In my experience The Netherlands is a rather unsupportive place to do research. There is essentially no money from the government that will pay salaries in full, especially early career salaries (vini, vidi, vici). I have had friends win ERC grants (millions in euros) that were fired as a result because there was not a space in the department to hire them full time (Dutch work law requires contracts to become permanent after a certain number of years of working). Departments also seem to have glass ceilings for non Dutch. Researchers are often given large teaching commitments that cannot be bought out with grants. University incubators seem to be better suited to let professors pretend to be start up founders then actual innovation centers. I have tried on multiple occasions to engage the local incubator and have always been run around. Yet local Dutch have no issues. The rules seem to be different for Dutch than for foreigners. A foreign colleague was offered a lucrative consulting contract (a normal thing for successful professors at other universities). The Dutch university he was at refused to let him take it except under the understanding the money would be entirely consumed by the university and he would receive no compensation for bringing in private money even though he would be doing all of the work. Meanwhile the Dutch colleague in the next office was allowed to start a private consulting agency through the local incubator and spend as much time as he wanted working in the start up. The universities publish reports how progressive they are by evaluating professors on teaching and outreach meanwhile having internal department expectations of PhD students to publish at least four first author papers or are not allowed to graduate (on four year contracts with one year full time teaching commitment). In my experience it is rare that PhD students finish on time. As one adminstrator told me, “university promoters are more interested in promoting their careers then their PhD students” (promoter is the word used for the adviser). The universities also disallow working outside of typical hours and there is no ability to work in your own office on the weekends. Also, recently they defended against this, but it will come up again, the government has discussed changing the tax law such that startup shares will have real world value so new valuations become taxable events.
This all is not atypical to universities world wide. But in the Netherlands I have not found a place that made me feel like I could work to the best of my ability and at the cutting edge. This is unfortunate. It’s nice to live here but I’m leaving to go to greener pastures.
One of the reasons that so many researchers come to the US, even with our decline in research funding over the last 30 years, is because the US makes available so much God damn funding in comparison to any western world. The reason China is starting to outstrip the US? Because they are starting to surpass the US in funding. The only downside I have heard from Chinese scientists is that you tend to get pigeon holed for the rest of your career into things the state wants/needs
Over 5 years...
More correct would be "First international scientists to the Netherlands via the Tulip Fund", which is a far cry from the title as submitted.
An idyllic open prairie, with swarming butterflies
Every chair of the Federal Reserve, from inception to present, holding hands. Mile-wide smiles and shiny teeth, breeze blown hair and dragonflies, and a few actual flies
They traipse (stop motion style, Primus style) through fields of vibrant tulips, as far as an eyeball can see
In the background, a Sinatra-esque voice, with intermittent tones of Nick Cave and dissonant interruptions of Les Claypool sings Tiptoe Through the Tulips, with a scintillating chorus of mewing female voices
The wake of trampled flowers spells the national debt.
A storm brewing in the background.
Next Up: Come to Daddy, by AphexTwin
Paying mandatory but arbitrary amount to a restaurant on top of your bill – tips (not a hidden fee).
Paying someone an official salary – a bribe.
American logic
It just means giving someone money or a different incentive to convince them to do something they weren’t going to do or were undecided but considering doing and the extra incentive is the catalyst for making the decision.
We also have the legal concept of a bribe but the OP probably wasn’t using it in the legal sense - I.e. accusing the Netherlands of doing something illegal.
AI, quantum, vaccines, cancer, Alzheimer's, mental health, nuclear energy, climate, food security, astrophysics, democratic resilience
There isn't a full list of fields or researchers because of privacy or not all researchers have told their current institutions about the change.
Cancer researchers, climatechange, food production, astrophysics, democracy, mental health, Alzheimers, ...
Basically all over the board. But don't worry - you folks still have a president that understands sports really..... REALLY well. /s
Maybe Europe will engage the top American intellectual power into ejecting the real estate prices into orbit.
"De Jonge Akademie, an association of young scientists, warned last year that the fund could end up recruiting academic stars who are not under threat, at a time when Dutch universities were cutting jobs because of government cutbacks. The new cabinet reversed those cuts last month, pledging up to €428 million a year extra for research."
> For the researcher, the qualities must, from an international perspective, far exceed what is customary within the international peer group. The institution receives a maximum of €1 million per researcher for the next five years.
