If you want more PhD's than that, you have to figure out a place for them to work; industry is a good "pressure relief valve".
http://www.moe.gov.cn/srcsite/A22/moe_826/202312/t20231218_1...
https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/show-award/?AWD_ID=2624416
Appropriately enough for a pilot, there's a structured usual cohort-mentoring and outcomes evaluation component.
(NSF brings 3 years of $$$, but as it is, it doesn't seem like attempt to nudge people screwed over by GRFP restrictions towards industry.)
https://uidp.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/UIDP-I-PhD-Schol...
The critical part imho will be allowing for enough independence in research, and that the time isn't just wasted filling in remedial RAs pushing pipettes around. Real safeguards will be needed, likely overseen by the PI and committee.
I genuinely hope it works and helps industry "figure out" that R&D is more than just simply productizing over the next quarter.
Academia as we know it has been dead for a while, and AI is the final harbinger. The reproducibility crisis got that much worse now that the papers that nobody ever bothered to reproduce have grown 10x in number with the press of a button.
At least the industry research jobs pay well, even if they suffer many of the same issues.
There’s already a 3-4 year advanced degree in the United States with an optional thesis component that companies in relevant industries can intervene in and direct if they so desire.
So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates.
I’m open to any theories about what the real point of this is.
Masters is usually about 2 years, though it could be longer in some cases or if worked on part-time. PhD is often 4-6+.
What 3-4 year degree did you mean? Bachelors?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_degree#United_Sta...
There isn't.
And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short.
> So why are they calling it a doctorate? I don’t see the point. It’s not like the NSF under this administration is particularly fond of STEM doctorates.
The I-PhD is basically a formalization of industry-sponsored PhDs based on the program site [0]
My coworkers holding such degrees would beg to differ.
> And if you are trying to snarkily describe an MS, then most MS programs are too short.
It wasn’t snarky, it was a listing of common points between the two. I don’t see what distinguishes this from a MS.
A year still isn’t enough time to write a doctoral-level thesis, so if the I-PhD is supposed to represent a “longer MS” then it’s still insufficient.
You're making this up as you go. No MS lasts 3-4 years, almost all MS theses are book reports/unpublished because the student is primarily attending classes, almost none are directed by industry (see points 1 and 2).
[0] often a leadership or personality failure of the PI
I do think it would be good for all levels of academia to be more explicit about the goals of any given program. I think these things are often blurred together to the detriment of both student and staff.
An aside, the Actuarial profession's fellowship credentials (FSA/FCAS) are considered to be roughly equivalent in content to a professional doctorate (not counting a medical residency), and have a completely different format.
It's mostly exam based from pure self study, and aspiring actuaries typically work full time in the industry after passing the first 2-3 exams and finishing a bachelor's (which can be in any subject). Typical travel time from the first exam to the fellowship credential is 6-8 years, IIRC. Employers pay employees for some study time and for exam leave for each exam, with a bonus for each one passed.
I bring this all up because there are a lot of other ways for education to be structured outside of the BS -> MS -> PhD pathway, and there are ways for learning to be integrated with industry.
In all OECD countries, but in particular in Germany, there seems to be an enormous overproduction of PhDs – in case one sees a PhD as the starting point of an academic career or as an important asset on the job market.
https://socialscienceworks.org/2015/07/243/are-there-too-man...
I am aware of that system, doing a PhD in a company as an external PhD student. The "research" is extremely applied. That is good for the company, possibly even a better career choice, but has limited scientific value. You are also unlikely to switch back to academia and become a professor.
Most people mistake "feeling" for "thinking". Just because you don't like my post, does not mean it is not true.
Edit: I just reread your comment. I think it is for students who are already doing their MS or have previously done so and are applying to PhD programs
I do wonder if NSF is hoping to seed more industry-sponsored PhDs as well, e.g., the first will be funded by NSF to establish the program, and industry will fund more once the program gets going.
Definitely makes sense to me they call it a PhD, not a master’s. A PhD is more prestigious and signals the holder is ready and eager to do cutting-edge research and has some experience doing so.
There are all kinds of master’s degrees (I say as someone who has one) and reasons for getting them, so they’re not as strong a signal of anything in particular. And they can mean someone switched careers, someone dropped out of a PhD program, someone took advanced classes during undergrad, someone got a bachelor’s in one country and wanted to study and work in another, etc.
I imagine there are departments where it’s more common to get a master’s by dropping out of the PhD program early than through any other path. Especially for people with a bachelor’s in the same field.
Lololol extremely. They're cash cows because of foreign students paying full price and not getting tuition waivers.
> Especially for people with a bachelor’s in the same field.
Lol bruh an enormous number of schools have 4+1 programs to enable students getting terminal MS even easier.