Ask HN: How can I make an extra 30-50k a year?

75 points by jman1 13 years ago | 91 comments

Hi HN,

One of my goals this year is to increase my income by 30-50K. I am currently employed full time and am looking for guidance from the thoughtful and capable HN community on ways to do that. I can code and design. I have been part of a small team running a startup and have worn many hats on the technology and client facing sides. My biggest strength is to be able bridge business and technology. I can talk technology to non technical folks and talk business to technical folks.

Thanks for your help !!

patio11 13 years ago |

If you can design, code, and talk business goals with non-technical people, it is highly unlikely that the W-2 rate paid by your current day job is in the near ballpark of what you'd reasonably expect to achieve by going into consulting at an appreciable fraction of full-time. Quitting your job and hanging your shingle as a consultant-who-solves-business-problems-with-technology will trade a lot of the certainty of your biweekly paychecks for more occasional payments on invoices which would blow your mind.

If you add the constraint "I want to keep my day job", then I'd suggest negotiating with them (and, er, not mentioning that you're unwilling to leave them prior to having that conversation).

There are many people who have, in recent memory, made appreciable fractions of your goal numbers by taking one service offering which they'd be really good at as a technologist -- say, designing iPhone apps or what have you -- and wrapping that service into a teaching product. There are a variety of form factors: book, video course, in-person training event, online webinar, yadda yadda. This does not get less viable if you mix substantial business expertise into the offering or your promotion of it.

If you want to execute on that, I'd start building up a mailing list of people who have given you permission to talk to them about $BROAD_OUTLINE_OF_YOUR_TOPIC post-haste. Virtually no plan for building products gets worse if you have 100, 300, 500, etc people who are willing to hear from you about it.

orangethirty 13 years ago | |

Let me put your point in plain words:

Consulting currently pays a lot of money. You can make 6 figures without much hassles. Don't quit your job to start consulting without having a group of prospect to sell to. Build your prospects list first, by doing content marketing and networking in site like linkedin.

If you want to take the business route, you can make that amount of money by automating tasks and selling the software. What should you automate? Everything that has to do with lead capturing is worth its zeroes and ones in gold. Start there.

Anything else?

Yes! Start blogging. About your skills. About your projects. Get people reading about you. Even if you don't have an idea at the moment, people will gravitate towards you and give you good ideas.

Whatever you do, realize that this will take time. At the very least, two months of work. Worth it? You bet!

Good luck.

andyakb 13 years ago | | |

The original point was put quite simply and your "summary" has messages the original didn't. Just seems a weird way of adding your own opinion as when you start with "let me put _your_ point in plain words," you imply that you are still keeping the point the same, just rewording it, not editorializing.

msrpotus 13 years ago | | |

If you can, just meet with people. Sit down, talk about their problems, and how you can help them. Far more direct than blogging and hoping someone reads it.

jontas 13 years ago |

I used to do freelance web development on the side in addition to a full time job, and I pulled in the income numbers you're aiming for, but I must admit it was hell. There's little worse than coming home from a stressful 9 hour day at the office and realizing you need to work another 5 hours for a bitchy freelance client. Or telling your friends, no, once again, I can't come this weekend because I have to work.

If you can design and code then you've got more skills than I had (I am code only), so I'm sure with a little effort you could put together a decent side business. Just be prepared for the life sucking that comes along with working 100+ hours/week. But it isn't all bad, working for yourself, sometimes, provides its own satisfaction.

Eventually my freelance business grew so big I quit my full time job--that was always my goal and it is the reason I was willing to suffer so much at the beginning.

amalag 13 years ago | |

Probably the most common question. Where do you get clients?

I have two clients for some freelance and I do web application for them, earning me $19k over last 2 years ( plus $8k finishing in another month). They run their own businesses and they are very happy with them, but I am not sure how to expand past them. I don't think I will ever do it full time, but if I can choose the right gigs, could definitely be worth it.

jontas 13 years ago | | |

I got all of my clients via word of mouth. It sounds weird on the surface, but honestly, as a web developer, I didn't even have my own website. I can't think of a single client who didn't approach me first.

I guess it is a bit of a chicken and egg problem, but there's always a way to get those first couple clients. Reach out to your personal network, everyone knows someone who needs a website. Price the first couple of jobs cheap, do good work, and your name is bound to get passed around. Also after you build your first dozen sites, many of them are bound to require maintenance--eventually you end up with fairly consistant work even if you aren't closing new deals all the time.

After a year or so I had enough work to support me full time, and after 2 years I had enough work to bring on a second person.

drakaal 13 years ago |

You didn't state your current salary. If you are making $40k and want to make an extra $30-50k the answer will be very different than if you make $250k and want to make an extra $30k.

