Ask HN: Has anyone here turned around their life in their 40s?

Ask HN: Has anyone here turned around their life in their 40s? | Dark Hacker News

1127 points by Deutscher 3 years ago | 726 comments

I know the best of my life is behind me, but I need help salvaging what's left of it. I've been meaning to ask for help for a couple of years now, but only now got around to it after being scared by my first real suicidal ideation a few nights ago. HN is probably not a suitable platform for this, but /r/advice seems to be not very active and I can't post on /adv/ due to some IP range ban. There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I live. I let my professional network decay and die, and there is literally nowhere else I can get any kind of useful, actionable advice.

I'm a 43-years-old single guy, NEET for the past decade. I got my Master's in the US in the late 2000s and was gainfully employed there for a few years (NOT in my field of education; long story) until I had to return to my home country to take care of my ailing father. He passed on within a year of my return, leaving my family with a financial mess, and his death took a lot out of me. I still obviously miss him, but in wallowing in depression and self-pity, I let the prime of my life pass me by.

As I stand, I have no current skills related to either my education (MEng) or my previous work experience (BI Reporting/Analytics). I don't have ideas/skills/network for entrepreneurship.

I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few. Every night I promise myself to do/be better tomorrow and somehow get myself to sleep. I was once looked up to, now I'm a pity case and an example case of how not to throw one's life away.

With every passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and disillusioned. I don't want to live like this anymore, but I don't know how to even _start_ thinking of ways to get myself out of this hole.

Ideally, I would prefer to go back to the US; not only for the dollars (they're nice), but also because I actually was happy there. I'd do all the things that I didn't do enough of because I was focused on saving money and because I thought that there would always be time for them when I was more stable/settled.

The good: No diseases AFAIK, no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a masterful ability to lie to myself. I have ~US$25k-equivalent in salary savings from a decade ago.

Sorry if the above text is rambling and not very cohesive. I've probably also skipped over some useful information I should have provided. Please do ask. I'll take some time reflecting on your replies and then respond. Thank you.

kemiller2002 3 years ago |

You need to see a therapist. Your problem is largely on your outlook on where you are in life. This is not meant to be a buck up or shut up comment, it's just that you can't improve your life until you change your outlook on things. You won't be able to move forward on things until you confront your feelings and accept your position to move out of it.

To answer your question, yes. My 30's were a mess with a divorce, a parent with dementia, a kid who had a unknown behavior problems they said was autism, and trying to keep my dad's business running all while maintaining a full time job. You can get better, but you need help doing it and have to actively accept you aren't all alone.

cromwellian 3 years ago | |

100% to the above and I would look specifically for Cognitive Behavioral Therapy which specializes in treating distorted thinking. It rescued me from my early thirties and I haven’t been depressed since. Our brains are wired to generate stories and narratives around everything, we can’t help it, and sometimes those narratives are distorted but cause damage and like a scab, we keep reinforcing and picking at them. Learning to recognize when you’re doing this and to stop is a skill like riding a bike, and a good therapist can help. Group therapy also helps because you can see other people going into these catastrophic narratives that look absurd to you and give you an idea of some of the same distortions you might be imagining.

Then other thing is, no matter how smart you are, you can’t debug yourself, you need other people. If you have a distorted negative feeling of yourself, then when you try to fix yourself, you’ll be more inclined to feel something isn’t working or you are doomed the first time you hit a roadblock or relapse.

And ultimately sometimes medication can help you get through the initial hurdle of such negativity, another reason you need to see a professional to evaluate this.

Go check out YouTube and Wikipedia for some cognitive behavioral therapy sources to see if it might fit.

cobbman 3 years ago | | |

> Then other thing is, no matter how smart you are, you can’t debug yourself, you need other people.

This is very true, and not always realized.

Another way I heard it said which is easy to remember: "You can't read the label from inside the bottle."

Trasmatta 3 years ago | | |

An alternative to CBT that you might want to consider is Internal Family Systems. I find it to be a more holistic and compassionate form of therapy that respects your entire internal system.

Sometimes we have internal parts that need love and care more than they need lecturing on cognitive distortions.

CBT is effective for many people which is great, but there are other options.

GFischer 3 years ago | | |

Second the advice for Cognitive Behavorial Therapy, looks like the best fit in this case.

fsloth 3 years ago | | |

CBT helped debug my thinking in very analogous circumstances to OP (30+, hit hard by events in life plus somewhat traumatic past), warm recommendation as well.

mancerayder 3 years ago | |

> You need to see a therapist

You should reword that. Otherwise how did humanity last this long? Psychotherapy is less than two centuries old. You should instead say something like, "One option is to see a therapist."

There are friends, elders, books, and a number of other ways to climb out of a mental rut. Traipsing "Psychology Today" for a therapist who will charge the insurance $150 for 40 minutes of a session, through Zoom no less, with your $40 co-pay after deductibles is such a commercial approach to what is fundamentally a human problem.

You know a very modern problem? You can't sit easily and talk with friends over a drink about your issues and have someone give you constructive advice. Everyone is remote, busy, prefers chatting online, and as a result a lot of loneliness manifests as "Oh my god, what am I doing with my life."

roughly 3 years ago | | |

It's worth considering a therapist as similar to a medical intervention - yes, good eating, clean living, and regular exercise can keep you healthy, but after a very long time of not doing so, it's possible to find oneself too far down the road for that kind of change to sufficient on its own. Similarly, the help of friends, family, etc. can do wonders for one's mental health, but after a very long time of neglect, that can be beyond one's reach.

I say this as someone who rather successfully turned things around with a therapist - I simply did not have it in me to have those conversations with others and I didn't feel I had the relationships or support to do so (in retrospect I probably did, but that's the thing about mental health).

I don't think your diagnosis is wrong, particularly - there's a lot in the modern world that promotes alienation, feelings of low self esteem, and depression, but I think a lot of people find themselves at the bottom of the well before realizing quite what's happening and without the support structures to get out on their own.

(Edit just to note that, like physical health, mental health is not just the consequences of one's own actions - both genetic predispositions and unexpected life events can necessitate professional intervention by no fault of one's own. It's not what we're talking about, but just so nobody takes my post to be a psalm from the church of the self-sufficient.)

javajosh 3 years ago | | |

Yes, too often "You need to see a therapist" is just a euphemism for "I don't want to listen to your problems."

This is an important data point and a general trend toward the cheapening of human relationships. Friendship means something very specific, and for a lot of people now it means only the superficial. Anything deeper than that is actively discouraged. I think of those surveys about friendship took this kind of friendship into account. The number of people without any friends at all would be outrageously high.

geoah 3 years ago | | |

Humanity "survived" this long, many people did't make that cut, and many of those who did lived in misery, denial, or in the comfort of alcholor and/or drugs. IMO the cost of a couple of sessions to see if it works for you is better than not giving it a shot.

OP: Life can be good and does indeed gets better, if you are not in a good place, please do talk to someone, try to make a change, no matter how small, and stay strong.

gernb 3 years ago | | |

I recently looked into seeing a therapist for reasons similar to the OP's.

I tried lyra. All the wording and questions ask screamed to me "these are not my type of people". I'm not going to go into specifics but imagine you walked into a help conference and every table had energy stones, power of pyramids, astrology books, etc... If you're anything like me you'd walk out.

Once I made it past all that it recommended some therapists all of whom were white. The metro area I live in, 8 million people, is only 60% white in total and many areas are majority not white. I tried changing my location to an area known for being majority not white but it just gave me the same people.

It just got me wondering how much of therapy is a white culture thing because it seems statistically unlikely that of the 11 therapists it recommended, all 11 would be white if the demographics of the area say that only 60% of the population is white.

It was no different on BetterHelp.

ineedausername 3 years ago | | |

Spo on, in this isolated atomized western reality, the end result is posts like that and therapy suggestions as replies.

csomar 3 years ago | | |

> Otherwise how did humanity last this long?

Religion and procreation?

mradek 3 years ago | |

How do u find a therapist? I’m a bit weary to discuss super personal things with someone I don’t know even if they’re a professional.

How can I find someone I trust and is actually good? Not like the movies where the clock is up and ok next issue.

My work offers a mental health service but I’ve looked at their TOS and no thanks.

Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background process and being still would be nice. But I don’t have sudo.

9wzYQbTYsAIc 3 years ago | | |

If you are in the United States, the following is a good resource: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/therapists

Also, read through https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/therapy/how-find-t...

PaulRobinson 3 years ago | | |

Try a few. Go see one, make it clear you’re looking around. If it isn’t working, say so and move on. They’re professionals, they get it.

You do have to be prepared to be vulnerable to some extent, but if they’re any good they’ll earn trust and develop a working relationship with you that is comfortable.

Source: multiple years of therapy. Definitely worth the effort and the cost.

sveme 3 years ago | | |

Given OP's user name, I suppose he is in Germany right now. If you want to find a therapist, there's several ways:

1. Talk to your health insurance; they often have scheduling services

2. Talk to the Kassenärztlicher Bereitschaftsdienst of your state, e.g., Bavaria has this on offer: https://www.kvb.de/service/patienten/terminservicestelle/ter... If you don't know where to head to, call 116117. Easiest way.

3. Go to your GP - he can guide you through this or can forward you to a psychiatrist

4. Use the online service from the association of psychotherapists: https://www.psychotherapiesuche.de/pid/ersteschritte

If you have suicidal thoughts, search for a local Krisendienst Psychiatrie (https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=krisendienst+psychiatrie&ia...), they can help you immediately.

The most important thing that OP has to learn is that he is not alone, there are professionals out there that can help you. But you have to make the first step.

CodeWriter23 3 years ago | | |

> How can I find someone I trust and is actually good?

It's like dating. I think within the first 4-5 visits you'll know if someone is trustworthy and is giving you some insight. Note, they won't be able to give you the really great insights until you feel you can trust them, but they should be able to give you a couple of things to ponder / act upon even in the initial stages.

kemiller2002 3 years ago | | |

If you have a doctor, I would start there by asking that person if there is someone they would recommend. It may take a few attempts to find someone you're comfortable with. The first session or 2 will be around both of you figuring out if it's a good fit. It may not be. Most therapists have a bio describing their approach to their practice and their beliefs.

Remember, if you meet a therapist and you aren't feeling it isn't a good fit, that's ok. There is nothing wrong with you (or them), it's just not a good fit. Be honest in your feelings, and don't worry about disappointing anyone in the process. This is about you and what's best for you.

kingkawn 3 years ago | | |

Therapy can save your life.

The professional is there not to be a regular person to know, but someone to who you can emote and feel openly your hardest things you hold inside. This expression of those things makes them less haunting and distracting inside yourself. This technique does not necessarily fix your material problems, but it allows you to clear the way within you to take them on.

It is not for everyone, and it is worth a try when you are feeling hopeless.

There are lots of good online therapy things now. Although I’d recommend doing in person if you can because the latency of emotional exchange is much higher in the space of the world. Even still the online work can be hugely beneficial.

Even if your worldview has left you bereft, your body deserves a chance to reformulate your mind for this opportunity at existence.

jvanderbot 3 years ago | | |

I have found online services to be OK when I was struggling with a difficult time. Mindbloom, Betterhelp, and Cerebral were fine for what they were. They got me through the first steps for a slight cost. After that, momentum builds. There's no silver bullet.

slothtrop 3 years ago | | |

Find one specializing in CBT, or similar forms of therapy shown to be effective (3rd-wave CBT such as MCT). You can also just pick up a CBT workbook and do the exercises yourself. The only advantage a therapist has over this is "talking it out" - you should be capable of recognizing and correcting distorted negative thinking with a therapist guide / workbook. This is why online therapy has been growing in popularity, they just regurgitate the principles.

You can do this free of charge just by visiting the library, or finding pdfs online.

ambicapter 3 years ago | | |

> I’m a bit weary to discuss super personal things with someone I don’t know even if they’re a professional.

You don't have to unpack everything in the first session. Generally you want someone who is trying to build a one-on-one relationship with you where you feel comfortable doing this.

> Not like the movies where the clock is up and ok next issue.

I mean, all appointments end at a certain time and then you get up and leave.

> Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background process and being still would be nice.

You could try meditation. I do both therapy and meditation.

adamc 3 years ago | | |

If you live in a metro area, look for hospitals that run CBT/DBT/group therapy sessions. That's another way to get started. If you have insurance, that helps.

