Ask HN: Is a hacker by nature pre-disposed towards Objectivism?

4 points by Allocator2008 17 years ago | 9 comments

I really am not trying to start a "fire fight" over Objectivism, but it occurs to me the individualist nature of the prototypical "hacker" is consistent with the values of Objectivism - self-reliance, work for one's own rational self-interest, don't "conform", etc.

(Full disclosure: I am a member of the Objectivist Party - http://www.objectivistparty.org)

Both from a personality standpoint of "individualism" and from a more general logical thinking/epistemological standpoint ("A is A") it seems to me that Objectivist values and beliefs are Hacker values and beliefs, or, at least, a "hacker" is statistically more likely than the average person to gravitate towards objectivism.

noonespecial 17 years ago |

Hackers tend to gravitate away from labels like objectivism. Once one subscribes to a label, it invites toeing the party line and switching off the brain. Hackers are even nervous, it seems, about accepting the label "hacker".

Rand, like Marx presented a cartoonish, plastic version of reality that seems compelling at first but when considered carefully fails the test of being practical (or possible) to implement. After you get some distance you start to see the bits of reality that have been fictionalized and over-emphasized. Like using a parametric EQ on your favorite song to learn the bass line.

Hackers will generally accept people of any political makeup so long as their reasoning is clear and systematic and their initial assumptions are reasonable. They won't accept beliefs based on dogma, anecdotes, or superstition. This is why the hacker community tends to be so diverse yet seems to have so much cohesion. (So much, in fact, that the near total lack of venomous idealogical bickering might fool the uninitiated into thinking everyone must just believe the same as them.)

SwellJoe 17 years ago |

Possibly, but most of us grow out of it by the time we reach our mid-twenties.

fsckMS 17 years ago |

Some parallels, Major differences. the Hacker mentality is something Ayn Rand would have never considered as incorruptible. Her view on white hats was never discussed even though she was around through it's birth and maturity. One of the great reinventions of the hacker community is 'you mess with me, me and my friends will screw you tenfold'. Selfgoverning society was often taken to it's basic animalistic extreme in Ayn Rand's perspectives, seeing it first hand would skew anyones faith in humanity. Hackers are more like mathematicians in not really caring about real-world applications of the knowledge sought, they are in it for the knowledge for knowledge sake.

noodle 17 years ago |

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't this at least a little bit of an oxymoron? doesn't rational selfishness and/or moral egoism preclude the notion of having a job that is to serve others, i.e., run for or hold governmental office? or at the very least ensure a government corrupt on some level?

alnayyir 17 years ago |

>Is a Hacker by nature pre-disposed towards Objectivism?

Short answer: No.

Long answer: No, because it involves working with a closed-system that depends on taking a number of premises for granted.

A hacker by nature wouldn't constrain themselves to the limitations and premises that an outsider presents to them.

The Randian abuse of rudimentary logic (A is A) and pretension to being holders of the one-true-faith has worn on my patience over time.

This is it. This is where I draw the line. You people have invaded every intellectual space that you have no place in nor any relevancy to. Now you come here, my sanctuary where there is nothing here of any relevance to Objectivism.

Take your (albeit pseudo-godless) cult of personality elsewhere. Hackers aren't interested.

What you're doing here is making a common psychological mistake.

Premise #1: I believe A.

Premise #2: I who believe A, am smart. (lol)

Premise #3: I have discovered smart people.

Leads to:

Conclusion: Being smart people, they must therefore be inclined to discover this one-true-faith I am endeared to!

The worst part about this, is I dislike a great many things that the Objectivists are also against, (Plato for example), but their fanaticism and near-AIPAC-esque-media-reach tests my patience.

Some political notes on Objectivists:

Mainline Objectivists are extremely pro-war and are in support of the US using its military force to promote US economic interests and hegemony.

Peikoff was strongly in favor of partisanship in the middle east and in backing Israel, even at the expense of human rights amongst other things.

A particularly astute LewRockwell post: (Mind you, LewRockwell has the people who should be supporters of the Ayn Rand Institute and yet aren't. Hrrrrm, maybe there's something to this...)

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig5/raimondo1.html

Libertarianism/Liberalism is something hackers are inclined to, but it behooves me not to insult the title to say that they would be inclined to your dandy little war orgy.

No thank you, and please don't advertise here again.

Edit: Here's just plain a good site demonstrating their myriad sins.

http://ariwatch.com/index.htm

maxharris 17 years ago | |

Obviously you don't like Objectivist political conclusions.

But Objectivism is not a political movement any more than the National Organization of Women or the National Rifle Association are philosophical movements. To properly attack Objectivist political conclusions, you have to go deeper and explain what you disagree with in the philosophy itself and why your philosophical stance is relevant to the political conclusion you take offense to.

alnayyir 17 years ago | | |

The philosophy is a broken set of assumptions.

ilkhd2 17 years ago |

I am not sure what you mean by hacker, but, for example Stallman I am sure not an Objectivist.

I myself have beliefs closer to ones of Chomsky than of Rand.

maxharris 17 years ago |

Yes, hackers are pre-disposed towards Objectivism.

Those that are not are: * unaware of Objectivism * or are unwilling to learn about it because of something they heard about from leftist cynics * or aren't really hackers in the first place