ArtCraft Apps – open-source Adobe compatible suite written in Rust(getartcraft.com) |
ArtCraft Apps – open-source Adobe compatible suite written in Rust(getartcraft.com) |
> Software is over. But for real. I just one-shotted Photoshop. The whole thing.
You're telling me it's not the entirety of photoshop?
I'm not sure if it really makes sense to copy the UI and visual language of the source that verbatim (and I believe that Adobe will rightfully retaliate on specifically that), but for the time being, that's neat.
I bet the industry didn't expect that their IP laundering tools would eventually launder their own IP.
Just curious, because I've worked within design/film etc. for years.
I did open the PhotoCraft and loaded a few of my simpler layout projects. And literally nothing works.
Let's see:
1. Tried to select text, like the selector is off from the cursor.
2. Tried to edit text, takes like 3 seconds to drag the slider for size, nothing happens (text doesn't change size).
3. Absolutely everything is insanely laggy: selecting, switching, etc.
4. Can't seem to expand/collapse folders.
5. Everything shows shortcut keys - shortcut keys don't do anything.
6. Tried to move something, it kind of got frozen for a while. Eventually disappeared I think?
7. Clicked something and it auto selected a side panel (don't know why), hid the other panel, can't stretch, collapse the panels or get it back...
This is actual joke software, I'm confused why you are impressed?
Now here we see a fully blown suite which is already alarming for basic testability.
Also, we had several apps targeting directly at Adobe in the past.
* Blackmagic DaVinci is the biggest, and it also bought several companies to start fusing a one-stop solution.
* Affinity also started with single app that got attention before being swallowed into Canva.
Leaving compatibility and ui-workflow (which is important to existing users), It's much more sane to start and focus on a single app instead of a fully blown package.
From Adobe/Creative Cloud users, I do know Acrobat Pro is one of the problematic apps they have in terms (it freezes, guess a lot of legacy code, etc). And yet, even where there is some competition on PDF editors, Acrobat is still strong also due to UX and features.
I heard from another Photoshop clone that they spent almost a year to polish the software, using AI nonetheless. The hardest part they told me is the getting the color management part right.
That for one app. A full suit with a “written in Rust” tag sounds today almost like a clickbait.
A house of mirrors.
I think this project is interesting, but it's more a wait and see what happens kind of thing.
Every Crafting App is written from scratch in Rust and held to the same rules."
Yes. We are numb to AI (slop). Maybe if this project is still being developed in a year people might take it seriously.
Overall, looks like a cool project. Looking forward to the *Craft repos on github gaining traction
I think the same thing about the endless proliferation of Web-dev frameworks. Why bother? Just have AI write it in native JS or WebAssembly and be done with it.
The Adobe apps are 100% open source, desktop, MIT, no telemetry.
Personally, I switched to open-source alternatives way back in the late 1900s, and they've only continued to improve ever since. Adobe has been lagging behind for over a quarter of a century, in the ways which matter to me, and they keep getting farther behind as they turn to worse and worse methods of extorting money from people.
YMMV, of course.
I can get behind almost anything which reduces lock-in for Adobe's remaining customers, but from what I see in other comments, this probably ain't it. It seems very vibey and buggy. But maybe after more work is put in, it could be good. It looks like it wasn't supposed to go public yet, and they're aware that it's not ready yet.
It’s not a simple port, is it? The iPad apps have significantly different UI and a more iPadOS-ish UX, and their release has always lagged (though, ironically, Affinity started out as an iPad project within Serif; the hardware wasn’t ready so they pivoted to the Mac, but things like canvas rotation were still tested first on the iPad for feasibility)
Absolutely not.
Affinity just released an update [1] that delivered features like the Blend Tool that users have wanted for years. Cost: $0.
In addition to MCP support, users can now automate the Affinity suite using JavaScript [2].
[1]: https://www.affinity.studio/help/release-notes/
[2]: https://www.affinity.studio/help/scripting-in-affinity/
Nope. I just downloaded and installed PhotoCraft [1] and launched it. No sign-up, dialog boxes, licensing agreement.
