Ask HN: What industry needs technical innovation?

40 points by nategraves 16 years ago | 74 comments

Today, in the office, we had a brief discussion of some of the industries or fields that seem to have had relatively little technical innovation over the past decade. Some industries seem to be getting a lot of attention from technical minds these days (e.g. the power grid, alternative fuels, etc.); others seem more stagnant and some may not stand to gain a lot from technological advancements.

But, I'm curious to hear others' opinions. What industries are using technology and practices that are antiquated?

SamAtt 16 years ago |

As someone who works as an IT person in the Mental Health industry I'd nominate that industry. Mental Health has all the problems of regular health care times 10.

To give the most basic example, there is no formalized charting system in the Mental Health Industry. You have standardized notes that are turned into the county but that's about it.

The industry I work in (treatment of abused children who have been removed from the home) has a 96% fail rate in California. That means 96% of the children entrusted to the state end up in jail or dead by the age of 25 (as of 2003). So if ever there was an industry that needed technology's help it's this one.

sorrow 16 years ago | |

The medical industry needs (good) software that helps with diagnosis. This covers mental health also.

You have symptoms of problem and it helps narrow down. Need a massive database of all known diseases as well as symptoms / remedies. Chart location data for origin of specific disease, (less likely to be rabies if Australia etc) and probability from all factors.

Would require huge amounts of data as well as many man hours to create but a system that does this task would be one of most beneficial medical breakthrough possible right now in my eyes.

Especially in mental health where there are symptoms of many things over many separate disorder, or rare one. It would be a bonus if you could let this information to be fully public, especially if one could direct users to relevant places.

ippisl 16 years ago | | |

such software exist , there's one i know called isabel/isabel health or something similar.there are probably others.

from what i know there's quite a strong resistance from doctors to working with software that automates their jobs. such software usually slows the doctors (he need to type etc) do it's hurts productivity. but to really gain the monetary benefit from using such software, a cheaper , and less knowledgable healthcare provider should use the software(for example nurse doing some jobs of the family doctor like in minute clinics, or family doctor doing some jobs of the specialist). As you can imagine ,shifting jobs between providers in the healthcare industry is not an easy job:)

dangoldin 16 years ago | | |

You also need doctors to be willing to accept the software. They may not since they may feel that it makes their job look "easy" and will therefore cut into their incomes.

ippisl 16 years ago | |

could something like rethinkautism.com could be helpfull in your industry(treatment of abused children) ?

olefoo 16 years ago |

Housing & Home Construction

Most house construction in the industrialised world is still done by semi-skilled hand labour. There are few radical advances in materials or methods that have gained traction with the industry. Partly this is because the building industry is held back by antiquated construction codes that specify acceptable means and materials rather than the minimum performance constraints that buildings must exceed to be considered safe. But there is a lot of cultural resistance as well, both from the building trades and from customers.

Home construction is an area where several orders of magnitude improvement in both cost and performance are possible, just by the application of basic engineering principles. Well, basic engineering principles and a willingness to circumvent the established order.

kirubakaran 16 years ago | |

May be this has to be first done in a country where it is possible (lax codes; not enforced; with corrupt officials etc - there are plenty of those) and made it a great success. May be after that the First World will catch up. You just have to make sure it doesn't get branded as Third World crap.

japherwocky 16 years ago | |

Alas, in construction circumventing the established order is generally known as a code violation, and frowned upon.

pg 16 years ago |

Presumably the fields that need innovation most are those that have some artificial constraint suppressing it. E.g. the music business, because anything good is ipso facto sued out of existence. Or the nuclear power industry, because the level of regulation becomes a barrier to entry to all but companies so bureaucratic they fit the government like a mold.

So oddly enough, you're most likely to be able to achieve innovation where other people are.

nategraves 16 years ago | |

Definitely. Technical innovation threatens their long-term positions at the top of the food chain. Innovation seems to means typically come through increased competition and a general opening of the market.

YuriNiyazov 16 years ago | |

Can you give an example of a young company that managed to legally sidestep that sort of regulation?

pg 16 years ago | | |

Usually the way you do it is by replacing the whole industry that's regulated.

jacquesm 16 years ago |

Software development. And no, that's not a joke. We really are roughly where we were in the 70's, we have not been able to make good use of the increase in machine power.

It would be nice to see something really fresh. I'm holding out for 'fleet', or something like it. A radical departure from what we think is 'best practice' and the ways to do things. Something that will turn software development into a true engineering discipline, without the house of cards feeling that we have today.

