Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'

Barack Obama 'approved tapping Angela Merkel's phone 3 years ago'(telegraph.co.uk)

67 points by thex86 12 years ago | 32 comments

MikeTaylor 12 years ago |

It so desperately disappointing when a man who was elected largely for his understanding and respect for the constitution turns out to have been systematically dumping over it for the last few years. Like so many people, I expected better of Obama. He's not the man I thought he was.

msandford 12 years ago | |

Politicians are only true to their "roots" when they're in opposition. Once in power that all quickly goes out the window for "expedience" to "solve" the problems we currently face, and to not let the opposition get in a word edgewise.

Pay attention and you'll see that people from both parties do it consistently. Once you recognize that the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that you can't vote republican or democrat since either will betray you once they've gotten your vote and are in office.

S4M 12 years ago | | |

RMS for president, then?

mudetroit 12 years ago | |

FWIW, spying on the leader of a foreign nation is not in anyway dumping on the constitution. Not going to make commentary on other programs, those are a completely different matter, but spying on the leaders of other nations, allies or not, is not illegal nor should it be surprising.

MysticFear 12 years ago | | |

but spying on all Americans is dumping on the constitution.. as well as assassinating American citizens without any court order/trial (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/07/world/middleeast/07yemen.h...).

EDIT: another source http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57585798/who-were-the-4-...

Oculus 12 years ago | | |

I agree. Just like LanceH said, it's bad form to get caught, but in all honesty, this is the NSA's job. To gather forgien intelligence.

LanceH 12 years ago | | |

Getting caught is bad form.

phaus 12 years ago | |

Almost all politicians are carbon copies of one another. Until we vote out every single incumbent, and refuse to replace them with like-minded cronies, we can expect more of the same.

acqq 12 years ago |

And then one year later Obama, the Nobel prize for peace winner, gave the 'freedom medal' to Merkel praising her:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/06/07/remark...

"Told by the communists that she couldn’t pursue her love of languages, she excelled as a physicist. Asked to spy for the secret police, she refused."

spoiledtechie 12 years ago |

This just shows he is willing to lie to get his way. Again can't be trusted. He told Merkel that if he knew, he would have stopped it. That's the smoking gun. Proves he lied.

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/10/26/breaking-report-obama-lie...

jonknee 12 years ago | |

So long as both of the anonymously sourced stories are true... We don't know what Obama said and we don't know what Obama approved. For that matter, we don't know what the NSA actually did. It's safe to say that the NSA has been using their "required to fight terrorism" programs for non-terrorism spying, but beyond that everything is murky.

001sky 12 years ago | | |

The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose internal discussions

Thats from the NYT article explaining how his AG lied to the SCOTUS until the snowden leaks forced his hand. Seems like a bit of a pattern. Multiple reporters, multiple countries, multiple public figures. The common thread is blatant lying with a straight face? I dunno...

Bsharp 12 years ago |

The only good thing about the mess that is Obama's presidency is that people might finally learn that it generally doesn't matter who you elect, most presidents and politicians will act similarly. Politicians tell the country what they think >50% of them want to hear, then do whatever they want in office. While the things Obama and his administration (and Bush's!) have been doing are awful, I've enjoyed watching the public outcry. Hopefully it lasts.

return0 12 years ago | |

> whatever they want in office

are you sure it's what they want?

cmdkeen 12 years ago |

It isn't like the world didn't have any interest in German policy 3 years ago. Not when Angela Merkel was deciding whether to continue with bailing out Greece, create massive changes in EU fiscal policy or otherwise use Germany's new found place as the dominant EU player for other ends.

Quite why Germany's intelligence services let her use "an old Nokia" is beyond me anyway - it isn't just vulnerable to the NSA spying on her, it's vulnerable to all sorts of people, let alone states, spying on her.

All this talk on here of the need for digital security, random people talking of needing to deniably encrypt hard drives and not being able to trust Lavabit and the German authorities couldn't, or didn't try, to persuade their elected leader to use something more than an old phone.

Xylakant 12 years ago | |

The "old nokia" she used is actually a party (as in political party :) mobile. The reason for owning and using that mobile is simple: Most of the people Angela Merkel communicates with do not own a secure mobile that's encryption capable.

msandford 12 years ago |

This probably isn't the change his supporters had hoped for.

r3m6 12 years ago |

Most people expect and accept "007-style" spying for security purposes. But exactly what kind of threat are Germany, France and Brasil to the US? The general suspicion in these countries is that the main motive behind the overzealous NSA activities is state sponsored industrial espionage, which is completely unacceptable.

skj 12 years ago |

I didn't see mention of evidence.

r3m6 12 years ago |

If you want to understand why Merkel - and people from all political leanings - are so upset, just watch "The Lives of Others" - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3_iLOp6IhM

return0 12 years ago |

Wow, who could have thought she was a terrorist. Good disguise.

You know what would be funny? Tapping the Nobel Peace prize committee.

Kiro 12 years ago |

How can NSA tap something in Germany?

Xylakant 12 years ago | |

can as in "is technically and organizationally capable"? Fairly simple, especially when we're talking about the government and mobile phones. The US Embassy is about 200 meters from the Reichstag, just at the edge of the area where most of the government is located, just as the British Embassy. The Brits have a radome on the roof [1] and the Americans are reported to have hidden equipment behind fake walls [2][3]. Sufficiently sensitive equipment should give them a good reception on what most mobiles in that area do. Otherwise see the hack on belgacom: Root the provider and you have the mobile. Not all of that is legal, but I'm not certain under which law the Radome on the embassy is illegal.

[1] http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&where1=Wilhelmstra%C3%9Fe%2071... [2] Infrared picture of the American Embassy that claims to be an indicator http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/bild-930301-561363.htm... [3] http://www.duncancampbell.org/embassy-bugging

PhineasRex 12 years ago | |

That is what Germany wants to know.

vaadu 12 years ago |

Nixon reborn.

001sky 12 years ago |

wow. just yesterday they tried to pin it on Bush.

gjm11 12 years ago | |

The article makes, or at least reports, the following claims about the tapping of Merkel's phone: (1) it began in 2002 (when, yes, GWB was in office), (2) Obama was told about it in 2010, and (3) at that time he approved it and allowed it to continue.

If all this is true, then it seems to me it's perfectly fair to "pin it on Bush" and to blame Obama for the fact that it continued past 2010.

It also seems worth remarking (a) that actual evidence for the claims seems to be in short supply, and (b) that if they're correct it's pretty weird that Obama wasn't told until 2010 that the NSA was tapping the phone of the leader of a major foreign nation allied with the US.

rhizome 12 years ago | | |

Yes, "they both suck" is a reasonable conclusion.