3D Printer for less than $400(kickstarter.com) |
3D Printer for less than $400(kickstarter.com) |
I've used 6 types of 3D printers. (Extrusion type, ABS or PLA) 3 from the 'consumer' grade and 3 from the 'pro' grade. Each of the consumer grade printers was an exercise in frustration.
All the printers had ugly, clunky software, but the pro printers would almost always make the thing I wanted.
The consumer printers I've tried take 3 or 4 failures to get 'set up' then a few more tries to find the bugs most of the way through a build, and eventually you might get one nice print. (After 4-6 hours)
The difficulty of getting a good print scales dramatically with the initial footprint, and not as much with height.
I have no intention of actually buying a printer until I've seen one work that I can afford. I can't manage the cost of most pro machines, but I can't accept the headache of 'consumer' printers today.
I'm glad 3D printing is taking off, but I think we've reached an inflection point where we need to go from possible to easy.
Does the market need a cheaper printer, or a better one?
This is not the better printer you are looking for, but it is helping to bring about that possibility.
And, minor nitpick:
All the printers had ugly, clunky software
Isn't that the point of crowd funding? Commenters on Hacker News don't decide what the market needs, but rather the market itself does.
Though, $250 was just too good to be true, so I went against instinct and bought one anyway. :D
For machine price, it's a race to the bottom. These are actually easier to manufacture than ink jets, so I can easily see $100 machines.
Hardware -> $0 as software is the real differentiator for simple 3DP. Then, on the top-end, there's Objet with ~$300K for a multi-material machine.
>Does the market need a cheaper printer, or a better one?
Yes. Some are in the market for a cheaper printer as demonstrated by the popularity of this kickstarter. Some are in the market for a better one. There is plenty of room for both.
It kind of reminds me of the Sinclair ZX Spectrum, i.e. don't expect too much (!).
Existing sub $400 printers[see below] havent shipped in mass quantities yet (well, besides the printrbot jr). Whoever gets it right first will become the market leader for entry level printers.
If these guys ship all their preorders I'll buy one from them. Until then, based on the research i've done, im planning on buying a printrbot jr to build the parts for deltabot like this: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:34146
Also, it is a little disingenuous for them to compare it to the makerbot replitor which has ~4x the build volume[1].
================================
Makibox: $200-400 + shipping from asia (has only shipped a few beta units)
Printrbot simple: $299 + s/h
http://printrbot.com/shop/printrbot-simple-beta/
Printrbot Jr: $399 + s/h
http://printrbot.com/shop/printrbot-jr/
================================
[1]: Build area (28.515.315.5)/ (151012) = 3.75
*Sorry I keep editing as I read more.
I had an post crowd funding order with them at some point in Q1 2013 and canceled it after not seeing much progress.
In my experience over the past two years, I've seen a number of projects that I funded where the project creators got bogged down after deciding to add features not originally specified at the time of funding, or continually "tweak" features that then result in delay after delay.
Looking through my backing history, some examples: - Honey Badger BBQ sauce: first run had bacterial problems. Had to send out new batch months later.
- Electricity | The Life Story of NIKOLA TESLA: "Oh, that perk you chose, is out of production, if you want something equivalent to it you'll have to send even more money". Nope.
- L8 SmartLight The SoundLess Speaker: "Ooops, we forgot about CE/FCC certification..."
- NeuroDreamer sleep mask: "Oops, battery problem." Funded July '12, finally shipping June '13?
- Ouya: ETA was March '13, now it's 3 months later and I finally have a tracking number.. we'll see.
- HexBright - funded July '11, delivered Feb. '13.
- IronBuds earbuds: Funded Aug. '11, sent "freebie" 3-piece earbuds Sep. '12, still haven't sent the 6-piece IronBuds originally advertised as rewards.
The projects that I've seen with the quickest "fulfillment" and so forth? Custom sets of playing cards.
My biggest complaint is the lack of a better way to browse projects. There's no way to say "Show me all the projects in the Technology category that have not yet completed funding or are not over yet". I have to open up two tabs, one for Technology Staff Picks, and one for More in Technology, and browse through both of those to see what's currently active.
GOOD! I dismiss other 3d printers immediately if they require some proprietary filament cartridge.
Nice to see the price dropping on 3d printers. :-)
[1] Example of a proprietary spool: http://cubify.com/cube/store_parts.aspx
It's a tad more sophisticated but they're trying to tie you in just as much.
I don't oppose if it's optional tho. It's a fair way to monetise. But if it's the only way to realistically operate your printer, then you've basically been duped.
My son wants to get a 3d printer for his birthday (and he wants to print a lot of airplanes with it) and I think it'd be a fun project to do together; to learn about computer controlled robots and programming with OpenSCAD. I've been reading the Printrbot forums and there's a bunch of work to do to get a good print, which is fun, but probably won't get the best prints. I'm not sure if I want a "consumer" or "hobbyist" printer given that it's going to be for education and fun...
EDIT: Though having read the page, this looks totally awesome, and if I could buy one right now then I probably would (instead of the printrbot).
With 3d printing being such a community focused arena, I think a focus on building a platform where the community could hook into and develop on is the way to go.
Haven't we learned anything from companies like Zynga? The user/community will always be able to produce content and add value faster and cheaper than an in-house team can.
Focus on the hardware, a robust platform to build onto, and some example software (maybe an iOS app + PC app). Empower the community.
If you are going to go the Amazon route and win on margin you need to look at the overhead costs you are going to incur in the form of technical debt supporting all of these services. Offload the cost to the community.
You know what? Call me when it can connect wirelessly to my computer, just as my 2D printer does right now.
IP questions as well as hardware behavior with spotty internet connection both jump up as potential issues in my mind. I would imagine this is for a standardized file preparation & troubleshooting service.