If you don't have insurance, consider looking at your background and find a 12-step program that fits. ACA (adult children of alcoholics, but it also considers family dysfunction) is one example. It doesn't benefit from having a trained therapist, but it's effectively free group therapy.

realce 3 years ago | | |

> How can I find someone I trust and is actually good? Not like the movies where the clock is up and ok next issue.

In reality, you don't really know the kind of people you'd trust to talk to in the first place, you don't really have an informed opinion. Just jump in feet-first, don't think about. You just need someone to talk to ASAP and any decent therapist is your first step. Just try it, there's nothing to lose whatsoever.

ceedon 3 years ago | | |

My SO is a therapist. Something to keep in mind: Many quality therapists have stopped taking insurance due to the influx of folks seeking care coupled w/ insurance tightening what they pay out.

I'm certain there are plenty of good therapists who will take their time with you at the discount implied by insurance, but you're more likely to get that experience if you're paying full rate.

shackenberg 3 years ago | | |

Somebody wrote that OP is in Germany. Here are some notes I compiled for (expat) friends and coworkers on:

How to find how to find a therapist in Berlin (Germany): https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1YQYTXBkypxc1DaCRWIjk...

AndyMcConachie 3 years ago | | |

There is no harm in trying out therapists. Don't be afraid to fire them and find a new one. They shouldn't take it personally. Much of it is about fit and you need to find the right person for you.

zebnyc 3 years ago | | |

>Sometimes I feel like just suspending the world background process and being still would be nice. But I don’t have sudo.

You absolutely can do this if you go on a meditation retreat. I went to https://www.dhamma.org/en-US/courses/search though I am sure you can find other schools of meditation. My experience was that you are not allowed to talk for the duration of the course and just focus on breathing & meditation (10 days in my case). It brought a great deal of calm and focus into my life.

dboreham 3 years ago | | |

Katie Morton has some good videos on how to select a therapist and red flags to beware of.

adamc 3 years ago | | |

I've had several. The best one I had was a life coach without all the standard creds. The next-best one was in a hospital (outpatient) group therapy program that taught CBT.

Keep an open mind, but... it takes looking. I've had therapists with all the right degrees who were... meh. Well-meaning, but just not that good at it.

Unfortunately, this isn't a zero-effort path. You have to look, and fire therapists who aren't doing what you need.

ohitsdom 3 years ago | | |

I used TherapyDen to find the only therapist I saw (so I'm no expert). But lots of therapists there have videos so you get a sense of who they are and what they focus on. I did enjoy the therapist I ended up seeing for a year.

https://www.therapyden.com/

jijji 3 years ago | | |

First of all don't suspend your background processes with sudo, that is only going to prevent the money from coming in everyday... then you've got Google maps you can type in social worker near me or psychiatrist near me or behavioral health near me and it will point you in the right direction.....

soheil 3 years ago | | |

Referral are probably best. Seek people in your area in that profession and just ask anyone if who'd they recommend.

You need to fix your brain. Spending 50% of your income/spendings for at least one year on therapy is the minimum you can do.

It is just like a broken leg you need to get it fixed you have no choice.

micromacrofoot 3 years ago | | |

Therapy being limited to a scheduled window of time is a big part of how therapy works. You're paying a professional for their time.

circlefavshape 3 years ago | | |

> How do u find a therapist?

In Ireland, at least, you ask your doctor for a recommendation

justizin 3 years ago | | |

i found my therapist via a therapy app, which we both left long ago. Apps like BetterHelp and TalkSpace can be very hit and miss, but they're a place to start, and can serve as good matchmaking services.

Be prepared to pay out of pocket, my insurance pays about half of what my sessions cost. You get what you pay for. You don't want a therapist who is stretched too thin, overworked, or financially struggling themselves.

Also, ask friends and family, you may know more people in therapy than you realize, and talking about MH with people you know is incredibly helpful.

If you have a good PCP, ask them for a referral both to a therapist, and consider an IOP - an Intensive Outpatient Program. When you're trying to get out of crisis, it can be helpful to have more than just a weekly or biweekly session. I am in such a program now, it includes group therapy every day (I can choose which groups) and more intensive individual therapy and case management.

The particular program I am in also does ketamine therapy, which can help to rewire your neuropathways so that behavioral changes are more permanent. There are some online programs - Better U and Mindbloom come up in a quick search - which will offer this and other IOP-like services remotely, though I'm not sure how they compare to traditional IOP.

Above all, seeking help in any way that you can will make you feel better and I am personally proud of you for coming and asking a bunch of strangers for help. It shows a readiness to take on your challenges.

Good luck on your journey! <3

js8 3 years ago | |

I second that, I would suggest move to a larger city and get a job and therapist there (looks like the OP is from Germany, which I would personally prefer to US).

And regarding to life goals, wife and kids in particular, although I have decided not to have a family, so take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think there are many single mothers out there who would appreciate a stable and solid partner with 2nd income.

rjzzleep 3 years ago | | |

One thing to note is that while Germany is much better if you need social services, it's much easier to move between classes in the US. It's very hard to move up in German society without the right social circles which are also much more exclusive than in the US or London.

That said, while therapy is one thing(and very hard to find someone that actually helps you out of your misery instead of reinforcing it), I'd maybe suggest creating a fixed schedule. Some basic cardio sports at a fixed time and day once a week(if that is too much once every two weeks). Ideally a group practice that gives some social pressure. It's much harder to get out a tough spot when you're alone. Maybe a beginner Capoeira class. No real requirement to socially engage if you don't want to, but warms your heart nonetheless.

And maybe one usergroup of some sort once a month. No need to engage with people. Worst case, you just listen to some talks and get free Pizza.

One thing that's very important in Germany when getting help is to never EVER say that you have suicidal thoughts. The moment you do that you slide into a bracket out of the social system that you can never get out of on your own. Any doctor or psychologist may now force you to take medication or put you in the asylum whenever they chose.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

I mean I don't know why people keep saying it's too late to have kids if you're 43. You could have a 20 year old by age 65, which is the time you could retire and have them move out after they get a job.

brailsafe 3 years ago | | |

Regarding the last point, that's shooting pretty low imo. Definitely a range of women out there between 25-35 who might be a catch, you just don't want to be desperate first.

stuart78 3 years ago | |

A six month series of weekly sessions with a Cognitive Behavioral Therapist had a transformative impact in my life. He helped me see some of the actions I was doing more clearly and helped me develop the skills to change. In our sessions we focused on one small part of my life, but I’ve felt the impact quite broadly and still think of him and those conversations regularly, especially when I am struggling. I have at times seen other therapists with less helpful results, so it’s with finding the one that fits for you.

I don’t believe any life is past its time. We all follow our own twisting paths, and it is an easier path when we don’t have to face it all alone.

bowsamic 3 years ago | |

Unfortunately finding a therapist in Germany is near impossible even in a big city, I’ve been on the waiting list for almost a year now with no sign of end and I live in Hamburg which is one of the richest cities in Germany

n0dar 3 years ago | | |

Also living in Hamburg. Have you tried 116117.app to at least get a first appointment? I got lists and lists full of phone numbers, always got rejected or waitlisted, but found a therapist quite quickly near me using this first talk. Nobody told me about this, had to search a lot. I hope this helps.

dlandis 3 years ago | | |

Could you try one of the remote services like Better Help? (I have no idea if they have good therapists, I just see their name a lot lately).

waltherg 3 years ago | |

Yes, I read this and was thinking therapy from the start. I was never against therapy but finally pulled through and my mood and outlook have improved dramatically over the past six months thanks to my weekly therapy sessions.

OP’s username seems somewhat German so I would cordially invite OP to make use of our pretty decent Krankenkasse system that makes it a relative breeze to get therapy sessions. Shop around if you don’t vibe with your therapist.

moonraker 3 years ago | |

I just want to add 2 things to kemiller's helpful comment:

1.) Just talking to a therapist who you feel heard and understood by (whatever their method: CBT or any of the others below) will be a massive help - you'll feel less alone and the challenges and mindsets you wrote about will begin to feel less all encompassing. The world will be a less frightening place.

2.) I think Deutscher's post is one of the most courageous personal posts I've ever seen on a message board/social forum (certainly the most courageous in 2022). One of the hardest things for anyone to do is to admit their life hasn't/isn't going the way they expected and instead of lying to themselves, they do the incredibly brave thing of admitting they need help.

Anyways, I just wanted to commend Deutscher for that (hopefully before my comment gets buried hours after the original post)

theteapot 3 years ago | |

"See a therapist" almost seems condescending even to average people with average jobs.

Did you read the bit about $25K in savings? Or the part about there are "no mental health facilities in the small town where I live"? How's he afford a therapist, time or money wise?

BizarreByte 3 years ago | | |

> Or the part about There are "no mental health facilities in the small town where I live"

HN is hugely biased towards people who live in cities. A lot of the posters simply do not understand how a lot of us outside the cities live, and the resources they take for granted that we don't have access to.

For me the drive to the nearest therapist is measured not in minutes, but hours. That's impossible for someone who has to work full time.

gen220 3 years ago | |

I agree this is an important place to start, but it might not be feasible given the situation they're starting from now.

It might make sense to take "under-" employment with a company that offers good health benefits, which would at least provide income and insurance to buffer the cost of therapy. It might be helpful to think of it as a "launchpad" or "staging" job. It can also be an opportunity to exercise the muscle of befriending new people (coworkers, regular customers).

In the US, Starbucks and Trader Joe's are popular launchpad choices of employer, at least in my metro area. There might be similar ones in your current home country, if it makes more logistical sense to stay local.

disintegore 3 years ago | |

I don't think you're wrong, but it's worth mentioning that you can't outlook-change your way out of having executive dysfunction. Recognizing the problem is the first step, but getting help comes soon after.

zackmorris 3 years ago | |

The parent comment about therapy is correct (I regret not getting some myself), but I wanted to address this line directly.

I was stuck being overwhelmed from 2003 to 2019 after the death of a friend, because I had a spiritual awakening but denied it. I tried to satisfy my ego and win the internet lottery and gain external recognition of success which never came. So I lost the better part of 2 decades just going through the motions, utterly exhausted.

I had another spiritual awakening climbing out of burnout and surviving through the pandemic. This time I watched the world wrestle with every existential truth that I had suspected but which had been suppressed by the might of economics steamrolling everyone until that point.

Now I feel that reality is akin to a dream, or at least a Matrix like the movie. There are logical rules we must follow on the micro scale in the day to day where we push atoms around for income. But on the macro scale, it's more like the universe reads our mind and lays a path for us to follow whose main goal is to put us through the wringer for our spiritual growth. That can be as painful or as effortless as we choose. Western culture has no real description for this outside of religion, so all but denies its existence. But it's deeply connected with karma/sin and how we've integrated our shadow self with our outward existence.

Basically the stories I had told myself for most of my life were no longer enough to sustain me. My inner monologue had became toxic like the line above, a false exaltation to cling to when I couldn't face the road ahead of me. Here is an alternative way to write the same sentiment:

I was struggling for a long time but am grateful for the lessons that pain has taught me, even though I can't continue to cling to that pain any longer.

I found that most of the code in my brain had been co-opted by negative self-talk, to the point where it no longer worked and I lost my executive function. It was like I had a stroke and the part of my brain that controlled motivation was no longer there, or worse, actively talked me down from starting any task. I believe now that my subconscious intervened and broke the negative feedback cycle I was trapped in where the harder I tried, the harder I failed.

Once that happened, I finally understood that my mind is not my soul. My physical body and even my thoughts may suffer profoundly (or be elated) in the day to day, but I mostly observe that process playing out now. I don't subscribe to external meaning anymore. I choose what's meaningful. Because meaning isn't objective, it's subjective.

Now I meditate and have faith that I can handle life, even when it doesn't turn out the way that I want. I've found that practicing non-attachment has a funny way of revealing what's really important. Mantras help too, like aligning with heartfelt causes, for example service or being of service to others. Kind of like, strengthening the love inside to give love to others who need it. And allowing myself the same dignity to receive love. My struggles became training, my successes became miracles. And reality seems to be shifting towards this more integrated physical/spiritual whole with divine timing.

Hope something in this helps you on your journey.

Jeff2Serve 3 years ago | | |

Zack, I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to articulate your thoughts. Your view is different, yet coherent. Printed up your comment for further study. Please write a little more if possible.

timwaagh 3 years ago | |

I'm sorry but how is this helpful? Even if you're actively employed that's a tough cost-benefit decision.

ogou 3 years ago |

Yes. I turned my life around at 43. Single, obsolete tech skills, lots of debt, personal issues. Began with taking a genuine inventory of my life and how I function, not just how I felt. I picked a constructive and structured approach to that, which looked a lot like CBT therapy but was something else.

