Has YC made a solid argument for zero feedback policy?

4 points by jdrobins2000 12 years ago | 14 comments

"Unfortunately we can't give you individual feedback about your application. This page explains why:"

http://ycombinator.com/whynot.html

I have read and understand the reasons stated for not being able to offer feedback, and I understand that YC owes nothing to applicants. However, the explanation offered does not fully support the claim that it can't provide feedback to applicants.

The reason boils down to "there often is no reason". Which implies that sometimes there is a reason.

Similarly: "From that cutoff down to about the halfway point, the applications are pretty good." Which implies that fully half of applications are not that good, presumably for reasons which could be easily identified.

Feedback options remaining which wouldn't be precluded by the reasons stated include: 1. Your group was/was not in the "pretty good" top 50% of applications 2. Your group was rejected mainly because of ABC (or there was no clear reason/weakness, if that is the case)

I of course acknowledge it is the prerogative of YC to withhold feedback for any reasons they choose, and they have no obligation to share that publicly. But if they choose to make those reasons public, it is reasonable to expect them to contain sound logic.

We appreciate that the YC team is very busy. It seems that they have already done the heavy lifting of evaluating applicants, but perhaps distilling that into feedback would be a substantial effort. I can't make the judgement of whether it is in their best interest to give feedback when possible, but I suspect I am not alone in believing that any feedback would be beneficial and much appreciated. Unless there are reasons not stated, I hope YC will reconsider offering some form of feedback when possible.

praxeologist 12 years ago |

I'm sure that if you posted your app/site here, people could give you plenty of reasons. Ask yourself what you think the reasons are. What would you do to "kick your own ass"?

Technically, I am not buying the "there is no reason" either most of the time. It is probably any number of common reasons like red flags (filled with buzzwords and marketing speak, weak/iterative product, single founder with no history of success) or maybe it is just a bunch of more minor or subtle things. Maybe they don't think there is a huge future for X even though it is popular now; they think Y is on the way up or there are just 10 other applications doing something like X which are more compelling or have a team with a better pedigree than you.

Maybe sometimes it is fairly easy to give a reason, but then it will be expected for everyone and they get a lot of applications now. It would be hugely time consuming to give a detailed evaluation and maybe sometimes too it would be giving away some secrets they don't want to.

jdrobins2000 12 years ago | |

All valid points, many of which I have considered as well. It would just be more satisfying to hear it definitively from YC.

The same goes for specific feedback. I can think of many reasons they might have rejected us. However, I would like to know how they see it, and perhaps if they have new insights. I also happen to think we have a solid team, with a great idea/design/app, and would like to know if they strongly disagree or if we just didn't quite make the cut.

Perhaps at some point I will post my app here. Perhaps if the YC partners tell me it's a shitty idea that will never work, I might be more convinced that I don't have to be concerned about anyone stealing my idea.

swatkat7 12 years ago |

I second your thoughts. Our application was turned down and I got the same email in my inbox this morning. In my case, I had a different reaction to the rejection though, in that, I decided to take on the challenge head-on. But then again, now that I think of it, I'm deeply devastated that I couldn't get any feedback from them.

I'm a very curious person and have been all my life. Part of what makes me unique is my ability to go to great, if not seemingly impossible, lengths to find out things that pique my interest. And, YC, finally seemed like a place where I could belong after feeling so very different all my life.

It is painful to see them return your application with a generic 'no' because I have no way of knowing what I could improve or what is it that made them look away in the first place. I'm pissed off because I care.

To quote from Don Quixote, "there were no embraces, because where there is great love, there is often little display of it."

I hope they could give me some feedback. For once in my life, I'd know, for a fact, than having to ruminate and speculate over it.

jdrobins2000 12 years ago | |

I fully support your initial reaction to not let it slow you down. Despite my post, I am not deterred or upset in any way. Disappointed sure, but then again I could list a number of reasons why we might be rejected on paper. So, I won't make assumptions about why they passed.

I just hate to see an opportunity for learning missed, whether I am the student or teacher. I would also like to evaluate whether there is a fundamental problem they perceive, large or small, or if it is an issue of communication. And if they do see a valid major flaw, I sure would love to know about it.

Perhaps, as can be inferred from their "it's not you, it's me" breakup-esque language, they are concerned about causing damage by providing rejection feedback. Perhaps they are concerned they don't have sufficient time to evaluate applications thoroughly enough to provide reliably meaningful feedback. Or perhaps they are concerned that their feedback might be taken more strongly than intended. Perhaps in reality it is more beneficial overall for them NOT to provide feedback. But given a choice, I would opt for feedback and believe I would benefit from it.

swatkat7 12 years ago | | |

I agree that they're being too nice to the founders thinking if their feedback could alter their paths. I like how you draw parallels to a break-up. But even during a break-up pussyfooting around what made you break up with the other person just makes them generally sour and guarded.

I've seen a lot of people who speculate (often for a long time), at the reasons for their break-up and that ends up consuming them. It might lead to them questioning the very basis of why they started doing something in the first place.

Feedback helps there! I guess, the sheer volume of applications make it impossible for them to individually respond to every application, but, without feedback, it just seems grim and insincere.

kennethtilton 12 years ago |

"Why not" rings very true and can be taken as encouragement to soldier on. Yes, it would have been great to have YC's backing, but at this point it's a bit of a lottery, isn't it? And if your project cannot succeed without YC, that is not a good sign. Once more into the breach.