We're hiring - but we probably won't pay you.(channelsource.org) |
We're hiring - but we probably won't pay you.(channelsource.org) |
I've run across some (otherwise very reasonable) gaming websites that periodically post big "we're hiring!" notices...and in the small print you see that there's no actual salary, employment agreement, etc. Really they're asking for volunteers, but they very consistently say they're "hiring."
[When I ask what's up with that, they're kinda defensive, saying "well, it's a video-game website, so you sometimes get free game copies....", but.... I dunno, it all seems kinda dodgy to me.]
It's the same as the american meaning. To hire is to obtain for payment - whether it is labor or machinery.
> Just Like We Haven't Paid Our Webmaster or Accountant!
> and even refuses to respond to phone calls and emails.
This is all very unprofessional.
I think there's a pretty good chance this webdesigner is going to see some blowback in his business after posting incendiary stuff like this.
Obviously not the smartest move this guy could have made. As someone who has been pretty brash with collection practices in the past with customers who refused to pay I do not mind saying this was plain dumb, the guy clearly could use some lessons in running a business the right way
You got many Mom and Pop operations like that who have technical skills but don't have a lick of business sense or business experience. It is ironically the main reason why so many Dotcom startups and Dotcom companies fail.
I figure they were in a hurry to add that link and so they rushed the job and botched the link back to their web site. Then maybe they were locked out of editing the web site because someone changed the password to the account they were using. I figure someone will erase their notice and nobody will know the difference. The only evidence will be this HN thread about it.
But seriously they need a lawyer to review their contract and find a way to collect on the money. Unless the client is filing bankruptcy (there is a cycle to it where a debtor can collect and cannot collect in the process of a bankruptcy but it is so complex only a lawyer can figure it out). Writing about it in public may even violate the contract in the first place if not some laws as well.
Don't hand over rights to use the work until they've paid. Assign copyright, don't do work for hire. etc. Have cancellation clauses that detail EXACTLY how the end of the relationship works. Get large amounts of the total payment in intermediary payments.
Also, call a lawyer, don't do this.
I would argue that even though they control the site that it may contravene at least a few laws, whether it's defacing a website - which they effectively did - or some kind of defamation - not because they are owed money per se, but they're clearly stating that if the company hires you then the company won't pay you, which is speculation at best.
Why would you want to deal with a curmudgeon?
[surely I can't be the only one that snickered when he saw that as the main item of the "webmaster's" page: http://www.alexlucastech.com/]
But I understand. Our justice system is priced out of reach for most people. (Although small claims court might be a good option for these guys, if the amount owed is small.)
I think that one possible solution would be to simply improve the quality, quantity, and fidelity of the complaint. Scan documents and post them. Take video of yourself talking about the problem, and post them too. This is certainly no substitute for a courtroom, and it doesn't avoid clearly fraudulent claims of abuse, but at least it gives the reading public enough information to make an informed decision.
Simply stating on a website that someone screwed you just doesn't cut it anymore.
edit: Texas has higher limits at $10000. I still think it's likely that their owed debts exceed 10k.
"If you would like to learn more about CHANNEL SOURCE, please visit our main website, www.channelsource.biz. This .org website is a companion website dedicated exclusively to team interactions."
Text links to http://channelsource.org/www.alexlucastech.com (404)
I have a brother-in-law who does work in California for 911 CAD systems as a federal contractor and his business is subcontracted out by a contractor that can't do the work but won the bid. Often he tells me this other company won't pay him, and then he cannot pay his employees and has to find the owner and ask him to write the check. Sometimes the owner writes the check but does not sign it, and he has to go back and get him to sign it. He says this thing happens all too often with contracts.
Now accountants and web administrators also are hired on contracts and sometimes they don't get paid either. In this case the web administrator had access to their web site and inserted that notice.