It was a life reset, clearing out all the baggage. It was very difficult but incremental and genuine over time.

After the personal part, I levelled up my tech with some commercial online courses. When I began the career pivot, there was a lot of ageism and ghosting. Eventually I got a foothold and was on my way.

As for the family and relationships, I can tell you that I got a lot of attention from women once I made all those changes. There are so many looking for someone who is at least trying to handle their lives. I hear it all the time. Even being older, I get curious early 30s women who want families.

Now in my early 50s, my life is so much better. In no way do I feel my best days are behind me.

necovek 3 years ago |

I don't have any idea why you think "a wife, kids" are out of the picture for you: after early adulthood, men and women are looking for someone they can see having a family with, and not for the more superfluous things in life (good looks, status or lots of money). At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not for men (well, at least making babies: bringing up kids does get a bit harder as you age regardless of the gender).

In any case, getting a job in a place where you'd be happy should "restart" your life: job is also a means to a new social life where you make the break from the old. So it sounds like you are only a decent job away from starting on the right path.

Having some vices also allows you to connect with others, so perhaps pick up a few non-damaging ones :D

Finally, note that you should look for professional help instead of listening to any of the advice I might give, though finding a psychologist who you can connect to is sometimes an ordeal as well.

wmeredith 3 years ago |

Not me, but my Mother indeed turned her life in a completely different direction in her 40's. Up until then, she was married to a verbally abusive narcissist for 20 years (my father–a decent man and excellent surgeon, but with unaddressed mental health issues). She and my Dad divorced at 40, and she returned to school to get the degree she always wanted. She completed PhD in English Literature and, for the last 20+ years, has been an accomplished English professor and author–writing everything from illustrated children's stories to graduate-level textbooks. She also met another man, and they've now been married longer than she and my father.

Your perspective is out of calibration. You're halfway through your life (ish). Your best days could easily be ahead of you. You need a therapist, and they are available online. Doesn't have to be one in your town. My wife and I have seen a couple's therapist online for 3+ years now, and it's an excellent way to spend our time and money.

Life is hard. It was hard then and it will be hard now, but you can do the things you want. And the second half is coming whether you do them or not, so you may as well get started.

sibeliuss 3 years ago | |

My Mother turned her whole (entire) life around at 55. It has been remarkable to watch, and it was pretty dark before this period of time. It's possible.

unrealp 3 years ago |

I am 42, single, similar situation. I was in a pretty dark place around 38 or so. I happened to read "man's search for meaning" by victor frankl and it honestly helped A LOT. When we are young and nature is working for our benefit, we should search for happiness. Beyond that, we need to search for meaning.

There are 2 meanings implicit and third one you can pursue. 1) Search for meaning is meaningful itself.

2) Human life has intrinsic meaning. I dont agree with nihilism that life has no meaning. Life has no 'given' meaning - correct. But since we are conscious, there is a living being going through experiences, there is intrinsic meaning to human life. Consciousness gives meaning to everything. In absence of consciousness, nothing has meaning. This intrinsic meaning is irrespective of life success. Even for a complete failure, since a real living being went through this life, the life still has meaning.

3) External meaning. This is related to success happiness relationships helping others etc. This is a bit fragile, since if you lose these things then you lose meaning. And if you are not successful, life might feel meaningless.

A healthy life is a balance of pursuing external meaning and accepting and giving value to internal meaning.

It is not happiness vs meaning. happiness is one of the things that gives meaning to human life.

Wish you all the best.

vjulian 3 years ago |

No offense to the reply, but “need a therapist” is a very American response and a bit of a cop out.

OP, I’ve seen many people turn around after aged 40, including a friend who got married for the first time at aged 58. She’s energetic and attractive and incidentally also turned her life around after 40.

My two pennies would suggest you throw the past expectations out the window, determine where your passions lie, and set short-term intentions / goals. I might also suggest looking to groups where people are successful but take approaches outside the norm. My friend for example is a successful physician and involved in a Yoga community that is global and inexpensive and where he can meet others of like kind. Build community for yourself.

utahcon 3 years ago |

First, way to go! You've chosen to be vulnerable, and that is a great first step.

Second, get a therapist. It may seem expensive, and not helpful at first, but as I'm sure you already felt in writing this post, just talking about your thoughts and issues really does help.

Third, it's NEVER too late. I'm 42 and learning and growing daily. I've had to change a lot in the last decade to remain 1) relevant, and 2) in the loop.

I've had to learn to network again, because my original network of friends and colleagues dried up. It's possible, and after you start with a therapist, it'll be easier and more rewarding than ever before.

Finally, and I can't stress this enough, get out and do service for others. Soup kitchens, shoveling snow, cutting grass, whatever you can do. It will give you an immediate jolt of worth, and make the world a better place for all involved.

I wish you luck friend. If you need more talking, let me know utahcon [at] utahcon dot com

jimmytidey 3 years ago |

Here's a thought - through proactively seeking help by posting on HN, you just made it to the front page.

You got feedback from people across the world. Some highly skilled (and paid) people stopped what they are doing to help because they understand and want to help. There are a lot of people who want to help. Some have been where you are.

Most people on this thread are vastly more positive about your outlook than you are - some of them because of their personal experience. The only person who thinks you are completely stuck is you.

As many other people have said, even if everything else is too complex, you need to get a therapist. Use your savings if you have to. If it's not working, get another therapist until you find the right one. It will work.

S_A_P 3 years ago |

I don’t know you or what you’re going through but even though the above is true I would be saddened to know if you harmed yourself. Life is and can be tough. I’m posting the below not to try and play any game of “my problems are worse than yours”.

I’m currently in the midst of a fight with incurable cancer. There is a hope that they can shrink the numerous tumors and affected lymph nodes with chemo and I will have a risky surgeries shot at being cured. According to the very pessimistic internet my type of cancer across ages 8-80 means I have 2 years to live on average.

Funny thing is a few years ago I was a contractor and was billing up to 80 hours per week. I missed a lot of family interaction doing this and I now regret working so long.

So my point in all of this is health is literal wealth. And aside from needing to address your mental health (parents dying is not something you should just stuff down). It sounds like you are generally healthy but going through something. It may be tough to get through this phase of your life but if you do I’m pretty sure you will be happy you did.

Magi604 3 years ago | |

I am sorry to read about your struggle. Thank you for sharing and I wish you a full recovery.

upghost 3 years ago |

Hey brother hang in there. My grandpa didn’t have his first kid until he was 68!! And his wife was in her young 20s. And they were in love till the day he died in his late 80s. He wasn’t any kind of programmer or rich or anything. It’s an atypical story but the point is do not EVER think the best of your life is BEHIND you! One of the most foolish and important of all emotions is hope. Hope is about taking a look at the data and realizing that the situation is grim but choosing to proceed as if life has good things in store for you anyway. Beethoven’s 9th symphony was written when he was stone cold deaf and he wouldn’t ever get to hear a single note of the music, and yet he wrote it anyway as a big middle finger to the cruel hand that fate dealt him. If you look at his writings from the time, they were pretty dark. That’s why Ode to Joy brings me to tears darn near every time I hear it. Hope has a way of making its own luck, if you are open to the possibilities that life puts before you and you don’t hang onto the wheel too tightly. Last thing to remember is that YOUR story is beautiful, even the tragic parts, because it is your experience. None of us have any idea what we are “supposed” to be doing here. No one’s journey is more valuable than anyone else’s. And the sad parts of being human are part of the experience too. Hang in there man. There is so much beauty out there for you to discover, out there and within.

ws404 3 years ago |

Bro you are are on the right forum. My family has a healthy dose of depression passed down. I can read it in every word you're writing. It's just a chemical reaction, you can defeat it but it will be tough.

Achievement cures depression. Any achievement. Dead time exacerbates depression - i.e. watching TV, playing mindless games, porn, hell even reading sometimes (if it's trash and you're just reading to escape your reality - obviously lots of reading can be good). Quit escaping your life because it's shitty or it will remain shitty.

So try this, set a small goal for yourself, either fitness or professional (i.e. a training course online, Udemy, etc. maybe refresh your BI skills with some modern Big Data type stuff). And just give that 100%. Knock it out, get the certificate, lose 10 pounds. Just one small win. BTW I work in that field a bit - it's gotten so much more fun in the last 10 years than just running Tableau over and over. Cloud services have made analytics just amazing.

Start there. The rest will come as you continue to set small goals and string wins together.

Don't worry about what happened already. Shit happened, now you just adapt and overcome.

Never quit.

yibg 3 years ago | |

+1 to this. I don't know if it was depression for me but definitely been a period where I was in a rut. Everything seems to be going badly, relationships, romance, career. Because so many things needed "fixing", I didn't know where to start and was always overwhelmed. Then I try to change everything and end up not making much progress anywhere.

What eventually got me out was just focusing on 1 thing in my life and make it better. That one small achievement fuels the next one and so on. Positive feedback loops (and negative ones) are powerful.

shrx 3 years ago | |

I have a mild case of depression and I live by this, it has helped me tremendously. At the beginning it will be very hard to push yourself to start something new but after a couple of achievements you kind of get to anticipate the rewarding feeling at the end and it gets easier.

daveaiello 3 years ago |

Hey I am older than you. I just want to suggest that it's probably not a great idea to look at turning around your life as if it's binary.

What I would personally be looking for, if I were you, is an aspect of my life that I can turn around relatively easily, and then a second one, which might be a little more challenging.

Try to develop a little momentum in the direction that you want to go in life.

From there, I would keep breaking down the things that would represent a complete turn around for me, and try to achieve those things one at a time.

We all get on losing streaks in life. We all have technologies that we work with that go from hot, to good, to old, to unpopular. But I argue that we can't look at ourselves as a failure or success in a binary fashion.

We have to keep reinventing and course correcting, one step at a time.

Good luck!

beeburrt 3 years ago |

I'm 46, just recently got my self out of homelessness and addiction. Been clean and sober since June.

I've been studying programming/webDev for the past year (since my last release from prison) with the hope of making something of myself other than being a 46 yr old ex heroin addict, ex con, etc. Looks dim for me, oh well.

I'm in a similar situation as you (regarding depression. Esp. concerning certain thoughts of cashing it all in).

I just watched a movie the other night called Stutz, a documentary by Jonah Hill about his therapist. If you can get past the parts about Jonah talking about himself, the Dr has some really excellent gems of wisdom and advice in that film.

Keep your head up bro

holler 3 years ago | |

> just recently got my self out of homelessness and addiction

That's huge! Congratulations, you should feel proud of making a positive change like that. Many, many people do not recover and don't make it. Many of them don't _want_ to.

Life is largely dictated by our pesky brain and how we view the world. 46 isn't _that_ old, you still have a ton of life ahead and if you view it from the lens of breaking free from your own personal prison, finally getting the opportunity to experience the fresh air of tranquility, you might just realize the future is indeed bright and not dim.

Good luck friend.

just3ws 3 years ago |

Just turned 47 this morning. I do have the kids, house, and accomplished most of the things I wanted to when I was a kid... but there's always more, there's always the things I haven't done, the things I have failed at, and the list goes on. I too feel the bitterness, anger, and disillusionment of the current state of the economy, my career, etc. I wonder how much of this is a product of those of us working in tech related/adjacent fields and the industries promises of the past few decades really not panning out. I feel like we're in an age of disillusionment for those of us who bought into those promises only to ... <<gestures broadly at the Internet>>.. see what has come of it.

I am never going to be rich, it is never going to be "easy", and while it could be worse it could be a lot fucking better too. And it is going to get harder before anything else changes.

What can you do about it? Fuck if I know. I can't deal with my own shit. But the one thing that has helped is trying to re-evaluate my current situation. Sometimes I feel locked into focusing on the things I can't have, the things I didn't accomplish, the mistakes I've made, and just have to accept that I cannot change them. I can only look at where I am now, take inventory, and try to re-orient myself. I've heard that works for others and it has helped me in the past, but it isn't a one-and-done exercise. Maybe I'm wrong but it has gotten me this far.

"You Are Not Alone" by Andrew WK (yeah, the Party guy) has been a fantastic cathartic resource for this middle aged dude in the 202Xs. I recommend a full listen -- end-to-end -- through on decent headphones and a place where you can safely process emotions. https://red.lnk.to/AWKYNA

Take care man, I hope you find a way to accept where you are, that you find peace, and make a plan for where you want to go next.