The installer for LightCraft [2] isn't ready yet; building it from source took about 5 minutes.
Adobe to $120 price target at least, could be even lower.
These are still super early alpha. All MIT/Apache licensed. No telemetry.
I'm going to try to drive these to 100% parity but it's going to take a minute. And I'll need lots of help. (Anyone want to join me? I'll pay stipends and bug bounties.)
I'm going to do Microsoft Office, AutoCAD, and Solidworks too. Probably a lot of stuff to collapse.
It's not just SaaSocalypse. Everything can be open source multiplatform Rust now.
Party like it's 1999 and the Internet / tech scene belongs to us again. We can literally deenshittify the world without breaking a sweat.
As seen on the main Artcraft repo. There's other tools that are MIT-licensed, although given that people are noting that this is AI-created the notion of copyright on this is suspect to begin with. Remember kids: all AI slop is born public domain because machines don't have a soul for the purpose of copyright law. And probably also the 13th amendment. Don't upload your brain, kids.
Anyway, let me get up on my soapbox and talk about these "have your cake and eat it too" licenses, that try to be source-available while privileging one particular vendor as the Blessed Owner with special monetization powers. To put it shortly, this doesn't work, because it mixes all the bad parts of FOSS with all the bad parts of proprietary software.
The business model of proprietary software does not work with even source-available terms. Proprietary software is a game of becoming essential to your customers and then taking them for everything they've got. All the successful proprietary companies are, effectively, selling legacy software that was useful to a group of companies a long time ago, but is now so deeply integrated into their IT systems they don't even know they have it until the licensing police show up. "You can use it for free but can't sell it" is anathema to this: it is specifically the "use" part that you're worried about.
Likewise, being able to modify the software - even only for internal uses - means that the proprietary owner has to compete against their own customers for ongoing payments and revenue. Again, if you've dug your talons into a big org to the point where you're indispensable, you don't want your customers making their own forks of your code. You want them paying $$$$/mo for enterprise support.
What FOSS is doing is basically promising to never do these things. If your goal is to make money, then adopting FOSS is like a cat going vegan. And the half-measure source-available licenses don't help, because you wind up conceding all the things that make you money just so you can claim ownership over things most people weren't interested in.
also, from their CLAUDE.md:
> Clean-room. Never read, disassemble or copy anything inside the Illustrator bundle (names/listings only). Never copy Adobe icons, artwork, presets or wording beyond feature names. Behaviour comes from public docs and black-box observation of the running app with synthetic documents only (screenshots by window id, stored under plan/illustrator/screenshots/, never committed). Never copy GPL/AGPL code (Inkscape, lib2geom…).
There is no such thing as clean-room vibe coding. Every line of FOSS code has been trained on. If you use any AI coding model, you are generating code that is going to be similar to copylefted code. There is no "MIT/Apache only" model out there you can use.
Also, no, switching to GPL doesn't help. Actually, it is my opinion that you cannot meaningfully comply with GPL while vibe-coding, because you have changed the definition of "corresponding source code" from a bunch of .rs files to a number of prompts being handed off to a cloud model. Remember: according to GPL, the source code is not "the thing you put into the compiler", it's "the thing the developers prefer to edit to alter the program". Otherwise, you could say "the source code is this uncommented ASM listing" and sidestep the GPL entirely. What we're doing with AI is the same idea, except instead of going down one level of abstraction, we're going up one.
If this is about the desktop apps and not the website, I'd love it if you could file an issue. We're going to work through everything.
Nobody is beating Adobe with "claude create for me a clone of the adobe suite". Someone that knows what they are doing need to be behind it. It might be you but it would take years of experience if you don't have them yet.
Photoshop has a lot of bad things going for it, but it’s still the only software that does what it does, and I’ve tried all the competitors that have popped up over the years.
What about their service?
But then I remembered that the flight had free Internet. So I log in... only to have these morons try to TEXT my phone a 2FA code. On the plane.
After I got back I checked with our IT department and found that our Adobe licenses are paid up for TWO YEARS.
Despicable.
Network effects like presets and plugin ecosystem, tutorials and books, team knowledge (you can ask a colleague how to do things).
