New iPhone SE

1539 points by CoachRufus87 6 years ago | 1459 comments

andrepd 6 years ago |

I was itching for this announcement, not because I want to buy an iPhone, but because this will finally mean other manufacturers will start to make compact phones.

It drives me up the wall that I simply cannot find a reasonably competent phone (i.e. mid/upper range from the past 4 years) which is not absolutely fucking huge. It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even the new standard, but the only standard.

spurgu 6 years ago | |

> It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even the new standard, but the only standard.

Utterly insane.

I replaced my SE with a Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact yesterday. It has a 5" screen and decent specs (2018 flagship). About as small as you can get a mobile nowadays, sadly.

And wow how I've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most aspects. I can't believe I was stuck with iOS (as an experiment) for almost 1.5 years. Reason being that I hadn't been able to find anything below 5" in the Android world.

Razengan 6 years ago | | |

> And wow how I've missed Android, the UX is soooo much better in most aspects.

iOS has its problems, but every time I have to handle somebody's Android (i.e. to help them do something faster than telling them), I want to give it back as quickly as possible.

colechristensen 6 years ago | | |

As a 95th-percentile-sized human, the large phones have been quite appreciated, there is quite a lot of frustration when everything in the world is the wrong size, whatever your size. Now if we could do something about airline seats, sedans, and home furniture.

dagrha 6 years ago | | |

Nice choice on the XZ2. Like you I picked up a phone from the Xperia line. It's an older model than yours, namely the Z1 Compact, which I chose after filtering for form factor, LineageOS support, and price. I wrote about it here: https://hallau.world/post/the-perfect-android-phone/

akoncius 6 years ago | | |

It's funny that 5" smartphone is branded as "compact" :D

tudorw 6 years ago | | |

Dell Mini 5, 2010, oh how people laughed at my clown phone, now it's 'pocket size'!

barbs 6 years ago | | |

I'm hoping this recent announcement will highlight the gap left in the market for 4-inch phones.

leeoniya 6 years ago | | |

a couple months ago i got a Sony Xperia XZ2 Compact to replace my Z5 Compact (4.6") - they are hard to find new!

i'm waiting eagerly for the camera focus bug to be fixed in oemv6 firmware to flash TWRP & Lineage and try it as a daily driver:

https://forum.xda-developers.com/xperia-xz2/development/rom-...

for now, my Z5 Compact is still going strong but has known noise cancellation mic issues (hardware) that cause echo on the other end of some calls.

cactus2093 6 years ago | |

I know a few people that still have the SE, and for all of them it was mainly about the size. That and a belief that they didn't want to be glued to their phone all the time. So the benefit was a combination of the smaller size being more ergonomic, plus the fact that less content fit on the screen was actually a pro for them because the extra friction encourages wasting less time on it.

It does seem weird that instead of continuing to serve this market, Apple assumes everyone wants their same large form factor and it's only a matter of price.

On the other hand, maybe we're just in a bubble. Trying to avoid consumer tech even though you could easily afford it is a rather niche, privileged view of a subset of people that work in tech. Maybe outside this bubble there's a much larger group of people who do want the big, more up to date designs and price is the only consideration.

freeflight 6 years ago | | |

> It does seem weird that instead of continuing to serve this market, Apple assumes everyone wants their same large form factor and it's only a matter of price.

The problem there is that they can't get the smaller form factor, +nice specs, at that low price but at a higher price it would probably not sell as good because the SE line always had that air of "more affordable iPhone" to it.

That why this new SE is exactly iPhone 8 dimensions, to a point where Apple even confirmed that iPhone 8 cases will be compatible with the new SE.

So it stands to reason that they retooled a lot of their 4.7-inch production to make this "SE" as affordable as it is.

Trying to put all of that into a 4-inch screen form factor like the original SE, would require sourcing completely different parts, require much more retooling of already existing manufacturing processes, for many parts, there'd be zero overlaps with their other products.

So while people like me prioritize the 4-inch screen smaller form-factor, Apple chose to embrace the SE as a "budget iPhone" brand that makes all the other "budget" competition look like really outdated and lame ducks.

Which is most certainly a bigger market than people prioritizing size of the device over anything else.

hosh 6 years ago | | |

The 5S and the SE for me was mainly about being minimalist.

Size was a big part of it, but it was also that the SE was a really good design that should last for years. Up until this announcement, I was going to have the battery replaced on the SE. The bigger issue is if Apple will continue to support the 1st gen SE with iOS.

My wife prefer the bigger phones. She has aphantasia. I don't, and often hold visualizations of things I can't see.

It eventually dawned on me that people buy those things to attach to the back of their phone because you _couldn't_ safely hold and operate the bigger phone with a single hand without that attachment.

frenchie4111 6 years ago | | |

> That and a belief that they didn't want to be glued to their phone all the time.

This made me think of another reason they are cutting smaller form factor phones, maybe not valid.

It could be that manufacturers of mobile phones are optimizing for engagement (see: apple switching revenue to services), and the engagement metrics on smaller form factor phones are lower, so they want people using less of them. They only want you to be able to buy a larger phone, because they want you to engage with your phone more.

PunksATawnyFill 6 years ago | | |

I still have my SE, for very good reasons:

1. HEADPHONE JACK. Selling music- and media-centric devices without headphone jacks is stupid and offensive.

2. Ergonomics: FLAT SIDES. You can grip the old SE. Rounded edges are stupid, because the phone wants to flip sideways out of your grip.

And the new SE still uses the Lightning port, which is technically incompetent in addition to being proprietary.

lowlevel 6 years ago | | |

Main thing for me is size in the hand and squared off sides. I find anything with rounded edges I can't hold on to and just hits the floor constantly... little better with a case, but that makes the phones just that much bigger and less comfortable. I can't bring myself to let go of the old SE's.... of which I keep two around just in case.

jrochkind1 6 years ago | | |

Hm, at 4.7" this might be a bit bigger than the original SE (4.0" I think?), but I think it's still among the smallest phone on the market, no? Are there even any smaller?

koheripbal 6 years ago | |

...as someone who absolutely loves big phones - I am on the other side of this argument.

I read and watch shows on my phone constantly, and screen size is a major factor for me. I specifically buy clothes with larger pockets to accommodate.

I agree that choice would be better - but I imagine that economies of scale sometimes means having only one size for everyone if you want to keep them cheaper than the competition.

dijit 6 years ago | | |

Here's the rub; I'm glad you have your fill of phones to choose from. But consider that I (and many others) have nothing.

If the situation was reversed I would not argue against larger phones, in fact, I was part of that generation when the iPhone 4, 4s, 5 et al. were being released and over in Android Land the OnePlus One was coming out (legitimately called a Phablet)- I welcomed the choice. It wasn't for me of course but more variety is great.

Unfortunately choice has been removed and I regret celebrating the new form factor thoroughly.

What I'm trying to convey is that: I'm glad you have choice, please give me back mine. And I would graciously ask that if you're ever in a conversation about large phones vs small phones you don't take the stance of arguing against the existence of smaller phones simply because you have a preference for the current standard of sizing.

jazzdog 6 years ago | | |

Iphone SE user here. Big screens is why I have an iPad in the house. Small form factor is why I have an iPhone SE in the pocket. My iPad gets _much_ more use than my iPhone. I'm not out and about much, even before the virus. I see phones sticking out of people's pockets and it makes no sense to me.

goatlover 6 years ago | | |

I never understood watching stuff on a phone given tablets, laptops, PCs, smartTVs and even VR headsets. But then again, I take my laptop everywhere and use it for everything when there's a choice between the two.

abruzzi 6 years ago | | |

But your needs/desires are well catered to by the many many large phones. My needs/desires are completely ignored in the marketplace (maybe too few people agree with me). I tried larger phones. For a year or so I had a iPhone XS, but I absolutely hated it. So a month ago I upgraded it to a used SE, which I love.

m463 6 years ago | | |

I think as people age and seeing things clearly requires you hold them at arm's length, smaller screens will lose their appeal.

But young people, especially teenagers, wow they can still focus at the ends of their noses.

lsc 6 years ago | | |

for me, devices of different sizes do different things; I carry a lot of specialized devices, from a small laptop to a giant e reader to a regular sized ereader to a cellphone to a watch, and for me? the thing that is currently missing is a thing I can input text on with one hand (while doing something with the other hand) the SE original filled that gap; the iphone 7 is slightly too large to comfortably input text with using one hand, it's a little cramped to input text with two, at least for my hands.)

I should try one of those pop-out deals and see if it makes using the iphone 7 with one hand practical.

simonblack 6 years ago | |

I spent 20-odd years enjoying how how mobile phones went from being huge 2-3 pound 'bricks' all the way down to the Nokia 100 gram 'chocolate bars' of the mid-2000s that fitted beautifully in my shirt pocket.

Then I watched in disbelief as phones began getting more and more swollen every year and got too large to hold comfortably in one hand. (or fit in your top pocket)

Time and again the phone-shop salesmen would look sideways at me when I said I didn't want the latest and greatest offering, but one of the older and smaller phones. My current phone is an iPhone 5S that I have kept for several years.

barbs 6 years ago | | |

Can recommend the older iPhone SE. Same size and shape, upgraded specs, latest OS.

fergie 6 years ago | |

Agreed. In terms of form the iPhone 5 was best. The last iphone that could be used one-handed.

close04 6 years ago | | |

If they'd have minimal bezels, for comfort, in an iPhone 5 body we'd have about ~5.2" available for the screen. Unfortunately keeping the bezels for the fingerprint reader, earpiece, and front camera (~60% screen to body ratio) means that while it would fit better in small hands, the small screen may not give a great experience with today's content (sites, apps), or our eyes.

My old iPod Touch 5th gen. was quite a shocker for everyone who nostalgically reminisced about the good old times of small screens. I guess it depends what one expects from the phone.

jpxw 6 years ago | | |

I am operating my iPhone 7 one-handed as we speak

crispyambulance 6 years ago | |

It's called "IPhone SE" but does that mean it's the same height and width as the previous SE??

That's the key thing about the SE and before it the 5S-- something that can be operated with one hand and that can fit in a pocket.

It's clear from the photo that it doesn't have a camera optic that's flush with the back, nor does it have that cool pseudo 1960's Philips-like metal case with flat beveled sides.

chrisrickard 6 years ago | | |

Unfortunately it's the same size as the 8 https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/why-upgrade/

My love of SE comes from its small the size... So i'm disappointed.

smeyer 6 years ago | | |

It looks like this is on the same chassis as the iphone 8 (5.45" in the longest dimension) whereas the old iphone SE was on the same chassis as the 5 and 5S (4.87" in the longest dimension).

saagarjha 6 years ago | | |

I guess Apple disagrees with you definition of the SE :(

205guy 6 years ago | |

I'm with you on the size, which is why I still have the SE myself.

It also bugs me that no one is showing a comparison of the new SE to the old SE, so here is an old article I found, 2nd photo is the 7 (5.5 in), 6 (4.7 in == new SE), and old SE (4 in).

https://www.imore.com/iphone-6s-vs-iphone-se-whats-different...

So the new SE is bigger, but still acceptably small for most people. It seems like Apple couldn't bring themselves to make it any smaller. And at this price with these features, it will be my next upgrade (in 2-3 years), and I predict it will sell like hot-cakes.

Joeri 6 years ago | | |

Apple shows the comparison on their site: https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/why-upgrade/

kevin_thibedeau 6 years ago | | |

> So the new SE is bigger

You can fit a bigger screen into the same space with the bezels removed. There is no compelling reason to have a 4.7" screen when a 5.something" can fit in the same form factor.

oops 6 years ago | |

The Palm Phone[1] looks pretty cool and certainly ticks the compact box. It's almost enough to make me consider Android but I'll probably just keep using old SE until it dies.

1: https://palm.com/products/palm-unlocked

ip26 6 years ago | | |

It would probably be my ideal phone if the battery life was not reportedly atrocious.

throwaway123x2 6 years ago | | |

oo this is fantastic. Def gonna keep it in mind when I'm ready to change phones.

1996 6 years ago | | |

no nfc, no qi wireless or I would have purchased it already

cmrdporcupine 6 years ago | |

Mind boggling to me that 4.7" is compact? I miss smaller phones, for sure.

skocznymroczny 6 years ago | | |

Compared to Android, where it's hard to get anything below 6.2" it's very compact.

tomc1985 6 years ago | |

The forces that made the "phablet" standard are the same thing that makes software today so terrible -- "Let's support our biggest and most profitable use case and screw everyone else!"

