Thelio Mira AI Linux Workstation: 192 GB GPU Memory(system76.com) |
Thelio Mira AI Linux Workstation: 192 GB GPU Memory(system76.com) |
If it wasn’t for the fact the 6000 Pro is selling for like 100% ($9,000) over MSRP it would probably look a lot more reasonable.
If running models then Apple is fine, if training or tuning or large number of users then Nvidia is king
Can I afford it? Absolutely not.
That's a bitter pill to swallow. Most of this is the cost of the Nvidia card, and the RAM.
Graphics:
(...)
+$18,399 192 GB Dual NVIDIA RTX PRO 6000 w/ 1000W + 750W PSUs (non-refundable) +$37,239
Memory:
(...)
192 GB DDR5 3600 MHz (4x48) +$1,874
It would be great if China had more lithography machine....
Wish I built this a few years ago!
> 96 GB Dual NVIDIA RTX PRO 5000 w/ 1000W PSU (non-refundable) +$19,169
Though I don't think there's anything stopping you from trying to stuff an H100 into this machine if you want to BYO.
A Threadripper ain’t cheap, but if you’re spending $45k on a workstation it seems like a weird place to skimp. Not to mention you’d then have the option of shoveling a few more 6000 pros in it when you want to run something larger (assuming your home/office electrical box can support it).
Hope they have good overall cooling the case, cooling doesn't seem to be mentioned, it'll be a noisy little machine no doubt :)
Edit: The Max-Q is one of the options, what's the other option then?
The CPU market seems to be missing the "HEDT" platform we used to enjoy.
From $3,299 (with just 64 GB RAM and a 4 GB GPU) to over $50,000. Very affordable indeed.
Configure Thelio Mira with up to:
16-core AMD Ryzen 9000 Series CPU
192 GB DDR5 RAM
Dual NVIDIA RTX Pro 6000 GPU
192 GB GPU memory
dual RTX6000 price is : $40,538.00
I don't really need one. But I do have a 4.5K mac book pro for work. Yes it's a bit overpowered. But it's the main vehicle with which I earn a living and it routinely saves me time by blazing through builds and generally doing things quickly for me. I have slightly more GPU on that thing than I need. But it's nice to have the option to experiment with some of the open weight AI models.
Maybe it's the "routinely" or the "people" part, but "people" generally don't ever buy a 80K car, it's a small fraction of the population who can afford such luxury cars. And I'm sure the ones who buy cars for 80K, unless they're car enthusiasts or just plain billionaires, don't do so "routinely" either.
Then I will do a video of me playing Crysis on it
This dual NVIDIA RTX PRO 6000 setup has 192GB of VRAM at 1.8 TB/s, versus the 5-stack of Macs that collectively have 1.25 TB at 1.2 TB/second... I'm not convinced that equation comes out in Nvidia's favour.
[1]https://system76.com/support/difference-between-pop-ubuntu
Can honestly say that was one of the best trades I’ve ever done. I didn’t buy another computer for 3 more years.
Oh, it's System76, that's why. Open hardware. Makes sense.
Edit: Also Nvidia
The real benefits to going Mac is its quiet and discreet, high wife/CEO acceptance design, and their huge GPU-assignable shared RAM.
If you're okay with your desk being the wing top of a flying airplane, and 3M Peltor or David-Clark is your favorite working time headphone brand anyway, then your build will be faster and cheaper than a maxed out Mac Studio.
Maybe they're waiting on HBM? Given that they're skipping M6 Max to go straight for M7, I'd assume they're doing a redesign for it.
As that’s unified memory à la Apple and I think up to 128gb
Someone can work around this by including a PCIe 5.0 switch like the Broadcom PEX89048. That switch can be used to, for instance, have the two GPUs talk to each other at full PCIe 5.0 16x speeds, while talking to the motherboard at say PCIe 4.0 16x, or even 8x. As an end user, cards using that switch seem to be an AliExpress only item, but I assume an OEM like System76 could get their hands on it to place directly on the motherboard. I imagine the price of adding that to a motherboard could be less than the price of switching to a Threadripper or Xeon 600 platform.