2pointsomone 3 years ago | |

Happy Birthday!

kaon123 3 years ago |

There are magic bullets. But I feel a few months ago as if I stumbled upon one:

My regular sports team (ultimate frisbee) disbanded after the pandemic, so I found myself without any physical exercise. I thought I probably should go to the gym but realised I wasn't going to do it after work, and neither before breakfast. Also, I am 34 and have never visited a gym before in my life.

Then I found a gym across my office which specialises in High Intensity Interval Training. They are group trainings that only last 25 mins. Including overhead (shower, dressing, etc.) it takes 40 minutes. This means my lunch break is about 1h15 minutes long, but it includes sports!

It has transformed my wellbeing, and I feel suddenly I am acting on issues that I have been procrastinating on for years.

Obviously there are many other things you could/should do in your life. And the other comments here are very valuable. But maybe if you are only going to do 1 thing... Consider this. Or consider it several years down the line when other things have worked out :).

hiram112 3 years ago | |

> They are group trainings that only last 25 mins.

For a good 20 years - from early teens through mid 30s - I began and eventually quit various workout and gym routines, memberships, etc because I couldn't find the time or because I would dread going so much I'd invent any excuse in my mind to avoid them.

My mistake was assuming I needed to go for an hour or more at a time, and also that I needed to do 20-30 minutes of cardio.

It wasn't until my mid 30s that I realized I wouldn't dread it so much if I limited my workouts to 20-30 minutes max, and that I didn't need cardio (which I despise) and instead could just do some compound free weights exercise - just 4 or 5 simple lifts. Maybe 2-3 sets of 5 every other day.

Since then, I enjoy going and have been consistent about it for years.

anonu 3 years ago | |

You sound like Joe Rogan: you have a problem, just workout man. It's not bad advice imo, just doesn't apply to everyone the same way.

anononaut 3 years ago | | |

It does seem that it applies to everyone in _some_ way, at least.

mromanuk 3 years ago |

Regarding kids, wife and family, you are not late at all. A friend of mine had recently his first kid at 48, he is very happy.

If you need a framework for working with psychological issues, I recommend ACT (my wife is a psychology therapist and an expert in that field). It's possible that your current lifestyle or situation is not aligned with your values, so you may need to make some changes to better fulfill what is important to you. Changing can be difficult, but in Western society, we often try to avoid discomfort instead of embracing it. However, it's often necessary to embrace discomfort in order to thrive.

blueyes 3 years ago | |

Second plug here for ACT

https://www.amazon.com/Get-Your-Mind-Into-Life/dp/1572244259

It's a strong combo of CBT and Buddhist meditation concepts.

nevada-blackhat 3 years ago |

I had similar dark thoughts as I approached age 40. I had suffered an emotionaly - and financially - draining marriage that cost me seven years, and a house. After retiring from the miltary at 35, I moved back in with my parents. What I thought would be my post-retirement dream job (laser engraving) only lasted a month. The next job (commercial computer technician) while vastly expanding my computer knowledge, only lasted 13 months. I didn't know what to do next.

Due to the security clearance I had in the military, I couldn't seek out mental help without risking the loss of my clearance and special programs access, so instead I would privately write down what I was feeling. This went on for months, then years. I'd go back and read through it, reliving the darkness. Then, one day at my parents' home, I decided it was time to move on from the pain of the past. I took all of those pages of dark thoughts and one-by-one, burned them all. The smoke blackened my face, but when I washed the soot away, I was a new man.

Secure in my third job (K-12 computer tech) I broke out of my shell at age 40, dating women anywhere from 20 years younger to 20 years older. Without expecting it, I connected with a student's mother (that's closer to my age) at the student's graduation party. We got married the following year, bought a house the year after that, and have been together now for 21 years. I'm 62, and loving life.

You can do it, brother. You can get though this. Seek therapy if it's available - or start writing those thoughts down. Then, when you think you've written enough - burn that baggage, and move forward. Good things can come when you least expect it.

PS: I've lurked at Hacker News for years. Your post inspired me to join and reach out to you.

ws404 3 years ago |

My family has a healthy dose of depression passed down. I can read it in every word you're writing. It's just a chemical reaction, you can defeat it but it will be tough. Incremental improvement is crucial, you don't need to make big changes, but small ones.

Achievement cures depression. Any achievement. Dead time exacerbates depression - i.e. watching TV, drinking, drugs, playing mindless games, social media, porn, hell even reading sometimes if it's trash and you're just reading to escape your reality. One to two hours of entertainment time a day is fine, but more than that will just make you feel worse. Quit escaping your life because it's shitty or it will remain shitty.

So try this, set a small goal for yourself, either fitness or professional. You could take an online course to refresh your BI skills. Give that 100%. Knock it out, get some kind of certificate. Frame it.

Fitness always makes me feel better (plus it boosts serotonin). Try the "Couch to 5k" program online. You start just doing a light walk and jog, next thing you know you're running a race. That will make you feel great, I promise, it's awesome. If you have bad knees or something buy a bike, do a bike race.

Pick one small thing that you can win at, a relatively easy goal. Demolish it. The rest will come as you continue to set small goals and string wins together. String together enough and you turned it around.

Don't worry about what happened already. Stuff happened, now you just adapt and overcome.

Never quit.

sanedigital 3 years ago |

Potentially risking downvotes, since religion makes people uncomfortable, but since you mentioned mental health services are lacking, have you tried joining a local church? Priests are the original therapists, and it’s a great way to meet people.

It’s not for everyone, but if you’re struggling to find meaning in your own life, perhaps looking up is the answer?

peopucjy 3 years ago | |

I'm not a religious person, but I second this. I met my wife through a religious institution and I've also made one good friend there.

Note that the religion itself doesn't matter as long as you feel safe and comfortable with the people there.

Now, with regards to your dreams, are they really _your_ dreams? Or are you chasing them because, well, everybody else is chasing them?

I'm no therapist so please take this advice with a grain of salt, but I _felt_ my life improving when I stopped chasing for things that I actually didn't value much, such as a prestígios career, a beautiful home and family, a nice car, traveling the world, buying a big TV, etc. After much introspection, I realized that as long as I can pay my bills, have food on the table, and have the company of my wife and dog, I don't really need more than that.

Obviously we're all different and each of us will have different _needs_, but the _wants_ can be quite similar because of what we've been told our entire lives.

elwell 3 years ago | |

A lot of depression and lost hope is truly a fair assessment of this short life on earth. I believe we will find satisfying and lasting meaning by connecting with God.

"He has planted eternity in the human heart" -- Ecclesiastes 3:11

o_nate 3 years ago | |

That would be my advice. Find a church or other religious community that you can plug yourself into. Maybe get a dog too. If nothing else, it forces you to get out of bed in the morning.

mikece 3 years ago |

I recently watched a YouTube video in which Joe Buissink was interviewed. Joe BEGAN photography at 43 and became one of the most sought after wedding photographers on the west coast, charging up to $50,000 per wedding. I've loved photography for more than 20 years and even did some low-end wedding and portrait work over 10 years ago but was thinking that I was merely a mediocre photographer who wouldn't ever improve my skills to the point of being truly in demand until I watched that video. If you want to do something, DO IT. If you're not good at it today, PRACTICE. The only thing that can prevent you from improving and achieving is deciding you aren't going to try.

jrochkind1 3 years ago |

I'm also in my 40s, and also not super happy with my current life. I have no magic bullet, but wanted to say: People I know in their 70s and 80s have insisted to me that in your 40s the best of your life is not behind you.

(To me, this is just more terrifying, oh no, so I have to make THESE years count too and have no excuse for them being crappy? haha).

But other thoughts...

* These days you can talk to a therapist over zoom

* Do you have legal permission to move back to US right now? If so, and you want to... do it? Putting together a plan to get back will give you some direction

ta2934983734 3 years ago |

Throwaway account

I am turning my life around and I am 46. I have taken the first steps to move away from the IT industry and my golden handcuffs - both of which I loathe.

I have mended the relationship to my wife - and mending it with my kids. All of which I love. A single signature away from divorce was turned around into a fruitful partnership.

I have left the big city in favour of rural life. The air is clean. The world is silent. My mind is calmer.

It is hard. Financially, physically and emotionally. But chopping wood at 6AM in a snow clad landscape, while the sun is coming up, is bliss. I am healing.

I have no idea about what I'm doing. I have no education in agriculture, no handyman skills, no construction vocabulary, can't tell plants apart but I am happier. Nicer to the kids. Patient. Bring my wife flowers. Chat with the neighbours who think I'm a freak. Laugh at myself. It's good.

It is not too late my friend. There are plenty of women. Many of them have kids but no husbands. Some of the kids have no fathers. There is a need for you in this world. There are people who need your love. There are people you need to love.

And yes, like all the other comments, go see a therapist. You're vulnerable. What a perfect start you're off to.

Small steps my friend. Small steps. You've got this mate.

DrNosferatu 3 years ago |

Therapy is a must.

You are in Germany, is this correct?

(if not, and if you have the possibility [from your username], actually consider moving back there as access to free mental health care is much easier)

Germany has Krankenkassa-covered access to therapy, and even Krankenkassa-covered clinics specializing in recovery from depression and other conditions - many times no pills, multimodal talk and art therapy approaches.

See any registered family doctor / Hausarzt ASAP: speak about your symptoms and ask about your options. If you are an EU citizen and already living in Germany, you will be covered by the European Health Insurance Card.

If you don't speak German, there are several 'tricks' to make the system work for you nevertheless ;)

PS: Resort only to *licensed*, accredited professionals - accept only what's paid by the Krankenkassa, as they have made the due-diligence. You shouldn't have to pay (almost) anything yourself!

Finally, very important: Make sure you only engage with professionals YOU FEEL comfortable with. The German system allows you to try out a number of different therapists before committing to one - ask the doctor who will prescribe the psychotherapy how this works, or your Krankenkassa directly.

soheil 3 years ago | |

I'd go one step further and recommend a real doctor, a psychiatrist.

DrNosferatu 3 years ago | | |

The professionals providing the treatment will decide.

Nevertheless IMHO, I think at least a component of therapy is paramount, as there is the need to change the life outlook to a growth one. You can't do that on pills alone.

bobjordan 3 years ago |

There’s lots of good comments about mental health support, agree with those recommendations. But, I just want to mention, how very beneficial a program of physical exercise is for a man in their 40s. I’m 47, my experience is, I had let myself grow old prematurely due to lack of physical activity, from focusing on sitting at the computer a decade. My home life with my partner was awful, I had grown fat and lost my vigor, I was on the cusp of losing my partner and watching my family break apart. That would have definitely negatively impacted my business too. So, this year I started going to the gym, lost 30lbs, grew some muscle mass, changed myself physically which changed my mentality and now ultimately, I’ve pulled off a complete 180 in my life this year. I will also encourage you to have your testosterone levels checked and if they are at the lower end of the reference range, consider starting a TRT program. TRT + exercise for a man in their 40s is probably the closest thing that exists to a real fountain of youth.

fnord123 3 years ago |

This is above HN's paygrade.

International Suicide Crisis Hotline directory:

https://findahelpline.com/i/iasp

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_suicide_crisis_lines

If you are posting this kind of message on HN then you're at a point that you can call for a 1-1 chat. There are people who can listen. Don't rely on social media to do this.

thesaintlives 3 years ago |

Dude! Get a grip. 43? You still have plenty of time to meet all your objectives. Women, family, career etc. You need a complete change of outlook. Spend some of that money and get psychological counselling. A positive outlook generates results, it is that simple. Get the mental tools to deal with life and build your house!

beachy 3 years ago | |

This advice is confrontational but somewhat true.

At 47 you are at the half way mark in life. There's plenty of time left, but yes you need to get a move on.

You are a great age to meet your future wife, who will still be young enough to have a baby.

You have your health, which is the great enabler that you need to follow any of the other great advice from here.

You have great job skills, you probably don't need to face up to working evening shift at Starbucks to make ends meet.

Look on this as a puzzle with most of the pieces already solved. Just a couple more to go, and the board will become easier.

c22 3 years ago |

I turned my life around in my late 30s, it can be done.