This is not what tech is supposed to be about. There's supposed to be options, so all types of users can feel comfortable and at-home. Instead we force all users into a couple of comically-bad stereotypes based on market research pulled out of bullshit sales figures and a focus group's collective asses

quickthrower2 6 years ago | | |

Luckily, there is the Android ecosystem, so you get choice and don't need to get a massive phone.

radec 6 years ago | |

except that 4.7" is not exactly compact

McTossOut 6 years ago | | |

The main reason I haven't dumped my XZ2 Compact for a Palm Palm is my paranoia around owning a Chinese designed device.

Largely the same story for those waves of Android Lollipop "smart watches".

I'm very unhappy with the market for mobiles, it seems manufacturers have no balls, and are clueless about what I want / sensitive to what carriers are willing to sell en masse.

In a phrase, the stupid shitty financing options carriers provide seem to define the market for devices (supply, credit, marketing), not what actually makes a good device.

Shame all around.

jrochkind1 6 years ago | |

I wish it meant that, but i'm not sure. When the first SE was still in production, other manufacturers had already mostly stopped having anything small in their lines, no?

headmelted 6 years ago | |

Right but this isn't that. This is the new iPhone 6/7/8 upgrade in the same chassis (more or less).

This is not a new compact iPhone like the 4/4s/5/5S.

copperx 6 years ago | | |

As someone who has an iPhone 6 I see little reason to upgrade. FaceID might have changed things, but is there any reason to upgrade my phone besides a slightly faster CPU?

odiroot 6 years ago | |

I have the same sentiment. I held tight onto my Xperia X Compact until the battery gave way. Looked around and found literally no replacement for it, out of all manufacturers on the planet. In the end decided to go for XZ2 Compact which was already outdated at the purchase date.

I haven't seen any new phone in that class since mid-2018.

dorkwood 6 years ago | |

I suspect the trend is to do with the fact that the majority of the population use their phones as cameras now. A larger screen means larger photos and videos. As long as people are using their phones to browse Instagram, I don't see manufacturers going back to smaller form factors.

octocop 6 years ago | |

This has me furious, i've used the other iPhone SE before and the size is perfect.

kabacha 6 years ago | |

How is this phone compact with 50% body-to-screen ratio. There are already compact phones like samsung's s10e which is a modern phone. Honestly this looks like an april fools joke.

bebna 6 years ago | |

I switched this year to the Samsung Note 10, because it was SMALLER than the previous budget "lite" phone I got as a short term replacement for my broken down Z3 compact.

runjake 6 years ago | |

> It's insane that the "phablet" standard from ~5 years ago is now not even the new standard, but the only standard.

Is it? The market shifts to where the money is.

There apparently isn't enough money to make it worth the OEMs' time. If there were, they'd capitalize on it.

While I abhor huge phones, I see more Plus model iPhones than I do the "smaller" models, in the wild.

ksec 6 years ago |

1163 Comment right now, ~800 Are about Size of Devices. I thought there was another important point.

The current entry level iPhone; iPhone SE 2020 with A13 is now faster in Single Threaded performance than ALL current shipping Android, including Flagship Android. And judging by the Qualcomm roadmap, this will likely remain the same in 2021 as well.

This is important if you are doing or using Web Apps like Discourse which requires JS processing. The Cost of javascript is still huge. [1] [2]. And While Mobile Apps are well optimised to take advantage of multiple cores, it will still be bounded by Amdahl's law[3].

And a point on devices size.

Japan, the nation which prefer single handed usage and small size Smartphone, and has a hand size smaller than average, median or general US / EU population, has overwhelmingly voted with their pocket on the 4.7" Devices, and not the previous 4" iPhone SE. Even During the iPhone 7, iPhone 8 era.

So I do suggest before people writing off 4.7" as being large, please try and give it a go first.

Another Point worth pointing out, once the tech for FaceID Shrinks to small enough or could be done under display, a 4.7" Edge to Edge Face ID Design would be exactly the same size as the previous iPhone SE. I believe this could be the long term goal for Apple.

[1] https://medium.com/@addyosmani/the-cost-of-javascript-in-201...

[2] https://v8.dev/blog/cost-of-javascript-2019

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl%27s_law

coldpie 6 years ago |

Yes. I'm an Android user who is absolutely sick of phablets. I have a Pixel 3A (5.6") and it is way, way too big. I've been quite excited about this iPhone SE announcement. However, the lack of a headphone jack is a huge negative, and 4.7" is the absolute largest I think is reasonable. A little smaller would've been ideal. I'm undecided on whether to switch to the SE, but I genuinely hope it sells like crazy. Then maybe the Android copycat manufacturers like Google will copy the small form factor, but add in a headphone jack. One can dream...

threepio 6 years ago |

"Popular design"? On the contrary. As an iPhone SE owner, this is exactly the form factor that fans of the iPhone 4/5 series (like me) rejected as being too large.

ivraatiems 6 years ago |

As a current iPhone SE user, here's my assessment:

Pros:

* Feature set in terms of processor, camera, etc., is exactly what I want

* Continued presence of Touch ID is a huge plus, I don't like Face ID

* Price point is, admittedly, fantastic

Cons:

* Lack of headphone jack is still unacceptable

* Form factor is, candidly, still too big for my tiny hands

* Color schemes aren't as nice as the SE's (can I contribute to COVID-19 research without getting a bright red phone?)

I will be considering this phone, but skeptically. Would be ideal for me to be able to physically hold one before buying, but not sure that'll be possible (maybe I can borrow somebody's iPhone 8).

bluedevil2k 6 years ago |

An upgraded iPhone 8 with a starting storage of 64 Gb at only $399. Seems like a great deal. Makes me seriously consider this model for my next phone instead of spending $1200 on an iPhone 11 Max.

youeseh 6 years ago |

If the new one would have kept the design of the old one but added a full screen and updated cameras - that would have been perfect.

I get the feeling that I'm part of a large niche with whom the old iPhoneSE saw success by accident.

parsimo2010 6 years ago | |

The new iPhone 12 Pro is supposed to have a smaller screen than the 11 Pro and have squared sides, which basically means it will be shaped like the original SE, have a full screen, and the best cameras. Except for the price, the exact phone you want will probably be out later this year.

skrebbel 6 years ago | | |

> shaped like the original SE

But bigger, right?

ken 6 years ago | |

> success by accident

Sadly, it doesn't seem to be uncommon for a company (even Apple) to hit a home run and not understand why it was so successful. And then they're unable to follow up on it.

HyperCard still appears in top-10 lists of "greatest software ever" -- and it's usually the only one which is no longer maintained and doesn't have a modern equivalent.

proverbialbunny 6 years ago | | |

Steve Jobs was strongly adamant about the size of the iphone.

Likewise, Steve Jobs saw hypercard as the future, wanting it to sync up online between people, being like the future newspaper. It's no longer maintained because it's modern equivalent is a web browser. When Steve came back to Apple he pushed hard for advancing web tech instead.

weaksauce 6 years ago | |

Yeah I love my old se. The square sides give me a more secure feeling when holding it. I love that it is smaller and fits nicely into my pocket. I really don’t want a phablet.

JKCalhoun 6 years ago | |

Nah, I'm with you as well. Rounded edges? Thanks, hate 'em.

If anyone knows of a case for the soap-phones that restores more of a hard edge so I can grip it with more confidence....

snazz 6 years ago | | |

The glass back really helps grip it compared to the metal backs on the 6, 6s, and 7. Of course, any case with some rubber (like the Speck ones) are very grippy.

rgovostes 6 years ago |

Like many here I prefer the (original) iPhone SE due to the small size. Rumors of the iPhone 12 say that there will be a smaller model with a 5.4" edge-to-edge screen. I wanted to see how the size of that device would compare to the SE.

If we assume that the iPhone 12 would have the same aspect ratio as the iPhone 11, and that the "margins" between the edge of the device and the edge of the screen will be the same as well, we get:

   iPhone 12 (5.4") is 2.69x5.30"
   Body size is 26.67% larger than the iPhone SE
   Screen size is 62.27% larger than the iPhone SE

That is only 1.3% smaller than the iPhone SE 2 released today. This device size is here to stay.

Nition 6 years ago | |

They could fit a 5" screen on the SE form factor if it was edge-to-edge like the iPhone X, or keep the old SE 4" screen, make that edge-to-edge, and make the phone itself even smaller.

Shown to scale: https://imgur.com/OKZiWrN

I'm a bit disappointed but not surprised they took neither of those options for the new SE.

saagarjha 6 years ago | | |

Of course, there’s no way they’re going to call it the iPhone SEX.

randyrand 6 years ago | |

hmm Ive done the math before and I thought if a 5.4" device exisited it would be about halfway between an SE and a 6.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2019/06/27/apple-ne...

rgovostes 6 years ago | | |

Feel free to check my work here: https://gist.github.com/rgov/63f2f6267fd84e78b0e393451a081ad...

I switched to using the iPhone 11 Pro bezel size because both displays are expected to use OLED technology. That would give:

    iPhone 12 (5.4") is 2.64x5.31"
    Body size is 24.68% larger than iPhone SE
    Screen size is 62.27% larger than iPhone SE

Nition 6 years ago |

> The first iPhone SE was a hit with many customers who loved its unique combination of small size, high-end performance and affordable price; the new second-generation iPhone SE builds on that great idea and improves on it in every way.

Customers loved how it was both small and powerful, so we've improved it by making it much larger...[1]

OK, I realise they mean "small compared to the ridiculous size of other phones" here, but I still feel like they've missed the point. They could have had the only truly small and powerful phone on the market in 2020, on any OS! No competitors. They could have even kept the exact same old SE size and had an even bigger screen (5") if they went edge-to-edge.

[1] https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...

foundry27 6 years ago | |

They just don’t get it. This isn’t a replacement for the SE, because it doesn’t actually improve on the things SE owners cared about improving. Things like an edge-to-edge screen and a kick-ass camera in the same form factor, not an iPhone 7 reboot with wireless charging and a faster CPU. What’s more, I know I’m not alone in saying I’d be willing to pay MORE for an ultra-premium small device like that than for any of the iPhone models being pushed as “top of the line” right now, because there are no good alternatives. Unfortunate letdown by the individuals at Apple who put this together, reminds me of the ‘97 Malibu.

ehsankia 6 years ago | | |

Maybe us consumers underestimate how much space those internals take? The larger screen to body ratio would not only take more space in an already tiny phone, but the battery needed to power that would also need to be larger. The old SE had a 1600mAH battery... which is half of the 3000mAh+ even smaller phones have these days, and none of those lasts more than one full day.

So we somehow expect them to take the exact same form factor and somehow magically get a 10% larger screen and 50% larger battery in there? My guess is that it's just not physically possible to achieve that. Big chin and forehead is the best we can get with the current battery technology for a phone that size.

Nition 6 years ago | | |

Totally agree. I'll be keeping my 4" SE for a while yet.

aphextron 6 years ago |

RIP to Apple's single greatest design, the iPhone 5 form factor.

Lammy 6 years ago | |

Maybe you should give an Xperia a shot? https://www.theverge.com/2012/7/26/3189309/apple-sony-iphone...

I'm only halfway joking since looking at their newest handset is still fairly reminiscent with the flat edges: https://www.sony.com/electronics/smartphones/xperia-1m2?cpin...

2ion 6 years ago | | |

And be out of support after 2 years? No thank you. Xperia is overpriced and Sony dropping its expensive phones from support left and right. After 10+ years with Android vendors should've put in the work to support their handsets in a streamlined fashion at least with security/OS core level updates relatively effortlessly. They didn't, Sony sure didn't. Apple is the only vendor with decent support, sadly.

Nition 6 years ago | | |

All the current Xperia phones (even the "compact") are much larger than the 5/SE form factor unfortunately.

ashtonkem 6 years ago | | |

The cost of switching ecosystems is too high for most of us. Loss of iMessage alone is a non starter for me personally.

wyxuan 6 years ago | |

They're considering putting iPhone 5esque body in the newer iPhones if that makes it any better

mrzool 6 years ago | | |

Source?

sn_master 6 years ago |

I use Pixel 4, and I absolutely hate not having a fingerprint sensor.

Cons:

* At night it doesn't work, because I am laying on the bed and half my face is covered.