However, I can't find any evidence that System76 has added a switch, and in fact they refer to x8/x8 multi-GPU support, making me think they didn't add a switch. To my mind, this isn't a very satisfactory setup.
Truly, I get your point, but $45k is obscene for a workstation (because of the RAM shortage). I can’t fathom it being a reasonable decision[1] unless you’re able to churn an immense profit from it. And… if you can, it’s an expense that saves time, energy, and effort. If it is only profitable when $8k in price difference makes it viable, is that really worth the effort? An $8k increase making a difference, when you’re wholly dependent on the frontier (or near frontier) lab not releasing a model that makes your work(station) irrelevant— seems reckless. Couple that with the doubling of DeepSeek’s parameters for their flash model… and well the math just don’t math for my naive brain.
[1] I’m absolutely incapable of spending that much on a workstation so my opinions may be irrelevant… but I cannot understand the “stepping over quarters to save a penny” mentality[2].
[2] I could be missing the forest for the trees. As a result, I’d love to know how I am being shortsighted. I just can’t fathom a situation where an $8k surcharge in system RAM doesn’t make sense. It’s not about system RAM, it’s about GPU RAM, margins, and useful lifetime of the system.
So they offer both options.
Hmm, why? I don't understand why better models being available remotely would change the usefulness of what you already have working locally? If it works for you, it works, regardless of what the frontier labs have, and if it doesn't, it doesn't, again regardless.
-_-
Some of us worked hard in life and have spare money, sue me!
Still, you're right, I have a 1200W PSU for a single RTX Pro 6000, cost ~500 something, so still the PSU shouldn't be that large part of the total budget.
But you'll find most household power sockets aren't actually rated for the kind of power these things draw at peak. If you go for a dual GPU you're going to want to sustain a higher current. Think washer / drier / fridge kind of hookups for the UPS and that rig.
You spent $42K on the rig, you're also going to need to get an electrician in and have the electrical hookup seen to. The single 4090 I'm running put me right up to that edge where I could use a standard electrical hookup with a 1000w UPS.
So another $1K for the UPS, and $500 worth of electrical work (or more if they have to up the switch to 200 amps, for example).
Not for the faint of wallet.
Are they possibly selling setups they haven't actually tested practically in the real world?
In other fields, sure, but for big LLMs it's a very significant part of the performance picture. That stack of Macs also is going to be able to natively run models 4-5x larger than the dual Blackwells can hold in memory - any model over about 128GB of weights isn't going to fit on the GPUs, and is going to be heavily performance constrained by moving data across the PCIE bus.
> maybe Apple launched something new in the last 2-3 months that has completely changed the picture
Indeed. The M5 Ultra (currently up for pre-order) has 50% higher memory bandwidth than its predecessor, and a claimed 4x improvement in prompt prefill.
Not sure if you misunderstand what GPUs we're talking about, one RTX Pro 6000 has 96GB of VRAM.
> Indeed. The M5 Ultra (currently up for pre-order) has 50% higher memory bandwidth than its predecessor, and a claimed 4x improvement in prompt prefill.
Exciting! Eagerly awaiting the benchmarks and comparisons then. Lets hope "4x improvement" had a good enough baseline so 4x actually ends up useful in practice compared to the current hardware they offer.
> 50% higher memory bandwidth
Seems this lands on ~1.2 TB/s if what Apple claims is correct. For reference, RTX Pro 6000 does 1.8 TB/s, so seems Apple is indeed getting closer incrementally.
So you're right. If the $42K price tag didn't make you blink, the additional $2700 in tax, and the $2K to $3K for the work in your house are going to financial hiccups. But it means the cost to start is $50K, not just the price tag.
Depending on your use case, you might prefer native FP4 and FP6 low-precision support and 5th-generation Tensor Cores rather than what Hopper offers.
I think for training Hopper makes sense as it's generally a bit cheaper and the difference isn't that big, but for inference the difference widens a bunch makes a lot more sense to go with Blackwell.
That sounds like a contradiction.
/J
Right, but the top option here is a pair of RTX Pro 6000s, hence 192 GB of VRAM in total. Should be enough for a 128GB model plus context, cache, etc.
By comparison, the 5x Mac cluster should be able to run a dense ~800GB-1TB model without a drastic slowdown.