camera
It's still more open than AOSP
I don't think this is true at all? AOSP is completely open source modulo driver blobs (which Sailfish has too) and Google services.
One can make a fully functional system, modulo drivers, out of only open-source components using AOSP. It's not possible to do this using Sailfish; the compositor, UI libraries (Silica), and most of the "core" apps are still closed source.
The thing that sounds really fishy is the "User configurable physical Privacy Switch". If you can configure it in software (how else?), then it's software-defined. If it's software-defined, then it's not physical.
I'm not advocating any of those specifically but I do recommend you take whatever step you are comfortable with to a saner mobile technology lifestyle.
IMHO it's a worthwhile learning journey that is probably less challenging and more empowering than you can imagine.
https://github.com/Universal-Debloater-Alliance/universal-an...
E.g. on most Samsung phones you can uninstall (from the user partition): third-party Meta/Microsoft/etc. apps, the McAfee app scanner that not enabled by default, Gemini, Bixbee, most Google apps, most Samsung apps, some analytics services. You can make a pretty vanilla phone with just OneUI.
That said, best is to grab a Pixel, the only phone with an unlockable bootloader that also has modern device security (separate security processor, MTE, etc.). Installing GrapheneOS gives you a very pristine and quiet OS, while still providing great compatibility through sandboxed Google Play Services.
Also the only OS that provides Android 17 now, besides Pixel OS (and obviously betas like the OneUI 9 beta).
Jolla phones are fine. I have friends who use it every day. Happy to support them all the best I can.
—— Sent from my iPhone 17 Pro
What about the regulatory side where all of Europe is starting to require stock Android or iOS to even have an ID card?
Right now I'm more excited about PostmarketOS which seems to be more vanilla Linux with more approachable UI…
I never really did a lot of banking on my phone before, but it really wasn't that hard to let that go. I'd say the biggest hangup is not having Venmo or something for splitting bills with friends, yard-sales, etc, but I've started carrying some amount of cash again for those instances and it's worked out alright.
Been daily driving a dumbphone since 2023. Yes it takes a bit of work, but it's so SO worth it.
I don't think you NEED to open your online banking on your phone every day. Just use cash and cards.
2FA should be easily available on any OS
That's an overgeneralization. In many countries online payments require approval through a smartphone. There are also banks that barely have a mobile banking website (e.g. Bunq last time I had it).
I think the challenges here exist but the reality is overblown to be honest, the vast majority of banking apps (everything that isn't struck through in that list) work just fine.
Fully agree the concern is discouraging adoption though. I would love to see more of a solution here, it seems like purely anti-competitive behaviour by Android that will block competitors emerging.
I thought it was very cool. It felt a lot more like a "computer that I could use as a smartphone" than a "smartphone with some computer stuff". I thought the interface was clean and nice and it was fun to hack on.
I really should buy a compatible phone and play with it again...I'm sure they've done a lot of work on it.
Basically a screen, battery and LTE chip with microSD storage for times
The way most people use phones are functionally useless without internet, so thats already a critical requirement and having the “phone” part of it you can do with 5c of hardware and free software.
Pick and place PCB assembly is very different from the final assembly of batteries in terms of who is capturing value and building a reasonable moat. Their sales angle is around European autonomy.
Low wage workers putting batteries in phones is not that, but PCB assembly is much closer to that.
In the era of hallucinated apps, this doesn't even seen like an imaginary wishful scenario.
...
https://github.com/sailfishos/sailjail-permissions/blob/mast...
Given how sensitive information most people have on their phones (banking, chats, and whatnot), it's a disaster in the making.
The typical answer is "but I'll only use open source apps that I trust". Sandboxing doesn't only protect you against rogue apps, it primarily protects you against 0-days in apps that you do trust.
https://commodore.net/callback/
It's pretty cool looking! Very optimistic about it.
Of course, if your goal is to run SailfishOS, there is currently not much of another option.
I've not heard of a bank in the last while that doesn't have the restrictions, at least in Ireland and Italy.