Switching costs like lightroom catalogues, learning new programs, if it works why fixit.
And the price is not that high if your company pays for it. Open stuff would have to be much better and Adobe much more buggy before most people consider switching.
I’ve tried getting rid of creative suite for years, but when it comes down to it no competitor has actually come close.
I see the same argument all the time about Windows vs Linux. Linux lacks this, Linux lacks that, etc... but somehow, people fail to notice that Windows lacks a whole lot of important things that Linux has. Because a Windows user won't be aware of what they're missing. But for me, coming from a Linux background, Windows is missing so much I would view it as unusable.
Changing from one to the other is painful, because of the differences. It's not a drop-in replacement you can keep using exactly the same way. But that doesn't make either one better or worse. They're different, and that's a good thing. But different requires learning, and learning is hard.
Anyway, you're correct that $FreeProgram isn't a drop-in replacement for $ProprietaryProgram. But that's not a valid argument on the relative value of the two programs.
But its a lot harder if you want to maintain at least some level of quality. For example, your PDF export exports texts as paths and correct PDF encoding and font subsetting took months of trial and error (I maintain the printpdf crate).
So you have to actually use your apps, test extensively, etc. - don‘t underestimate the effort required for QA and testing.
I'm sick of Gimp, Krita, and Inkscape being the best Linux and open source have to offer.
Don't let that discourage you, though! A fast, local, fully-featured 3D parametric CAD program that takes advantage of modern hardware parallelism that can be extended/scripted is just basically one of the holy grails of software and even exploratory efforts might uncover some great paths forward to making that a reality!
With photoshop, illustrator, etc., there’s a fair amount of code out there. No LLM has however ever seen the source code —- or I suspect even much detailed discussion —- of a bRep kernel better than Opencascade, but with the right people to decide what maths to work on, maybe there is progress to be made. This knowledge is held by few people, many of whom will now have retired!
we remember different 1999s. i remember everyone pirating software made by large companies at that moment in time
You may want those in new high-performance infinite precision: https://github.com/timschmidt/hyperreal
Exact curves: https://github.com/timschmidt/hypercurve
Meshes: https://github.com/timschmidt/hypermesh
and more in the ~22 crate stack.
I'll be pinging you about this in the future
Someone will make up new laws just to get rid of that specifically and that will likely even work, if one guy is behind _all_ the recreations.
Maybe you could somehow distribute that, so that it's at least a game of whack-a-mole for the defender.
__
This btw is made orders of magnitude worse by the fact that you are trying to make money off those recreations, and you're doing so right now.
So the whole "I was just a foss & rust absolutist" defense doesn't count.
So.. eh. Idk man. Icarus with a claude jetpack I guess.
___
Also, keep in mind the sums of money that are involved in what you're attacking there.
Those are software companies with leverage of a small country. They can also simply just disappear you if you fuck with them too much. Which is not hyperbole.
That's so much money, it bends the rules of reality you think you have outsmarted.
If it's not "them" as an entity, it will be "that one manager that is scared of their personal bonus" that will personally go through any means necessary to make it stop.
Remember the ebay stalking scandal?
Remember the Boeing whistleblower?
These are not monetized in any way. They don't have telemetry, paywalls, or anything.
If you're looking at the other software we've built, that's a source available (soon to be open source) Higgsfield and OpenRouter/FAL.
I look forward to the beta and beyond!
https://www.reddit.com/r/SaaS/comments/1wwnhbt/ive_created_o...
https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenAI/comments/1wxmunv/ive_created...
https://www.reddit.com/r/GeminiAI/comments/1wwo52q/ive_creat...
https://www.reddit.com/r/aiwars/comments/1wvz0lj/100_open_so...
https://www.reddit.com/r/vibecoding/comments/1wvz4ua/100_ope...
> We have estimates for feature parity checked into the roadmap files of each app. We should be in "Beta" stage / ~100% parity within a month.
> We're going to reach 100% parity within a month.
Can't wait to check back in a month!
and now it's not ready for HN? what happened in the last 24 hours for that to be the case?
i look forward to a beta release of all 7 softwares with 99% feature parity november 5th.
