Programmers need to start meditating(jacob.gold) |
Programmers need to start meditating(jacob.gold) |
Then why get overwhelmed by LLMs and meditate to calm down, when you can just write the code yourself at a healthier pace? Tools are supposed to be designed around humans, it’s not the human that has to adapt to the machine.
In any case, meditating with an end to destress or to reach higher levels of productivity is missing the point of meditation.
This is a common thing to say, but when during the development of human civilization has this actually been the case? Is agriculture designed around humans more than hunting/gathering? Is industrialized work more designed around humans than agrarian society?
I don't mean to sound pessimistic or technocratic; quite the contrary. But I think we shouldn't project our desire for equanimity onto romantized versions of civilization.
The point of being an experienced programmer is thinking in data structures and transformations, not in prose. Why would I introduce all that friction?
…sure you are buddy, sure you are…
Note to self: book appointment with Optometrist ASAP to correct how far my eyes have rolled back into my head.
Hell, you can do both!
What an utter piece of BS. AI goons really like to smell their own crap
"The video trailer for the original course from which this series has been derived/edited can be found here - https://youtu.be/EEOykTO5754
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...
"Mahāsatipaṭṭhānasutta - Bh. Sujato", the main breath mindfulness/meditation sutta
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcMC0iGGyFk&list=PL70fWqztn7...
https://suttacentral.net/dn22/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...
A_History_of_Mindfulness_Bhikkhu_Sujato.pdf;
https://santifm.org/santipada/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/A_H...
"This series of 10 Dhamma Talks by Bhante Sujato, given during the rains retreat in Santi Forest Monastery in NSW, Australia in 2007 is the most detailed description of Ajahn Mahachatchai's Metta Meditation technique I have ever come across on the internet."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HREe6phLMpU&list=PLTcGMzIEhl...
Cūḷavedallasutta/The Shorter Elaboration, a socratic discource between a nun and, iirc, their former partner, who later became a monk/mendicant ("begger")
"10.2 “The noble eightfold path is conditioned.” (grasping for good things is good, until you finish crossing the river with that raft)
https://suttacentral.net/mn44/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=plain...
https://suttacentral.net/snp1.8/en/sujato?lang=en&layout=pla...
https://youtu.be/maBmEU4YUi8 - Metta Sutta/The Discourse on Love, recital/chant in English by Sujato
You should ____
Everyone is full of advice for others lmao
We've had 4 teams on this model and sure it helped in some things (mostly data analysis and scripts) but generating code and doing architecture is utter crap 90℅ of the time. So much so that we've even had juniors noticing some design patterns that, and I quote: "this is one the examples of bad code we were taught in sw design classes'. The worst is how non deterministic they are. The same prompt from different people yields vastly different results
SW engineering is mostly x + y + z Where x=planning, y=writting code and z=reviewing, then rinse and repeat. Llm spedup y but made everything else take so much longer that equation result is much worse. Now reviewing is utter torture and during planning we're dicussing how to mitigate the pitfalls of LLM (like over engineering, too many abstractions) that we spend fewer time on the planning of the engineering itself and more on cuddling this brain addled tool
It looks like absolute hell of constant distraction making it impossible to reach a state of flow.
I've bounced off Claude Code (et al) multiple times.
But very recently I've had some successes. With some bulk bug fixes, it felt the same as scripting data quality fix ups. With proof of concepts in mind, tried 3 very different ideas.
Two quickly flamed out, revealing that I needed to chew on those ideas (a lot) more. If we're measuring how to "fail faster", I'd score these as useful efforts.
But one has been a very unexpected delight to work on. Almost addictive, like coding feels when you're in the flow.
Any way. The current mania for coding harnesses is total insanity. Mario of Pi.dev fame is spot on and far more insightful and articulate than me.
I must admit, if this is the new way of doing software development (eg: not actually programming but working with LLMs) I am not going to stick around for that long. It's not what I fell on love with, it's not what I trained for etc. I may as well do a job I don't enjoy that lets me rest my brain for later.