Let's be generous and assume you are one of the chosen ones. Your institution will take 20% off the top leaving with you 1million×.80/5 or 160k EUR per year.
After income taxes, your take home pay is €90,868.00 or $103k USD. Not bad for the average man, but not good for a top researcher like they want.
EUR 160k works out to about $182,640. For that level of income in a top tier institution in a state with an income tax like Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, MD you would take home $121,565, or 15% more.
https://thetax.nl/?income=160000&startFrom=Year&selectedYear...
Should we similarly get rid of mandatory education? Most of it is useless after all.
I'm a physicist in academia, and the amount of money we have gotten from DoD branches for things that have no immediate military applications is like 40-60% of our budget YoY. Like for straight fundamental physics research.
Most scientists I know who have gone to Europe have had to go into the private sector. And the famous ones I work with have gotten like blank check $10M offers from max planck and directorships with guaranteed $1m/yr funding, and still turned them down.
From a European perspective, the most noticeable sign of this is the scarcity of postdocs at American universities. Some fields and individual labs are better funded, but on the average, the universities lean heavily on students doing the actual research.
There's plenty of academics doing fundamental research in Europe. But somehow the ball is dropped on turning that research into successful businesses. So eg. uni graduates doing research in EU, then move to US & found a startup there, is sadly a common pattern.
As I understand it, mostly due to funding suppliers (gov, VCs, banks etc) being more risk-averse than in US. Regulation pressure doesn't help either.
But for years it has been the other way around. Top talent from the Netherlands has been moving to the US in order to get funding (and a bigger salary).
I live here in the US. I've NEVER heard the term bribe in a neutral or even positive way. It might be used in a mocking way, as if to mock the idea of bribes, but never seriously.
So, unless you are confusing that mocking nature as morally neutral or even positive, this is incorrect.
This is... wildly wrong. ASML is a multi-national company that licenses IP largely from USA and Japan, but also Taiwan and Germany. The actual EUV light source is developed and produced in California by Cymer, which ASML acquired in 2013. But ASML was only permitted to acquire the company under a strict technology sharing and export control agreement with the US government. Additionally, a huge portion of the photolithography research is directly developed (and owned) by US companies and research organizations such as IBM, Albany NanoTech, and SEMATECH.
There is a reason why ASML's next-generation research photolithography machine is currently being installed and developed in upstate New York, and not somewhere in the Netherlands. The same reason that Cymer is still in San Diego instead of being relocated to Europe.
[0] https://www.eetimes.com/asml-to-build-400-million-us-researc...
[1] https://www.eetimes.com/asml-sematech-team-on-manufacturing-...
Europe is in its own set of problems and it is not in the same situation that US used to be after WW2 (only major economy not affected by bombing).
Europe's problems:
* active major war in Ukraine (lasting longer than Axis/Soviet war in WW2)
* energy supply issues (unlike US it's not energy sufficient and the places that supply it with energy are involved with wars)
* a wall of people aging away from employment and into doctor's and hospital waiting rooms (forcing less investment into research and roads/bridges/railway, more towards stabilizing pensions, healthcare)
* major pieces of the european export economy are being replaced by China (eg chinese car brands eating the lunch of european car brands).
Nobel Laureate in Chemistry Omar M. Yaghi joins Tsinghua University full-time https://www.tsinghua.edu.cn/en/info/1244/14984.htm
What do you mean? I've never been to China, but know quite a few non-han white Europeans who lived there for both shorter and longer periods of time. Some studied, others worked there.
Would it be silly to add "general lack of air conditioning" to that list? I imagine at some point it inevitably stops being a joke and starts being a real problem. Have we reached that point yet? [1] [2]
[1] https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-frances-june-heatwave...
[2] https://www.dw.com/en/heat-wave-european-countries-report-37...
Both Japan and South Korea were equally devastated and yet they managed to build world-class technology industries in the subsequent decades. I think the problems with Europe and the EU are a lot deeper than that.
Besides, 90K after taxes is upper middle class. 160K / year is 13K / month which is nearly twice the average income of the richest country in Europe (Switzerland) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_...), or top 0.1% according to https://www.givingwhatwecan.org/how-rich-am-i.
And that's just salary based on that number, it doesn't include other income sources.
