Logseq 2.0 Beta (DB version) is here(github.com) |
Logseq 2.0 Beta (DB version) is here(github.com) |
And now after several years of complete stagnation, the supposed improvement is a database format to fix their technical issues, so I can no longer keep all my data as markdown files? At a time when half the edits are done by Claude and tracked with jujustu, this is just not useful for me.
All I wanted was the original vision, but with less bugs and more quality of life features.
It’s sad because Logseq felt like a more focused tool than either Emacs or Obsidian, and really nailed the UI/UX that I wanted. But the interface was slow and buggy, and both the Org and Markdown backends are sufficiently non-standard that I didn’t want to continue writing my notes in that unless I believe Logseq is going to be around for a while. And I’m not at all excited by the large investment in the database backend, given that being backed by plain text is their largest feature from my point of view.
It also means the file based syncing I use is not going to work anymore, which... On the other hand... Is maybe right out for me.
Does anyone know of a fork a version one that plans to continue?
While I like using .md files, I can understand the perspective of needing database level syncing.
I haven't kept up with it, not sure why the existing Logseq didn't quietly start using a database internally, and also output .md files too to have both worlds.
Syncing text files can, does and most often will break given enough complexity and multi-device usage, especially with the most basic use case of using a daily note on multiple locations at the same time.
But it has been dormant for years and early attempts at syncing didn’t work well. I paid to support the sync effort but we saw nothing for years. That’s a painfully long time.
Over the last few weeks, with the help of Claude Code I've finally been able to dive into Obsidian and build out the second brain I've always wanted. With the power to auto-sort small thoughts jotted down on my phone with minimal interruption and some automated maintenance & sorting.
CC has really reduced the friction to getting started with Obsidian that's held me back for years.
Hopefully they at least got something out of it for themselves from that VC money.
The db probably is the cleaner place for Logseq's note storage, but invites comparison to Obsidian, whose fundamental unit of information is already a document, where Logseq's is more like a bulletpoint. Logseq being open source where Obsidian isn't could maybe blunt the edge of moving to a less-portable format, but a user can also understandably look at the status of two-way sync and see an unsexy "In-progress" and figure that's not good enough. Logseq also carries some baggage wrt instability, and the argument that the db is the pro-stability move unfortunately needs to be proven over time. Overall seems like a rough spot to be in.
I dunno. I like Logseq and wish them a good launch.
I switched to it from Apple Notes + Obsidian (I've used logseq MD in the distant past). I have to say though that there are still some rough edges in the current developments and many concepts are still half-baked (Assets, Library).
I still use it because with it, I take more notes and retrieve them better, which is really convenient. The barrier to jotting something down is very low. I think the dev have really hit a sweet spot so I hope they can polish this application as it should be.
I originally came from Roam and was really happy to find an offline alternative in Logseq. I've since moved to Obsidian, though. Obsidian works well, but I still feel like my brain works best with the outliner-style workflow that Roam and Logseq offer.
I have heard of https://outl.app/ but when I tried it out, it still seemed in a very early stage (and heavily vibe-coded, which I also don't enjoy).
Despite enjoying logseq a lot it has stagnated for so long (and the mobile app is atrocious) that I ended up moving to obsidian. It was frustrating to see "new" versions get updates, bug fixes, and QoL improvements that I couldn't use unless I was willing to run an unstable build (plus they didn't update the mobile app during the beta, so it felt half-baked anyway). Even now, it's still a beta. Its such a shame.
So far I liked them both, Logseq is quirkier but I can live with quirky in FOSS. Confusingly enough though, now a new rework is announced and switching away from Markdown... One improvement I want from Keep is to have notes synced to my Linux PC and grep over them, so this news make the decision easier I guess.
I'd much rather have my information on the go in the cloud. None of this is so important I'll need it in 10 years or so secret I can't let the cloud service see it.
then you're a pretty unusual note taker because personal notes frequently cover anything from medical, financial, work-related or simply dates, addresses or other personally identifiable information none of which I would ever remotely trust with an online cloud service. In particular not in an ecosystem of haphazardly abandoned and rebooted projects that are maintained in a Discord channel.
Maybe this time I'll find one with a sane extension system, so it isn't open-season for malware.
I'm sorry to have said goodbye to what used to be a great community project, but they've been following the classic enshittification model, albeit slowly, for a while now.
Transparent native markdown was maybe my top ranking feature.
NewTags is pretty sweet: https://discuss.logseq.com/t/introducing-newtags-with-exampl... <-- MASSIVELY improved my meeting notes.
Bunch of reasons.
You don't have to, though. If the old version works, just keep using it :)
I agree that the migration path should be clearly documented.
Possibly worth pointing out that this is a Logseq thing in general, and not specific to the DB version. And I agree it's pretty great - I don't use it often, but it is very handy when I do. Much more usable than YAML frontmatter, which requires dedicated pages for everything.
FWIW, needing typed notes is what settled me on Trilium Notes after a foray into a bunch of alternatives, including Notion, Anytype, Obsidian, etc
I realized that efficient note taking and knowledge management generally means (to me) having "dimension lists" (collections of places, people, projects, ...) being referred to in topical notes/journals/events, generally organized as a hierarchy (but not always). Once you come to that realisation (and that your notes system is essentially a glorified RDBMS), you want a system that ensures that "notes of the same type remain as consistent as possible", which Trilium makes easy via Templates and/or Inheritance (attributes can be inherited in the OOP sense, or composed like traits), collections to represent, manage and edit large amounts of notes at once, and emacs-levels of scripting if that's your jam.
