Show HN: A website aiming to fix homelessness in SF

45 points by SeckinJohn 12 years ago | 68 comments

Hi everyone, I am organizing a crowdfunding campaign to give blankets/food/books/glasses and new year's postcards to 1000 homeless people in San Francisco.

Since we as the residents already spend a lot of money on the homelessness issue in SF via government(200MM+/year), I thought some of us would be willing to take a more active role in fixing this issue by donating to campaigns like this one(and to more sustainable ones). So, I am thinking of turning this campaign into a crowdfunding platform for activists and organizations that want to work on homelessness related issues in San Francisco.

I wanted to share the campaign here thinking you might like the idea & might want to share your thoughts on it: https://operationsflove.com

So far the supporters have been mostly my friends but I believe this could go viral with some improvement.

Would love hear what you all think, Thanks, Seckin

ChuckMcM 12 years ago |

I recall a time at a community meeting I advocated finding a way of providing a facility that could house and treat the addicted and mentally ill, I was accused of wanting to "sweep the homeless under the rug and forget about them." I knew it was a difficult problem I just didn't realize that the problem wasn't the homeless, the problem has roots in our collective understanding of what is a 'better' versus 'not better' quality of life.

I have always held that it is one of the main purposes of government to maximize the quality of life for the governed. Whether they are rich, poor, sane, or insane. What I always find challenging is when someone chooses to define 'better' in a way that I cannot comprehend.

I strongly recommend that anyone who wants to help here start by looking at what we had, in terms of laws and institutions, which gave the state the ability to hold someone and treat their illness, and restrict their movements, and why those institutions were abolished and laws changed.

As a community we changed our position from it is 'better' to house these people and give them treatment, to it is 'better' that they live without constraints and someone trying to provide help they don't want.

When a person says they would rather sleep on a bench than be given drugs that make them feel "bad" and be forced to live with other people who are similarly afflicted, which is better? Homelessness or being institutionalized? Why?

robbrown451 12 years ago | |

You make interesting points.

I do, however, think that it is the right of the governed to make rules against sleeping on benches, that they paid for with their tax dollars. Same goes for sidewalks, doorways, etc. I suppose you could say such rules are "restricting of movements" (in the broadest sense), but they seem reasonable restrictions to me.

That said, I also think it is society's responsibility to provide another option.

ChuckMcM 12 years ago | | |

That is a well understood argument for the common good. Which is that the vast majority of the citizens are served by available benches, not by occupied benches, (or other publicly supplied services) and so excluding people from sleeping on them makes sense in the context of the entire constituency.

   > That said, I also think it is society's responsibility
   > to provide another option.

I don't think many would disagree, the challenge comes with deciding what exactly is that option? I am an engineer so I find I tend to come up with practical but socially inept solutions.

At the time there was a discussion about how "we" (where we is the city of Sunnyvale) might use the Onizuka Air Force base facility (aka the 'Blue Cube') which was being decommissioned and turned over to the public sector for re-use. I was trying to figure out if there was a way we could convert part of that facility into what would essentially be caves, self heated concrete structures that were impervious to fire, contained internal pipes with a heat transfer fluid to maintain a livable temperature (cooling or warming), a dedicated latrine system that would periodically flush out all waste, and that were nominally "open" but could be enclosed with available materials. Something that people who were otherwise unwilling to live in a more traditional shelter/section 8 housing, might be able to survive in. This wasn't even a basic income kind of problem, these were people who are mentally non-functional adults. Was there any sort of place we could create that would make their lives better than it was today. They are an at risk group for whom it is very difficult these days to provide services for.

It was wildly derided as putting these people on a 'reservation' or 'in pens' or any number of things. Like I said earlier, socially inept. I don't know have any good solutions.

mrharrison 12 years ago |

The reason there are many homeless in SF, is because there are many shelters in the Tenderloin that provide these things you are talking about. Think you should first ask why are they homeless, not just give them random things. They are homeless either because, they have drug problems, psychological issues, or the least likely -- they have a problem getting employment.

nickthemagicman 12 years ago | |

It's kind of amazing how you can stereotype huge amounts of people in two sentences.

And it's ALL THEIR FAULT.

Not the economy, not the insane cost of higher education to gain job skills, not the outsourcing and automation of modern society.

It's the homeless who are failures.

That's why I propose Gladiator hobo fights to the death.

Only the strongest hobo's survive.