At your age, and probably for another decade, a lot of women in your dating range will be feeling biological pressure to have children, so this is still on the table. Maybe look for a wife who has been too focused on her career to settle down but otherwise doesn't possess major personality flaws. Proceed cautiously since at this age major personality flaws is a big reason some people are still single. Also make sure you get your own shit in order before you seriously approach the dating issue (this should give you 2-5 years to work on yourself first). If you go this route be prepared to take on a larger portion of the homemaker role than you may have expected.

radu_floricica 3 years ago |

> I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few. Every night I promise myself to do/be better tomorrow and somehow get myself to sleep. I was once looked up to, now I'm a pity case and an example case of how not to throw one's life away.

This is one of the few advantages of men in dating: it's not over until the fat lady sings. It takes you anything from 3-12 months to get back in proper dating shape, pretty much from any starting point. 43 is a _great_ age, once you fix that.

I'm going out on a limb and say you're not a big athlete. In this case, there is no such thing as overtraining. You get a free pass of around 6 months in which you need protein, sleep and water, and after that the sky's the limit: you can go to the gym twice a day and do both cardio and weightlifting in both sessions.

ohyes 3 years ago |

I’m sorry life hasn’t gone the way you wanted it. Unfortunately almost no one’s life does, this is just a fact of life. Many things that seems to be promised or “owed” us turn out to not be, or to be struggles. Depression is very real, and really does require professional help sometimes to get out of it. So I would suggest getting help if you can afford it.

On the bright side, your life is far from over, 43 is still plenty young enough to have meaningful relationships and build a career if you want to, it just requires that you out yourself in the correct situations repeatedly. You can still get married and have children if you want, you’re definitely not that old. Many people move on to their second marriage at your age.

I would suggest, that rather than promising yourself radical change each night, promise yourself one small change that you’ll make tomorrow. Just a single thing that will make your life better. It can be as simple as going for a walk or cleaning a single room. Do it first thing so you don’t procrastinate on it all day, banking an accomplishment each day is small and easy, but when you look back at a month of that you’ll have accomplished a lot and you’ll start to have a habit of doing things.

ctocoder 3 years ago |

You are focused on what your life could of been / should of been and are devaluing the true gift you have.

Get past that should of it is judgement that leads to no outcomes

Could of is an assumption that did not happen.

Your gift? Let me put it in a way that all who are in this community will read will understand. You are an engineer.

There are close to 9 billion people on the planet. There are roughly 80 million engineers. You don’t get to this level by chance but because you can, your part of the .8% of the people of the world who can build it. You don’t lose your abilities they just get rusty.

My advise to you is stop thinking about what should of or could of or if my dad was here as cold as this sounds. Instead keep pushing. Be what you are. Build something and then sell it-you are an Engineer you can do anything.

DebtDeflation 3 years ago | |

This is a great point. He has a Masters in Engineering from a US university and several years of experience in implementing "BI Reporting/Analytics", finding a decent job really shouldn't be that difficult. He is going to have to come up with a good explanation for the "what have you been doing for the last 10-15 years?" question since "caring for his ill father" seems to only cover the first year of his absence from the workforce.

notjustanymike 3 years ago |

You're struggling with visualizing how to start your ideal life. Like any task, it feels monumental because you're at the bottom of a mountain looking up. So start at the top - imagine your perfect day.

You identified a wife, job, maybe kids. You come home after a fulfilling day of work, have a nice dinner with the family, and feel a sense of content. Now rewind, and focus and focus on a single trail. What steps lead to this moment?

You came from work; where do you work? What do you do there? When did you start? Why did you ace the interview? How did you get the interview? What made you feel ready to interview?

Do this exercise for each facet of your life you care about, and work all the way back to the first achievable step. Then take that step.

protolynne 3 years ago |

Hello friend, As a 40 year young woman, I went through very similar challenges and am still working through creating the motivation to move forward. I did get help from a therapist and have begun the process of reparenting myself, allowing for my inner child to be respected and have a voice. I would often jump into commmitments with work, school, relationship that were not right for me. Now, I am taking my time step by step to ensure the decisions I make are based on my desires and needs to avoid previous circumstances. At 40, I too wonder if I will be able to achieve the goals for a fullfilling relatiinship and family. There are a lot of us out here, thinking we are alone in this but we are very similar. I found a therapist I could talk to and this really helped me forge trust over time. If the therapist is not the right fit, try another. It's like finding a mechanic or dentist you trust so it's possible & important. Maybe the parts of your psyche that want to die, need to do just that but the whole of you can keep living. After my dear grandmother/ best friend, died a death with great suffering - it destroyed me. It has taken 5 years just to crawl out of that hole and begin to recover. Ppl don't recognize the value, courage and strain it takes to be there for the ones we love in their passing. This is one of the most benevolent acts a human can bestow upon another - honoring the sacred and brutal process of dying. Yes, an online or virtual therapist may be the only option for you but it can be effective. I have a dog who saved my heart. Forcing me to walk him every day gave me reason to get out of bed. My dog showed me every day that joy can be found in the little things like taking the exact same walk, every day but with new eyes. Walking every day helped to energetically boost and release toxins/ mindset. Given you hope to leave Germany, getting a dog would not be humane because you cannot commit to the long term. I did, however, used to dogwalk as a volunteer in a local shelter and this was very rewarding as those poor animals are stuck inside until someone like you comes along to brighten their day.

Sending love your way as I know it's not easy. Like my granny used to say, "You're not old till your 87". She lived to 97 and walked every day. I miss her dearly but know she want me to live my best life so I continue to push forward in recovery. I recognize that sometimes emotional, psychological and spiritual death are a necessary part of transformation and rebirth. Like fire for the forest. From the ashes, you can rise

larve 3 years ago |

Managed to lift myself out of a suicidal hole that started when I was around 7-8. It started with quitting smoking and picking up exercise, which did seem to make a lot of the underlying substrate of hopelessness recede. Then came the pandemic, which allowed me to step back from human interaction and day to day noise enough to realize how much calmer my life could be. I picked up mountain biking which reconnected with my inner child to just go out and discover stuff, plus spending a significant amount of time in nature.

This finally culminated in finding the autistic community on twitter, which put my entire life on its head, and finally shed a very different light on the difficulties I face, and where the constant suicidal thoughts were coming from. I know approach a lot of things through the lens of disability. There are a lot of things I just can't power through and learn and work on, and instead of trying even harder, approaching them by finding accomodations. This is an ongoing process, but it changed my life from never ending gloom to being very content. I have a lot of lucky circumstances that made this relatively smooth for me, and I have no idea if this is even true for me, but exercise and structuring my day felt like the catalyst, which set a healthy foundation for productive and positive introspection.

Getting ADHD meds was a significant part of me keeping this approach up in a professional and relationship setting.

rex-mundi 3 years ago | |

Fellow ADHD austisic here. Who do you follow on Twitter that helped you?

Also anything else that helped with either ADHD or autism, ADHD meds don't work for me so I'm struggling to find something that does

larve 3 years ago | | |

I would say the #actuallyautistic hashtag in general (now on mastodon), and I really enjoyed the book "unmasking autism" by Devon Price and Neuroqueer Heresies by Nick Walker.

A_Venom_Roll 3 years ago | |

Loved reading your post man.

dazc 3 years ago |

I fell into a deep depression at your age as a consequence of a sudden lack of prospects, going from a hectic and busy lifestyle to sitting around doing absolutely nothing all day.

I eventually clawed my way out and I look back now and just think it was something I had to go through. The feeling of doom and hopelessness does fade away over time and you will be in more positive frame of mind at some time in the future.

On a positive note you have some cash savings and the presence of mind to ask for help. I'm not going to say there is some magic route you can take that's going to turn your life around overnight but the longer you hang in there more the chance of something happening that will provide the spark you need to start thinking positively again.

I burned through all my cash, asked help from nobody and ended up living on the street. I still managed to recover though, so don't ever think your situation is hopeless.

itsoktocry 3 years ago |

I'm not sure I'm "good" at answering these kind of posts, but I'm the same age. I can't speak to everything, but I can to a couple things:

>I know the best of my life is behind me

Simply not true. This is a mindset thing, I think. I had a great time in my 20s and 30s, no regrets. But I wouldn't go back there for anything. Everything about being older and wiser feels better to me. Sure, I'm slowing down physically, but that's something I can (and do) easily work on.

>As I stand, I have no current skills related to either my education (MEng) or my previous work experience (BI Reporting/Analytics). I don't have ideas/skills/network for entrepreneurship.

So, this is going to be tough in the short term, no lies. But it's not insurmountable.

We're going to go through a little bit of a rough patch in hiring in this space thanks to the recession that's coming or we are already in. It sucks, but that's the way these economic cycles work.

But it sounds to me you are related to a hot segment of the economy. Take this time to catch up on the state-of-the-art. Data literacy is not going anywhere. Learn about and play with the tools of the Modern Data Stack. There are entirely new roles out there you can get into in this space: Data Engineering, Analytics Engineering, etc. Take whatever work you can in the space to get something on your resume. When the economy recovers you'll have no problem earning a living in the space.

adolph 3 years ago | |

This is an excellent comment. Exerting the effort in understanding and modifying mindset is critical to success in other changes. Humans often focus on negative, risk avoidant to a fault of penny-wise/pound-foolish.

https://medium.com/mindset-matters/who-said-the-only-constan...

https://www.wendysuzuki.com/good-anxiety

andy_ppp 3 years ago |

I would start off finding some CBT and a professional to help you turn things around. The problem you have is framing things badly - being depressed/wallowing in how you’ve wasted your life is not going to help you. Movement is vitally important, if you’re stuck change your location even for a summer - for example I would consider if you have the money taking a trip to India and find an ashram (I can recommend Sivananda) they helped me a lot. For $12 per night you get accommodation, delicious vegetarian food and 4h yoga per day (also you’ll get some practice interacting with women) will sort out any of the over thinking you seem to be experiencing. That’s just an example of the freedom you have to still do things that excite you, maybe it’s Machu Picchu or the Himalayas or something else. Get out of your head and make a plan.

I’m far from perfect but I’ve been doing what I call 75 medium hard (you can google the original plan 75 hard). It’s basically a 45 min walk, 45 mins other exercise (I alternate strength training and zone 2 indoor cycling), read 10 pages of a book, drink at least 2 litres of water in addition to other drinks, have a diet with no alcohol. It is starting to feel really good every time I succeed every day and it’s day 18 now. Also if you want to be less worried about your own problems I’d strongly advise reading Man’s Search for Meaning - a book with such astonishing darkness in it that it’s impossible to feel self pity while reading it.

I hope you realise that you aren’t as stuck as you believe and that a few forward moves can really get you back on track a lot quicker than you think. Stop thinking and start acting.

runjake 3 years ago |

1. You need to see a therapist. It will help you immensely and probably isn't that expensive. It wasn't for me. With a decent therapist, it'll start paying for itself by the second or third visit.

2. Know that the rest of us your age have or are going through the same thing as you. I figure it's our mid-life crisis. Maybe we need a private support group Discord or something.

Me personally, I've detached from it. I don't ignore it. I recognize what it is and evaluate it's lessons, but I don't allow it to affect my core state, sometimes that's hard, but I work to get back on track as soon as possible.

I got married and had (three kids) late in life. It's not too late for you at 43.

3. Family deaths are a natural part of our lives as we get older.

4. It sounds like you've had an accomplished life. You've accomplished a good education and an advanced-level career.

I've had the same exact thoughts myself, and then one time, I listed out all the many accomplishments or neat things I've experienced in my life and I kinda keep that as a reminder.

5. Know that whether the best of your life is behind you is up to you.

Get therapy and get back on track. You need to take action immediately, without delay, not after the holidays and find a therapist with decent reviews and commit to one visit right now.

PS: For those even older people reading: you can turn your life around at 50, 60, 70, or 80, as well. Life is a gift -- even the hard parts, enjoy it, until you can't.

sokoloff 3 years ago |

Whatever water has passed by the bridge is passed. Ignore it.

If you’re healthy, mid-40s, positive net worth, logical mind, and engineering degree, you’re starting so far ahead of the median condition that it’s almost not funny.

The tech job market is temporarily depressed, but I think that will start coming back in 2023.

Don’t focus on the past; realize you have a great position right now and that it’s just a framing question as to whether you see right now as a starting point or not.

Mid-40s is not too late to have a spouse, kids, a house, etc. Plenty of people have started from far worse and done just fine without any exceptional luck.

lnsru 3 years ago |

If you are in/around Munich let’s have a beer/coffee. Xmas time was often very uncomfortable for me trying sort my life out. My email is in my profile.

clnq 3 years ago |

I was depressed and NEET for about a decade too. Cognitive behavioral therapy helped me get a better outlook on life and put me on track to a successful career.