There was someone I knew called Michael David Crawford who was a software contractor and he would do programming gigs for designing firmware and other advanced programming. He wrote on a series of web sites about the places that didn't pay him like Manpower, Drobo and others, even posting email from managers to blogs and his web sites as proof. One manager and lawyer he posted about at Drobo had the diary/blog he wrote at Kuro5hin taken down with a cease and desist letter. He had posted a series of emails from them to prove what he was trying to say, and they censored him and threated to sue him over it. Sadly Michael went through a tough time, his wife divorced him, he couldn't find any contract work, could not collect on money owed to him on contracts for work he did, he started to go mad. He protested by disrupting Dotcom events at the Hacker Dojo and in Portland:
http://startupweekend.org/2012/04/30/not-even-bmob-threats-c...
http://www.reddit.com/r/michaeldavidcrawford/comments/ur825/...
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2012/04/startup...
I don't know why he did those things, he considers himself a hacktivist, and he has startup experience and even worked as a software consultant for Apple and a few other big names as well in his career. (Mac System 7.5.X he worked on, he said his name is in an easter egg in some of the versions)
I mean Michael was on CNN talking about the tax problem software consultants face, and about the Joe Stack incident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VhLV7jydPJ8 of course CNN buried the interview and Rick Sanchez was no longer at CNN, but someone captured it for Youtube. He spoke out against using violence or threats of violence during that interview. He mentioned that he would often get stiffed by the client in that interview. But after that he was marked by authorities and wasn't paid for his works and virtually blacklisted for speaking out. He even had his worked cited by startups http://www.bearcave.com/misl/misl_tech/venture_capital.html
From what I know he has been homeless and in and out of jail and a mental hospital. I lost contact with him before he did those things or accused of doing those things.
He is currently located here: http://www.slosheriff.org/whoisincustody/Detail.aspx?Booking...
You can tell he is a totally different person in the CNN interview, and sometime after that he was not paid for his contracts and they were terminated short-term, and then all these bad things happened to him, and before I know it he is protesting Startup events, and the like. I think he couldn't afford his medication because he was homeless and without work. He often said as a software contractor they would go without work and being stiffed by clients, but still owe the money to the IRS because it is income even if he isn't paid for it.
After he lost his contracts and couldn't collect on money owed him that he was stiffed on, his web sites got taken down, and then auctioned off, and they had the only evidence on them that could have cleared him and proven his mistreatment. I think some domain squatters got them because they were at the top of certain Google searches and they bought the domains for high traffic advertising.
The mystery is this isn't the first time he's been in that jail, he was in before and no charges listed, and 90 days later he was released, only to be rearrested over and over again and released, and then finally they got some charge of threatening with intent to terrorize or something. I have no idea why. I think it is a BS charge like they did with Aaron Swartz and others, but I am not 100% sure on that.
I thought I would cite his case as it is relevant to the topic as a worse case scenario that happens when one isn't paid for their contracted work.
..Not sure if any other employer can beat them lol
Edit: Ah! Thanks for the replies. I get it now. :)
The .biz site is cookie cutter bullshit full of buzzwords I wouldn't want to pay for it either but I applaud these guys screwing over their stingy boss anyways. Every web designer I've met has plenty of stories of not being paid or being asked to build a megasite for an insultingly low figure by cheapskate startups
Like posting pictures of Goatse and Lemon Party on the main page of their client's web site. It would drive away potential customers and ruin their reputation.
Do post what's the reaction when the company has a look at your page.
If I got this type of work from someone I'd probably tell them no thanks and stop returning their emails as well.
If you asked someone to build a three page "We're Hiring" site and got this, you'd "probably tell them no thanks and stop returning their emails". Why?
Their main .biz site looks fine to my eyes too, like thousands of other business websites settled on functional and simple - I'm sure all of this was built closely to spec. What am I missing here?
I knew Michael in college, and his problems were quite evident to those around him, even then. At the same time you just knew in your bones that he was a good person (better than most of of the people around him), and in possession of a keen and fierce intellect, besides.
It's such a waste of resources to keep someone like that locked up. He's a good man. He needs help and he needs love (and perhaps also medication). But he doesn't need to be in jail, and he doesn't need to have his name dragged through the public records like that.
I am glad I could inform you on his situation, maybe you can order him something in jail? I ordered a snack pack that contained Atomic Fireballs in them because that is one of his favorites.
Yes he shouldn't be in jail, he should be in a mental hospital and be given his medicine he was denied and be treated for his mental illness so he can recover.