I wouldn't be interested in purchasing a 3D printer that I cannot directly feed G-code or STL's to without an internet connection or someone else's server getting involved.
[EDIT] I stand corrected, there is a 'backup' mode for printing without involving their servers or network connection.
Can I print without using the Pirate Cloud? I would like to make prints offline...
Yes you may. We have a backup WiFi printing mode similar to Octoprint which can be used in the event that zombies attack and all servers are destroyed.
That sounds to me like it can indeed be used offline.
Having to use a backup mode to print something without sending the file to the printer mfg. seems like needing to run a car in a backup mode to drive it without sending your location to the mfg.
I understand a few reasons for wanting to do this, but I don't think it likely to benefit the user.
* "I would order this..." * "I wouldn't be interested in purchasing..." * "I often buy things [from Kickstarter] in the hundreds..." * "I have no intention of actually buying a printer..."
This project for instance is just being advertised as a cheap alternative to things that already exist (claiming they don't would be a big stretch of the implementation details).
Kickstarter would lose most of its business by not allowing these kind of projects. People are more likely to bid in stuff they can easily figure out, rather than completely novel and seemingly far-fetched ideas.
So you can print a spoon and a bowl... great. But I actually already have one of those. If I ever have a need to print an endless supply of 1-inch square cubes, I guess 3D printing is just the ticket.
I'm not saying they need to be able to print out a Ferrari before I'm interested, but they need to be able to print something that is at least mildly useful or interesting.
A single use shot glass is probably ok. And, the ceramic prints you can get now are food grade. But any home made abs or pla will inevitably get you sick, because it can't be cleaned.
A necklace or ring that you have close to your body?
And are the metal ones also affected?
So 0.1mm in z, but what about x and y? Or does the above imply that they are all 0.1mm? Is that for the final product output or is that a nozzle head movement resolution?
"@Usman Glad you asked! What is the minimum printable detail? >> We can get the facial features on printed figurines. Do you have any specific test print in mind?
What is minimal wall thickness? >> We use a 0.4mm nozzle. We pjrint our single shell objects at this thickness (0.4mm)."
So, 0.4mm min. XY resolution.
"Height" is another matter, since some hobbyist printers sometimes intentionally "smear" a bit with the nozzle to smoothen flat layers.
That's the real art of 3D printing: bringing temperature, movement and filament drive into the perfect balance. Having a fine _drive_ resolution is important. But not only the resolution: You can drive stepper motors in various ways, so they will go "hard" or "soft" or even "bounce back" after movement a little bit. I've seen people doing hours, days and even weeks of tests after tests on hobbyist devices.
http://reprap.org/wiki/Prusa_Mendel_%28iteration_2%29
If I want to convert it into a 3d printer what would be my best/cheapest route? I.e. getting a printing head and software setup to drive it all?
I think your plan is all you'd need to do.
Seriously though, as someone very interested in 3D printing this is awfully tempting to back. The best option for me though seems still to be to use a service that will allow you to send your model to a third party that will print it on a professional 3D printer and send it back to you. Internet + professional grade printing + next day delivery = just about as good.
But yeah, a fair share of my 3d printer was printed by its same model. And this indeed is why good 3d printers like the Prusas, Mendels, etc are getting cheaper (this and cheaper filament prices). These are printers that provide good precision and use parts that are mostly cheap to produce or directly printable by a similar printer.
A good, small, cheap 3d printer may become just about compulsory for anyone who, say, does home repairs, does any kind of professional design work, does arts and crafts, and so forth.
power
mac
g4
cube
1.) They collect the money to do the project, attempt to do the project, and then fail for one of a hundred reasons and don't deliver a product.
2.) They collect the money to do the project, never actually try to do the project, and never deliver a product.
The first example is the nature of Kickstarter and embodies the risk that you take on if you choose to fund a project. Often times people feel like this is the same as being ripped off, but it's not.
The second example is just getting ripped off.
I would also find it hard to accept paying more than a few hundred for a Kickstarter project. Anything more seems like asking for trouble.
I've always wondered about variation in 'dot' and 'line' resolutions on extrusion-based set-ups, particularly relating to head movement (speed) & environmental conditions.
I've only had experience running (and servicing) an Objet Connex system that uses printing heads & UV curable resin. It used a stainless steel bar w/ a separate motor & cleaning system to 'flatten' each layer w/ each pass of the print head. I've always wondered if there were any FDA equivalents... I guess there is always the option to intentionally 'smear'.
The DIY 3D printing world is totally a trial-and-error art in my mind, as much of making seems to be. I can't imagine the hours that have been spent on fine tuning extrusion settings to produce good prints. I've always been spoiled by prepped systems, but even that lets me appreciate all the aspects that can go wrong.
Put it this way: quarters are filthy, but you don't eat off of them, so who cares?
However, treating a 3d printed spoon like any old metal spoon adds risk.
If the soap can go in, it can get out. If the soap can go in, it's going to kill the overwhelming majority of the microbes ensconced in whatever matrix the 3d printer material is built from.
This is a non-issue.
Now, if you want to talk about 3d printer material being toxic and leaching out of the material into your digestive system, well...I don't know enough to have an informed opinion.
FWIW, I know a fair amount about microbial adhesion to abiotic surfaces and I've worked with several people who are experts on microbial sensitivity to detergents.
Seriously, just use a metal fork. It's cheaper, durable, trivial to clean.
How many hours of effort is it worth to reuse a plastic fork? Should I spend hundreds on an autoclave to keep the 30 cents worth of plastic clean? I hope you would agree that's a stupid waste of time and money.
Yeah, leached toxins from the plastic are bad as well. if i were forced to bet, i'd say bacteria will get you before plastic toxins, because proper cleaning would be hard.