Kaizyn 16 years ago | |

Alan Kay with the Viewpoints Research Institute is doing some interesting work. If you have a chance, you should check out their released papers:

"STEPS Toward The Reinvention of Programming" http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2007008_steps.pdf

"STEPS Toward The Reinvention of Programming, 2008 Progress Report Submitted to the National Science Foundation (NSF), October 2008" http://www.vpri.org/pdf/tr2008004_steps08.pdf

The idea here is to rebuild the existing software infrastructure that goes into a fully-functioning system such that the source code is at a minimum an order of magnitude smaller than systems are today. To do so, they claim, requires building the software stack on top of the right abstractions. So far, it seems they've made some excellent progress.

gord 16 years ago | | |

sounds like lisp.

joeld42 16 years ago | |

but that's a culture problem and not a technology one.

(I don't know what this 'fleet' you speak of is, however)

jacquesm 16 years ago | | |

http://fleet.cs.berkeley.edu/docs/ivan.talk-the.fleet.archit...

You think software is not technology ?

Throwing away the structure that we have today and rethinking software from the ground up is definitely technology, not culture.

mediaman 16 years ago |

Agriculture. I'm studying an agricultural products distributor, and as much as automation has helped reduce the reliance on labor in the agricultural sector, there are still many areas hugely reliant on inefficient labor -- and many business owners are facing increasing financial difficulty because of a resistance toward automation.

I predict that as the industry consolidates, the more tech-savvy, bigger players with more capital will squeeze the small guys out. And there is an interesting opportunity for tech-savvy people there.

I am thinking specifically about some of the ag sectors which have not already massively consolidated, such as greenhouse-based ag.

simon_ 16 years ago |

How about law? Obviously there are non-technical problems there as well, but it seems like there is still a lot that could be done technologically to improve transparency and (maybe more interestingly) reduce expense.

idoh 16 years ago | |

I'm a non-practicing lawyer in the tech space. There actually is a lot of technology in law. For example, eDiscovery is a really hot field right now. The basic problem: given a multi-terabyte corpus, which documents are legally relevant?

In the past one would gather a room full of lawyers and actually read through all of the documents (a task I did once). Now you can use a combination of linguists, lawyers, and search techniques to do the job.

(the discovery phase of a trial on average accounts for 50% of litigation expenses)

nategraves 16 years ago | |

I've actually been thinking about law recently. It seems that, because it is a field that is based on rules, it would lend itself well to a more programmatic solution. Obviously not all law could be serviced programmatically, but there are certainly areas that could be.

vilya 16 years ago | |

There's already been quite a bit of work on applying technology to contract law relating to contracts (primarily, but not exclusively, financial contracts). There was a discussion about this on Lambda the Ultimate a while ago, if you're interested: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2973

adityakothadiya 16 years ago |

Immigration processing is one, atleast in US.

I've still not understood why it takes 4-5 years to USCIS office to grant or deny residency of an applicant. How can that process be so slow? All papers and evidences are submitted on day one. Then why it takes 4-5 years to process back-log applications and then process yours.

I know there is quota per country for per year. But not all quotas are full by all countries. Why can't they do shuffling and do dynamic quota management?

This inefficiency is frustrating to many individuals, so definitely need some technical innovation to process things efficiently.

jacquesm 16 years ago | |

That's because it is a deterrent.

anamax 16 years ago | |

> I've still not understood why it takes 4-5 years to USCIS office to grant or deny residency of an applicant.

What makes you think that the delay has anything to do with the actual processing of the application?

alanthonyc 16 years ago |

Business Accounting

The current quarterly system of reporting finances was (I believe) developed as a result of the Great Depression, to help inform the public of company status.

The recent banking meltdown shows how inadequate this system is.

Something more realtime is needed.

nategraves 16 years ago | |

I think that's an interesting idea. I know that quarterly filings are an SEC requirement, but it's at least in part to help shareholders keep abreast of the goings on of the company in which they are part owners. It seems like completely realtime would overwhelm casual investors, but could provide for much more accurate trade decisions than those made on speculation and the current system of quarterly conference calls.

alanthonyc 16 years ago | | |

Yes.

Another problem with the quarterly focus is that companies end up gaming the system (not in an entirely malicious way) in order to make the quarterly and annual results look good, almost like cramming for a final. It can detract from focusing on healthy long term growth.

s3graham 16 years ago |

Real estate is one that really chaps my ass.