My advice is to be humble and open-minded to things that can drastically improve your life.

Do not think you are entitled to anything because you have a degree or for some other reason; let go of those thoughts - they can make it seem like you don't have an employment option "good enough" for you or that nothing you do could give you the luxury/quality in life you expect. Accept that you will need to start at the entry level. Let go of all expectations. It should feel very freeing.

Then become open to doing the things that push you toward your goals. First, consider what you want in your life as a next step. Is it therapy? Is it getting a job? Is it something else? Pick one, and focus on that. Secondly, execute without judgment and thought. Once you plan, do it without thinking, like a ribosome translating RNA into a polypeptide. It doesn't care whether the protein it builds is good or "right." It just does it by script. And so can you. If you wish to do therapy, just show up in your sessions. If you want a job, just pick an easy entry-level role and attend the interviews. Whatever you decide to do, start executing and never stop. Even if you just do one task a day (like today you research therapists available to you, tomorrow you call one, the day after that you call another; or today you decide what job you want, tomorrow you research how your resume should look, the day after you update your resume, then you look for open roles, then you apply).

Whatever you do, make it easy for yourself by removing judgment, expectations, and time pressure. But once you start, do not stop.

haywood 3 years ago |

Not 40 but about to turn 37: I hired a personal trainer that I see twice a week with the goal of getting as strong as possible (not focusing on weight loss which I think is important).

The change in 6 months has been unbelievable. I have put on a ton of muscle, gained a ton of strength, my metabolic health is now PERFECT, and I have a ton of energy and vigor which is spilling over into the rest of my life.

Getting physically strong and fit is an incredible place to start when you're feeling directionless. And with a personal trainer all you have to do is show up for the session and do the work. If you can find someone who has a private studio that's even better (imo) because it takes away the whole gym culture aspect that can be intimidating.

dbspin 3 years ago | |

Not to knock your fitness achievements (well done). But OP pretty clearly isn't in the earnings bracket to afford a personal trainer.

haywood 3 years ago | | |

thanks, and you're probably right. But I do want to say for anyone looking on, personal trainers can be way cheaper than you'd expect, like half the price of a massage, I pay 50 bucks a session. Which again, isn't nothing, but in hindsight I would have payed way more for what I ended up getting out of it.

josh33 3 years ago |

Hi brother - just know you have intrinsic worth beyond what the world sees (or what you think the world sees). You have overcome lots of challenges in life to even get to your 40's; no one escapes challenges.

Might I recommend an outward approach? Look for an opportunity to serve someone around you and evaluate how you feel after that experience. The lift in your emotions will also power you to overcome the next challenge you are facing/will face.

I also strongly recommend therapy. It has literally saved my life. I had to bounce around to a few therapists before I found one that really resonated with me, but that external resource gave me a way to evaluate my life and decisions without my own bias.

rbanffy 3 years ago |

A few things:

The HN crowd is not known for kindness, but you can use sincere and reason-based advice, something for which the HN crowd is excellent at.

I remarried in my early 40's, after leaving a mutually abusive relationship. And we got a lovely daughter (with two amazing older half-brothers from my previous marriage), moved to Ireland and fell in love for the country. You are not past your prime - while I miss my 20's brain plasticity, there's a ton of new content in my brain that would have been extremely useful in my 20's. As for love, it's a lottery. You may find it, you may not.

The MEng degree is a very versatile tool. I'm a BEng and the problem-solving mindset has been the foundation of my career, as a software engineer, then as a 3D VFX animator, then as an SW engineer, manager, and now architect.

As for the depression, reach out for professional help. Find a therapist you are comfortable with (it may take more than one try), and work from there. I treat mine as a debugger that helps me understand how my mind works, and where my blind spots (I've got plenty of them) are.

I'm not American, but I've considered offers to move from Brazil and Ireland at different times, and the math didn't make sense. While compensation packages are better in number, depending on where you live costs will eat into that and, since you mentioned mental health problems, I'm afraid you'd need to get social services that do not exist in the US. Your nickname suggests you are German and Germany has world renowned public healthcare system - use it until you are better. I understand you were happy in the US, and I fell in love with Northern CA during the 90's, but the country has changed, in many ways for the worse. Don't forget nostalgia is a set of rose-tinted glasses.

You may also be able to move in the EU, for warmer climates and lower cost of life. Many friends of mine are quite happy in Portugal and Spain and we are considering retiring there in a couple decades. Ireland is still hiring IT folk like crazy, but Dublin is expensive to live and your reserves are not enough for too long (you should always have enough reserves for a couple months of unemployment, more if you are at risk of getting depressed).

Good luck and feel free to vent as much as you need. I hope I was useful.

just3ws 3 years ago | |

> The HN crowd is not known for kindness, but you can use sincere and reason-based advice, something for which the HN crowd is excellent at.

ITT: How about both? :D

Scrolling through the comments and this Grinch's heart grew three sizes today.

rbanffy 3 years ago | | |

I think most of us try to be better people. It just turns out we agree to disagree on how each one will do it ;-)

s3000 3 years ago |

You are ready for a new chapter in your life. What would you like to do if there were no constraints? You have no obligations, you have no expectations to fulfill. What do you want to do, however unreasonable it seems to be?

If you want a more constrained approach:

> US$25k-equivalent in salary savings from a decade ago

> I am becoming more bitter, angry and disillusioned

Since you don't have to earn income immediately, you can do some volunteer stuff. Helping others should take care of the bitterness and the anger. The emptiness of disillusion will be filled with opportunities. On the days when you don't volunteer, do some sport because you will feel good.

Then, try some job, any job, to earn money and feel the monetary worthiness of your time. It will look good on your CV when you start applying for the jobs that you want.

Math hasn't changed. Brush it up and apply wherever you want.

wojciii 3 years ago |

You can have kids. You just need a 10 years younger wife.

I think that it's quite hard to handle the lack of sleep for more mature people so that might be a problem, but please don't think that having kids is too late. It's too late in your 70'ies.

It got my shit together in my late 30ies. Got married and got two kids.

I spent a lot of time on making myself more attractive to the opposite sex prior to meeting my wife. I ran and worked out a lot and managed to attract some attention which I didn't get when I was a nerdy fat guy.

I never lacked work but had some some time off work because I'm weird and quirky and people usually don't get me the first time.

I really like what I'm doing with my life now (being soon 45) as opposed to how I behaved 10 years ago.

So yes, it seems that its possible to turn your life around. :)

dirtybirdnj 3 years ago |

Your life is not over, you still have opportunity ahead. I am 37 going on 38 and I am just now starting to recover from a three year life struggle / burnout experience. I've had three really traumatic work experiences and I worked at a pizza kitchen and a kayak store for a while because I felt worthless and that I was no longer able to contribute to society and my friends in the way I used to.

That last part was not true. Even if you cannot immediately see its effect you have value. It felt true but it's hard to get back on your feet and most people will kick you while you are down or feign concern with self gratifying pity.

My advice to you is to sail into prevailing winds and lean into things that "fuck you back" as one of my favorite youtubers simone giertz said recently.

Be open to directions and opportunities you may not have been willing to persue. After months / years of under/unemployment I took a job that wasn't exactly what I'd been holding out for but it's getting the bills paid and providing a stability to my life that's been gone for a long time.

I missed out on some of the prime earning years of my life. Because society rejected me, not because I pissed on some electric fence. I've been honest and myself and I haven't had the support I wish I did. Life isn't fair like that.

The best you can do is just try to move forward, do things that give you some value in yourself and seek out life experiences that will enrich yourself and others. Find some other people who are interested in your preferences and relationships personal and beyond are possible. Its cliche but sometimes it comes to you when you stop looking for it.

so to sum up: I've had a similar life crisis, its been going on for about three years and I think I'm starting to trend up? I don't make nearly as much as I used to but at least I CAN pay the bills and I'm trying to work on a couple side projects that I hope will both get me some extra income as well as make me feel good for doing fun creative things that others can enjoy.

xorcist 3 years ago |

I don't want to comment on the other stuff, but 43 years old is not even half way of most professional careers. You may not be the youngest in a room but you're certainly not old.

Lots of people change their careers, go through a divorce, change continents, or go through other objectively tough experiences around this time in life. It's certainly not too late to build a family should you find someone.

The mid-life crisis is cliché for a reason.

Some people find help in therapy, but many manage without. If you have a tendency to procrastinate, maybe start with applying for a job that you won't get. I find that to be a reasonably effective method to get started with pretty much anything. With the ice broken, the next gets easier.

koliber 3 years ago |

It sounds like do have a good number of things going for you from, based just on what you wrote and how you wrote it.

Your English is great, and your writing clear and coherent. You have considerable savings, which means you were frugal when you were earning, and have made your savings last one decade already. Finishing a MechEng degree and working as an analyst shows you’re intelligent.

It sounds like you are focusing on the things that are not going for you right now. It would help you to speak more candidly with a trained professional. Finding a therapist that you can open up to and have good conversations with sounds like a good bet.

marcusverus 3 years ago |

Having turned my life around, I'm happy to offer a little advice.

You've made the important first step, which is realizing that a change needs to be made. The next step is to identify specific goals (ex: "I want to be married within five years"), which should be broken down into sub goals ("I want to go on 15 first dates this year"), which should be broken down into actionable next steps (1. "Sign up for a dating site today", 2. "Send a message on the site today" 3. "find local singles meetups for this week").

This might sound abstract, but it's necessary to crystalize your abstract goals into concrete next steps. The thought of "turning your life around" is so big that it can be oppressive and depressing. But "sign up for a dating site today"? You can do that. "Send a message on the site today"? You can do that!!

....but!

Don't fall into the trap of "working on yourself" at the expense of taking action toward your goals. You can waste days and years planning and thinking about how you will improve tomorrow. You can spend years reading self-help books about how to improve this or that aspect of your life. Take care that "working on yourself" does not become just another avenue for procrastination and self-deception. All of that thinking and planning is important, but it shouldn't come at the expense taking action. Make a plan that you can take action on today. Take those actions today. You can improve the plan later.

Also, if you're like me, your self-improvement journey will not be without back-sliding. How can you hold yourself accountable? How can you remind yourself that these goals are worth the time and effort? IMO, the answer is journaling. If you'll dedicate 5-10 minutes a day writing. Don't just list out what you did, commune with yourself. Write about your goals and your aspirations. Write about what you're doing to pursue them, write about how you fail and how you can avoid failure. Self-deception is hard as hell when you're journaling every day.

Books: Meditations, Atomic Habits, Dopamine Nation

Godspeed, sir!

sethammons 3 years ago |

https://medium.com/mid-life-survival-guide/life-after-40-get...

I can't find the story from the book The Hard Thing About Hard Things, but it was similar to some of the stories in that random article that google just fed me.

Age is just a number.

isthisthingon99 3 years ago | |

A lot of these are examples of people that built up a career and finally had a (lucky) breakout. Doesn't sound like OP.

fsloth 3 years ago | | |

Masters in US implies the OP has a past history of completing non-trivial projects. Built career is just a narrative that HR and investors like. Humans can learn quite fast lots of useful things. This is not a statement "everyone can become world champion" but rather, you don't need to become world champion to find contentment and happiness in life. Growth mentality is the key.

m1m1ck 3 years ago |

There's no such thing as too old, and no such thing as too late, unless you stop trying. There are 3 billion people on the planet, and plenty of potential mates that are in the same exact situation as you.

Getting a job is a good start and will help with both your self-confidence and your lady problems. Just like birds who choose a mate based on color, song, and nest building - humans also will look for a mate who is organized, responsible, well dressed, with good hygiene. So if you're not sure how to meet and talk to women, start with the basics: (Money) Get a job, (Nest) Get a place to stay, and keep your stuff organized and clean, (Song/social) join a music or art class or if you're not musical, try to spend time with people, either volunteering, or learning something, or join a local faith or traditional group. (Church group, excersize group, or crafting meetups), this adds some "spice" to your life even if you don't end up finding a mate.

Start by trying to make friends first, don't try for romance too soon.

mkl95 3 years ago |

> I'm a 43-years-old single guy, NEET for the past decade. I got my Master's in the US in the late 2000s and was gainfully employed there for a few years

Unless your post is missing some major red flag, your experience should make finding a job relatively easy anywhere in the globe.

My personal advice is that you build your way back up with a job that does not push you to your limits.

dmichulke 3 years ago |

I have improved my life greatly a few years earlier and it's very much feasible.