* It doesn't work when I am not wearing my glasses. Annoying when I have just woken up or going to bed and want to check a quick notification.

* Sometimes it unlocks by itself even if I don't want it to.

For the headphone jack, I got a cheap USB-C ones and couldn't be happier. Bluetooth just doesn't work all the time. It sometimes refuses to pair for random reasons, specially if you paired it with something else, you can never be sure its charged enough, easy to forget it turned on and have the batteries depleted etc etc.

werber 6 years ago |

I haven't felt like Apple has been making products for me recently until the Macbook Air release and now this. Sane price points, and the exact features I need. Not sure what changed over there, but I'm really impressed.

crazygringo 6 years ago | |

I think it's at least partly a very intentional pricing strategy.

Every ~4 years Apple comes out with reasonably priced products for budget customers to be able to buy/upgrade.

The rest of the time they keep prices high so they can make their profit.

Budget customers are willing to wait, people who want the flashy new things aren't.

It's the same thing with premium clothing brands that hold only 2-4 sales a year.

thekyle 6 years ago | |

I'm sure there are many factors. But Jony Ive did recently leave.

werber 6 years ago | | |

I just read his wiki, what influence did he have over pricing? Like, design wise this all seems on brand but it feels like maybe it be a different part of the business for pricing. But, i have no hardware experience or knowledge

proverbialbunny 6 years ago | |

I have a strong suspicion it's come from user surveys, and is tied to data science or analytics.

Sales were down and the butterfly keyboard caused so much complaining it was impossible for Apple to not eventually take note.

If people are complaining and sales are down, the reasonable solution is to listen to your customer. They've done it for every product as of late, like the new Macbook Pro, the new Mac Pro, and while the Apple SE is more a budget project so it may have been inevitable for it to turn out this way, the iPhone 12 is supposed to be smaller, much closer to the iPhone SE.

totalZero 6 years ago | |

It's almost as if a major world event convinced Apple management to optimize their product line for consumers who have less money to spend on devices.

Not sure what could have caused that, though.

Leherenn 6 years ago | | |

It seems unlikely this was the cause though, you don't design and manufacture a phone in 2 months.

Also there had been leaks for months now. See this leak from back in January. https://m.gsmarena.com/updated_iphone_8_might_arrive_with_fa...

graeme 6 years ago | | |

This has been in the works for a year or two at least. Hardware cycles don’t happen in weeks.

dougmwne 6 years ago |

I have to wonder if it's a marketing mistake to call this phone an SE. Most of the people I know who were sticking with the SE did so because they loved the small size and form factor. It seems that offering an upgraded iPhone 8 to those people is going to fall flat.

That said, this looks like a fantastic bargain. One of the best cameras and fastest chips on the market on a $400 phone with years and years of OS support.

And in my own opinion, a 4" screen is obsolete these days because app and mobile web design has moved on to larger devices. 5" is even starting to feel cramped on some apps like Google Maps.

donohoe 6 years ago |

Why couldn't they have kept the flat sides of the 'current' SE... ? That form factor is still the best.

tumaru 6 years ago | |

No doubt cheaper to reuse the existing iPhone 8 chassis. Probably a fair bit cheaper to manufacture at this point too.

naravara 6 years ago | |

The rumor mill suggests the next generation of flagship phones are going to have flat sides. So I'm guessing it's a way to differentiate and present flat edges as denoting "premium." The iPad Pro has flat sides too.

w-m 6 years ago | |

It will come back with the iPhone 12 Pro as the "Pro" form factor, inspired from the iPad Pro. No one will remember the 1st generation SE by then, and everyone will be blown away.

bryanlarsen 6 years ago |

This is not a small phone. It's almost the same size as the Google Pixel 4 which has a 5.7" display.

SE: 5.45" x 2.65" Pixel: 5.79" x 2.71"

avnfish 6 years ago | |

It's not too bad. I'm a huge proponent of the one-handed phone after using a Nexus 5 for 6.5 years. I think there are two main contributors to one-handed usability: (1) volume of the chasis, with a particular focus on width and (2) screen size, with a particular focus on screen height.

In terms of (1), the SE is in line with the Nexus 5 (and actually less wide), whilst the Pixel 4 is slightly bigger in all dimensions:

  N5: 137.9 x 69.2 x 8.6 mm (5.43 x 2.72 x 0.34 in)
  SE: 138.4 x 67.3 x 7.3 mm (5.45 x 2.65 x 0.29 in)

In terms of (2), a 4.7" screen with a 16:9 ratio is far easier to reach the top corners of than on a 5.7" that's 19:9. Yes, there is a bit less bezel on the Pixel 4 but it'll still be very difficult to reach the top one-handed with the taller screen.

Specs source:

[N5] https://www.gsmarena.com/lg_nexus_5-5705.php

[SE] https://www.gsmarena.com/apple_iphone_se_(2020)-10170.php

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

It's not supposed to be one, but both of these are smaller than current flagships.

eqtn 6 years ago | |

This is the design the OG 5/5S owners like me disliked and bought SE later

tazjin 6 years ago |

The old iPhone SE had two things that appealed to me (and anecdotally, that appealed to some of my friends):

1. it was small-ish 2. it had a headphone jack

Without those I don't see this as a viable followup product.

developerdylan 6 years ago | |

It's still viable for most people. Most people will be okay with the included pair of wired headphones.

motge 6 years ago | | |

I use my EarPods with headphone plug on a number of devices. The one with the Lightning connector is only useable with Apple devices, so this is again a vendor lockin. This has to stop.

whitebread 6 years ago | | |

Feels a step too far to assume for most people. I agree with other commenters that the new phone is too big and left wanting due to no headphone jack

m_eiman 6 years ago |

Old iPhone SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

Mass 113 g (4.0 oz)

New iPhone SE:

Height: 5.45 inches (138.4 mm)

Width: 2.65 inches (67.3 mm)

Depth: 0.29 inch (7.3 mm)

Weight: 5.22 ounces (148 grams)

(Copy-pasted from various places on iPad, sorry about inconsistencies)

davidkuhta 6 years ago | |

Thanks for sharing. Did a quick reformat:

  |------------------------------------------------------|
  |  Dimension |        Old         |        New         |
  |------------------------------------------------------|
  |  Height    | 4.87 in (123.8 mm) | 5.45 in (138.4 mm) |
  |  Width     | 2.31 in ( 58.6 mm) | 2.65 in ( 67.3 mm) |
  |  Thickness | 0.30 in (  7.6 mm) | 0.29 in (  7.3 mm) |
  |  Weight    | 4.00 oz (113.0 g)  | 5.22 oz (148.0 g)  |
  |------------------------------------------------------|

corey_moncure 6 years ago | | |

Look it's 300 micrometers thinner!

ryanthered 6 years ago | |

For relative visual comparison: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...

o10449366 6 years ago | |

https://www.phonearena.com/phones/size/Apple-iPhone-SE,Apple...

floatingatoll 6 years ago | |

Relative change, old SE to new SE, in three forms.

Percent — Height +11.8%, Width +14.9%, Depth -4.0%, Mass +31.0%

Metric — Height +14.6mm, Width +8.7mm, Depth -0.3mm, Mass +35g

Imperial — Height +0.58in, Width +0.34in, Depth -0.01in, Mass +1.22oz

egypturnash 6 years ago |

eyes the specs

eyes her 6s and the very nice earbuds that can still plug into it

ponders other things she could do with $400

I miss the Actually Small form factor but I've gotten used to the slightly larger 6s and I sure don't miss it four hundred bucks plus the cost of some bluetooth earbuds and having to hassle with keeping the bluetooth Square reader powered up the next time I sell stuff at a comics con.

I think this is a fine day to buy a new case to replace the one that I got along with the phone. It's been slowly falling apart and I'm worried it might not save the phone the next time I drop it. Twenty bucks for a black Speck and ten bucks for a gold accent Popsocket. Sounds good.

wbond 6 years ago | |

I moved from a 6 to an 8 last fall. The newer processors, especially the jump with the 7, make HUGE performance improvements in every day tasks like loading emails, maps and web pages. I can imagine with this having a few generations newer than the 8 that you’d see even better performance.

It may feel like we’ve reached the point where mobile CPU performance shouldn’t matter, but I notice quite a bit less time spent waiting with the newer phones, which helps in not spending as much time on them.

proverbialbunny 6 years ago | |

You can still use your headphones, unfortunately you just need to get a $10 adapter.

rubatuga 6 years ago | |

You also get tap payments with the Bluetooth square reader which is much more seamless of an experience for the customer.

egypturnash 6 years ago | | |

You are forgetting the seam where it goes to sleep after a while when it’s not being used every few minutes, and needs to be reconnected while the customer is waiting. In a crowded convention hall full of thousands of other vendors doing the same thing.

Oh, and the seam where if you do get it to connect to your phone, you then have both your phone and the customer’s phone fighting to get a connection to a tower saturated by people sharing their con photos/videos, streaming, and trying to process credit card transactions. It’s bad enough with one phone trying to authorize the transaction.

Also the seam where it’s one more damn thing to run out of power when you are at a table with nowhere to plug in because you are not gonna be moving enough stuff to be worth paying a couple hundred extra for the power fees unless you are a small press with the work of a dozen or so creators on your table.

sequoia 6 years ago |

According to this: https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...

This looks like basically the same phone as the 8 & the 6s. I own a 6s, I'm wondering what the advantage is to buying this phone rather than replacing the battery on my current phone.

Hilariously, some of the changes between models seem to be mostly renaming features.

    6s: HDR for photos
     8: Auto HDR for photos
    SE: Next-generation Smart HDR for photos

Looks like this one "goes to 11"

Also funny is battery life:

    SE: Lasts about the same as iPhone 8
     8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7
     7: Lasts up to 2 hours longer than iPhone 6s
    6s: —

So the new SE lasts about the same as two hours longer than "—" Got it!

OberstKrueger 6 years ago | |

The A13 chip will be a huge upgrade and guarantee OS support for quite a while, even if a lot of the other specs are the same. If the 6S manages to survive getting OS updates this year, it probably won't next year.

And Apple usually goes for a target battery life that stays fairly consistent across generations. It creeps up slowly over time, but very slowly.

harunurhan 6 years ago | |

Well, camera is going to be a lot better than 6s, so as the chip. I think overall it's a good upgrade from 6s, but probably I wouldn't go for it to replace my 8.

AnonC 6 years ago | |

> I own a 6s, I'm wondering what the advantage is to buying this phone rather than replacing the battery on my current phone.

Your phone model has already gotten OS updates for about five years since launch. It’s possible that iOS 14 may not support iPhone 6S. If that happens to be the case, then getting a new phone makes sense just to have software support for the next five (or more) years.

nbardy 6 years ago | |

Next generation smart HDR is a big upgrade. The new chip will be able to run the new image processing algorithms based on deep learning which gives you photo quality bump similar to a better camera

mavidser 6 years ago |

I am apparently in the minority here who prefers faceID, mostly because how transparent it is UX-wise. I don't have to do an additional 'Authenticate' press when opening protected apps, instead I pass through the security while the app loading animation completes.

Though, it has been hell now with using face masks for the past few weeks, where I have to spend 5 seconds on every auth-screen, where it tries faceID twice and then gives the option of PIN authentication.

rzimmerman 6 years ago | |

A lot of people complain that Face ID doesn't work when they wear skiing gear or a mask. I'd argue that most humans can't identify me when I wear a mask, so it's a bit hard to expect my phone to do better.

I do prefer Face ID for almost everything except payments. Apple pay with Touch ID was a much better experience. The awkward double tap + stare at my phone for 2 seconds isn't great. Having an Apple Watch makes this much better but I do miss placing my phone near the reader and putting my finger on the sensor.

WildGreenLeave 6 years ago | |

If you tap the screen right away when the face ID icon appears you can enter your PIN right away. I am not sure if this works everywhere, but it does at least work when unlocking your phone.