That might change with time, but for now, all I see AI used for is additional code review and side scripts/tooling that don't need to be safety rated.
Of course, that might mean entirely switching language (C, C++ or increasingly but still in minority Rust), learning entirely different skills (control system theory, real time systems, possibly formal verification but usually not), etc.
No such thing! Companies that aren't already actively using AI for embedded development are looking closely at it and experimenting with procedures to incorporate into their workflow. Why anyone would think that a company would ignore a potential improvement to their bottom line is beyond me.
Yeah, it might take a while, but it will happen faster than you think.
A code change at my role recently, the diff was 6 lines, and that took at least 10 hours of combined writing documentation, figuring out which tests to run and then running them, pre-work for me, to propose the change and describe the behavior of the SW. So AI helps in all these processes, but having the agent write the code vs having me write the code makes no difference at all. I think most safety critical systems are like that.
The move-fast-break-things crowd is going to come after these as well, along with medical and defense software where lives are fully on the line. Sure, there will be failures and needless deaths and bombings of elementary schools, but that's just the price of being on the bandwagon.
The issue with roles close to business is that it doesn’t provide the right soil for good engineering . Your stakeholders have no concept of engineering and wants everything ASAP; Your manager is just a yes man who takes all tickets, and want you to use AI for everything because it’s so easy and quick; Your VP thinks your team is not moving quickly enough; Your VP puts speed before quality literally.
The thing is, I believe that some roles and some industries just don’t care about good engineering. If you want to be a good engineer, you have to stay away from them, even if they are high paying, and get yourself into a system programming role, in a company that fails you if you do not have good engineering practices. The only way to be a good engineer is to put yourself in such an environment that you will almost surely fail if you are not a good one. There is a cool-aid and many engineers drink that the most important thing is "business value", and I politely vomit that all out a while ago. The new rule is to become an engineer that they are still willing to pay you even if you spit on their faces.
Those roles and companies can die and I don’t give a fuck about those business clowns.
When it comes to joy killers because of AI, then it is dismal how plagiarism (going by the definition of "presenting someone else's work without attribution") suddenly became widely accepted. When I see long lists of bullet points with interspersed bold text, I know that it is something the sender did not write or bother reviewing. Absolute cherry on top when in the end of that text you see the typical LLM suggestion that you can ask for more information, which the sender didn't even bother removing.
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7075496/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7614709/
but you can prompt for 8 hours more or less
like running versus cycling - you can cover more distance by cycling and it's less intensive (I'm talking casual running/cycling, not racing)
agents are a bicycle for the mind
Is it because the prompts matter less?
What LLM usage has changed is that there is no longer a deep dive into domain knowledge, the LLM goes off and does that. Then implementation time comes and again it's just handholding the drunk chatbot inside the codebase until it is done. The whole time my mind is barely engaged. Yes my expertise is required to guide it, I am constantly catching issues and problems it generates, but that's still not engaging the problem solving skillset I developed. It's just leveraging my experience.
On the subject: some people find meditation very helpful, others find it a net negative, or useless, or impossible to do. So a categorical "you should do this" isn't correct or particularly helpful. Try it, if it works for you, great; but don't put it about that people who aren't doing it are being negligent in some way.
A most elementary form of meditation, is getting used to placing your attention on a sensation and keeping it anchored there - even when other sensations or thoughts arise.
Following the breath- place your awareness, your attention, on the sensation of air passing through your nostrils. Count one inbreath and outbreath cycle as «1», and count until 10 or 21. Decide before you start, how many repetitions of 10 or 21 you will do.
If at any point your attention has drifted to a different sensation - seeing, hearing etc, or thinking, visual imagery etc, then congratulate yourself for noticing, and restart from «1».
I recommend «The attention revolution» by Alan B. Wallace
abs(cinema)It is rare to see laypeople discuss some of the different types and which one may be best suited for a particular goal.
If the goal is simply relieving stress, performing some sport outdoors —especially team sports— is probably more effective than any meditation, for most people.