Make them earn their cheeseburgers like a good capitalist.

yid 12 years ago | | |

Oh get off that pedestal. OP was talking about the Tenderloin. Have you ever walked through the Tenderloin? A large fraction of the homeless people there clearly have severe psychological or drug issues. They're not there because of the economy.

scotty79 12 years ago | | |

I don't think it's somebodies fault that he has psychological issues or that it turned out that he is prone to addiction to drugs.

mwfunk 12 years ago | | |

You're not making a good case for your point of view here.

SeckinJohn 12 years ago | |

I agree that there are multiple complex causes of homelessness and that we need to address those issues. I have been thinking about this for a while and I have talked with a lot of social workers and activists to learn the details of the issue, yet, I am not the best person to work on actively solving those main causes. So, with this first campaign, I am trying to reach the people who are passionate about fixing this problem by directly designing/executing campaigns or by donating. I believe that the people who have been working on this for years will be the ones that will come up with the most sustainable solutions. I will try my best to help them reach potential donators through this website.

grumps 12 years ago | |

Amen. My fiance is a social worker and has been working with homeless for the past 5 years.

koevet 12 years ago | |

Never been to SF but I remember reading this article recently on HN: http://priceonomics.com/what-its-like-to-fail/?src=longreads

jpeg_hero 12 years ago |

How does this "fix homelessness in SF?"

Same number of homeless but now they have blankets and books too?

vehementi 12 years ago | |

I'm not sure how it's sustainable either. Sustainable via getting people to continue donating blankets and books?

Kiro 12 years ago | |

Think bigger.

habosa 12 years ago |

In many discussions like this I see the argument that some/most/all homeless people are drug addicts or mentally ill or otherwise not deserving of help.

I have always been of the opinion that I don't care why someone is homeless, I would like to help them. There is nobody that deserves to live on the street in a nation with as much wealth as America, even if they've made bad decisions (drugs, alcohol, crime, etc.). I think it's our job as a society to put a roof over everyone's head to the best of our abilities, it's inhuman to pick and dodge among homeless people and go about our lives like it is normal.

If I could solve any problem in my lifetime, it would be homelessness in America. I wish I had any idea where to start. I know it's not as noble of a cause as curing cancer or helping the needy who live in true poverty around the world, but it's something that's in my face every day and I think it's a failure of our modern society.

nperez 12 years ago |

My only advice is to provide socks too. Socks get gross and/or wet or hard if you can't easily wash them.. and they're not too expensive.

ja27 12 years ago | |

Funny. My son's Cub Scout pack worked with a local homeless group and the top requested things they packed in gift bags for them were cheap flashlights and tube socks. They use the socks for everything.

rhizome 12 years ago | |

Absolutely. You can't do much with messed-up feet and body from dirty/wet/nonexistent socks and underwear. These discomforts strike to the core of basic human functioning.

11001 12 years ago |

Go out and talk to some social workers, figure out what tech could actually help with. This is just silly.

SeckinJohn 12 years ago | |

I would love to talk with more social workers/activists/organizations working on this and similar issues. Please feel free to send an email to me at seckincansahin@gmail.com

I have been iterating on this campaign for at least a month now according to feedback I have received from 50+ people in all walks of life, but I agree that there is still a huge room for improvement. And I would love to hear more about the campaigns that you think we could work on after this one.

dshanahan 12 years ago | | |

I had a long coffee with HandUp's founder Rose Broome, who's done a boatload of legwork in this space (and just had Jason Calicanis ask to lead an investment round). Was intro'd to her product by a homeless guy in my hood and immediately had to know more. It's the first piece of tech that really wowed me with regards to making some headway on some of these issues - I'd highly encourage anyone who thinks about the space a lot to connect with her team. They're pretty responsive @handup on twitter.

CCs 12 years ago | | |

http://streetlifeministries.org/ is run by an ex-homeless (David), you can ask him.

gkoberger 12 years ago |

Very awesome.

One thing I love about Watsi is that I can actually see (and pick) who I'm donating to. There's something cool about being able to read their stories and see their pictures -- it almost makes me feel bad going to the site and not donating.

Good luck!

gkoberger 12 years ago | |

Someone else mentioned this site, which is exactly what I was thinking:

https://handup.us/

pcloadletter 12 years ago |

It's a nice gesture, but it won't 'fix' homelessness. There are some homeless who will stay that way; you can see them roaming around in packs. And then there are the mentally ill; they need medications and structure.

