Ask HN: Should I stay in London or move to San Francisco?

7 points by yashodhan 12 years ago | 15 comments

Current designer and frontend dev here with a life changing decision to make in the next few days.

Current setup: Working for a fintech startup in London making £24k with no equity. Below market wage but I love my team and they're helping me work on my backend skills. Free training and a supportive environment.

Have a job offer for a consumer space photo sharing app in SF making $46k with 1.0% equity. Will be doing full stack dev - but unsure if I'll get the same level of support. But SF is def the place to be in our industry.

Moving isn't a hassle, but I'm torn between the two. I realize this is tough for others to comment on but any amount of insight that could help me make a decision would be greatly appreciated.

gxs 12 years ago |

To be honest with you, don't let money be the deciding factor, at least with the offers you've presented.

A worthy developer, even at a startup, should be making 70-80k a year easy + equity.

If I were you and really wanted to move, I would get a better offer then move out.

Otherwise, moving to SF at the moment is a hassle and at that income you're looking at living far away from the action anyway.

Granted, there are other things to consider, but consider this just a point of view from the money side.

That said, I find that when people post questions like this, they aren't generally looking for advice. Rather, it sounds like you really want to move to SF and are just looking for encouragement. If that's the case, you'll probably end up moving here anyway so just get it over with ASAP :)

yashodhan 12 years ago | |

Absolutely looking for advice, so thank you for your honesty.

I'm doing fine on my pittance living in the center of London. Perhaps it's due to my spending habits, but I hope this fact stays true if I move to SF. I am assured that in ~9 months, after the next round of funding, employee salaries will go up to market rate.

In an ideal world I would've stayed here in London and trained for another 6 months before moving to SF. My team has become my family, so a large part of my hesitation comes from detachment issues.

Perhaps you're right in that I should get it over with.

mathattack 12 years ago |

My 2 cents... You seem motivated enough to learn on your own. You also left off a key detail - where are you from, and what is the visa situation? 46K is not much to live off of in SF, and you could struggle to find a new job w/out a Visa.

All that said, you should consider some other things:

1) Do you want to live abroad? If you are young, this should dominate the decision. I am of the "Go abroad at all costs" camp, which means (if you're from London) take the job if you're in that camp too. If you're from the US, that's a case to stay in London.

2) Secondary ask what you want to do more, Fintech or Photo sharing. On the front end, your industry expertise will matter for the next job. Both are interesting areas.

3) Once you get into medium term thinking, how much you like your team matters an awful lot. It's not good short term (anyone can suck something up for 6-12 months) and not good long term (teams break up) but it's a good medium term consideration.

Good luck!

yashodhan 12 years ago | |

Thank you for a very honest breakdown. I have lived an equal amount of my life in both London and NJ, and am a citizen of US and UK, so visas aren't my problem. "Abroad" would be neither of the two, unfortunately.

I haven't worked in a consumer space startup before, so it may be wise to get some experience there.

It's pretty hard to gauge the culture of the new startup, as I've only met the CEO and videoconferenced with the rest of the team. While they're undeniably smart and focused, it remains to be seen if the support system and empathy will be on par.

Thanks for your thoughts and wishes.

mathattack 12 years ago | | |

Good luck. It's not a bad problem to have. Either way, the decision isn't irreversible. The same option may not be there in a year or two, but other options will be.

thesmileyone 12 years ago |

Move if you can afford it.

The UK is slowly going down the drain.

I am pretty incensed right now, they are equipping the UK with fibre broadband, and in a lot of cases the people who pay 0 income tax (and 0 every other tax) are getting 100mbit fibre, and the people in the same town are not getting fibre at all.

Reasoning: if you're stuck at home all day, jobless, you NEED 100mbit to stream tv: if you work, you don't. Only in the UK do the people who pay for everything get nothing whilst the people who don't pay for anything get everything free!

Move whilst you can and never look back!

HarryHirsch 12 years ago |

Consider the state of healthcare in the US, and consult someone knowledgeable about immigration regulations. Then think again.

yashodhan 12 years ago | |

I hold dual UK/US nationality, but the healthcare system does concern me. I hear changes are coming next month? Also, the SF startup will subsidize personal health plans.

zefi 12 years ago |

SF - I think you'll be more challenged out here. That's a good thing.

yashodhan 12 years ago | |

Interesting perspective. I suppose this makes it easier to hone one's skills?

switch007 12 years ago |

I've been thinking of moving to London. I'm glad you're enjoying it!

Do you really get by on £24k? Surely your housing is something like 40% of your salary if you're in zone 1, 2 or 3 (I'm assuming shared accommodation)? Plus what, £135 for a monthly travel pass? After bare minimum expenses (housing, utilities, food) there can't be much left?

edit:

yashodhan 12 years ago | |

My monthly take home amounts to about £1600. I live in a really nice shared flat on the edge of Zone 1/2 (Shoreditch) which costs £700 inc. utilities. I don't have a monthly pass, I top up my Oyster card with £20 every month or so. I use a combination of walking/biking/bus/tube to get to places.

So that's £880 left. I spend £100/month on my gym and I budget around £20/day for food. And about £30-50/week on drinks. So at worst I'm left with £440 every month as play money.

It's definitely enough for me, but then again my lifestyle is cheap. YMMV

ig1 12 years ago |

In either London or SF working for a funded (>Series A) startup you should be making more than that with designer & front-end skills.

But in any case you should think about what you want to do longer term and use that to make your decision.

GuiA 12 years ago |

46k is a shit salary in SF for a dev. In fact most visas require a base salary of 89$k or so as a software engineer.

And 1% equity is worth nothing.

If you want to move to SF, find a better offer. The one you have now is scammy.

sjg007 12 years ago |

SF with 1% on the full stack.