Joel Spolsky disagrees here: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2001/02/12/human-task-switche...
Software enegineering is not the kind of field that should require adoption of some universal coping mechanism. The fact that you're suddenly bing told to adapt to something harming you should raise all kind of qustions and red flags.
So no, I will not be "meditating". My meditative states tend to be beard stroking and occasional F bomb.
1. Sit somewhere comfortable. Sitting "cross legged" or with your "back straight" as the guide linked to above advocates is not necessary. A comfortable chair/couch is fine.
2. The room should preferably be quiet. Though if you have the privilege of access to an outdoor courtyard that's quiet other than birdsong and chirp of insects, you'll probably enjoy it more. But a quiet room is good enough.
3. Phase 1: Set a timer on your watch/phone for 5 mins. Close your eyes. And let your mind wander. Doesn't matter what your mind drifts towards.
4. Phase 2: Restart the 5 min timer. Now, try quieten your mind of thoughts and focus instead on just your breathing. Be gentle with yourself. Your mind will wander again and that's fine. Just gently nudge it back to your breathing.
That's pretty much it. Slowly, over months try and increase Phase 2 from 5 to 10 mins.
When I described this to my partner, I used the analogy of treating your mind like a curious eager pup. In the first phase, cutting of external stimulus of sight by closing your eyes is like having the pup with you in a closed room.
In phase 2, you gently hold the puppy near you and get it to quiet down and stay still.
She mentioned that this analogy helped her a lot.
Honestly, this is pretty much the gist of it. I suspect that you will likely get most of the benefits of advanced meditative techniques with just the 2 simple steps from above. YMMV.
Be patient though. Getting to a fully calm state of mind takes months of practice.
I have also done meditation, but I struggle to keep it up for long. I think you should really do it consistently to get majority of effects. Coding, exercising, drawing has always been an easier form of meditation for me.
Chess-players too are in a very "meditative" state when they play, and they enjoy it, I assume because it let's them focus on the game and forget about everything else.
Of course you also might exhaust yourself to some degree, as your own expectation might be that you can develop multiple things in parallel, while also having to review a lot of code where you might not have context, so in a way you have to hold more high level context in your brain state, what might be somewhat stressful. However, when you have been tech lead once, all of that is somewhat familiar.
He told me that wasn’t normal, and I shouldn’t have to meditate just to function at work :’)
Was he a judgmental person in general? Or do you think he had an aversion to meditating?
I do have to say, if you were encouraging him to ALSO start meditating, I'd hate that too.
I did not encourage him to, this was just during a weekly 1:1 where I was sharing with him how I’ve been coping with the amount of workload and chaos happening among the team/myself.
He was wanting to empathize me that it’s not normal to have to do that to be functional at work, acknowledging how rough things were at the time.
I kept doing it, but fell out of practice. Also left and no longer work there, due to stress and poor support. Shocker.
For me, I find the Pomodoro technique really effective, but there's a key caveat, which is that you try to focus on one thing at a time (which flies in the face of using multiple AI agents working on x number of things at the same time).
Another angle to explore is how much of the process of software development that we do manually can we automate, particularly the parts that still require human input (like code reviews). That may also help with reducing the cognitive load.
Get your vibe coded software with zero human reviewers away from the public infrastructure.
- Unit tests - End to End testing with Cucumber and Puppeteer (or Playwright these days) - Code Coverage analysis - Lint and formatting checks - Tools like knit to remove unused code - Security checking tools like Synk and Socket - Size checking
If you look at what those tools do, they automate aspects of reviewing PRs. The question then becomes - what still gets done manually, and are there ways to automate that.
I used to send a prompt as early as possible, meaning that'd really just give the rough idea, barely a sentence, and see what the model would come up with, thinking that I'd save time if it got it right for the first time, and maybe I'd just need to correct what it got wrong (it's faster at typing than me). That means a lot of multitasking at a rather high pace, which takes its toll if you do it for too long.