My suggestion. Hire a maid. That will save you 8 hours a week. She (yes I'm sexist it will be a she) will make $15 an hour and work 4 hours saving you 8-12 hours. You can work at Radio Shack and earn $22 an hour. Working 12 hours a week that will make you $13k. Use your discount to buy things you were going to buy anyway save another $4k a year. That is 17K and you will have only spent $3k to get that. Netting you $14k for the year. If you want $30k double your hours to 20 hours a week.

bhousel 13 years ago | |

Who spends 8-12 hours a week on housework, and $4000 a year at Radio Shack? I'm running through ridiculous scenarios in my mind to hit those numbers. I think I've just been nerd-sniped.

paulrademacher 13 years ago | |

Weird, I did this exact thing, down to the numbers, but I was young and irresponsible with my money and just wound up buying $15K worth of Radio Shack batteries that I haven't been able to unload.

joonix 13 years ago | |

This was an odd post. And nobody at any radioshack makes anywhere near $22 an hour.

chc 13 years ago | | |

The manager doesn't make anywhere near $22 an hour? Really? That's lousy even by retail standards.

illuminate 13 years ago | |

"You can work at Radio Shack and earn $22 an hour"

You can't seriously expect persons to believe any of this is grounded in reality, can you? Retail wage earners do not make 22 dollars an hour, no matter how many terrible monster cables and extended warranties they shill.

drakaal 13 years ago | | |

I made $19 an hour at Radio Shack in 1997. I would hope things have adjusted since, but My exGF made $26 an hour working at Ann Taylor. You can totally make $40k a year equivalent in retail.

tsotha 13 years ago |

How do you look in lingerie?

On a serious note, never stop looking for the next job. If it comes up, move. It'll add more stress to your life, but not only will you learn more about software, you'll learn more about how organizations work and what you can do to maximize your perceived value to the company.

cadalac 13 years ago | |

Thanks, you just made me spill my drink.

kyllo 13 years ago |

What is your full-time job? How long have you been there? Does your boss trust you? Is there a way you can contribute more value to your current employer? For example, is there an important but difficult project waiting for someone to step up and take ownership? Or do you have an idea for a side project that if you successfully implemented it, would improve your efficiency or even that of your entire team?

Promotions and raises are more likely to come when you "step up to the plate" and show how much value you can create. And then you can simply ask to be rewarded accordingly. If you really did your boss a solid, and he's a good manager, he will recognize it and might even give you a pay bump without you even having to ask.

If your boss shoots down your ideas, or lets you implement them and then doesn't recognize them or takes all the credit for them and rewards you with nothing, then update your resume and move to another place where your value may be appreciated.

aaron695 13 years ago |

I would say not having a goal of "increase my income by 30-50K" might be a start.

Moneys not everything, it probably shouldn't be a goal.

Instead by focusing on making yourself happy you'll be better off and probably be earning more.

Just a theory.

zbruhnke 13 years ago |

You could start by putting your email address in your profile ;)

ja27 13 years ago |

Mobile apps. Pick a few niches and research them and the apps. Slam out some MVP apps and see what sells. Go all-in on a bigger app in the best niche, even if you have to pay a developer and/or designer. Bonus: when you stop working on it, the app(s) keep making money for quite some time.

tunesmith 13 years ago |

Subcontracting could get you part of the way there. If we assume you keep your full-time job and have a restricted number of extra hours to devote, you could probably handle a mid-size project where you're managing/overseeing/architecting while subcontracting to 1-2 other developers that you trust. Depending on your margin, you could hit that range. I'd recommend sticking to local developers in your circle that you can work well with, as opposed to off-shoring, which has a higher margin but a higher probability of backfiring. It'd work well for your skillset since a lot of freelance developers don't tend to market themselves aggressively, and are happy to be subcontracted to.

I did this for a few of my own freelance projects - it worked ok, although I also found that as a solo freelancer, the clients that were interested in hiring me tended to have budget restrictions that made them nervous to commit to sums of money that necessitated subcontractors. So it was an occasional thing for me.

poppysan 13 years ago |

Have you thought about possibly using your communications skills for profit via workshops? You could teach a business boot camp for techies that covers some common issues and pitfalls that tech folk may encounter on the road to developing a successful business.

DotSauce 13 years ago |

I would suggest domain name and website flipping, particularly to someone with your skill-set.

http://www.quicksprout.com/2013/03/18/the-neil-patel-guide-t... http://www.dotsauce.com/2010/10/21/how-to-sell-domain-names/

Also, if you invest in generic term domains for the 2013-2014 GTLD landrush for quality extensions like .blog, .cars, etc. you stand to make a quick profit during the GTLD launches. Please do your research first, of course, I wouldn't want you to lose money.

tga 13 years ago | |

Please don't listen to this guy and leave domains alone.

In my books, professional domain squatters are scum and the rules that unfortunately allow this should be changed. You should not be allowed to squat like that on a public resource that is scarce and getting scarcer, this is a net loss to everyone else (except maybe the registrars, which are in on it).

rdouble 13 years ago |

On other websites, many commenters seem to have a sister who is unemployed, but makes $87/hr on the computer - up to $12345 per month, in just a few hours. Perhaps you could look into one of these schemes.

capex 13 years ago |

"I can talk technology to non technical folks and talk business to technical folks." This sounds like you haven't chosen your base yet.

lhnz 13 years ago | |

No, he's describing consultancy.

nym 13 years ago |

Buy bitcoin while everyone else is selling ;-)

vecinu 13 years ago | |

Please don't do this. This is the worst advice here.

illuminate 13 years ago | | |

It's great advice, but mostly for Nym's speculative hobby.

heliodor 13 years ago |

Teach courses. Udemy, Skillshare, etc. If you're in a big city, see if the co-working spaces also offer classes, then you can go teach there.