Found this out when I (recently) went to Asia and was wearing facemasks all the time too. :)

adequateness 6 years ago | |

I haven't tested it but people have had success with adding an "alternative appearance" in the FaceID settings and having it scan your face with half of it covered by a mask. Here is an article with pictures describing the process:

https://9to5mac.com/2020/04/08/iphone-how-to-use-face-id-wit...

moojd 6 years ago | |

FaceID is better than front or in-screen fingerprint readers but I greatly prefer fingerprint readers on the back of the phone. It's right where your finger naturally rests when taking the phone out of your pocket so the phone is unlocked before it even leaves your pocket. Plus you can pull down the notification bar with it one-handed without having to awkwardly stretch to reach it on large devices.

kayoone 6 years ago |

I don't really get the hate for the lack of a headphone jack tbh. Have people complaining about this ever really given good bluetooth headphones a chance? My Beats Solo 3 have fantastic battery life, i can switch between devices with a click of a button (in the case of the Bose QC35 even be connected to two devices at the same time, listening to music on the laptop while being able to receive phone calls on the phone) and the sound quality is absolutely fine. Sure, an audiophile DAC with high end headphones will have better sound quality, but do you really need that on a phone?

Tade0 6 years ago |

One of the biggest advantages of the first gen SE (aside from size) was its sub 120g weight - my SO has one and even with the protective case it's very easy on the hands - especially when lying down and holding it in the air.

The current gen weights almost as much as my Galaxy S8, which is objectively a rather heavy object to be held for extended periods of time.

All in all I was meaning to get her one once it's released, but given the weight of the device that won't happen.

graeme 6 years ago |

Quick comment about sizes and popularity. This is the size of the iPhone 6/6S/7/8 form factor. There are a LOT of iPhone models of this type.

They're bigger than the old SE, but effectively a fair bit smaller than the X/XS/11 Pro format, which has a much larger screen to manage.

So, this phone gives those of us who liked the 8 body size an upgrade path.

David Smith compiled iPhone usage stats for his app. The iPhone 6/6S/7/8 had 47% share. The iPhone 5s/old SE had 11% share. The X/XS/11 Pro size had 12% share. So, this new SE is an extremely common and and popular design.

https://david-smith.org/blog/2019/06/24/the-popularity-of-th...

jgust 6 years ago | |

This is like the Overton window of phone sizes.

Customer: "We like small form factors, like the SE"

Apple: "Here's a 'small' phone, it's the new SE"

Customer: "Didn't you just make the other phones... larger?"

Apple: "No, this is what small means now. Good day to you!"

hrktb 6 years ago | |

I guess you are really comparing screen sizes ?

The physical size of the 8 and this new SE is pretty much the same as the X/11 Pro (it's only smaller 5~6mm in height, 4mm in width, 0.4~8 mm in depth). If you were holding up on your 8 because of that, I'd say you can fork the 1000+ bucks for the X or 11 Pro, it will be an upgrade in every dimension except Touch ID disappearing.

graeme 6 years ago | | |

Yup, screen sizes. The 11 pro form factor has a lot more screen dimensions to cover when using one handed.

It’s also a lot heavier.

gok 6 years ago | |

That is almost a year old though...

graeme 6 years ago | | |

Yeah, but you’d expect the relative proportions to stay the same. There were no new phones released in either form factor.

cdubzzz 6 years ago |

Quick size comparison of the two generations -- https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE&devic...

rawrmaan 6 years ago |

As a son, I am sad that my mom will not get to have her preferred screen size (4") in her next phone.

As a developer, I'm ecstatic that I'll never have to think about supporting a tiny 4" screen again.

lucascantor 6 years ago | |

I’d assume this new SE, like the 6, 6S, 7, and 8 before it, will continue to prompt users during the initial out-of-box setup process if they want to run their display in “zoomed-in” mode, making the resolution effectively identical to the 4” screen of the older smaller phones.

This is effectively an accessibility feature, but Apple proactively prompts users to enable it.

xenonite 6 years ago |

How come that the "white" variant is not "white" on the front side? Like it has always been the case until iPhone 8?

This is a huge disappointment for me. The big reason to have white screen borders is to reduce contrast to light screen backgrounds, which is so much easier on the eyes when reading. And also, white front side is a design classic. Its removal is even a reason for me not to buy the new SE2.

plainOldText 6 years ago | |

I was wondering the same thing. I’m glad I’m not the only one.

Plus, the white front would have made it look much more elegant IMO.

xenonite 6 years ago | | |

I am also glad to hear that. Yes, I totally agree that white is much more elegant.

Maybe this outcome is an effect of Johnathan Ive's departure?

sod 6 years ago | |

Cheaper to mass produce. Same front for all 3 devices.

xenonite 6 years ago | | |

Is "cheaper" now Apple's maxim? Oh well, then it goes downhill...

AdmiralAsshat 6 years ago |

Now why can't we convince Android OEMs that decent specs in a small design is a worthwhile endeavor? The Sony Xperia XZ1 Compact is the last one that comes to mind.

bryanlarsen 6 years ago | |

This is about the same size as a 5.5" Android phone.

tecleandor 6 years ago | |

Seems like the only performant and small (sub 5.5") Android phones are usually Japanese and hard to come by, at least in Europe. I have seen a couple of them which looked great (Kyocera and Sharp, I think) but I don't feel brave enough to order them.

pmontra 6 years ago | |

This is what I was about to say, because I remember the first SE. Then I went checking the specifications and I was a little disappointed

Width: 2.65 inches (67.3 mm)

Height: 5.45 inches (138.4 mm)

Depth: 0.29 inch (7.3 mm)

Weight: 5.22 ounces (148 grams)

This is only a little smaller than my Samsung A40, which is 2.72 x 5.69 x 0.31 in (69.2 x 144.4 x 7.9 mm) and weights less than the SE (4.94 oz - 140 g).

Furthermore the A40 has almost no bezel and this iPhone has a lot of it at the top and bottom of the screen. The screen of the A40 is so large that I wish I could cut a couple of cm off it. It would be large enough, fit better in pockets and weight less.

kbrackbill 6 years ago | |

I currently use the xz2 compact and am happy with it, but I'm not sure what I'll do when it dies.

__warlord__ 6 years ago | |

I'm using the Galaxy 10e and it's fantastic. I like the size, the cameras and the headphone jack :)

aphextron 6 years ago | |

There's plenty of decent small Android phones. The problem is that they run Android.

coldpie 6 years ago | | |

No, there really aren't. Trust me, I spent days researching this and ended up with the Pixel 3A phablet that I hate. There are exactly zero decent Android phones <= 4.7".

matz1 6 years ago | | |

Same thing could be said about iphones, they make decent hardware, the problem is that they run ios.

betaby 6 years ago | | |

Could you please list them? I don't see any modern Android phone of the size iphone 5. All androids are huge, even compared with iphone 8.

XaspR8d 6 years ago | | |

Or that they don't run real Android but some lagging downstream vendor-specific bloatware...

calciphus 6 years ago | | |

Personal preference is not a reason to post unhelpful comments. This isn't reddit.

Edit : typo

eps 6 years ago |

I am a die-hard SE owner, so I guess this is something, but...

Camera is sticking out.

Edges are over-bevelled.

But at least they kept Touch ID.

forgingahead 6 years ago |

Original SE user here (and I have a spare sitting unwrapped on my bookshelf as a backup):

I'm disappointed by the lack of a headphone jack and the size, while better than the phablet nonsense, is still bigger than I would like.

I'm actually not sure what I will do after these phones go kaput, I only use my phone for calls, music, Whatsapp, and maybe maps (though with travel completely halted for the medium term, I don't even need that). If there was a feature phone version of Whatsapp, I'd probably go back to one of those.

snazz 6 years ago | |

WhatsApp runs on KaiOS feature phones, which are marketed to developing countries. Google Maps and YouTube also have official support: https://www.kaiostech.com/explore/apps/

jakear 6 years ago |

Glad to see a non faceID option. I'm on an 11 Pro currently, will probably sidegrade to this.

FaceID is incredibly unreliable in my opinion, and it almost always takes more time that touchID did. Furthermore, "Reachability" (the feature where you slide the UI down for easy access with one hand) is much more difficult to access and dismiss with no home button. It's rare I don't accidentally invoke some UI action when trying to dismiss reachability mode (mistakes include: dialing additional numbers, super-linking on tinder, clicking on links in websites, etc.)

Apple seems to know this, the store workers I spoke with when I was purchasing the phone admitted it was difficult to use.

Is it rose colored glasses, or would old Apple never release products that the Apple Store workers have to tell you are "difficult to use"?

DangerousPie 6 years ago | |

Repeating myself here but for me FaceID actually does feel like an improvement, despite my many doubts about it in the beginning.

Yes there are some occasions where it doesn't work well (when you're trying to unlock the phone without looking at it properly) but there are also many occasions where it works much better. Most of the time my phone now unlocks so smoothly that I don't even realise it was locked. I just take it out of my pocket, swipe up and I'm on my home screen.

Agreed on reachability though, that has never worked well for me either. I just avoid using it now.

jakear 6 years ago | | |

If there were a quick way to switch over to pin input, and furthermore the pin input would constantly be looking for your face rather than needing to switch out of pin mode to try for faceid, it might be okay.

Two situations make faceid unusable:

1. I’m in bed and bedding materials occlude my face.

2. I’m using my hair to purposefully occlude my face in areas with public surveillance

In both of these situations touching the home button would be much easier.

snailmailman 6 years ago | |

I’ve had the opposite experience with Face ID. Touch ID for me worked maybe 1/10 times. Something about my fingers, it would never work. I had to enter the passcode every time. Face ID on the other hand works consistently every time, all the time. I nearly never have issues.

I do miss old reachability though. I can never activate it on the first try.

jakear 6 years ago | | |

My trick for touchid was to register the same finger in as many slots as possible. Also cross between fingers in the same slot. I think this helped decrease the selectivity while still keeping others out.

bythckr 6 years ago |

As an iPhone 5, 5s & SE user; pass, its too big.

Apple still doesn't understand why users like me still stick with iphone SE - the size.

Traster 6 years ago |

80% of the way to a iPhone 11 Pro for 40% of the price.

jaywalk 6 years ago | |

That 80% is arguable. But probably 90%+ of the people buying the SE wouldn't have bought the 11 Pro anyway.

Eliezer 6 years ago |

I care about absolutely none of this except weight, which they're not announcing. What a mockery of a successor to the SE name. I guess I'll hold on to my current SE until that's absolutely untenable and then abandon the iOS platform - really hope there's some more secure Android option by then.

xenonite 6 years ago | |

weight: 148g

ruffrey 6 years ago |

I've been repairing an old iPhone SE for quite a while now, holding out for Apple to listen to customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits in my pocket." This makes me so happy, just like when I held onto a 2015 macbook pro until they went back to a "regular" keyboard.

wool_gather 6 years ago | |

> customers like me saying "I want a decent phone that fits in my pocket."

This new one is exactly the same size as the 6, 7, and 8 that have been available for years...what about it has changed the situation for you?

ruffrey 6 years ago | | |

I guess I missed that. Seeing the 4.7 inch screen spec made me think it was smaller than Apple's other current phones, closer to the original SE.

Original SE:

123.8 mm (4.87 in) H

58.6 mm (2.31 in) W

7.6 mm (0.30 in) D

New 2020 SE:

138.4 mm (5.45 in) H

67.3 mm (2.65 in) W

7.3 mm (0.29 in) D

srg0 6 years ago |

A $300 (EUR500) phone in 2020, and its screen resolution is 750 x 1334 (according to GSMArena, because Apple doesn't mention it). Sadly, that's not enough to watch FullHD videos. An attractive form-factor aside, weird resolution of the lower-tier iPhones (XR, 11, SE 2020) is a non-starter for me.

globular-toast 6 years ago | |

It's a small screen and that's a normal resolution. You need to look at pixel size, not number of pixels. You wouldn't be able to see "full HD" detail on a 4.7" screen.

srg0 6 years ago | | |

I use a 5.1" screen, and I can see the difference very well. I also watch a lot of FullHD screencasts, and while the phone screen is too small to do read everything, most of the text is still readable. The trick is to watch the original 1080p video.

The problem of the in-between resolutions is blurriness introduced by scaling. 1080p content is very common, text rendered to such images is already rasterized to take advantage of that resolution. iPhone has to downscale 1080 lines and to 750 lines, the scaling factor is 0.6944. There is no way that the text will remain sharp and readable. So the text in most videos will not only be a bit smaller (that's physical screen size, 4.7 vs 5.whatever), but it will be blurrier. Low cost 720p screens have the same problem, but at least the scaling coefficient (2/3) allows for sharper result.