I've recently switched to writing longer prompts (doing part of the planning myself), hoping to get better results and to have less to review: I'm realizing I'd rather write more and read less, past a certain threshold. I don't really want to iterate with an agent; I want to tell it, maybe in somewhat verbose terms, what I want, I want a quick confirmation that it'll indeed work, and I want the final output (e.g. a commit), that's it.
That's probably what some users have been doing since the beginning, but with all the hype around this tech, maybe I got caught by this idea that with just a few words, I can get stuff done. In my experience, it's indeed just a few words, but for useless units of work (iterations with a model) rather than what I really want (commit) which itself will often require non-trivial amount of input. In this case, I'd rather give it all in one go, in a somewhat focused state.
It's true that the proportion of founders has increased both in the US and in my country, Korea.
And unlike the old days, it feels like what's needed now isn't so much deep, concentrated programming knowledge in one area, but rather broad knowledge across many fields. The claim that "productivity has increased" really only applies to freelancers. In fact, there's been a noticeable increase in freelance outsourcing requests that would be hard to handle without AI, lots of short deadline gigs compared to before. And of course, that makes it harder to charge appropriately.
For teams, on the other hand, you still need things like code reviews and team decision making.
As an individual, I've practically become someone who just writes up a gate, lets AI handle the code, checks that the core domain doesn't break, watches the gate's rules, and pulls the lever.
The reason team work slows down is mainly because Agile methodologies and code review processes are still human centric and consensus driven, and human cognitive speed itself becomes the bottleneck.
So I can understand a lot of the arguments that come up in the comments. The important thing is that most people tend to only see their own situation and their own context, which makes it hard for them to understand others.
I’m sure many people produce more than me, but I retain my sanity as well as a high level of understanding of the code that I produce, which in my domain I feel is still important. I’ve tried ultracode-style subagent workflows and find that they rapidly produce reams of slop that I don’t have the patience or energy to properly review.
I also meditate quite a bit.
I'm generally hyper rationalist, so this was a very interesting experience, and it happened because a random thing one of my friends said about meditation made something "click" in me.
It lasted about a day, I can't say I have any lasting effects from it now. It'd be interesting to see if I can make it happen again, but when I was in that state, I thought that trying to make it happen would defeat the purpose.
And if you can't, THAT should be a big red warning sign for you.
But sure, if the most important thing is to mass produce tons of shitty code, it's your life - just don't give people dumb advice on what they NEED to do. :)
It is also worth saying that you don't need to sit still to meditate. You can do yoga or go for a walk. Walking meditation is very underrated IMHO.
Absolutely. I've tried mediation in many situations and some classes but it's just not for me. My ADHD brain doesn't work that way. It's painfully boring and not relaxing at all. What does work for me is a walk through nature after a stressful day. There's another thing that works even better but too fringey and a bit nsfw to go into detail :) But anyway mediation definitely does not.
You need to find what works for you.
Pushing through that is what leads to progress.
Meditation is like physical exercise, it's not exactly "fun" at the time, you sort of have to learn to enjoy it, but it's never easy. Like exercise the real reward is backloaded
As a fellow ADHD person I didn't get out the first few times I tried, but now find it quite helpful.
It is a common misconception that the purpose of meditation is to relax. My experience is that meditation is very difficult but has worthwhile benefits for those around me after I meditate.
Following that logic, assuming focus is a generalizable and modifiable skill through these means, improved focus on something someone doesn’t want to focus on is the outcome of practicing it.
That’s why I believe it’s one of the best non pharmaceutical interventions someone with adhd can do. It’s directly training a “muscle” that may be atrophied.
What? That's a very uncharitable take.
I wrote this blog post and it was a sincere attempt to genuinely help people. It seems to have been very helpful for some people, based on the responses/messages I've received.
This is assuming you fully trust AI code. AI is still not perfect and sometimes might produce code with insufficient quality even when it works. For example, it can fix a bug in a wrong way, such as removing the symptoms instead of fixing the root cause. And so on. Also, I still have to review and test that generated code, especially in complex systems. Yes, AI reduces coding time, but at the expense of increasing the review / testing time, and review is not something all developers enjoy (both as reviewer and someone who is reviewed). This still doesn't seem to be something that has negligible cost of context switching. Also, AI tends to make you more lazy and care less about understanding the requirements. I'll prefer manual coding with some AI assistance for boring / repetitive tasks and finding potential mistakes for software that I care.