Also there are usually very very generous pension schemes here, so total pay is actually quite a lot higher than stated. In addition there is very generous holiday allowance, 41 days at UCL for instance, since you get extra holidays when the university is closed over certain holiday days.
I don't know what their salaries would be exactly. This is probably most dependent on where they land, as salaries are very often standardized in Europe. There's usually salary grids per institution dependent on seniority with some milestones being merit-based. Quick google search indicates gross salaries for Professor level (mid/late career) researchers to be around 110-165k€ in NL.
That seems pretty sweet. It's comparable to what US professors make in the hard sciences, as far as I know, with lower CoL than most areas where professors make similar salaries.
And again, salary isn't everything to a researcher. If they can't hire, they're pretty strapped. At this career stage, they're managers, not so much individual contributors. I'd say a maxed out lab for 5 years off the bat is pretty enticing, which also gives time to get up to speed on European funding schemes like ERC grants.
I was a postdoc in the US during Trump's reelection and there were several months where my institution and others had completely cut off scientific staff (such as postdocs, research scientists and engineers) recruitment due to NSF defunding and other threats. Even now, they got taxed on endowment and lost basically 10% budget. This is considerable, and a source of stress for researchers and their current/prospective staff. You can't work properly if you're under the Damocles sword of being laid off / having to lay off your staff.
What use do propagandists and fascists have for research? It only stands to continually disprove their lies. They obviously hate science and truth and want it gone, to be replaced with cult of personality and Christian nationalism.
Europe's economy has been slowing down since 2007, which is the peak of conventional oil. The problem of Europe is that is doesn't have access to abundant energy like the US does. The US likes to think that they have a better economy because they are smarter/work harder, but the reality is simple: abundant energy makes the economy.
If you measure with anything else useful like (healthy) life expectancy or happiness level, state of the democracy, etc... like if you think the the economy must serve the people and not the other way, I'd say Europe is way more successful despite the real issues.
Actually, I'm baffled at how US performs poorly for their people given they have abundant energy. Norway and Iceland also have abundant energy and their people are seeing the benefits.
It's just a totally different scale of comparison that does not work - those Nordic countries are smaller than many counties in US states. It's like comparing Iceland to Santa Barbara, etc.
For comparsion, in the US as of 2023, nearly 48 million inhabitants (14.3% of total) are foreign-born (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat...). Or the Netherlands, 4.4 million of its ~18 million inhabitants are from abroad (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_Netherland...).
The relative population size of those countries likely plays a role there. Split China into 4 countries, each with a population about equal to that of the USA, and I bet that number for China goes up significantly. Split it into 75 countries each the size of the Netherlands, and it would go up even further (some people moving home within Beijing would emigrate)
China is also objectively becoming more closed, not more open.
Not just the total amount including random people arriving at the coast.
Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another.
China is the opposite of that. You are hard hammered into the Han-ness, immediately. The language, the writing (which is a HUGE hurdle), the food, the way of life.
* language issues. Many chinese don't speak english. Also a problem in many european countries (esp latin and slavic speaking ones), but at least the european languages are easier to learn. Compare this to Amsterdam, Goteborg, Berlin-Mitte or Kopenhagen where everyone speaks english.
* citizenship is one of the hardest to get in the world.
* I heard complaints about onboarding into the chinese app/digital ID ecosystem.
I was mostly in first tier cities, though I did travel through some more obscure places. The worst hostility I experienced was 5 foot tall grandma with sharp elbows determined to cut in line in front of the big stupid foreigner who is passive aggressively placing his wheelie bag in her way.
If you're curious, just go. The cities are amazing, the people are friendly. Even in Beijing you can easily avoid the tourist traps. While it's not as perfectly safe as Japan or Taiwan, I spent a lot of jet lag recovery time wandering the streets late at night. Once I spent half an hour in a taxi garage at 2am at some unknown location after a 45 minute misdirected taxi ride, arranging a ride to my intended hotel. I think that's about as lost as one can get and it was fine.
Yes many houses don't have AC. We didn't need it so much until climate change (of which the US is one of the largest contributors no less). But if you move here and care about it just pick a place that has it or where you can install it. It's available if you want it.
It's not a big thing that should be influencing any decision to move. It's just being blown up and politicised because of the current heatwave. Aircon is not prohibited nor frowned upon here, it's just that we didn't really need it so much before and people are still reluctant to invest in it. Especially in the more northern countries it's not really needed anyway, during a heatwave yes but that's a couple weeks a year. Also, it's not a complete solution. Most of us here live outdoor much more, we don't drive cars much so we need to deal with the heat outside anyway.