I'd recommend seeing a behavioral therapist (because it's the things you do that matter in the long-term).

I also started going to a gym, improve my social life, make an effort to have friends, identify other people's expectation and say no when they don't fit yours, ...

If you're living in a small village, chances are your living close to your family and sometimes your family is negatively affecting your well-being, that might be why you were happy in the US.

On the pro side: It sounds you have a lot of time and I suggest to start right away with reading and sports:

- No more mr. nice guy

- When i say no, I feel guilty

- Models

If you manage to run / do sports 15-45 mins per day (start slowly) you'll start thinking clearer again.

Also, taking care of your health and body is generally a good start (food, weight, movement), the better you look the easier it is to chat up people of any sex and the more you'll be respected.

All the best

remote_phone 3 years ago |

Your life isn’t turning out what you expected, but it doesn’t mean you can’t be happy. You have to accept that happiness will be different than what you pictured in your 20s.

My best friend that I’ve known for 45 years now was a fuck up. We are in our 50s and for most of his life he was lazy and borderline in poverty. He drank all his money away. But he’s a funny, nice guy. He had girlfriends but none for a long time because he’s not a keeper. Finally, he met a woman in her 40s last year and they are going to get married this year. They are planning on having a child, maybe through adoption. He finally got a permanent job as a teacher this year after struggling for a decade. He is out of debt. He is finally in a good place.

You can turn things around but embrace the fact that it won’t be traditional. It’s okay, happiness doesn’t have to be traditional.

jimhi 3 years ago |

I've been gathering a list of people who turned their life around at 35+, might be an inspiration - https://mrsteinberg.com/creatives-who-made-it-when-they-were...

thorin 3 years ago | |

And Harvey Pekar I guess, I love American Splendor.

However a lot of those people had already "made it" in some sense, but they became notable in old(er) age.

FranklinMaillot 3 years ago | |

You could add Charles Bukowski to your list. He started writing full time when he was 49 years old and had his first literary success over 50.

jimhi 3 years ago | | |

Quit the post office to be a full time writer at 49. Amazing. Added thanks.

gcheong 3 years ago |

A lot of good advice here (therapy, etc.) but one thing you might consider is just getting part-time job such as a cashier, barista, whatever. Something where you have somewhere to go and can put your mind to a task for a while but the job doesn't follow you home after so you can pursue other things more relevant to the work you eventually want to get. I think you'd be surprised how just having something to do can make you feel. It helps as well to have a daily routine that you execute ( and having a job can help with this) without much thought but without fail to keep some momentum up instead of just sitting around with your thoughts day in and day out.

_8j50 3 years ago |

I am not in a position to give advice to anyone but:

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago, the second best time:now" -- old Chinese proverb I believe.

Hope, in my experience is the most powerful force to help you turn things around. But at the same time, few things are as cruel as hope when it is crushed. Ultimately the choice is yours on whether you consider hope as worth having.

dustymcp 3 years ago |

My mother in law lost her business at 45 as a hairdresser, lost most of her savings and had to redo her life entirely, she ended up taking a class and switching to caring for disabled/mentally challenged? people in a sort of nursing/living facility, it completely changed her for the better (no stress or anxiety) maybe you need to flip the script aswell?

PikelEmi 3 years ago |

You absolutely do not have the best behind you! My bug "turnaround" came in the beginning of mt 50ies. Finally got to a stage in job life I like and also meet the woman of my life (after many years as single) and got married. I still feel that I haven't had the best yet when it come to job life and I plan to continue at least 20+ years working and have no plans of retirement. Today it make no sense at all to think about age, just keep up your motivation, drive and stay healthy and you can go on "forever". Find out what you really want to do and do it. There are no limits here in life

creatingreality 3 years ago |

Seems like you’re taking an approach of - things are happening to me, instead of things are happening for me. This view closes off numerous possibilities and opportunities. It’s a vicious cycle where you keep reinforcing your beliefs instead of looking at how you can do things differently. Try to take a alternate perspective on what is happening in your life. Ask yourself, this thing that is happening, what opportunities is it creating for me? Think about these things from a different perspective than you currently hold and keep challenging yourself to do so, even in “good times”.

mikelevins 3 years ago |

It can be done. I did it. In my mid 40s I developed a chronic illness that rendered me unable to work for a few years. It bankrupted me and sank my career before I found the right doctor and started rebuilding. I had to more or less start over from nothing.

The life I've had since then is not the one I thought I was going to have. For one thing, I have a lot less money than I thought I was going to have. My professional career went in a very different direction from what I expected. My hobbies changed drastically. My circle of friends changed, too.

Still, in many ways I think the life I have now is better than the one I was building before. I miss some things, but I'm happier with this one than the one I had before.

So don't give up. Your best days may well be ahead of you.

Get some professional help. It sounds like you're going to need to travel to do it, but try. A good therapist will teach you skills you can use to help yourself. Of course, it's then up to you to actually use them.

Until then, train your attention to focus on things that help you instead of things that hurt you. It's hard to change what you habitually think about, but it can be done. Our minds want to wander back to familiar thoughts, especially ones with a lot of emotional power, but you can persist. You can keep turning your attention to more constructive things, and it will gradually get easier to do. Just don't give up when it doesn't get instantly better. It takes time and persistence.

Telling yourself things like "I'm past my prime", "It's too late," "I let life pass me by" can't help you, but they can hurt you. So use your attention differently. Focus on what's in right front of you, not on what's behind you. Focus on what you can do, not on what you can't do. Measure your life by what you think is worth doing for its own sake, not by comparing yourself to imaginary outcomes.

Choose things to do that you respect, and do them because you respect them. Don't worry too much about the outcomes; those are mostly out of your hands, anyway. Just keep your attention on things that you respect and believe in.

When you do, sometimes what you do will help other people. Sometimes those people will want to return the favor. Sometimes those returned favors will turn into friendships. Sometimes your friends will help you.

It worked for me. It might work for you. I wish you the best of luck.

lallysingh 3 years ago |

43's a great time to reinvent yourself. You don't have to look at your progress on the plan you probably put together for yourself in your late teens/early 20s (engineer / wife /kids).

Let's talk about steps:

> There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I live. I let my professional network decay and die, and there is literally nowhere else I can get any kind of useful, actionable advice.

(1) Get out of that town. Both problems you have are easily solvable with moving a few hours away from where you are now. Find a therapist, find professional meetups/orgs/etc.

> I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few.

(2) Frankly, work on just one of those (hint: start with a girlfriend, figure out wife later; you actually have plenty of time, and the standards drop as your competitive pool shrinks). The others will come a lot easier. See #1 for how to make that situation easier.

> With every passing day, I am becoming more bitter, angry and disillusioned. I don't want to live like this anymore,

(3a) Part of that sounds like grieving. I'm guessing on this part: did your dad provide you some of your motivation and direction? If so, that's a second loss.

(3b) What are you doing for fun? Do more fun stuff. This isn't frivolous, it's survival. Men in their 40s (I'm one too) forget to actually enjoy their lives. You have time, and you have health, and you have necessity for it. Your depression justifies more effort in enjoying yourself.

So, as you're asking for advice, I'll give it. Move. Move somewhere that has good therapeutic, social, professional, and recreational potential. BTW: it's more important to go where there's people than somewhere with good rental prices. Suck up a crap apartment to have fun again. The nice thing about renting is that you can rent somewhere else a short time later.

If you want really good advice that I'll probably get flamed for: Get a motorcycle. There's an old saying that you don't see motorcycles parked in front of therapists' offices. Riding is pure meditation and you don't need to have any friends at all to enjoy. It also makes you more interesting and respectable. As you're in your 40s and a professional, a BMW GS is kinda presumed (I also have one).

sanitycheck 3 years ago |

One thing at a time. As a fellow procrastinator, I couldn't contemplate trying to fix everything at once!

You don't think you're currently employable in a field you'd like to be in, but there's no question that you have the ability required to do those jobs. How about doing a bootcamp then entering the workforce as a "bootcamp grad"? Your previous knowledge and experience should make climbing the ladder from there relatively easy, you just need a foot in the door.

If you're not currently eligible to work in the US, all is not lost. There are definitely more interesting and lively places to be than your small town, and if you're in the EU moving to one of them should be straightforward. Make a list of cities you'd like to live in, apply for jobs in those places.

So now you've got a job, and are in an exciting new city. Start dating. Regarding fertility there are plenty of women in their thirties who'd be totally happy with someone ten years older, and many will be looking for someone to start a family with.

You could do things in a different order, but if you find the relationship first you risk making more strong ties to a place you don't want to live and if you find a not-great job first that may inhibit your progress towards the life you want.

Arisaka1 3 years ago |

40 years old. I used to work doing odd jobs, but during the quarantine decided to pick up programming because I was always a gamer and my desktop was where I would spent most of my time. I also have an unidentified health problem, which is to say that the symptoms are obvious to the naked eye but the cause isn't.

So I thought "maybe this will be fun to do, and if I'm good at it perhaps I'll be able to afford healthcare". At this point, I'm not delusional enough to think that this problem has a definitive treatment, but it's better to try than doing nothing.

At first I worked with the pomodoro technique, but nowadays I only use pomodoro to remind myself to take breaks. I ended up getting really addicted to studying and building stuff when initially every little red squiggly line would be an attack to my self-esteem and proof of my incompetence, but now I'm just embracing the chaos and have fun with it!

I've been working as a fullstack developer for a little over a year, and on my free time I focus to build my backend development skills. Unfortunately, my current company has no room for backend at all as they're mostly writing AI solutions, and in spite of the fact that I expressed my passion to dive deeper in API and database design my CTO gave me the cold shoulder. But at least I have some experience which I can market for my next job.

It also helps that I have no desire to have children or even date. Maybe it's my low self-esteem but I cannot imagine ever finding someone who would want me with my disease, so this career is all I love (outside of the usual hobbies).

RobertRoberts 3 years ago |

I was in the reverse situation than you, maybe something I have to offer will help. I was suicidal as a young teen, hospitalized for it (forcibly) as a risk to myself. The last time I considered suicide was in my late 30s.I have too much to say, so I will try to start with the most important.

Find someone else to care about, and do something for them. (keep doing this until you feel better)

There are so many people in trouble with so many issues. This will instantly take your mind off your own problems.

No matter what you are going to suffer. Either your suffering will be because change and taking action (against procrastination) hurts really bad. (people who dismiss this pain have never experienced it) Or you are going suffer a life of decline.

You need to have some belief and faith in the answers given to you here that they will do you any good. I've followed advice that I had no belief would work because I was at the end of my rope multiple times, but I trusted the person saying it. (what else can you do sometimes?)

Look for things to be grateful for.

I've had zero money in the bank and mouths to feed, be grateful you have a home (I assume), some money in the bank etc... Really think about these things and try and appreciate them.

I am in my later years now, and because of my past I grit my teeth and accept the pain of facing my problems head on because I've proved over and over again that yields the best results for having a satisfying life.

If you keep looking you will figure something out and find the courage, strength and hope.

nickelcitymario 3 years ago |

I think there's two big aspects to this, based on your comments.

The first is the real and relatable challenge of making a major life change in your 40s. I'm 38 and just made the decision to prioritize my health and happiness over my career, but I can only do that because my career reached a tipping point where the stress involved in each additional dollar earned was rapidly getting out of whack.

So I asked my bosses if there's an opportunity to step down and find a different role, and we're working on that right now. I can't say if this will be successful, but it's a huge relief.

So that's the first side, I think: Recognizing that we all need work that aligns with our values. I don't just mean moral values, but in terms of what you value every day.

But the second part: You're clearly seeing only the negative right now:

"I have no skills" is utter nonsense. If your brain is telling you that, you need to tell it in no uncertain terms to shut the fuck up. That negative self talk will kill you.

Everyone has skills. You also have a degree (is that a Masters in Engineering or a Masters in English?), and work experience. I don't care if it's rusty. Those are huge assets.

Maybe you can't jump right into a $250k/year job. But you also don't need to flip burgers.

Focus on the positive. Focus on your strengths. Stop comparing yourself to others or even to your own past. Let go of those expectations. You may find you already have a great life, or that it's not that far out of reach.

mythrwy 3 years ago | |

There's actually nothing wrong with flipping burgers. In my opinion it's more useful then what a vast number of highly paid people do for work.

robinsonb5 3 years ago |

As others have said there are no magic solutions, but when I was at a particularly low point I found this to be a helpful resource: https://moodgym.com.au/ I'll be honest, I didn't actually complete many of the exercises, but at some point something clicked and I understood and internalised the principle behind what it's trying to do (essentially training you to re-interpret your world in a more constructive and healthy fashion). Talking to an actual Cognitive Behavioural Therapist is, of course, better - but if you find it difficult to access one the website might be helpful.