Or am I just spoiled by apparent local regional abundance of cheap roboticists?
OTOH, I'm not sure how much it matters. Apple products are "designed in California" (which is a bit of a lie to begin with), and very much assembled overseas.
Of more interest is how few units they've pre-sold compared to mainstream phones. I wish them well, but I doubt they'll change history.
I've seen "Packaged in $country" on boxes before, so I suspect they are two different things.
Like food made in Canada that shows up in American chain stores being labeled "Distributed by QFC." There's lots of rules about this sort of thing.
Reminds me of back in the late 90's when Wal-Mart was all rah-rah about "Made in the USA!" on all of its products. Then my company bought every employee a Sam's Club membership and the cards were all marked "Litho en Mexico."
woah indeed.
I would really appreciate it if you could give some references - any at all - to back this claim.
All I have seen is GrapheneOS folks (or probably just a certain individual affiliated with the GrapheneOS org) accusing them of doing this.
I know the people behind SailfishOS, they’re not like, friends or anything: just ex-Nokia developers who got fucked by Microsoft (like I did, btw, which is how I know of them).
I feel like the big tech smartphone duopoly would have a reason to spread such rubbish, but its so patently obvious that I doubt they are so stupid.
"It acquired new investors in 2016, among them the Russian company Votron. In March 2018 they were joined by Rostelecom (which is state owned) as investor, which took over Votron and OMP."
Note that was after 2014 russian invasion into Ukraine.
(I actually couldn't find information on their nationality, they might be e.g. Ukrainian or second-generation Russian immigrants; Micay is somewhat Russian-sounding too, btw, although I think he's known to have been born in Canada).
https://forum.sailfishos.org/t/plea-for-official-statement-f...
Currently Russia is sanctioned so it’s illegal to do business there. If it were legal they would be straight back.
Russians hate the West and the incumbents know it. If Western companies started to muscle in again they would drop the price to protect their market shares.
Kind of silly to give up your entire market share over an unwinnable war.
The practical downside, however, is that this phone does not natively run Android apps, while GrapheneOS runs all Android apps bar those that require Play Integrity. Desktop GNU/Linux programs are either unusable or a terrible experience on a mobile device with a small screen and no mouse.
Is this an assumption or coming from your experience? Because I'm typing this on a GNU/Linux phone in a desktop browser and use a bunch of desktop applications daily and haven't noticed.
Of course if you run GIMP or something like that it won't fit unless you plug an external screen and a mouse in, but all the applications I use daily are perfectly usable. There's a lot of Kirigami and libadwaita programs these days that just work well on a phone, and if I need to launch my bank's application there's always Waydroid.
If you say, rely on google maps, banking apps, apps for your IoT appliances, etc. it's certainly relevant. I don't have any of that though.
For me the most and truest pressing issue is that cell modems are very, very tightly coupled with Android. It's still true for the Jolla Phone that it simply is a worse phone because the modem drivers are buggy. This is a complicated issue that isn't getting better, and is mostly to do with legislation legally mandating the tivoization of cell modems, a weird line in the sand on what responsibilities fall to the hardware or to what software, as well as the modem manufacturers themselves not really caring.
Everything I listed was an advantage. Now see, I don't think Unix is the be-all end-all of operating systems design. I don't particularly care for Linux, the BSDs, macOS, etc. But Android is a definite regression in the strongest terms. Give me a PIMOS or Genera or Squeak phone that works well. I'll be happier than I would with a Linux phone.
And OSS projet based on the SFOS core exist : https://nemomobile.net/, https://github.com/nemomobile-ux
If we're going to start counting forks, we get to count LineageOS and GrapheneOS for Android, and then the goalposts really move.
The main point is that AOSP as a system (modulo firmware) is open source and SailfishOS is not. Also, even though Sailfish has an Android compatibility layer (though only for official devices), compatibility is most likely always going to be worse than 'real' Android.
That said, I hope that Jolla Phone becomes a success, more competition is good. Hopefully being funded better will move them to fully open source the base system.
A true AOPS image is missing most core Apps.