Running ASP.NET vNext on OS X and Linux(graemechristie.github.io) |
Running ASP.NET vNext on OS X and Linux(graemechristie.github.io) |
Good one :)
Followed Graeme's instructions and after about 30 mins spent building the latest Mono I was quickly able to get ASP.vNext up and running on OSX.
Found one small mistake in the instructions, the switch --feed should be --source in the kpm restore step.
Can anyone imagine a compelling business case for this? I am not used to corporations being overly generous.
They are just making a bet that tight coupling to a singular platform does not give them the agility they want for the future. This may also be a trial balloon. If this goes well you may see other things in the Microsoft stack make similar changes.
* sell more sql server
* reach developers who wouldn't consider ms technology at all
* accelerate the nuget "marketplace" of open source 3rd psrty libraries, which could benefit other platforms almost for free (winphone, xbox, winrt, win8)
* finally, there's a good chance a lot of the stuff will "just work(tm)" well enough only on windows. Suddenly your planned linux deployment is thrown out and replaced with windows to make those small annoyances just go away
* Developers developers developers
Since it's more trouble porting code to a new language than it is porting web servers to a new host OS, it makes total sense to encourage more developers towards .NET via open source platforms.
It seems that Linux vs Windows is often a fundamental question, so Microsoft is going to rule out all of their products if they can't say yes. Mono is plausible; I've been using it in production for years and processed billions of transactions with it. Microsoft adding more official help reassures the people that might otherwise dismiss Mono.
Microsoft still has some good product value. SQL Server is pretty fantastic as far as capabilities and getting them to work goes. Unfortunately their decision to go all Oracle on their licensing means a lot of people are going to be looking elsewhere. (Not adding "basic" things like JSON operators is also a bit embarrassing.) Office and Visual Studio are unrivaled.
Windows can sell itself on its own merits, and has been for ages. Meanwhile, dev tools is a billion dollar a year revenue division, and yet it could be even bigger. C# is one of the best languages around at present, but a lot of the "cool kids" don't use it because it's too tied to the Microsoft stack.
I typed a bunch of stuff here already but I just deleted it, instead I'm going to go with an analogy.
If devs are cats then doing things like porting the .net toolchain to linux/osx is like leaving cat food outside. And that's precisely how you turn feral cats into house cats. Cats will go where the food is. And they'll keep coming back to it night after night.
If you treat devs right, and give them the tools they want on the platforms they want they will become encouraged to turn to you for support. They will buy your IDE and other dev tools. They may even buy your OS and database tools. Additionally, by increasing the adoption rate of the .net toolchain it makes it that much easier for devs to write for winphone, windows, xbox one, etc. If you encourage devs to use C# for android/iOS development then the cost/benefit prospect for shipping a winphone version of an app changes dramatically vs. using raw java/obj-C.
It's win/win for devs and for MS.
ASP.NET and C# may be incredibly amazing, best-thing-since-sliced-bread, when compared to what exists for Windows developers, but, for most developers who live outside the Microsoft ecosystem, it deserves no more than a "meh". There are tons of languages in the C# space, and even more tons of modern web frameworks to choose from. Why would anyone pick ASP.NET when they have so many other toys?
With the rise of other tools, they have a foot in the Linux/MAC development, where else, they wouldn't have anything outside of Windows. Their coöperation with Mono is great, helping a partner further while letting the .Net thrive :)
BTW. Their strong argument is Visual Studio, which is still (personal opinion), 100% better then any other tool i ever tried - although i must admit, Sublime Text feels great, but it isn't integrated like Visual Studio
Notepad with plug-ins vs IDE. I mean ReSharper alone beats everything except for maybe IntelliJ IDEA.
Sure - make Windows the premiere platform for (ASP.)NET, which is rather a given (even if not intentionally, which it most certainly would be, unintentionally the practical implementation details mean that things will just naturally work better with Windows). Get teams that would have adopted alternatives to adopt .NET under the premise that it is cross-platform and goodness now. Make a really good case for them to switch to Windows down the line.
That isn't a new tactic, and is done across all industries by many businesses.
Despite the apparent influx of Microosft-platform devs on HN lately, this is not going to gain traction -- it is, in essence, a gimmick, and simply provides a talking point to avoid changing platforms.
What makes you think that? Microsoft makes things easy for developers.
They've already enabled multiple generations of so-called "Blub developers" to service major portions of the vast enterprise landscape. If you think blub devs are stupid, then you must believe that Microsoft offers a really easy development environment. So why would that be unwanted or un-useful?
Will you argue that nobody wants to get locked into Microsoft's ecosystem or that nobody likes them based on whatever politics? I don't think there is any lock-in here (since it's running on Linux) and I don't think people are that principled when it comes to tools (based on the observation that so many `nix devs have locked themselves into the comfy and easy to use Apple ecosystem).
It makes me suspicious of the source and purpose of them.
[1] Slowly, but inexorably. Anyway, this is server side. The only similar act on the client side I can rmember is making Office run on Android.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/1970941-microsoft-earnings-h...