You may not realize it, but relative to ten years ago, you know a lot more, so put that knowledge in an ebook or course and sell it to people ten years younger than you.

Build mobile or web apps.

switch33 13 years ago |

I'm surprised no one mentioned investing. You can make decent money from investing if you have the time to do the research.

And an understanding of how accounting/finance is better than being to do all the math since many of the stock information websites help you out with any kind of information you want to know.

Also using programming you can grab data from sites using Yahoo API or other APIs or simply webscraping(if they allow it) and produce your own tests on market information to prune information for resulting trades.

darkxanthos 13 years ago |

1. Job hop 2. Contracting 3. Consult 4. Kickstarter for something ??

newman314 13 years ago | |

Profit

fab101 13 years ago |

(1) ebook : business 101 for programmers, (2) a micro start-up, (3) ebook: pickup something new (a hobby) and blog about it and work hard to make the blog sucessful

inovator 13 years ago | |

and get stuck in endless cycle of learning and buying more ebooks

ericb 13 years ago |

Job hop to a larger company and get a more senior title.

flipper 13 years ago |

I think OP you are on the right track trying to leverage your skills in one area by applying them to another.

I'm in the process of transitioning from IT to Law. This obviously takes longer than a year and it's certainly not for everyone. However I expect to be able to use my technical background (though not expertise per se) in legal work.

consultutah 13 years ago |

Night manager at McDonalds.

shawnphoffman 13 years ago | |

Depending on your geographic location, this could be a lot of fun and really open your perspective. I've considered moonlighting as something similar to this (minus all the American Beauty connotations).

bjc 13 years ago |

write a HFT bitcoin bot

t0 13 years ago | |

The exchanges charge 0.5% per trade. This isn't feasible once you look at the numbers.

aianus 13 years ago | | |

Why wouldn't it work if the spread was high enough?

cianclarke 13 years ago |

1) Think of a SaaS Product 2) Build SaaS Product 3) ??? 4) 30-50k/yr

dylanhassinger 13 years ago |

http://fourhourworkweek.com

http://lifestylebusinesspodcast.com

http://startupbook.net

michaelbuddy 13 years ago | |

oh that's your answer to everything. ;)

klint 13 years ago |

Find paid speaking gigs.

fleitz 13 years ago |

Start by asking for a raise, a 15 minute conversation can usually net you a decent chunk of change.

After you get your raise phone some recruiters, ask for more from the new company.

If you get a raise and another offer you've probably got your 30k.

pash 13 years ago | |

This is the easiest and most foolproof option. But reverse fleitz's chronology: first get another offer, then go talk to your boss.

Edit—To imsofuture's point below: Yes, come to your employer with another offer that you would actually take, but with a real preference to stay (otherwise, just go). Ask for a raise, and if the discussion doesn't go anywhere, describe the decision you face between more money elsewhere and a preference to stay if the money were not a differentiator.

This is not extortion, and a reasonable employer will not treat it as such. It is the way you find out what you're worth and get paid commensurately. Changing jobs is not the only way to get a raise, and it's certainly not the best way—for you or for your employer.

imsofuture 13 years ago | | |

Don't do this. Well, do this, but don't use your offer as a negotiating chip -- use it as a backup plan if you don't get a raise.

You will be the first up against the wall if you accept a counter offer to stay.

jamesfordiv 13 years ago | | |

Check out the good book "Getting Past No" (the follow-up to "Getting to Yes") - this is called having your BATNA - Best Alternative to Negotiated Agreement and will help your position even if you don't have to bring it up, just having it in your mind could boost your confidence and help you ask for what you want

heliodor 13 years ago | |

Fleitz' point is that switching jobs usually gets you a raise. Most people don't know how to avoid the "what is your current salary?" question, so the raise they get by switching jobs is pegged to their previous salary. Thus, get a raise first, then go fishing for another job. His point was not to get two raises from your current job!

rhizome 13 years ago | | |

Or just lie in response to the question.

argonaut 13 years ago | |

Agreed with pash. You make it seem like the OP should ask for a raise, get it, then ask for another raise after getting more offers. No employer will look favorably upon asking for two raises in quick succession.

fleitz 13 years ago | | |

The first raise is leverage for the exit. If you have to get an offer before you can get a raise you should just take the offer.

taproot 13 years ago | | |

I don't think he was saying use the counter offer as a raise, I think he was saying use the first raise to leverage a higher offer from a perspective new employer.

On 50k, ask for raise, now on 65k. Ask new employer to beat current salary, offer of 80k.

Without the first raise you don't get to leverage a higher salary at the new job for the 30-50k op needs. And good luck getting 30k raise at the same job, that just doesn't happen.