There’s a bunch of different tactics for this. Some people hold office hours. I block off 9am for code review any only do it once per day.
The programs we call agents are nothing like people.
Worth noting that this article is 25 years old. The world was very very different back then, especially when it comes to software engineering.
Context switching is a problem when the cost of switching contexts is non-negligible -- but in the age of agentic development is that still really true? Surely yes for some problems, but for many others I would argue it no longer is.
A personal anecdote for you:
At my company we have a local development CLI our devX team built, it allows for agents to interact with standing up, tearing down and managing local stacks for our software suite. When I receive customer feedback about a broken button, or a poor UX experience, I simply start up a prompt:
/metal user X reported an issue on the trial balance page, they encountered a blank page when using the inception to date filter. We need to investigate the root cause, spin up a new stack, and resolve the bug.
Then off to the next task, maybe some few hours later I'll check back in on the session and I'll see:
> PR created: https://github.com/company/repo/pull/12758295 > QA URL: http://localhost:8400/<url> > Summary of root cause and fix: lorem ipsum lorem ipsum
After a quick QA session I validate the fix, confirm that our claude reviewer has approved the PR and merge the PR to deploy. The mental burden of switching to this task is quite low, orders of magnitude lower than it would be 25 years ago.
Whether this mode of working is going to be long-term viable is going to depend on how important it is for you to be aware of what has happened for the system in question, how viable the economics are for the LLM usage at this level of assurance and how much ownership you exert over the LLM used or another similarly powered one (because otherwise the LLM can be taken away from you, leaving you at the mercy of a third party with goals that do not align with your own).
> user X reported an issue on the trial balance page, they encountered a blank page when using the inception to date filter.
It’s whack-a-mole with bugs.
This really isn’t a debate. OP is wrong.
You have to take a lot of these comments on this site with a grain of salt. These guys are not pushing out stuff they are professionally liable for.
It is not just what you do or don't do in the code (e.g. MISRA or CERT C) but there is also a lot about how you test, review, show that your tests cover everything relevant (not just code coverage, but also specification coverage), show how you check that everyone involved followed the process, etc.
At least if the metaphor is about coding as a means to creating usefully functional code as efficiently as possible. Careful coding by hand may eventually be a hobby activity.
Personally, while I do get some satisfaction in coding by hand it was always the production of something useful that I found most rewarding. I was never someone who wrote code for a hobby. With LLM's I'm more productive. And I find that very satisfying.
Not true if they kept going the wrong direction.
Since the OP was about achieving flow state and focus, I thought this was relevant.
Worked great for me, when other techniques haven't. Just a good fit.
Much gratitude to you and u/phyzix5761. Sadly, I lost touch with that meditation group and I have been looking for something similar. Now I have your pointers.
IMHO, the complexity of kernel and compilers is usually more justified and less accidental. At least non technical people are rarely the cause.
> Whether this mode of working is going to be long-term viable is going to depend on how important it is for you to be aware of what has happened for the system in question
This is the million dollar we'll see answered in our lifetime. Software engineering exists to automate work, are we arrogant to think we are not destined to the same fate? Is this truly a job befitting of a human over an agent?
Ever since I discovered my dad's C++ book in highschool I've absolutely loved coding, but i'm not convinced I have a long stable career ahead of me in SWE -- I'm 30 now and have already seen so much change in the industry during my professional career.
> how viable the economics are for the LLM usage at this level of assurance and how much ownership you exert over the LLM used or another similarly powered one
This piece scares me the most, a world where the next generation models are capped behind capital infeasible for the common person to access, further separating the ultra wealthy from what little remains of the middle class.
My hope is that open source models will fill the moat all of these AI companies so desperately want to dig, aready models like Qwen and Kimi are unfathomably better than what we had just a year or two ago.