Microsoft's Windows Server division is the second largest business unit making up over 20% of its total value. It is also one of the fastest growing divisions of Microsoft. During Q2 FY14, revenue from the commercial segment, which includes servers, commercial office licensing and cloud platform, grew 10% to $12.66 billion driven by higher SQL server sales and adoption of the cloud based Azure platform. Many customers of Microsoft depend on SQL servers for mission critical and business intelligence needs, specifically in the big data analytics domain. As a result, Microsoft's SQL server revenue grew by 11%, outpacing the server market. Additionally, its Azure cloud offering clocked in triple digit growth in revenues. We're encouraged by the continual growth that this division posted, and it is becoming an important driver for Microsoft's value.
And no comments allowed, either! Changing formats to be hip is fun!
Serious question. If there are real benefits I would love to know about them.
https://github.com/aspnet/Home
For some reason I can't get the web ones to work (this is on OSX), I see:
System.DllNotFoundException: httpapi.dll
One answer is simply that C# is an awesome language. It is roughly as expressive as Ruby and Python, yet it is usually faster and it has much more powerful tooling (MonoDevelop, Visual Studio), partly enabled by its static typing (which is mostly up to taste, I suspect).
Also, .NET is very batteries-included and the open source ecosystem is decent (decent, not good).
As an example, I currently run a team that develops a C# backend. We dev on Macs, Linuxes and Windowses, we deploy to Docker containers on Linux hosts, we use Postgres for data and the open source ServiceStack for API bindings. When e.g. one of our Mac devs does a deploy, not a single byte of Microsoft code is touched.
I'm not saying you should do this too. But it's a valid option, and you can perfectly well do C# without depending on Microsoft tooling or paying them anything. Of course the future is still very much determined by MS, so we're betting that MS doesn't kill Mono-for-Linux once they buy Xamarin. But that's not very different from Oracle and Java, really. MS made stronger and fairer community promises, if that's something.
First, I'd question why you'd still think of it as a proprietary ecosystem. It's an open source (Apache 2), cross platform framework. It's not even directly released by Microsoft, it's released under MS Open Tech, which is a foundation just focused on open source development. And it's not just "throw it over the wall open source", it's an open source project that's set up for and encouraging contributions.
Even the compiler it runs on is open source, also under Apache 2 (http://roslyn.codeplex.com/license).
As for the "why" bit, here are some reasons:
- If you're developing on Windows, Visual Studio is a pretty good web editor. That includes Visual Express for Web (free) with the Web Essentials extension (also free, works on Express). You can develop on Windows (inc. a VM) and deploy anywhere.
- C# really is a pretty nice language. It's static and compiled, but has support for some dynamic features. Linq is really useful. Generics work well. The language spec is under an open standard. Everyone has their own preferences on languages, but it's pretty nice.
- As a web framework running compiled assemblies, it can run pretty fast.
- If you're interoperating with .NET and/or Mono, of course this is pretty useful.
- C# and .NET are actually really good for cross-platform development (e.g. Xamarin hits ios, android, wp, maybe even tizen soon). For example, C# runs better on my Mac than Ruby does on my Windows machines.
- If you find that ASP.NET MVC 6 (the version vNext will run, including MVC / Web API / SignalR) works for you but you don't like Windows, you could dev on Mac / *nix and publish to Azure / Mono / whatever.
Very telling. And I think I now have my answer.
Up to now, Microsoft is using them to force people to buy Windows, at the expense of those products own market fit. Now, they are just removing IIS from that list.
I'm curious: what are these "other platforms" that Microsoft have briefly supported?
And even just talking about .NET, that was only created to compete with Java after Sun to Microsoft to court over MS's own Java implementation (though granted it's since evolved into something much more). .NET was originally sold as but MS quickly lost interest in pushing it on non-Windows platforms. And then came Silverlight to compete with Flash; and the cross platform hopes for that followed a similar fate once it became obvious that Flash was no longer a competition.
But as I said in another comment, it's a common enough strategy - hardly something unique to Microsoft. It even has it's own coined term: Embrace, extend and extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish
Internet Explorer for UNIX (Solaris, HPUX) during browser wars. When they ended, support was dropped.
Does leopard change its spots? If they are successful with ASP.NET as The Web Framework (not much realistic, I know), expect them to drop support for anything but Windows.
They may attract some Java developers, but I don't think it has much appeal outside their own ecosystem.
As for whether ASP.NET on Linux will ever attract many new developers; I must admit that I'm inclined to agree with you.
But that wasn't my point, I was commenting about how Microsoft support other platforms and standards to gain a foothold in that specific market; then introduce incompatibilities to lock people into their technology (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend_and_extinguish). It's a well used strategy (and not just by MS). In fact, I almost sympathise with it's usage as it makes a lot of business sense - even if it does totally suck from a user perspective.
Also, why down vote me; then ask the question? Doesn't that seem a somewhat backwards approach to discussion and peer moderation?