I don't know what it's like in other countries, but in Canada there's this bizarre mafia of middlemen that take ~6-10% of the value of house when you sell. They self-promote and self-reinforce to maintain an information advantage, but they don't seem to offer a service beyond a list of houses with pictures, and hand-holding.

byoung2 16 years ago |

Education

vgurgov 16 years ago |

Energy. All kind of. More efficient using of existing sources and new sources. Think of it this way: How much worth ALL IT industry- all bright stars- Google, apple, MS, ibm? Something around $1T, right? Now Petrochina alone(!) is around 800B and its just about producing and selling gas in China!

So if you would be able to make technological innovation that would make my car engine say 10% more effective or produce just few %% that my home consumes - that will be HUGE!!!

michaelkeenan 16 years ago |

Government. It has a high barrier to entry (win an election/revolution) and a high consumer switching cost (move far away, get a new job, learn a new language). If the governing industry were more competitive, I think its quality of service would be better.

The Peter Thiel-funded Seasteading Institute is trying to decrease the start-up cost and the consumer switching cost. Paul Romer has another approach with the Charter City proposal he's advocating.

yan 16 years ago |

All of them.

Under that light, the world is full of opportunities.

nategraves 16 years ago | |

Ahhhhh, that's true, but I guess I was thinking less philosophically.

dpcan 16 years ago |

The Home.

It should be "standard" to have a single web interface for control over everything in my house.

1) Real-Time monitoring of water, electric and gas consumption.

2) Entertainment. I should be able to login to a website and click "TV's". Then I can see if they are on, what channel is being watched, what is scheduled to be recorded.

3) Security. Doors and Windows. Automation of opening, closing and locking. Plus video surveillance.

4) Upkeep. Sprinkler control. Heat control and lights. Start the dishwasher, start the coffee pot.

Sure, this can all be done with an excessive amount of work, lots of high tech and expensive gadgetry, and custom software setups, but that doesn't mean it HAS to be that way. I think the Home needs an overhaul.

nategraves 16 years ago | |

I used to hear a lot more about "smart" appliances than I do now. I know there have been some companies that have worked on developing outlet adapters that allow you to control some basic functionality over a network, but the smart appliance craze seems to have died down as of late.

alexdonners 16 years ago | | |

could you give any examples with names of companies that are doing the outlet adapters that you mention? I'd like to view them further.

skmurphy 16 years ago |

Healthcare, construction, K12 education are three tidepools that a lot of IT innovation has left behind over the last 30 years. None of them need invention, they need to import and adapt working innovations from other fields.

zoba 16 years ago |

Electricity, the power grid... Right now I'm pretty sure power companies can't tell you if the power is on at your house or not...The system is pretty old.

djdt 16 years ago | |

The technology is there. If you live in the US then most substations have metering, various indications (transformer monitoring, breaker positions, etc.), and breaker/circuit switcher/motor operated device controls. If there is a fault on your feeder then the utility should know immediately. Chances are if you are served by a larger utility then you will also get an automated time of day meter in the next couple of years. Is the adoption of technology slow compared other industries? Sure, safety and reliability rule.

personacode 16 years ago |

Automobile - currently we are under the model slow and steady wins the race and kills the environment. Traffic sucks, gas sucks, texting kills people.

_bfhp 16 years ago |

Environmental improvement (not necessarily environmentally-friendly, just human environment)

ie http://www.project10tothe100.com/ideas.html "Create real-world issue reporting system"

Google's Project 10 to the 100 has a lot of good ideas related to technological innovation.

gry 16 years ago |

It seems to me the largest industries -- the ones bound by regulation or the way it's always been done are the ones most ripe for change.

News, real estate, health care, automotive and agriculture come to mind. We're seeing some of these change because of technology. Hopefully, the ones that survive will be stronger for it.

ippisl 16 years ago |

The third world is craving for low cost technologies ,and there's a huge market potential there. only in the last few years companies have started to become interested ,so there might empty places for startups.

baran 16 years ago |

Healthcare, plan and simple.

dankjaergaard 16 years ago | |

more specifically: clinical trials. This is where most money spent on drug development goes. The sooner big pharma figures out if a drug works or not the better. Its still a very paper based industry, which I think is an FDA requirement. So I believe lots can be innovated here

danek 16 years ago |

reminds me of an article my friend wrote: http://kcomposite.blogspot.com/2009/06/uniquely-american.htm...

(short answer = taxes and banking)

studiotentpole 16 years ago |

Digital Advertising

Chirag 16 years ago |

Agriculture.