The problem is particularly evident with text, but it applies to all minor details

MLpractitioner 6 years ago | |

I just checked in NL, it's far from 500Euros, more 800

dceddia 6 years ago |

I guess the size escalation is just like with cars. It seems "nobody" wants smaller phones or cars, so every time there's a new model they get bigger.

As a person who does actually prefer smaller phones and cars, it's a disappointing trend. "Buy used" or "deal with it", I suppose.

fjni 6 years ago |

The 5/5s/SE form factor is beautiful. Why mess with it? Give me upgraded internals on that and I’ll buy it immediately. It feels a bit like they have to justify to themselves that they’re doing work by proverbially and literally smoothing out the edges until all phones just look alike.

betaby 6 years ago |

Too large. Does anybody know a modern Android phone with the size of the IPhone 5?

cko 6 years ago | |

The smallest one I've found that's usable is Sony Xperia XZ1 compact. It's a late 2017 phone. But it's around the same size.

Apocryphon 6 years ago |

As an iPhone SE user, I am sympathetic to those who miss its screen size. However, as someone who also remembers how desperate the market was for an iPhone with larger real estate around the 5/5S/5C era, and how evolutionary the iPhone 6 was when it came out, I am fine with it being a compromise size.

I also understand that last year’s X-cessively large phones have conditioned users to be resigned towards huge pricy devices, thus making this new SE more dramatic-seeming.

boourns311 6 years ago |

If you're an Android user looking for a small phone, I feel your pain.

I've had one of these for about 6 months and I absolutely love it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KP8J8YN

Disclaimer: I have NO affiliation with this company at all. I'm just a happy user.

Pros:

- built-in rugged case. I've thrown it around the office with no issues

- incredibly small. It fits in the watch pocket (fifth pocket) of your jeans comfortably

- waterproof. Because it fits in my jeans pockets so well, I accidentally washed it with my jeans after a spill. The only piece of clothing in that wash cycle was my jeans, and the phone fell out at some point. It must have banged around in there for 15 minutes; but after the wash was done, I grabbed the phone and unlocked it with my fingerprint. No worries.

- some of the best BT and GPS I've experienced in an Android phone. (And I've owned Nokia, Motorola, and Sony Xperia phones).

- reasonable battery life for a phone of this size

- everyone tells me speakerphone sounds great

Cons:

- the camera is literally a potato. Don't buy this to take photos with.

- good luck typing on this incredibly tiny screen. But instead I use Android's voice-to-text which works great.

I took a chance and it is an absolute marvel.

barbs 6 years ago | |

How often do you have to charge it?

tentboy 6 years ago |

I'm on a three year old iPhone SE that I recently had the battery replaced in (An incredible use of $50 if anyone is fining their phone dying all the time)

I am really tempted to get this. I love the small form factor of my SE but I have large hands and the bigger screen might be a bit nice, and I really wish the camera was bit nicer on my current SE

emerongi 6 years ago | |

The SE is great but my battery is quite bad now and as soon as it gets below room temperature, the battery drops from 50% to 10% and then starts turning off.

Probably will be changing the battery and keeping my current SE, the new one is not the same form factor. Agreed on the camera.

tentboy 6 years ago | | |

Yep thats what happened with mine. i sent it back to Apple and had the battery replaced. I tried to make an appointment at the apple store but it said it wasn't available, maybe they don't have the parts for them in store.

Truly a night and day difference. When I leave for the day I don't have to think about bringing my charger (although I still do sometimes in case of an emergency)

alkonaut 6 years ago |

I really wanted a phone with a current top level camera, and a reasonably quick cpu as in a modern iPhone or Android. I consider the iphone7/8 to be almost too big for one handed use, but it's it's worth it as a tradeoff for the improved readability. The problems with the iphone7/8 size is mostly poor legacy UX (Nothing should have to be clicked in basic, navigation above the middle of the screen!).

I basically had to upgrade from iPhone7 to iPhone11 to get a good camera in an iPhone. The 11 is a phone that is both much larger and much more expensive than I would like. So if the camera on this is as good as the main iPhone 11 camera, I would definnitely have gone for this one instead, had it been available 6 months ago.

This is apple cannibalizing their own iPhone11 sales, a lot I think

osel 6 years ago |

This is just an iPhone 8 mk II (it even fits 8 cases!), and that means those of us who want an actual SE replacement are now out of luck. Rather disappointing.

buzzy_hacker 6 years ago |

Devastated they increased the size, but saw it coming. It’s the same as an iPhone 8, which is too big.

therealdrag0 6 years ago | |

I loved the SE, but now am on an 8 after it broke. TBH I adjusted pretty quickly. It is a bit unstable to hold at times, but I rarely notice it. And just as often I wish I had more screen real-estate such as to fit a PDF on screen. :shrug: trade-offs.

newsrss 6 years ago |

They rereleased the iPhone 6. What's there to be excited about?

This has nothing on the original SE.

ollien 6 years ago | |

It has upgraded internals, no? So it's the iPhone 6 with some beefier insides, just like the original SE.

But yes, it has nothing on the original SE, since it has the same size as the iPhone 8...

demarq 6 years ago |

This is pretty much a flagship at below mid range price. It's like One Plus and Apple just switched sides on this one.

green-bottle 6 years ago |

Due to the planned obsolescence (via stoppage of security updates) of Android phones within 2 years I had been seriously been considering buying an iPhone SE2.

But I can't really justify myself buying it at the hefty price tag of $555 in India. (The extra $155 being added due to the high custom duties on imports in India.)

Salaries (at least for software developers) here being 1/4th of that of US developer salaries or lesser makes even the $400 price in US not quite easy to digest.

It seems I will be stuck with buying an Android One phone instead.

AnonC 6 years ago | |

Whenever the COVID-19 travel bans are eased in different countries, you could ask someone to get it for you from the US (if you know someone, which may be an impediment). This phone is also sold in the US in an unlocked variant that can be used with any carrier.

kohtatsu 6 years ago |

For anyone on the fence about trusting Apple's sell on privacy, I urge you to check out these pages;

https://apple.com/privacy this isn't the Privacy Policy, just a very high level overview of investments/innovations (ETA 20-60 seconds)

https://apple.com/privacy/features deeper dive, no cute graphics, links to papers (3+ minutes)

They really, really messed up by not being upfront with Siri's contractors, and they are not taking a hard stance on E2E iCloud Photos/Backups.

You can back up yourself using the native encrypted backup format using the CLI on Linux/Windows/macOS using https://libimobiledevive.org idevicebackup2

Using ifuse from them too you can read the SQLite database the Photos app uses, see things like the on-device processed metadata (including recognized faces, tho obviously not the face data from FaceID).

Using this I made a script to only transfer only favourited photos for my girlfriend; https://gist.github.com/aurorabbit/592bbc76df317f86c1a6ef64c... (will work on linux too, surely Windows but idk powershell)

/info dump

nicwolff 6 years ago |

Just a reminder that the terrific old 4" iPhone SE is still available refurbished on Amazon for about $100. Runs the current OS and all apps. Camera sucks by modern standards.

rchaud 6 years ago |

The most interesting aspect of the phone for me is that it looks to have the 16:9 ratio that's been abandoned industry-wide for 19:9, which I find to be extremely narrow.

I'm still holding on to my 4-year old Galaxy S7 because it's 5-inch, 16:9 display is just the right size. I have a newer 19:9 phone and even with fairly large man-hands, I struggle to reach the corners of the screen with my thumb, which is where most menu items are located.

petilon 6 years ago |

You can get iPhone 6s for $100 from cellular carriers such as AT&T: https://www.att.com/buy/prepaid-phones/browse/apple/

I am sure the new iPhone SE has more advanced everything but if you're just using it for text messages, occasional photo and Whatsapp you'll hardly notice any difference.

Invictus0 6 years ago | |

What about 3 years from now? It doesn't make sense to stick with the 6s for much longer, and I'm speaking as a current 6s user.

petilon 6 years ago | | |

I am currently using the original iPhone SE and for my purposes it works just fine. I use it for texting, Google Maps, checking stock prices, occasional photo/movie, email, WhatsApp, bank apps, NYTimes app, Apple Pay. I had the battery replaced last year and plan to use it for the next 3 years or until Apple adds a compelling new feature to the iPhone (which they haven't for several years). I dislike the newer iPhones because they are too big to be comfortable in my jeans pocket.

jclardy 6 years ago |

A lot of people are looking at this as a "replacement" for the iPhone SE (original) - but I don't think that is what this is. It is the "upgrade" that iPhone 6/6s/7 users have been waiting for. People that don't want the relatively huge iPhone XR/11 (3/4" taller and 1/2" wider) and don't want to spend $1k on the more reasonably sized iPhone 11 Pro.

kdtsh 6 years ago |

People will get it or they won’t, the HN crowd is probably a fairly small demographic compared to who Apple is trying to gear this towards: people who want an affordable, new iPhone.

For my part (SE user of 2 years, and before that a 5s user), this fits my needs pretty well, and it’s got the latest hardware. The lack of a headphone jack was always going to happen, that’s just the way of the world and nothing will change it - and realistically, carrying around a dongle really isn’t a big deal if you’re going to be carrying around your phone and earphones anyway, it’s just another small piece to keep attached to your earphones on a semi-permanent basis. The 5s form factor would have been cool too, but that was also never going to happen, because the SE is released in no small part because there is a surplus of X device (previously 5s, now 8) and they need to move old stock.

I’ll hang onto my SE until iOS 14 comes out, then I’ll get a refurbished SE 2. I might be able to get away with getting an almost-new iPhone released this year for around AU$600, that would be cool.

SECProto 6 years ago | |

> The lack of a headphone jack was always going to happen, that’s just the way of the world and nothing will change it

I just got a Galaxy s10e which has both a headphone jack and an SD card slot. I choose to purchase phones that have the things I need in a phone.

(If I were committed to the apple ecosystem, I'd get one of these new SEs because of the smaller form factor and lower price.)

kdtsh 6 years ago | | |

What I mean is that new phones which have a headphone jack are the exception rather than the norm, and their number seems to be diminishing. Maybe if people voted with their wallets it would stop the development in this direction, but it seems like too few people are concerned with this issue (I’m one of them - it’s just not going to turn me off a potential phone).

jventura 6 years ago |

No headphone jack and form factor > 4" it's a no-go for me..

I'm still on the 5S, my next one will be a SE 1 when my 5S blows up..

mleonhard 6 years ago |

Apple's side-by-side comparison shows that their new phone is essentially an iPhone 8 with a newer CPU.

https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...

adtac 6 years ago | |

iPhone 8: Lasts about the same as iPhone 7

iPhone SE (2nd gen): Lasts about the same as iPhone 8

Hahaha

julian_digital 6 years ago |

Fingerprint Sensor = works with covid masks!

philsnow 6 years ago | |

But not covid gloves ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

hrktb 6 years ago | | |

My 6S works surprisingly well with thin transparent gloves. They're white color, but it seems they're thin enough to expose the ridges.

l31g 6 years ago |

Better camera than the iPhone 8, supposedly same as the XR [0]

[0] https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/15/21222104/iphone-se-2-came...

vansteen 6 years ago |

That's not really the SE I have in mind. My old SE has a 4" screen and the weight is around 100g ...

jimbob45 6 years ago |

No headphone jack?

judge2020 6 years ago | |

Nope: https://www.apple.com/iphone-se/specs/

Niccizero 6 years ago |

Being a long-time Android user (not a fan, though) This is the first iPhone I'd actually buy. I'm tired of huge phones with no bezels, they're not usable. They are a pain in the ass, they are a literally a pain in your hand to use. I halso ahte the notch with passsion.

cletus 6 years ago |

So at my previous employer I kept separate work and personal phones. At my current employer I decided I wasn't going to do that. Who wants to carry two phones? Or pay for a personal service you barely use?

I'm fortunate enough that my work phone is (now) an iPhone 11 Pro. I routinely go to Australia for extended periods and need a phone there. For years (>5) I used the last personal phone I bought myself, the iPhone 6S, which was still doing quite well since ~2 years ago it had a free battery replacement.

But I finally decided to upgrade this. I like the 11 Pro (particularly the cameras) but I find the narrower screen a little annoying (compared to the previous work phone, the iPhone 7 Plus).

But damn phones are expensive now. I couldn't justify the almost $2000 for an iPhone 11 Pro Max and decided to spend "only" half that on an iPhone 11 instead. It lacks one of the cameras but it has a bigger screen than the 11. I really see no reason to spend the huge extra on the 11 Pro or Pro Max.