They're not trying to "beat Adobe" and they certainly didn't wake up one day and tell Claude to make the entire Adobe suite of products.
However, in the not-too-distant future, it'll be the norm to pay $0 for apps and buy AI tokens when needed. That's what Canva did with Affinity--you pay $0 for Affinity Photo, Designer and Publisher that are just as good and in some cases better than Adobe's apps.
Access to advanced features and AI requires a subscription.
I checked GitHub and it has only two committers and four weeks effort: One person +550k lines, another +3k lines.
Yes, I know what you're going to say that it's technically something different, but, really, man.
The people you're messing with cannot simply be outsmarted on technicalities in the way a "HN contrarian" (as per your bio) would win a debate on this platform.
A big of the attraction of re-building this kind of foundational software isn't the base capability (commercial 3D CAD has barely even seen incremental improvements for more than a decade, in large part because it's just pretty well solved in the existing programs), but that a modern kernel would be a major step forward for unblocking implementation of some of those other capabilities.
Yeah, that's not going to happen.
The backlash against Adobe would be intense from users and the industry for attempting to break JPEG's interoperability as an ISO standard.
Let’s not get carried away here; Adobe has competed against hundreds of image editors ever since Photoshop 1.0 was released in 1990 and haven’t messed with the interoperability of their file formats.
Just to be clear, nobody at Adobe is losing sleep over a suite of free apps that are knock-offs of Lightroom, Photoshop, Illustrator, and InDesign, etc. for now.
Now that being said, Adobe has plenty of non-standardized file formats that they absolutely could do AutoCAD-style shenanigans with.
Disagree.
There's a difference between "vibe coding" and incorporating AI into a software development process. Hobbyists vibe code for shits and giggles on the weekends.
These guys incorporated dozens of pre-existing Rust packages into their codebases, made sure the apps ran on macOS, Windows and Linux and in modern web browsers. That’s not vibe coding.
Did they use coding agents to assist them? Of course! No different than teams at Microsoft, Google, Adobe, etc. Re-creating Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, InDesign, etc. from scratch in Rust is a huge undertaking; one that would have been impossible just a couple of years ago.
Serious publishers don't want a photo editing program in their UI.
That's not how it works; when you're in the Layout Studio, that's your UI and nothing else.
I think the confusion is that some tools appear in the Layout Studio and the Pixel Studio because they make sense in those contexts.
Affinity lets you customize each Studio and the overall UI to your heart's content [1].
[1]: https://www.affinity.studio/help/workspace-about-studios/#cu...
I have all 3 versions installed, but most of the time I reach for Affinity Photo V1 just because it will launch faster. If I need Designer, I reach for Affinity Designer V2.
Nothing has been enshittified, and indeed if you knew anything about Affinity, the fact that they chose that name, had a three pointed logo and a single shared file architecture, and the way they have talked about the integration in the suite, you would have predicted this for v3 whether or not Canva bought them. This integration was always going to happen.
I think you can do this project of yours without being dismissive of the work (and the merits of the work) done by real people over years.
Be careful of what you might damage by doing this.
Specially when the LLMs he is using to make this software were 100% trained and likely heavily influenced by the software he is shitting on.
Affinity works both similarly and differently and is now pretty popular.
It’s different but really not inferior to Photoshop, for example (better live filters, cross model curves, better layer blending), and it’s not inferior to InDesign or Illustrator, mostly. It does have a file format that allows all three to coexist (in fact it effectively always did).
They all have sufficient familiarity (the basics of the tools and layers are now pretty much a standard “medium” that most photo/painting apps implement, after all) but they have their own advantages. The integration between the three apps is way ahead.
I just don’t see why anyone would make open source apps that don’t move things forward (Krita and Inkscape do, in their own ways).
It’s also a pretty hollow demonstration of AI, ultimately, to use it to just clone ripoffs, but it does have a sort of fractal self-similarity I suppose.
I don’t think anyone is served well by pursuing blatant cloning in open source. But if this is the shoddy destiny of AI coding then I am at peace with it. People can use lazy knockoffs if they want.