We also have nice community options like climate shelters here.
I'm not even blaming Europe for having so little A/C - more power to them for being able to handle the heat with less impact on climate change; they have my approval! I'm just saying if you're expecting Americans to immigrate there, this seems like a very real obstacle. That's all.
But really in the netherlands which this article is about it should not be a barrier. The weather there in summer is extremely variable. Yes you get some hot days but they are few. And like I said, if you really want AC you are free to pick a place that has it. If you're a skilled migrant you will be well compensated anyway. You will have your pick. Viewing that as a barrier is just blowing things out of proportion.
The same way that American media is these days talking about Europe like it's overrun with migrants, it's just political.
You know what, me, an European, just received this morning ? The AC unit I ordered.
It's not hard to install AC in Europe, it's just that until a few years ago, we never needed it. The only real blocker today is when you are living in an apartment and the condominium council refuses AC installation for esthetical reasons, but it's something that can change (either by the vote of co-owners, or by law if needed). And if you are renting, you are stuck until the legislation changes and forces owners to provide summer comfort the same way they must provide heating in winter.
Where the heatwave is only recent, there are some bureaucratic issues (like historic buildings should not get "defaced" by the external unit and whatnot), but I think this is way too exaggerated when talking about the whole of the EU.
Its orders of magnitude harder. When I lived in the USA, I could just pick up a $200 window unit and have it installed within minutes. Every single person had air conditioning. Now I live in Finland where the windows are the worst designed windows I've ever seen. They are thin, tall windows that open vertically on hinges like doors. So rain gets in, and its impossible to install a window AC or even a box fan. You're forced to either install a mini split ($1000+) or central air. And neither options are available for renters. Really, the #1 priority should be trying to bring American style sliding windows to Europe. Then everything else can fall into place downstream of that.
My point is that we are not in an AC crisis, we just need to change the laws so that owners are forced to provide, however they want, summer comfort in the same way they must provide winter comfort.
Unlike energy autonomy, green transition, or defense issues, the "AC issue" is actually easy to tackle for governments and I'm betting it will happen pretty soon because that's an easy win that costs nothing to governments and governments loves popular measures that cost nothing and and give them the good role.
German style tilting windows close as tightly as the regular (or door-like as you say) do. UK has windows sliding up, but is also famous for being drafty as the windows are never tight. I suppose good sliding windows can exist though?
I have myself pondered the problem with regular windows and a movable AC. My apartment has old school 4-pane windows with 2 layers both having their own window handles, so 8 independent small windows for each opening. They do look great in an old building but I don't see any reasonable way to set up AC with these. Thankfully no need yet as the apartment has never reached 30C inside, but we'll see what the future brings.
The idea that they're at a disadvantage to Ireland in that aspect because the latter has more numbers-wise was what was addressed.
They might very well not be open. Or they might be open in a selective and cautious way, which would be more prudent than merely being open for all.
Human change can be subject to the law of large numbers, but nothing necessitates any particular change being towards progress.
>Skilled polish engineers don't want to be the only polish person in the entire country. They want food, culture, community that reminds them of home. Even as they assimilate. That's why the American melting pot works well. It encourages enclaves that touch one another.
The American melting pot works well (or worked well) because it was a nation made up from a blank canvas with no prior historically established dominant ethnicity or culture the kind other nations have had going for millenia.
And even at that was built on first disenfranchizing (to put it midly) the natives.
For what it's worth, this is the terminology I learned in school decades ago, but I don't think it's preferred anymore. My daughter has a book that calls it a "salad" instead (mixed but retaining their respective properties). I'm probably just old and crotchety but I like that way less.
I feel like a lot of Americans disagree on these nowadays though, no? Source: just look at recent campaigns and elections.
People from the big immigrant cities like NYC, SF, LA are more likely to hold the latter position.
The Mormons of Utah, the Cajun/French of Louisiana, the Norwegians in the Dakotas, the Scotch Irish of everywhere, and the Amish are all (non-brown) examples of enclaves existing in the US. Nobody says that they are not assimilating well. We let them live their lives because personal liberty used to be a thing here.
most of the A.I researchers are already Chinese.
now imagine other talented researchers on their way to earn Nobels - they're already in China & other countries but not visible yet.
this corrupt US administration fxxked the US in ways that will be felt for decades.