There is a fine distinction here that I believe is often glossed over, so the two things it's delineating get muddled together. One of those two things is coding—the rote, mechanical encoding of meaning into computer instructions. It can be argued the LLM is fit to take this out of hands hands almost entirely, and it's almost indisputable the LLM is better at this in at least a certain sizeable subset of coding tasks.
But the other thing is the choosing, determination, specification of the intended meaning itself. This I think is squarely the job of the human, because letting this fall through to the AI means it is no longer the human that is making the decisions. This then becomes not merely automating work but ceding control. This, ultimately, is a bad thing.
So if we accept the premise that the specification of the intended meaning is the job of the human, the question is how you do that. Today many of us do it somewhat half-assedly, by writing lots of natural language text at the LLM and hoping it sticks. It is our hope that the text, given that there is a lot of it, will drive the stochastic machine in a sufficiently correct direction. This works to a degree—meaning we've ceded some control but not the majority of it—not least because we still read (most) of the code but cannot work in the limit, if code reading ceases.
A more proper way to specify the intended meaning is to specify (or "model") your system formally in a system that is mechanically verifiable. Then the final artefact produced by the LLM can be validated by verifying that it aligns with the specification. However this type of high-assurance specification looks a lot like a certain type of programming. In my opinion, writing this kind of specification is the future of human software engineering.
I do not accept the approach of simply rolling the dice and hoping the machine knows better than us, though I'm sure that church is also going to have its acolytes.
Most people that happily use the LLM for coding either are not responsible for the code running or have no qualms to being a reverse centaur.
Ironically I don't think software engineering has progressed much at all since vibe coding got fashionable. Real, meaningful engineering advances are being drowned out by the AI coding religion.
Large codebases are the most complex things we have ever worked on and can easily become unmaintainable. I wanted people who really cared about code quality and consistency in order to offset this.
I think that it would be even more important to hire people like that now and even though we will need less programmers there were never enough of that type to go around anyway.
Didn't Azure, AWS and Cloudflare crash a few times in the second half of 2025 because of vibe coding?
Developement of nuclear power plant software is very conservative, it will use LLMs maybe in 10-15 years.
I've really tried a LOT during therapy and in some other situations. And it just doesn't work for me.
Same with traditional exercise by the way. I can't do exercise in a gym (too empty) or have those 'gamification' goals, it must be more natural. I'm extremely anticompetitive and antiauthoritarian so some watch telling me I'm doing great just generates irritation.
And for me, it is boring and painful AND useful. And took weeks to start to show any benefits at all. Sort of like going to the gym. And people should know that that is a common thing, that you might hate meditation practice but still find it useful and continue.
I'm convinced that meditation doesn't work for a lot of people because it has too much dogma about what it's supposed to be, and maybe those aspects are valid for certain pursuits, but it obscures the core principle.
Take exercise as an example first. It's also a practice that is layered under heaps of nonsense and complexity or fluffed up with idealisms and systems. If you strip all of that away it's about one simple thing: strengthening the muscles and connective tissues of your body including organs like your heart and lungs. Muscle and living tissue only responds to repeated exertion and rest (rest includes nutrition). If you never exceed your current capacity, it will never grow or strengthen and will probably weaken. So exercise becomes simply pushing yourself a little beyond your current capacity and then properly resting afterwards. How you do that is up to you, taking a longer walk than you did last week, slowly mastering calisthenic poses, progressive overload weight training, becoming actually good at ballroom dancing or ballet, competing in field sports, the same principle applies and you get much the same results.