But by God do I hate Face ID (even more so on my iPad). It's horrible. Apple says the false positive rate on Touch ID was too high. I say the false negative rate on Face ID is too high and this is incredibly frustrating. Worse, Apple tries to make it more secure by forcing policies on you like 5 failed attempts means it asks for a passcode. Failed attempts include passive fails where you just haven't positioned the phone right.

I think Apple just got rid of Touch ID to have more screen area, honestly. That's not such a bad thing but what I'd give for an iPhone that had a fingerprint sensor on the back (like the Samsung Galaxy S9 did, which I also briefly used).

So the presence of Touch ID makes me almost want to buy one of these but I can't go back screen size wise. As an aside, I am tempted to get rid of my iPad Pro and replace it with the newer (non-Pro) iPad because those still do have Touch ID.

This really is an updated iPhone 8 with a modern CPU. It seems like a pretty good deal to me.

But please, Apple, give me a Touch ID option.

woah 6 years ago |

Does anyone know if it includes ARKit? https://developer.apple.com/documentation/arkit/tracking_and...

dcoupl 6 years ago | |

Looks like it does support ARKit, source: https://www.apple.com/ios/augmented-reality/ (bottom of the page)

Lio 6 years ago |

Not really a big fan of the Lightning connector.

IMHO it’s a poor design.

The socket on this iPhone 6S+ is wearing out because the springs are in the device and not the cable. It’s hit and miss if the phone charges now.

(I keep it still because I want an iPhone with a 3.5mm headphone socket).

crazygringo 6 years ago | |

Well it's got wireless charging now so many people will essentially never use the Lightning connector ever.

Lio 6 years ago | | |

It's slow though and somewhat inefficient compared to fast wired charging.

I really wish they would just upgrade the Lightning connector to the industry standard USB-C port that Apple thankfully use on everything else.

randyrand 6 years ago | | |

Can you use the phone while wireless charging? I often don't charge at night.

jp0d 6 years ago |

I'm still using an iPhone 8. It's been great and I wasn't looking for a replacement yet. However, it's nice to know that I can get one in the same size. I don't want a big phone. I was reading through some of the threads and found some arguments about Android. I'm a poweruser myself. I was on Android for a long time. I've used both mid range and high end Androids. All of them have died after 2 years max after slowing down terribly. Finally switched to the iPhone 8, two years ago and couldn't have been happier. I still have an old iPhone 5s that works like a charm.

gnicholas 6 years ago |

Bummer that this has the slippery rounded edges that started with the 6. My guess is that they're doing this because the iPhone 12 is rumored to return to more rectangular edges, and they want it to be visually distinct.

chaorace 6 years ago |

$399 iPhone? Weird! I always thought Apple stayed out of that pricerange to keep the iPhone line a "prestige" purchase (especially given how little time the "c" lasted for). I suppose that's why this model has such an iPod-esque visual design, so that outside observers don't misconstrue the people using these with their "luxury" users.

It's good to see more downward pressure coming from flagship phones lately, imo. It's a great analog to the Pixel "a" models and an overall smartphone trend that I'm very positive about!

slimginz 6 years ago | |

The iPhone 5C, my guess, was Apple's experiment with having a cheaper end phone and seeing how the market would react to that. With the original SE, they probably had a ton of left over iPhone 5 shells so they chose that because it just made sense to use them. My guess is this is the same reason why the new SE has the shell from the 7/8. This also helps Apple cut down on price since they don't have to create new molds or re-engineer the interior much, which is probably how Apple is convincing themselves that they can still make their expected margins with a $399 price tag.

Traster 6 years ago | |

Apple is shifting to a service revenue model with things like Apple TV+. I suspect they're realizing that to reproduce their iTunes monopoly they're going to need iPhones to be as ubiquitous as iPods.

wyldfire 6 years ago | |

> It's a great analog to the Pixel "a" models

I think it's a direct response to that pressure.

If GOOG designs Pixels w/Exynos chips (per recent rumors), they'll likely be cheaper than the Snapdragon ones. That will put even more downward pressure on these prices.

kick 6 years ago | |

The first SE was $399 as well, and that was years ago.

qnxub 6 years ago |

As current user of a Moto E5 Play, this is the first iPhone that I've been tempted to purchase. It delivers a lot of value at a reasonable price. As penny-pinching consumer, I've started thinking about device longevity. This phone will certainly be supported longer than any Android. However, my current phone still works, even if the camera is bad and it can be quite slow at times. I can't justify purchasing a new device, especially one that was probably constructed with unethical labor.

aarpmcgee 6 years ago | |

Yup. I had to get off the hedonic treadmill of phone upgrades. The dopamine isn't worth it.

grwthckrmstr 6 years ago |

Is it weird that we're in 2020 and I still keep assuming that phones have a headphone jack by default... Until I check the spec sheet and realise there's no headphone jack :(

bitL 6 years ago |

Hooray, no notch! The only recent iPhone that is not ugly right now.

davidcollantes 6 years ago | |

It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge. I will take the notch any day, if that eliminates the top and bottom blocks.

whywhywhywhy 6 years ago | | |

> It doesn't have a notch, but the screen doesn't go edge to edge

Neither does the iPhone 11/Pro they have a very chunky bezel. I was shocked how clunky it actually looks when mine arrived.

jyriand 6 years ago |

I own iPhone SE and let's be honest, this phone is designed for people living in warm climate, not someone living in nordic countries. If it's around zero degrees celius or less, then you better not take your phone out of your pocket. The battery will uncharge and phone will shut off(sometimes in matter of minutes). I thought there was something wrong with my iPhone, but it turns out the battery can't stand the cold.

-- edit Otherwise I love iPhone SE. It's almost perfect.

biztos 6 years ago |

I use an iPhone SE and an iPhone 8 -- I got the 8 only because the SE's microphone crapped out. I was thinking of buying an 11 Pro, but now I think I'll buy the 2020 SE instead because it's smaller and has the A13.

(I was hoping against hope they'd use the old SE form factor, but I can understand why they don't.)

I wonder how much the new SE will cannibalize sales of the 11's, for customers who aren't price-sensitive but are size-sensitive?

umanwizard 6 years ago |

Is it known how much RAM this has?

dwaltrip 6 years ago | |

Seconded! I was utterly baffled that Apple doesn't include the RAM in the tech specs.

sturza 6 years ago | |

4gb

umanwizard 6 years ago | | |

Is there a source for that? Can't find it anywhere.

jotm 6 years ago |

I actually like the "borders" on top and bottom, makes it easier to hold and use the phone.

That said, Apple is really taking the piss with these displays. Just like the iPhone 11, not only is the resolution laughable (Apple used to be a leader here, what happened?) but it's also IPS LCD, which uses more power and has worse viewing angles and colors.

OLEDs are excellent and competitors at this price point have them, so why not Apple?

epaulson 6 years ago |

Is there any word on the screen material? I have a Pixel 3a that for the most part I really like, but one of the ways I think they got the price down was by using a glass that was much less scratch-resistant. My original Pixel never scratched, the 3a is scuff up badly after just 6 months. My iPhone 7 is a couple of years old and also has no scratches, so I'm hoping for a similarly scratch-resistant screen.

tambourine_man 6 years ago |

4" size is truly dead then. What a shame.

I think we'll look at these comically large phones in the future like we look Gordon Gekko's phone today.

lifeisstillgood 6 years ago |

Honestly as a parent of three children barrelling towards teen-dom cheaper iphones available and supported for the next few years sounds great.

starpilot 6 years ago |

Wow, currently a single thread:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22878765

occupies the entire first page of these comments, with 367 replies. Is this optimal?

Edit: looks like this has fixed/modified, some of the replies have been broken out into top-level threads. Might be time for auto-collapsing of replies like Reddit.

trboyden 6 years ago |

I got my iPhone SE (iPhone 7) on Amazon for $150 a couple months ago... It sadly replaced my (real) iPhone SE that took a dip in a pool.

novok 6 years ago |

They could of done so much more than slap an A13 into an iPhone 8. I guess it was about that the last time although, throwing a newer processor into an iPhone 5.

At the very least they could of done touch ID on the back and make it a hole punch display with a smaller form factor, but that would probably have battery issues from the smaller footprint.

technotarek 6 years ago |

I didn’t buy the SE because it was cheaper. I bought it because it had the best balance between performance and form factor.

adreamingsoul 6 years ago |

I love the size of my iPhone SE. Every time my partner uses my phone, they always mention how nice and compact the size is.

gonehome 6 years ago |

I love the iPhone 5 design - I wish they could have put a full screen Face ID display into that frame.

Maybe it wasn't possible with the space constraints, or maybe it would have been too expensive - but a premium small phone like that would have been really cool.

The iPhone 8 is probably my least favorite of all iPhone designs except for the 3G.

colinprince 6 years ago |

I see this supports Quicktake video[0] when in Photo mode. Kinda useful, but how do you take bursts now?

0. https://support.apple.com/en-ca/guide/iphone/iph61f49e4bb/io...

DeathArrow 6 years ago |

I newer owned an iPhone and I'm not interested in iOS much, but $400 for a phone with Apple A13 CPU is very tempting.

I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable CPUs.

Paying 1000 euros on a phone and having a twice as weak CPU as an similar priced iPhone is not a nice sentiment for an Android user.

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

> I don't understand why other ARM CPU makers don't come up with comparable CPUs.

This is like asking why other rocket companies don't just build rockets this year that are reusable like SpaceX's.

Apple's CPUs are so fast because they have the best internal engineering team on earth paired with the best Fab (TSMC 7nm) money can buy. They buy out the entire production run from that Fab. These CPUs are the most advanced and best designed in the world because they worked so hard to get here years ago.

It's like asking why other runners don't just run as a fast as Usain Bolt.

throw_m239339 6 years ago |

What is that app displayed here?

https://www.apple.com/newsroom/images/product/iphone/standar...

_venkatasg 6 years ago | |

Probably Reality Composer

https://apps.apple.com/app/reality-composer/id1462358802

ibdf 6 years ago |

I have the latest iphone, but only because I switched carriers and got a good deal. FaceID is fine, but touch ID was way way better... but why don't they put it on the back of the phone like Android phones do? It's so much easier to use it and then you don't have those huge bezels.

doanerock 6 years ago |

Why does it have the same name as a previously released phone? That is so confusing. Why not iPhone SE2

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

Ask the iPad Pro. Or 13 inch MacBook Pro. or Airpods.

You'll see it referred to by 'iPhone SE (2020)'

saagarjha 6 years ago | | |

It’s actually “iPhone SE (2nd generation)”.

DylanBohlender 6 years ago |

Is there any confirmation that this phone will/won't support 5G? It seems to be omitted in the marketing materials.

While multiple years of OS support would be nice in this form factor, not being able to use 5G data would be a big negative in terms of this being "futureproofed".

coder543 6 years ago | |

The new iPhone SE definitely doesn’t have any 5G.

5G is extremely overrated. LTE is easily capable of 200Mbps. I’ve personally seen it... but very few people have. Have you? (relevant link that demonstrates over 500Mbps on LTE: https://www.iphoneincanada.ca/news/iphone-11-pro-max-lte-spe...)

Until our towers have enough network backhaul to consistently max out LTE to a phone when that phone needs it, 5G has exactly one benefit: less signal congestion at major sporting / concert events with high densities of people. The carriers would say “marketing” is another benefit, probably.

Just having 5G won’t make the internet any faster in most situations, since the towers are backhaul limited... they aren’t limited by LTE.

Even 200Mbps is more than enough for 99% of people's phones for the next 5 years, especially since that's like double the average home internet speed in the US. The 537Mbps seen in the article I linked to is just excessive by today's standards... and that just requires current LTE.

“5G” also refers to two completely different technologies, which most people probably don’t realize. One of them doesn’t even seem very different from LTE, and the other requires towers for almost every single city block.

LoSboccacc 6 years ago |

I really want to jump back into iPhones and prepared to sustain another painful migration back into ios, but not with no guarantees I'll have a product refresh in the coming years; I've been forced out of the ecosystem once and I'm not going to get burned twice.

gigatexal 6 years ago |

That’s a whole lot of hardware for 399. Android handset makers are likely going to be upset with Apple moving downmarket with a chip that will run circles around what they have to offer.