There's too much money to be made by the established people, so chances of fixing homelessness are negligible. It's a corrupt system.

losf 12 years ago | |

I agree than the term "fixing homelessness" is probably not appropriate. As you said some homeless might want to stay homeless, and that is fine. But for the homeless who want to get out of homelessness, there should be a clear path to get back. That could start with basics (shelter, bathroom, medical and social help).

nezumi 12 years ago |

I don't live in SF but I work for a Bay Area company and have often wondered, while waiting to get onto one of those shiny buses, why a city with such a high concentration of rich, smart people is failing its least fortunate residents so miserably and obviously. Why are the technological elite so helpless in the face of this problem on their own doorstep?

Reading the comments here it seems that there is a massive gap in understanding, empathy and plain old data - are there no studies answering the questions being speculated on here?

If you could find a way to address that gap of understanding - provide the technologists with data, and fully describe the constraints - perhaps there can be a useful discussion in the technology community.

robbrown451 12 years ago | |

I think the mistake you are making is when you talk about it as failing "its least fortunate residents," without regard for the fact that those residents may only be there because of how well it does treat them.

losf 12 years ago |

Spending $200M/year on ~15,000 homeless, that's ~$1,000/month for each homeless. I don't think we need more money. We need to spend it better.

Why not build public bathrooms ? That could be used by homeless and others (like people renting a bedroom w/o shower, poor, students, etc.). Actually that could be a way to reach homeless people, to provide them medical and social help.

To integrate homeless to society you need to provide them the basics that they don't have (bathroom, shelter, laundry, food, medical and social help, and even bank account, internet, phone). Not all will grab the opportunity, but at least they will have a chance to.

jdkuepper 12 years ago |

I applaud efforts like these for at least doing something to address the problem, even if it doesn't turn out to be the most effective use of capital in the end as some suggest here.

That said, I think some of the best projects fighting homelessness are supportive housing projects that help people get an apartment and provide additional services for medical/psychiatric treatments, food stamps, etc. [1]

1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supportive_housing

llamataboot 12 years ago | |

Housing First has been shown to be fiscally prudent, generate good outcomes, as well as just being plain compassionate (of course we shouldn't base whether or not you have access to a home on whether or not you have a substance abuse issue). Salt Lake City has had some huge successes implementing it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_first

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=18984066

robbrown451 12 years ago |

It seems a bit like trying to fix the pigeon problem in the city by putting out pigeon food.

The harsh reality is that the more accommodating to the homeless the city is, the more homeless there will be.

I think there are solutions, and they can be compassionate, but simply making life easier for the homeless has long term drawbacks that are greater than the short term upsides.

rodrodrod 12 years ago |

Semi-related: I recently watched this video on $20 homeless backpack care kits (http://youtu.be/Y6fkyf9UGAE), thought it was a neat idea. Figured it might be useful for those looking for simple ways to help out a bit.

joshribakoff 12 years ago |

I've seen homeless people abuse entitlements (turn down jobs because they'd loose their handouts, etc.)

On the other hand, some of them would get laughed at in an interview without being "cleaned up" to look presentable, which a hand out could help with.

srameshc 12 years ago |

I think its a great idea.

nickthemagicman 12 years ago |

OP after reading all the comments in this thread, I've determined that your idea for mercy and compassion is a flawed concept and is not good capitalism.

What you should do instead is turn your web site into a bumfights startup!!!

Make them fight to the death hunger games style for tons of swag.

The profit potential is huge, the homeless population will be decreased, AND the leftover hobos will have tons of good swag!

optimusclimb 12 years ago | |

I don't have downvote power on here, but I think you should re-consider your comment - as it's snarky, doesn't add anything, and doesn't really follow the ethos of HN.

nickthemagicman 12 years ago | | |

I'm really commited to start up culture! I think this a great idea.

nickthemagicman 12 years ago | |

Please upvote!!!

This is a great startup idea!!

joshdotsmith 12 years ago | |

I also wish I could downvote you into oblivion. You're mischaracterizing others to an extreme, and in such poor taste.

nickthemagicman 12 years ago | | |

I'm mischaracterizing ignorance?

Mischaracterizing dehumanization of entire swathes of people with a simplistic black and white view of the world.

It could be literally Hitler posting these comments.

There's no taste too low for people like that no matter what side of the aisle you're on.