Now returning to meditation, the first thing we should do away with is the label because it is almost as much an error as calling all exercise bodybuilding. It should really be thought of as "attention training" where you are improving your control over and the capacity of your attention. Like with your body, your mind responds to exertion and rest. Both are required. How you train your attention is up to you, sitting without distraction is perhaps the most accessible but it's about as challenging as limiting yourself to doing prison cell bodyweight exercises. Walking without distraction is a very valid practice but is harder to manage since it requires isolation and freedom from interruptions that many people would find on a walking route. Many other techniques have been developed with many different aids and systems but the important thing to remember is that you are trying to do the same thing for your attention as you are for your muscles, push it a little more beyond your current capacity each week and giving it sufficient rest between sessions (including proper nutrition and sleep). If the usual things that are sold as meditation practices don't work for you then try things that seem more natural to you but which still stretch your attention. This could be viewing a piece of art for a set amount of time, finding a location with a fairly static view and doing the same, holding or placing an item you own in front of you and examining it, repeating a line from a book or a poem, listening to a single note repeated on an instrument or hummed. It doesn't really matter much what it is as long as it takes effort to contemplate it for a long duration and isn't so complex and changeable that it overwhelms your untrained ability to fully consider each part of it. Even more active practices can train your attention like writing, penmanship / calligraphy, painting / sketching, yoga, dance, martial arts and others but they are probably not the best place to start if you are fully untrained.
This dovetails into the point of the article, that programming is a form of "meditation" for many people. Really, it's something that you can infinitely stretch your capacity for and exert your attention on.
I know it would be good for me to work out an hour per day but I don't. I just can't bring myself to it.
It's the same with eating, I'm obese but simply eating less just doesn't work.
I can only do exercise when I combine it with something else. Like exploring new trails in nature.
I just don't have discipline and it's not in my character to build it. It'll just end up a few weeks till I drop it again. And more importantly I wouldn't be happy being a disciplined person.
Mediation probably would bring me benefits but it's just too much friction to get to that point so I'll never get there. I've stopped feeling bad about not doing all those things and instead focusing on the things I can do well and that do work for me.
So the problem isn't with mediation, it's with me. But either way it's just out of reach and that's why it didn't work for me.
The point of programming being meditative is equally the point. It just happens to be a way people can get into that. It's something that works for them. It doesn't necessarily mean that more traditional mediation will suit them.
Personally if my job would change so much and I didn't like it I'd pivot to something else instead. Though that's admittedly not always easy.
At some point, when something is not working, you have to write off the sunk cost. In many cases, there's no obvious threshold as to when you make that decision, and it's easy to think that maybe, if you'd just held out a little longer, been a bit more determined, you could have made it work. But you have to make a call, without knowing for certain either way. And it can be the right call, even if, with perfect information, you'd have made the other choice.
So, while I'm sure lots of the people saying "you should just have tried harder" are doing so with complete good will, it's not helpful. You don't know, for another random person on the internet:
* how much work they put in
* what other burdens they were carrying
* what other needs and responsibilities they could use that time and energy on
* how their mind is different to your mind
etc, etc. In short, you don't have most of the information needed to make that decision for them, and you don't have any call to judge them for it.
It works extremely well, and I don't do it as consistently as I should, precisely because it's actually kind of hard work and the reward is uncertain and delayed (though it can also be enjoyable at the time sometimes).
So I'm also in the boat where I don't get the benefits I could get, I get it. Making it a routine is legitimately hard.
I just find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be beneficial to most people if they stuck with it, because so many human problems are caused by fixating on the past and future and ignoring the present.
I can't experience what it's like to be someone else, but based on what other people say and do, most people seem to be experiencing similar problems to me in this regard.
Having said that: if you have any kind of mental health condition like depersonalisation, derealisation etc, you should consult a medical professional before starting any kind of meditation programme.
These are powerful techniques that can be dangerous if used inappropriately by the wrong person
Asking for myself, some friends and HN community at large.
You can only tell people so much in words about how to maintain and train their attention. The better way is to learn by doing and it's easier for people to learn when it involves doing something agreeable to them rather than forcing them to do it the way you did. The original poster said they had tried the standard way many times even with help from a therapist and they didn't make any progress. That's why I felt it necessary to point out that there isn't just one dogmatic way to do it since your attention can and is applied to many different things and just like using your muscles and body to do many different physically demanding things you can train it in a variety of ways.
That’s a huge exaggeration.