Compared to the US or Europe? No it's not debatable.
No dual citizenship at all, most probably no citizenship. Harder residency. Good luck bringing family there.
Not going to even mention the obscene difference in racism OR the language barrier, both of which are enormous factors.
Language wise, absolutely. Racism-wise, I think you underestimate how wildly racist the US is. As a European, I am still quite shocked. Everything in that country is viewed through the lens of skin color.
Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors. You're allowed to take your family along with you too, and the language barrier doesn't translate in the professional setting. Racism is a non-issue since I doubt these researchers will even be interacting with elements of that segment of Chinese Han society, unless they choose to.
(This is also true of Europeans in Dubai..)
Because it's an important matter regarding immigration. If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining?
>Once you're invited by the CCP for your exceptional research background, you're literally given an open chequebook for both your personal compensation and your future research endeavors.
None of which is related to immigration.
>You're allowed to take your family along with you too, and the language barrier doesn't translate in the professional setting. >Racism is a non-issue since I doubt these researchers will even be interacting with elements of that segment of Chinese Han society, unless they choose to.
Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
This just reads like deeply, deeply delusional reasoning attempting to paint China as a good alternative.
Any position that's hiring foreigners is going to have multiple foreigners. And it creates a scenario where, by default, foreigners will hang out with foreigners and locals will hang out with locals. The same is true outside of work as there tend to be large expat communities everywhere and even schools/communities almost entirely for expats.
Immigrants (especially in Asia) are never going to blend in with the local population naturally. The cultures are so far removed that you'll never 'fit in.' That doesn't mean you can't make local friends and acquaintances, but that you can choose not to. And yeah I'd highly recommend almost anywhere in Asia to people, including China.
It's nothing what like you probably imagine if you've never been. You can find about a zillion videos of people vlogging about their life in Asia. Here [1] is some random video from an American in China. Granted, he speaks crazy good Chinese so it's a different perspective than the one I'm talking about, but he can hit on more issues re:China. I've visited China, but never lived there. He's been there 16 years.
I don't think OP is doing this, just stating the obvious. The invitation implies $$$ but not naturalization.
> If you want to live in a country, you might want to actually be a citizen of that country. Does that need explaining?
Yeah might, so it is big question depending on the situation, and even bigger once you got more passports or permanent residence. For example people intentionally avoid US permanent residence or citizenship for global taxation.
> Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
All the time, especially the US expats in China. They tend to live in nice communities for foreigners in a few tier-1 cities, they go to western style international hospitals and their kids goes to fancy international schools. Basically employers have everything prepared nicely for them, hence the contrast of China between foreigners and citizens.
In terms of racism in China or east Asia as a whole, there is practically no problem for white ppl, small problem for indians, big problem for blacks.
In the reverse direction in the US there are Chinese/Latino spending their lives in their own ethnic community without speaking English at all, it is not that uncommon, just invisible.
> Are you seriously suggesting that people can literally just not engage at all with the society they live in?
This pretty much confirms you have never lived overseas lol. Anyone who has will have met many people that achieve this. Like living anywhere immersing yourself in your surroundings (w/e that means to you) takes extra effort. Most people go overseas to work. It's not playtime. With that comes a built in community.
> None of which is related to immigration
How is getting money and support to live in a place not related to immigration?
Why are you so reactive about something you clearly know nothing about? Because China bad?
>Short of that, there is a wide spectrum on how countries treats immigrants. This is the most important factor for people actually living in a place.
Yes. Does China treat immigrants better than the US? As I explained, no. There is no contest. The comparison borders on the absurd. The US is a remarkably flawed country in many aspects, but the vast majority of the stigma around its immigration comes from the fact that it's a matter that the US takes very, very seriously. The bar for living somewhere is not necessarily citizenship but it absolutely is a factor if someone is seriously planning to immigrate somewhere.
For an incredibly evident and very current example, the 14th amendment was very recently reaffirmed, with a whole lot of people being horrified it was even thrown into question at all.
>How is getting money and support to live in a place not related to immigration?
Because any quantity of money beyond a livable wage has barely any relation to integrating people into a culture. A model of immigration based on money is not immigration at all, that's just hiring foreign workers.