Honestly I should have gotten one of these instead of my 11 pro. My 11 pro is just too much phone.

fataliss 6 years ago |

Looks clean. Wonder if that means the array of sensors needed for AR/Face id is still that expensive to make that they can't add it to their $400 phone. You'd think that by now after having multiple gens of flagship phones using it cost would be low...

villgax 6 years ago |

What's with the design, should have gone flat edges & slimmer bezels & in display fingerprint. From experience of 5 year old 5S, TouchID just doesn't work with little sweat or dust. In display readers on other phones just work so amazingly

erickhill 6 years ago |

I realized recently that Face ID is useless when I'm out and about because of face masks.

ct520 6 years ago |

I feel in good company. Here I thought I was the only one who longed-for the smaller iphone.

markphip 6 years ago |

I am still holding out hope for a 4.7" phone that is all screen and supports Face ID. Maybe the next iPhone SE in 4 more years will be that phone.

I imagine they could not produce that phone at this price point .. which is quite good for what you are getting.

ComputerGuru 6 years ago |

Tangential: the scroll performance on hardware-accelerated Chrome for the landing page is absolutely atrocious on a Xeon v6 running past full frequency (3.6GHz, so not in energy-saving mode). I would have expected better of Apple. \shrug\

winrid 6 years ago | |

Site feels great on my 2017 One Plus.

What graphics card do you have? Are you sure the correct drivers are installed...?

b3kart 6 years ago | |

Apple web dev: It’s butter-smooth on my maxed-out Mac Pro, what are you on about? /s

BigBalli 6 years ago |

Another current SE user here. I've been waiting for this since rumors started 6+ months ago.

I was hoping they were going to keep the same screen size but think I'll upgrade anyways. Figure I will need to eventually and this has a solid tech bump-up.

testerhn 6 years ago |

https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphone8&device...

commenterhn 6 years ago |

https://www.apple.com/iphone/compare/?device1=iphoneSE2ndgen...

ryanmjacobs 6 years ago |

Awesome! I love my SE. A smartphone that doesn't try to be a full-fledged tablet computer (size-wise and spec-wise). $400 is what I paid for my original SE, so this isn't bad. Gonna miss the 3.5mm plug in though.

tartrate 6 years ago |

"Best Single-Camera System in an iPhone"

Is there another iPhone with a single-camera system? Otherwise it just sounds like they had 0 other good things to say about it.

Soon we're down to "the newest iPhone ever released so far".

333c 6 years ago | |

There are certainly all the previous iPhones that had just one (back-facing) camera. I suppose they're saying that it's better than all of those. Every year they say that the new phone is the "best iPhone ever," which I suppose is true but isn't a very strong statement.

Edit: Actually, the iPhone XR has just one camera: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-xr

basejumping 6 years ago |

Is the frame made of aluminium or glass? I can't find it mentioned anywhere.

wffurr 6 years ago | |

Glass front and back, aluminum edges.

shoes_for_thee 6 years ago |

Why tho?

I have an old iPhone SE. It is small enough that I don't even notice it in my pocket. It does everything I want it to do very well and is actually very responsive.

Also it is about $60 bucks on ebay. I have no compelling reason to switch.

crazygringo 6 years ago | |

I assume no more iOS updates are coming for the SE. Pretty soon your apps won't upgrade, and won't talk to the app servers, and you can't install new apps.

So you don't have a compelling reason to switch now... but in a year or so you unfortunately will. It's what happened to me with my iPhone 5. :(

saagarjha 6 years ago | | |

It might get iOS 14.

dzonga 6 years ago |

I have the 1st gen SE and a pixel 3a. pixel 3a screen currently shuttered. But will gladly switch back to 2nd gen SE if they let me run Firefox on that thing. I will compromise on a headphone jack n get an mp3 player

tradesmanhelix 6 years ago | |

Firefox for iOS has been out for quite a while: https://apps.apple.com/us/app/firefox-private-safe-browser/i.... Unless I'm missing something?

dzonga 6 years ago | | |

firefox, using the firefox engine. not being a simple wrapper around webkit.

imharvey 6 years ago |

Lets use all the spare parts of iPhone 8 and call it iPhone SE gen 2. I get the concept but it would have been nice with a iPhone XR design but in the size of the original iPhone SE. $399 is still reasonable.

samename 6 years ago |

The Dual SIM with eSIM is a nice touch - is this the first iPhone to get it?

bdcravens 6 years ago | |

No, it was introduced in the iPhone XS/XS Max.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT209044

jiveturkey 6 years ago | |

bam. that's the feature i need to upgrade my 8.

but iOS still needs profiles. i'm really surprised they haven't done this yet. i wonder if google has patents that make this too expensive (or impossible) to do on iOS.

kissiel 6 years ago | |

Nope. XS, XSMax, XR, 11 and 11 pros all have that.

thereyougo 6 years ago |

As much as I love apple products (I'm using mac and iPhone for years) I do think that the spark in their innovation is slowly fading. I can't remember the last time they 'Wow'ed me.

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

This is a budget device which is code for 'old iphone, new internals'

Probably just not the release you need to be wowed, they did this before.

RileyJames 6 years ago |

Have been considering a replacement for my 6S, this looks like the ticket.

Is there an adaptor / dongle that can enable charging while using a headset?

I’ve seen the lighting to audio dongles. Is there a lightning to lighting+audio?

1123581321 6 years ago | |

Yes, there are lightning to 3.5mm audio adapters. It will also come with lightning port EarPods you could use.

Aissen 6 years ago |

Yesterday in their keynote, Oneplus dared to call the new Oneplus 8 "compact" with its 6.55" screen. Although to be fair it has a much better screen-to-body ratio than the SE.

adequateness 6 years ago | |

It ~12% more compact than the OnePlus 8 Pro.

Aissen 6 years ago | | |

That's one way to look at it I guess :-) (note: I personally think content should be the focus of a smartphone, so the screen should be as big as physically possible; 6.7" is my current limit though).

sangd 6 years ago |

The reasons I bought my SE were:

1. being small 2. powerful as the iPhone 6s.

I'm quite disappointed with this. I wish they could have kept the same size and increases the dpi with a big larger screen.

findthewords 6 years ago |

The features on offer here for the price sre surprisingly good from Apple.

The big phone/small phone argument will be silly in a couple of years when we all have folding phones.

cmarschner 6 years ago |

This could be the perfect phone. If it had a headphone jack.

Kye 6 years ago |

I'm definitely getting one in (PRODUCT)RED.

Jokes about editing goofs aside, this will probably replace my iPhone 6S Plus in a couple of years once it's even cheaper.

alliao 6 years ago |

COVID-19 edition! can't tell you how many times I'm annoyed by having to tap in passwords like it's goddamn 2012! (coz i'm wearing a mask)

amatecha 6 years ago |

Huh this is interesting. It looks totally indiscernible from the iPhone 8 I'm using now. I guess it's got a better processor though, at least :)

incanus77 6 years ago |

I'm a longtime Mac & iOS developer (15+ years) and I still have an iPhone SE. The only thing I care about is the size. Won't be upgrading.

benbristow 6 years ago |

No 5G support seems a bummer (can't see any mention it on the page). DOA for me for that fact alone. Hoping the new iPhones in September have it.

coder543 6 years ago | |

See my comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22879752

There are plenty of reasons to dislike the new iPhone SE, but I don't think lack of 5G should be one.

benbristow 6 years ago | | |

4G around the UK is pretty grim. I struggle to get any signal in the centre of Glasgow, especially around the Central train station. Even on 3G. Anything that helps is welcome.

yumraj 6 years ago | |

I'm actually happy that is has no 5G, and may buy it just for that.

benbristow 6 years ago | | |

Fair enough, but why would you be happy to not have the latest tech?

Markoff 6 years ago |

come on, that's just lazy, what would happen if they would make at least the top bezel smaller and expand the display together with higher resolution? so much wasted space

it's nice someone produce 4.7" phone, but it could be either smaller with such outdated low res display or display could be bigger in same body

this just seem like they have big stock of old displays and phone bodies they still need to dump

generalpass 6 years ago |

Looks like the camera sticks out from the back a little, which is one of the features not present on 5S and previous SE, and I liked it that way.

alkonaut 6 years ago |

Wow this is pretty aggressively priced. It’s very unlike Apple to self-compete like this. It looks like this will eat into the iPhone 11 sales.

ryanSrich 6 years ago |

Touch ID alone is enough for me to consider downgrading from my iPhone 11. FaceID is one of the worst features Apple has ever released imo.

judge2020 6 years ago |

Looks like it doesn't come with the ultra wideband/UWB U1 chip, so this might impact future "AirTags" compatibility.

maxpert 6 years ago |

So OnePlus released an expensive phone and Apple released a good cheaper phone. This COVID-19 surely has flipped the world upside down.

gnicholas 6 years ago |

Apparently cases made for the iPhone 8 will fit the new SE. That's great for case manufacturers, and also good for consumers.

symlinkk 6 years ago |

I don’t think I could go back to not having FaceID and having a physical home button. The size and the price is perfect though.

classics2 6 years ago |

So disappointing. No headphone jack is a no go.

vondur 6 years ago |

Well, I was hoping for a large phone with the fingerprint reader back. I don't care for FaceID. This is a great phone.

bruwozniak 6 years ago |

Last 2 days: an iPhone with flagship CPU is at the 400$ price point, meanwhile OnePlus releases a 900$ device. How ironic.

scop 6 years ago |

I wonder how much of the form factor was determined by:

(a) space required by newer components (b) leftover (i.e. unsold) iPhone 8 materials

fouc 6 years ago |

iPhone SE is the form factor of iPhone 5s, the last phone in the previous generation before iPhone 6/7/etc.

iPhone SE 2 is the form factor of iPhone 8, the last phone in the previous generation before iPhone X/11/etc.

iPhone SE2 is only a tiny bit smaller than the iPhone X or iPhone 11 Pro. Less than a half a centimeter in height and width.

projektfu 6 years ago |

I'll wait until I hear reports of thumb-usability before buying, but if it checks out, I'll probably upgrade.

soapdog 6 years ago |

in all this talk about form-factor and sizes, the two most comfortable phones I ever used, in terms of their physical feel in my hand, were the palm pre2 and pre3. They felt like a little river pebble that was warm to the touch. I wish companies would go back to small phones that feel good in your hand.

coding123 6 years ago |

This is the price point that will change the apple Android dynamic forever. Good timing with the gov checks too.

musicale 6 years ago |

Let's not talk about the new iPhone and instead argue the merits of iOS vs. Android vs. Windows Phone. ;-)

polygot 6 years ago |

Does anyone else get severe graphical corruption on Windows 10 using google chrome while scrolling that page?

electriclove 6 years ago |

Fantastic specs for a fantastic price! I wonder what effect this will have on the other mobile manufacturers.

howzen 6 years ago |

Do any of you feel that the struggle of current times places our obsession with technology into perspective?

dakiol 6 years ago |

I don't get it. It's over 520 USD in Germany (479 EUR). Is this supposed to be an SE edition?

Nextgrid 6 years ago |

Too bad the gold color option is gone.

rosstex 6 years ago | |

Rose gold for me! But I might have to settle.

KozmoNau7 6 years ago |

Still no proper Firefox with proper browser extensions/add-ons, still no interest in iOS devices.

kabacha 6 years ago |

I never understood hype behind this phone. On paper it seems like april fools joke. Single camera, absurd screen-to-body ratio and all of the things from 2010 in 2020.

None of you bought s10e which is a brilliant phone yet you whine that no small phones are available - maybe you should vote with your wallet or just admit that you're in it for the nostalgia and drop the facade.

raydev 6 years ago | |

> Single camera

Most people only use one camera. The SE is also $399.

> absurd screen-to-body ratio

Some people really dislike the edge-to-edge screen of the newer iPhone models

> all of the things from 2010 in 2020

This is literally one of the fastest phones on the market and it's only $399. Did you live in an alternate reality 2010?

kabacha 6 years ago | | |

Samsung s10e is like 300$ these days - has wide-angle camera and almost full body screen for the same phone size and has been released a year ago.

> literally one of the fastest phones

where are you getting that? What an absurd statement to make.

wavesquid 6 years ago | |

I bought an S10e on launch. It was too large for me and when it got stolen a couple months after I had it, I just didn't replace it. Have now been phone-less for almost a year, waiting for a good sub-5 inch android phone.

yoelo 6 years ago |

I was looking forward to this phone but will not buy as it doesn't not have a 3.5mm jack

l31g 6 years ago |

Compared to iPhone 8: + New processor + WiFi 6 + Dual SIM + possibly upgraded RAM

mpweiher 6 years ago |

This is the anti-SE.

