A native graphical shell for SSH(probablymarcus.com) |
A native graphical shell for SSH(probablymarcus.com) |
If so how would that work on non Apple devices? Also how much will that sandbox protect you?
https://outerframe.org/ and https://outerloop.sh/native-apps/
It's a fun heretical idea, moving away from a "cross-platform" web to a "multi-platform" web. It's a cross-platform protocol that hands off to platform-specific frontend code. I think it's a natural direction for the web, in a world where LLMs can translate to other platforms.
I take it you don't know about "X11Forwarding yes" or "html5 web app"
For browsers, capabilities like connecting to Unix sockets have been dismissed as extremely niche
On various Mozilla forums that I saw, the discussion was basically: 1. We can't just allow the browser to connect to any socket, since many either explicitly don't want browsers connecting to them, or are oblivious to browsers. 2. ...so we need to also add some sort of allow list 3. ...this is getting too complicated for such a niche feature.
So I think the nicheness was the high-order bit here.
(FYI, Outer Loop does add an allow-list: https://outerloop.sh/unix-domain-sockets/)
My terminal's "clickity clackity" features [0] are local to the machine so I lose graphical-ness as soon as we remote in somewhere.
That's starting to change a bit with offline replay [1] where the native GUI and TUI work in tandem to unlock some rewind. But there's quite a road ahead and I love seeing others experiment properly. (Terminals are massively underserved.)
[1] https://terminal.click/posts/2026/06/tui-stability/#:~:text=...
> Apps like Jupyter and Tensorboard are not typically visible to standard web browsers if they’re running on remote servers, because it would be terribly unsafe to let the whole internet touch this app. Instead, they run on a local port on the server, which your computer can’t access directly.
> Classically, to get access to these, you had to open a new terminal and run:
> ssh -L 24601:localhost:8889 mrcslws@lambda4.mycompany.com &
> ssh -L 24602:localhost:6006 mrcslws@lambda4.mycompany.com &
is this true? isn't the normal thing just to do this ssh forwarding for prototyping, then for deployment, you set up a website like myjupyternotebook.com, and then set up auth so that others can't access it. HTTP basic auth is not too much work.
if you want SSH, not HTTP, to be what's publicly exposed, there's other options too, like putting it behind a VPN or tunnel.
all this to say, outer loop is super cool, but I don't get it. I must be missing something about why you built it, so could you help me understand?
I'm closer to the cluster that uses them for deep learning experiments, GPU kernel optimization, robot development (a robot is just a server that moves!)... use cases where you are explicitly using a remote computer.
For this cluster of people, I think this tool feels more intuitive than the flow you suggest. But maybe I'm projecting!
And, to me, this just feels like one of the fundamental things that could exist; it's like a graphical operating system, but remote-first.
Download the binary, make a Caddyfile
myservice.example.com {
basic_auth {
admin some_password_hash_here
}
reverse_proxy :3000
}
The tool from OP and WAC are pretty similar in terms of functionality and usecase. Why would you want this? Well, imagine your team needing to be able to do server functions but you have less technical team members to do it for you, which is very often the case in big places, most people are familiar with the web browser and having a website to do these sorts of actions makes it easier to have things done in one place without a lot of tools like Remote Desktop, SSH, WinRM, etc. configured.
As someone managing various servers, both at home and at work, I see how this can be really useful. I see it not in the production space yet but rather in the experimenting, using a Linux machine as a second compute device!
So regarding your last point, I'm convinced. I think it is useful! The one fact that is bugging me is that now it requires a client specific app, with GUI, on my PC and I wonder if using ssh port forwarding could reduce the surface. I mean I wonder if either having a rich client that executes commands via ssh or a rich server (including Web Server) with ssh port wouldn't suffice, so that I can avoid installing stuff on the server AND on my computer.
Dependencies are less of a concern for the frontend binaries. For backends, I use a dependency-light approach, static-linking anything that's needed. Of course, people are welcome to do backends however they want, and just tell Outer Shell about the systemd/launchd units via the API. I used this no-dependency approach to keep everything lightweight and to keep install steps trivial, but admittedly it pushes me in certain directions (for example, using custom binary formats rather than sqlite).
Cool idea anyway, no shade here.
What I mean is that we can bring some web tech to terminal natively. We don't even need a separated shell. Security and bi-directional communication is built by default because of UNIX socket. But we still need to think how to handle stuff like cookie, local storage, external CSS / JS, ...
This adds unnecessary overhead for communication. using web and web-like approaches on desktop system is a terrible idea.
SSH protocol also isn’t just for CLI work. It supports file transport (eg SFTP), TCP/IP forwarding and even SOCKS HTTP proxying.
You also used to be able to run GUI applications over SSH via X11.
It does. MobaXterm have a bunch of it already, file manager on the side and ability to pass X11
(The one on the website is the standard browser video player, not custom.)
> An operating system shell is a computer program that provides relatively broad and direct access to the system on which it runs. The term shell refers to how it is a relatively thin layer around an operating system.
> Most shells are command-line interface (CLI) programs. Some graphical user interfaces (GUI) also include shells.
The last line I think supports the notion that the term "shell" at least implies a CLI, but I can understand both positions.
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0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_(computing)
Edit: I'm shite at formatting on HN
Just FYI.
> Cairo, like Chicago, had a new shell (Microsoft’s favorite word for the user interface for launching programs and managing files) and a new file system
https://hardcoresoftware.learningbyshipping.com/p/020-innova...
When I worked at Microsoft 2010 - 2014, the word "shell" was still used in this way. I decided to say "graphical shell", to make it clearer.
The original intent was that a shell is a thin wrapper on top of the OS to expose the hosts capabilities. But that hasn’t been an apt description for most of those 40 years.