I do version control by exporting the .edn (a serialized file that contains all nodes) and using git.
All of that is very alpha (to be honest, I don't understand them releasing a beta now). You need to hang in the discord from time to time to make sure you do not miss a thing. I think my note app being open-source is pretty important to me that I still deal with that.
Though because of this tagging thing, it seems very "AI-ready" in the sense that queries are naturals as some block have an identity.
An example: I have a tag called job-application which has a status (like a checked box) for applied, in-process, awaiting-input, discarded, ... and I have a tag for the pages that corresponds with my research projects, with status (published, chased, forgotten, ...) and some information (GitHub, collaborators, ...).
there are views that summarize this (all projects, all jobs application)
When I mention a person in my journal, it's very easy to see how my last meeting with them went and all.
I don't use sync, I've been told it works really well.
EDIT: I forgot to say you can enable a markdown-mirror and have one way sync (DB->MD) which is very convenient for agent, or if you like markdown.
I appreciate the standard, intuitive keyboard shortcuts for creating/removing bullets, indenting/outdenting, moving lines up or down, etc.
Also, you can use the built-in syntax for block references to kinda-sorta recreate the Roam block-based setup.
Obsidian's data model, a huge selling point to some, really hinders it too. Logseq's new db format let's you treat any block as a page, metadata and all which can be super helpful.
It's open-source, really well designed, local, you can even self-host sync...
But: the devs make questionable decisions that makes the development roadmap quite bumpy. It should ease up.
So I hope others dip their toe in it builds momentumn
Invite code: jesus-saves
Think Workflowy outliner meets plugin extensibility of Obsidian, meets the beauty of Linear, meets the markdown feel of Bear notes
we now have the local P2P sync that enables you to sync all notes through all of your devices and many more features to come
Truth is, it's been nearly a decade since I used Workflowy and nothing has ever been as good. But the inability to email notes to it or otherwise push data to it from other sources was such a deal breaker. Particularly as mobile became a larger and larger part of my life.
Then there was Moo.do, the next best infinite-outline tool I could find. Their rebrand as Legend was strange, made it hard to find the app, and, from an SEO perspective, was an odd choice.
One of these days I should return to either Workflowy or Legend. My issues were silly and now are much more surmountable.
EDIT: WOW, Workflowy has really gotten with the times! Seems to be iterating much faster and even has an MCP server.
Invite: jesus-saves
Medical history is all in Epic. And I’m struggling to think of much of anything in my personal digital life from 10 years from now I’ve ever looked at. I guess long term investments I’ll need the cost basis when I sell. That’s in my brokerage account.
And if Epic or my broker abruptly disappear I’ll have larger issues. As will society.
Could have just done it without it? Certainly, this just helped me build something more scalable than I knew how to on my own, and then I learned from it. And on an ongoing basis it'll help organize the things in daily notes and inbox and place them appropriately.
To put it another way, it helped me get from 0 to 1 and will do some of the routine maintenance required to move things from my second brain's short-term memory to long-term.
We probably have that in common that I went through a pretty long and exhausting journey of looking for the right note-taking app/PKMS, but while I started with the conviction that I needed an outliner, I landed elsewhere.
I do appreciate the theoretical beauty of "everything is a block" (and for the record, that is approximated pretty closely in Trilium by "(almost) everything is a note"), but the execution is often messy (tags/models hierarchies are hard to build and keep consistent/up to date, there is always the duality between embedding and referring because sometimes a sub-block is a block, and that forces you into defining more types or risk losing context and not being able to find the note but by name, if you can even remember it, etc). Tana and its "supertags" comes pretty close to the perfect outliner because it has a convenient UX around all those pain points, but I find it exhausting to use over time/as the PKMS grows.
I think Trilium saves me from a lot of cognitive burden by keeping the shape of the notes collection explicit and visible at all times (via its hierarchy). Also for the record, I'm not trying to brainwash you, only describing that there is a journey into and out of outliners :-)
https://github.com/SharifIsmail/tendril
Feel free to give it a try. Agents can also directly interact with it.
It's not quite done yet, but when it is I think I'll anonymize it and share it on GitHub. In the meantime, here's a pretty screenshot without anything personal: https://snipboard.io/tyRYEJ.jpg https://snipboard.io/mryYKe.jpg
Also used CC to help me build some complex Apple shortcuts to let me capture stuff easily. Either by sharing it or hitting the button on the side of my phone and jotting it down (that Claude didn't do quite as well at, but it got me 75% of the way and helped me learn how to make complex branching shortcuts)
There is one basic function Obsidan lacks - some variation of rollups to link fields in different notes in a structured way. It's where I really did like Logaeq better. I’m going to try using Claude to "reconcile" that stuff on a recurring basis.
To some extent I've probably tried to make Obsidian into Notion. But it's more flexible and free.
Did this work: https://limewire.com/d/lxbCj#HqQOJwUfCE
Personally, I'm not interested, but to each their own.
I think I am, because I want my referenced notes to be typed. And the depth and accuracy of those types defines the extent of the knowledge being keept track of, considering that it also evolves and morphs over time. If I don't care to have categories of notes that I comprehend (Persons, Projects, Vehicles, …) and curated and up-to-date properties for them, I don't even know what kind of content is there and what kind of queries/answer I can expect out of my PKMS. I want determinism on a formal, fundamental level.