The SE was small and premium. This is big and low-end (well, Apple low-end).

otikik 6 years ago |

> black, white and (PRODUCT)RED

This non-uniform nomenclature is hurting my programmer brain.

ubertoop 6 years ago |

I'll be upgrading my iPhone 5s to this!

Yes, I held out THIS long for a small form factor.

shepardrtc 6 years ago |

This looks almost exactly like an iPhone 6... The measurements are the same.

whalesalad 6 years ago |

Apple stock is going to go bananas. Wall Street is going to love this.

minimaxir 6 years ago | |

I dunno; Wall Street loves ARPU, and this might bring it down a bit.

fajarsiddiqfs 6 years ago |

I love it! i still have the old iphone 5se I want to buy this one!

r0fl 6 years ago |

No one is stating the obvious here!

Apple is making more and more money from the app store and is trying to get into the streaming content game.

Streaming tv shows and movies on a tiny screen is not as enjoyable,therefore the old SE screen size is simply never going to happen.

ngcc_hk 6 years ago |

The size of the original iPhone has been insisted by Steve Jobs. Based on his insistence on the table high and low for apple store, there is a reason for that size.

I still bought a iPod lately for the size and 2nd phone SE for the size (and the weight).

alexashka 6 years ago |

Nice, now if they can start making phones with easily replaceable batteries, screens and charging ports that don't break on every one of my iPhones, we'll have a product that should've been made from the very start.

trashcan 6 years ago |

Anyone know if this will work with Google Fi out of the box?

stetrain 6 years ago | |

I use my iPhone XS on Fi.

You don't get carrier switching (T-Mobile only) and visual voicemail is done through the Fi app instead of the native phone app. Also no WiFi calling/SMS.

Other than that it works fairly well and costs a lot less than a standard plan at the other carriers.

qblv 6 years ago |

Would I buy it? It depends on the manufacturing country!

nojvek 6 years ago |

Ooooo they kept Touch ID. This is deffo my next phone.

eddielement 6 years ago |

This phone compares so favorably to the Pixel 4a!

jm1234567890 6 years ago |

Can someone confirm or deny if it has night mode?

livealife 6 years ago |

What does SE mean?

kart23 6 years ago |

type C and a headphone jack would have made this phone god-tier. Good on apple for releasing something affordable though.

infinite_beam 6 years ago |

I am still using my iphone 6 (from 2014) without any issue besides airpods not working well with Ip6. I have been hankering for an upgrade. This might be it.

ukj 6 years ago |

This is not an SE. This is a 6S.

I have a 6S. I want an SE.

lunias 6 years ago |

Pretty soon we'll bring our small "phone" with us in our backpacks while our big "phone" stays at home attached to the wall.

teknopurge 6 years ago |

Masterstroke of timing from Apple. This is what good executive leadership does wrt business: keep pocket aces when things look bleak.

loeg 6 years ago |

Ah shoot, I wish I had known they were bringing touch ID (and the home screen button) back. Not a fan of Face ID.

baq 6 years ago |

this is what i'll get when my 8 breaks, hopefully not in the next 2 years

eganist 6 years ago |

> A13

Well, found my new iOS test phone.

Brosper 6 years ago |

the worst thing for me is the design

i mean this phone is soo slippery

without case it's unusable

tomger 6 years ago |

Death of the small phone

richardwhiuk 6 years ago |

iPhone 11, with an iPhone 7/8 body. Sounds ideal to me.

luxuryballs 6 years ago |

Guess it’s almost time to list my classic style iPhone SE 128GB on eBay...

andosteinmetz 6 years ago |

Hi Apple. Throw in a 3.5mm stereo jack and you've got my attention.

Ritsuko_akagi 6 years ago |

Wait, no nightmode?

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

Thats an iPhone 11 Pro feature only. Not even the 11 gets it.

EDIT: My mistake, was thinking of Deep Fusion.

mavidser 6 years ago | | |

11 has night mode.

JohnTHaller 6 years ago |

~720p class screen

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

Give it a little more credit than that, it's a pretty tight LCD that has better effective (observed) DPI than it might appear to have. (As OLED displays take a hit due to the Pentile arrangement) 326PPI in an IPS LCD with HDR isn't nearly as blurry 720P might sell it to be. The iPhone 11 is well reviewed despite similar agreement. Plus chopping the pixel count comes with battery gains. No surpises here.

DrNuke 6 years ago |

Carrying on with the 2019 iPad Mini wifi + a $25 Nokia dumbphone.

smcleod 6 years ago |

ouch A$749 is pretty damn expensive...

dmtroyer 6 years ago |

no one has mentioned that it is $399.

winrid 6 years ago |

A light joke - this is the iPhone SE SE.

dipshitlol 6 years ago |

This is basically a rebranded iPhone 8.

AgloeDreams 6 years ago | |

With the CPU out of the iPhone 11 Pro. At $400 it is going to be faster (at processing tasks) than the S20 Ultra.

redisman 6 years ago | |

If you look at the specs its literally the iPhone 8 shell.

richardwhiuk 6 years ago |

No 5G radio support...

tonymet 6 years ago |

pixel is ded

FriendlyNormie 6 years ago |

Why do the edges need to be round? Can this idiotic trend die already? It makes it easier for the phone to slide off of flat surfaces. It also makes it much harder to hold the phone with one hand since all the weight that concentrates on your pinky rests painfully on 2-3 millimeters of your skin rather than being spread across the full thickness of the phone. It also makes it easier for the phone to slip out of your hand if your pinky isn’t at just the right location and angle, the smooth curve means it just slides right off your pinky knuckle and onto the floor.

No one ever asked for this.

microcolonel 6 years ago |

Anyone else miss the 3:2 aspect ratio phones? If they made a device that handles like an iPhone 4S but with smaller bezels, chin, and forehead (and maybe slightly thinner, if they must), I figure that'd be a killer. Maybe it's less of an issue now that most of their apps seem to support navigation from the canvas rather than the top left corner of the screen (I don't know since I have only ever used iPhones for testing, and not recently), but it would be nice if an ordinary person could reach every part of the screen with a thumb without adjusting their grip.

Also this phone isn't even compact, whether they slap the SE label on it.

logicslave 6 years ago |

This is how you know the economy is bad, apple is releasing cheap phones

mywittyname 6 years ago | |

That, and and I bet the price of flagships being so high that people aren't trading in phones as often, which is undermining the used market.

totalZero 6 years ago | | |

Not to mention that common upgrade motivators like battery degradation and cracked display glass become less important when you are at home all day and you can plug in to a charger, watch TV, and browse the internet on your laptop or desktop.

saagarjha 6 years ago | |

This phone has been rumored for years.

monadic2 6 years ago |

No headphone port? Are they deaf?

MKais 6 years ago |

I'm astonished that this gets 1K+ upvotes on HN in this crisis.

netsharc 6 years ago |

Why is the color called PRODUCT(RED)? What next, "White Pro" as a color?

ebg13 6 years ago | |

PRODUCT(RED) is a charity campaign originally to help fight HIV/AIDS. https://www.red.org

rock_artist 6 years ago |

One real con imho, no Night Mode. They could've at least some of this logic (with the A13 included).

scrumper 6 years ago | |

Wait, no "night shift" or something else? The 8 had that...

papermachete 6 years ago |

>(PRODUCT)RED

What about ";blue?

phreack 6 years ago |

I know it's a pretty much lost cause but I am 100% willing to die on the hill of never buying a phone without a headphone jack, no compromises, so a sad hard pass on this one.

ksquarekumar 6 years ago | |

Same boat as you, switched to android last year, atleast i will always have options in this side of the market.

polote 6 years ago |

I don't really understand why this is at HN front page, and also why people are keeping upvoting it, are you afraid some people will miss the news if this is not at the top ?

Also the guidelines state : 'If they'd cover it on TV news, it's probably off-topic. '

fastball 6 years ago | |

I feel like HN forgot about that particular guideline a long time ago.

cbovis 6 years ago |

So $400 equals roughly £320 and yet the retail price on the UK store is £419 🧐

https://www.apple.com/uk/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se/4.7-inch-...

cletus 6 years ago | |

As always, US pries are ex-tax (meaning state sales taxes are added on and can be as much as 10% depending on city and state). Most other places (UK included) as inc-tax. If you take out the 20% VAT you get to 349 GBP, which is ~437 USD at current exchange rates. That's not that far off.

wiredfool 6 years ago | |

Vat is applied in the price in the UK, and sales tax is at checkout in the US.

cbovis 6 years ago | | |

Interesting, I'd find that super annoying as a consumer that's used to seeing the full price (ex. delivery) upfront. Is this standard practice for online US stores?

nimish 6 years ago | |

Vat accounts for most the difference, plus any increase to buffer currency volatility and cover the extra consumer rights.

zapnuk 6 years ago | |

399$ equals 365.88€. With German VAT it's 435.40€ which is somewhat close to the 479€ Apple is asking for.

MagnumOpus 6 years ago | | |

Where "somewhat close" means more than 10% more expensive, same as for the UK.

Maybe US consumers get a device subsidy because they are expected to buy more of the expensive apps and services, sort of like in a razor/blade model?

laurentdc 6 years ago |

Physical button and massive bezels, pass. Feels like buying a device from a tech era ago

jefft255 6 years ago | |

That's the point of the SE. Lots of people loved this design. Not everyone cares that much about bezels (I like mine thin personally however).

maximilianburke 6 years ago | |

This is what I want! Call me paranoid but I really don't want a phone with face ID; I want a button.

iso1631 6 years ago | |

Introduce a 3.5mm jack, a flat edge, and make it a little smaller and you'd have a perfect phone

amrrs 6 years ago |

On a different note, Isn't it weird to see companies launching new phones when the whole world is fighting a pandemic?

It's not like an essential that we can't live without. OnePlus just did a few days back. Do these companies expect people to buy new phones when they're are being laid off or is it just an annual ritual or a desparate move to be the first to capture the market when things become normal?

Any insights please!

crazygringo 6 years ago | |

They've already manufactured them. This rollout was all planned far, far, far in advance of COVID-19.

What are they going to do? Not sell them and let them just sit in a warehouse?

A ton of people are looking to upgrade their original SE and a lot of people who can work remotely and haven't been laid off are likely doing fine.

I think that's all the insight needed.

JumpCrisscross 6 years ago | |

> It's not like an essential that we can't live without

For $399, you can buy a device with the computing power of a networked workstation within a lifetime of memory. That lets you dial into e.g. VoIP calls, answer e-mail, manage your calendar and interact with workflow apps.

Put another way, this could be seen as a substitute for a laptop for some users. That's absolutely essential.

addison-lee 6 years ago | |

Plenty of people still working, and this is a budget iPhone; this is the perfect time to launch a cheap phone.

OrangeMango 6 years ago | | |

It's likely to cannibalize sales from their higher-priced phones, but better to sell a cheaper phone than to lose the customer entirely.

I noticed that if you scroll down to the bottom of the press release, they are also accepting orders for the magic iPad keyboard as of today...

fishbacon 6 years ago | |

Most of this was developed way before the pandemic started. Not launching would be wasted effort and you might end up looking like you are lagging behind phonemakers that announced/launched before the pandemic.

Gadgets are seen as a status symbol in some groups, having the newest thing could be more desirable than paying rent to some. There is also still a large group of people that were not laid off, they still want that money.

I do not know about the logistics of manufacture and shipping, there might be a shortage after they sell though the initial launch stock.

chadlavi 6 years ago | |

> It's not like an essential that we can't live without.

it's not? sure seems like it is to me. And if you have to get a new one, maybe it's nice that there's a cheaper one newly on the market?

calvin 6 years ago | |

From Apple’s perspective, this is a good time to have a more affordable phone available for people who need to upgrade (broken, damaged, or lost phone) or are getting their first phone (kids).

matz1 6 years ago | |

Because phone are essential item these days. Can't live without.

Krasnol 6 years ago | | |

You can live without a NEW phone though ;)

Krasnol 6 years ago | |

People who have been able to afford overpriced hardware before the pandemic will still be able to do so. No reason to postpone the launch for them.