The only other thing I'd say - and I know this is trite - but exercise is helpful, especially if you're facing something that feels overwhelming. I remember one particular morning shortly after my father passed away and I was starting to realise how much time and effort was going to be spent winding up his affairs. At the time I was regularly taking part in fitness classes at the gym, and nearly didn't go that morning - but I made the effort, and in that hour I went from feeling completely overwhelmed to feeling like I could take on anything.

nashashmi 3 years ago |

You need a friend. Or need to become a friend. You also need a faith. And finally you need to take some small course on the side.

Humans are: social creatures with need for personal improvement and a faith to help guide them thru life.

The rest will fall in place.

And Digital socialization won’t work.

skippyboxedhero 3 years ago |

Been through something similar (a bit younger). I am still going through it I suppose...but here is what I think.

You can put labels on yourself like: professional network is dead, single loser, prime is gone (this is all stuff I have thought too)...that stuff may be true, but you are shutting yourself down. You aren't even waiting for people to say no, you are saying no to yourself.

Ultimately, you can't change what has been.

I know what it feels like: you see someone in the news, you look and see how old they are, was their success continued through their life...but you are you. Maybe no-one has ever done it but does that mean you can't? Don't ask people online (do you want someone on here to tell you it is impossible so you don't feel as bad?), find out for yourself.

You say you lie to yourself...but you also quite critical of yourself too. Have you accepted what has already happened? You have struggled. That is it. You may get rejected if you try move past this, people will tell you no but if you are just waiting for validation passively...you will never get anywhere. This will get worse. The way out could come tomorrow.

Saying that you need to move to X or you need to do Y first...it is just an excuse for your current situation.

da39a3ee 3 years ago |

Your writing (in a second language I assume) shows that you are mature, intelligent, emotionally sophisticated and sympathetic. This is going to be highly appreciated by employers when you go back to work! Can you pick an area that's somewhat related to your MEng or BI areas and just do whatever job in a decent company for a while, make yourself known as a capable and intelligent person, in order to be in a position to look out for a more appropriate opportunity?

I quite like the suggestion that someone else had in this thread of traveling for a little bit. Take a trip somewhere crazy before you go back to work, a less developed country you've never been to before. And yes probably try moving to a new city for the new job. I think this is going to be fine; take a deep breath and remember it will happen slowly, but all the time remember that it's not easy for employers to find thoughtful people like you, especially if you can combine that with some technical skills in an area of your choosing.

A new romantic relationship and even family is obviously still possible! I'm sure you know that. Make sure people see the thoughtful, positive, mature, and intelligent side of yourself.

srameshc 3 years ago |

It's never too late for anything. You have previous experience in BI/Analytics and it's still a good area to work in, lots of resources on the internet if you want to pickup a new tool. Focus on the positive aspects of life and count on your strengths and you will soon be on a roll. Walking/running has helped me personally both physically and mentally, so I will recommend that the most. Wishing you the very best.

plutonorm 3 years ago |

Look inwards at your emotions, observe them. Find where they are located, in the body. Analyse them. Learn to recreate those feelings by thinking and moving the body in just the right way. Our emotions work like our hands or legs, they are physical, you can learn to see them analyse them and ultimately control them. You have a problem where reflexive muscular memories are being triggered at a level below your awareness, creating emotions you have no need for. Dig into them bring them into awareness and shut down the ones that are not useful to you. Work out what you want. Of you don't know what you want, make that your goal. Meditate on it, draw, write, speak all of it. You need that moment of fight that you get when you are threatened. Do not be ashamed of that response or imagine it to be inappropriate or useless. Embrace those feelings that get you where you want to go and cast aside those which do not serve you. It's not easy, but at the bottom of all of us is a place of total belief, of complete power. Use that self that will not give in, give it power.

photochemsyn 3 years ago |

Well, yes. You can definitely do this, but you really have to find something you care about and that motivates you to get up and go. Many people have changed their lives in their forties and fifties by doing this. I do think there are some ground rules, however.

1) Willingness to put in the hours of work required to acquire new skills, even if this may be harder for older people than it was when you were in your 20s. Set a schedule and stick to it.

2) Willingness to work with other people who may be younger and more skilled than you are in your new area, i.e. put your ego aside and accept a junior role relative to people who may be a decade or more younger than you.

3) Eliminating alcohol and recreational drugs, and getting your body into decent shape via an exercise program - it can be light exercise, but if you're working your mind all the time, you have to do the same with your body.

There are no guarantees of success, of course. Some useful resources are community college courses in areas you are interested in and which might result in job opportunities, online forums of various sorts, public libraries which provide books and other learning opportunities relative to what you think you might like to do. Overcoming procrastination and laziness should be at the top of your mind at all times.

Most importantly, it's just the feeling that you're moving forward that is worth the effort. It's like a fish swimming upstream against the current - at least you're getting somewhere - vs. a log being swept downstream by factors out of your control.

As far as breaking out of a depressive episode, I hesitate to give anyone any advice, but psychedelic therapy (psilocybin) under controlled conditions has a good track record for many people, if available. I think adopting a program of physical and mental exercise is more valuable in the long run, however.

savgore 3 years ago |

I can't give too much advice as any authority - but I can tell you that a wife, kids, a house and meaningful work are not out of the picture for you. So many people will be in similar positions to you, and the comments seem to reflect that there's a pathway to be found. I wish you all the best in the process, and trust that you'll make it.

throwawaydehe 3 years ago |

Me. Same age as yours. Lost everything, prayed for death every day for years. But things changed - I believe am much more happy and peaceful than ever. I started earning again (not as much as earlier but still enough for me and family). The turnaround for me was step by step and gradual, nothing dramatic. But what helped was seeking help. Pls find someone to listen to you - within family , friends , someone whom you can sit and talk to. This helps. I did not seek a professional therapist (where I live its not common), but I got lucky. Things moved gradually step by step, I lived a minimalist life , prioritised things which were important to me.

I wish you good luck.

You say: >> I know the best of my life is behind me, but I need help salvaging what's left of it.

You really don't know if this is correct - you don't know what's in future for you, without that you cannot say the best of life is behind. Drop that thought and seek help.

INTPenis 3 years ago |

You need a partner. I'm only speaking from my own perspective but I used to think I was born to be a loner but having a partner awakens something in you, love basically. It's wonderful and it gives you a will to go on.

And I know it's a slog to meet someone, trust me I know. But you just have to do it. You have to make an effort and weed through dozens of weird dates before you meet someone.

For me it came completely unexpected. I had resigned myself to enjoying life, was at a computer festival and suddenly there she was.

I know several people who turned their life around at 40, in fact I used to say that it's a cut off point. If you haven't turned yourself around by then, you might just end up dead. I'm sorry to be so frank, but that was how I thought before I read your post so it has nothing to do with you.

But in my perspective it has been mostly career criminals and addicts. So that's where I'm coming from.

balfirevic 3 years ago | |

> You have to make an effort and weed through dozens of weird dates before you meet someone.

> I had resigned myself to enjoying life, was at a computer festival and suddenly there she was.

What you recommend seems to be the opposite of what worked for you.

INTPenis 3 years ago | | |

It has worked though, I had just taken a break from that at the moment.

Out of personal experience here in Sweden I'd say out of 5 women I met on dating sites, 1 seemed like a keeper. That is after chatting for a while, the number is probably 5 times that for how many I've had contact with through dating sites.

So I'm not very active, because I just think it's so soul crushing.

andix 3 years ago |

You are 43 not 83. And you are a man, so even having kids is not off the table. Yes, it’s possible to turn your life around. And yes, there are people who did that.

But it seems like you are looking for help doing that. Its great that you are asking for help, I think this approach will get you somewhere. HN may not be the best place though.

pydanny 3 years ago |

At 40 I had a stalled career and an unfortunate marriage where we truly disliked reach other; I was extremely unhappy and bitter. I felt that I was stuck and wondered if this was my lot in life.

I stepped clear. I got divorced. I started over. The coding skills I had I re-applied to things I wanted to do. My ex moved on and found someone good for her.

In the years that followed I found the love of my life and had a beautiful daughter. Restarting was a great move for me.

But a lot of the bitterness and anger remained. I've been a total jerk at times. It took a long time to get over the frustrations caused by staying in my old place for so long. I found therapy and constructive outlets for myself, got over many of the dark feelings, and I believe I've become a better person for it.

My story is my own, not yours. However, what I can say is get yourself to a therapist. If you can change your life now, why not try to do so?

pravint 3 years ago |

43 is young.. on professional side, you can learn new skills / brush up existing skills if they are still relevant (if you are in tech).. you can move to new city / country where there might be more job opportunities.. also change of place will bring fresh perspectives.

On personal side, you need therapist to talk to.. if that’s not possible, friend with whom you can share your heart would be good..

Also if you can, consider reading https://vedabase.io/en/library/bg/ to get fresh perspectives on life and its struggles..

On health side, regular exercise, any kind of sports and staying away from alcohol or any intoxication would be helpful to make you feel better. Try to go to sleep early and wake up early.. do bit of yoga & morning walk might help you tremendously..

sombragris 3 years ago |

At 38 I had a home of my own, a lot of unfinished education but no university degree at all. Finally with the support of my folks I entered law school, graduated at 43 (here it's a 5-year degree with thesis) summa cum laude, got my master's degree, and entered academia as an university professor. I'm 52 now and while life is not perfect, it's much better than it used to be before that turining point.

As long as you are alive and moderately well, any day is good for a fresh start. The important part is to keep advancing towards your goal. If you do that, every day is going to place you a little bit closer to that. Even though you don't feel like it, you'll eventually get there. I encourage you to take stock of your potential and realize it and wish you the best.

blinding-streak 3 years ago |

Set goals. Start with small ones. "Turning your life around" is a bold statement but not necessarily very actionable. Figure out exactly what it is that you want, make a list. Rank them in order of priority.

Breaking things down into smaller pieces may help you get where you want to go. Good luck.

mastersummoner 3 years ago |

I managed to get into professional software development in my early thirties. My college track was for that, but took a severe detour after graduation. For me, a programming bootcamp helped me turn things around and get me my first job as a professional developer, though the ecosystem is a lot different now and I'm not sure how good even the best is. Highly recommend doing a lot of research before plonking down a chunk of change.

I also had my first kid at 39. It's hard, but management. A kid in your forties isn't unheard of at all, and you can absolutely meet a wonderful woman at any point in your life.

Strong agree on seeking therapy. You have a lot of options, but getting your head and heart in a good place will make the path a whole lot more evident and smooth.

personalityson 3 years ago |

Everyone goes through this. 10 more years of doom, and then it gets better

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/201207_... https://www.margithenderson.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/H... https://i.insider.com/573a14b891058428008c31fe?width=1136&fo...

patcon 3 years ago |

I'm so sorry to hear you're feeling this way. I was struggling with suicidal ideation over pandemic, and it was a really scary.

As someone who just came out of depression (brought on by some family deaths, stagnation, and pandemic), my only recommendation is this: Change something. My experience is that stasis is the enemy, rather than any one outcome being the enemy. To be more concrete, I've been told to fear homelessness or debt or solitude, but when I've changed things up without regard for these taboos, it's been surprisingly positive. Some of the happiest and most hopeful (and most physically healthy) times in my life have been while unemployed, while homeless, while living away from my established social safety net or possessionless... and at least for me, the levity and creativity of that mental space has always brought me closer to both strangers and friends (both those with families and those without). In my experience, there's a gravity to doing unexpected things, that causes humans to fall toward you.

I've found the doing an odd thing gives you an immediate something to share, and the curiosity of ppl about the odd things you're doing (and learning about) can help bolster self-esteem. It's a wonderful upward spiral.

I know not everyone is the same. (I am admittedly mostly an extrovert at heart.) But I just wanted to share, just in case. I'm just short of turning 40, and a recent change in cities -- first to visit a friend and stay on their couch, and then to move -- has rejuvenated me.

Also, please don't discount the fact that different cultures are navigating COVID VERY differently. It may be that your local culture is not suiting you. Some people choose to fight the local culture as a means of self-preservation, but if you are troubled enough to be contemplating suicide, then pls seriously consider sampling other cultures. Even if you feel stress about "leaving", pls know that this smaller departure is far better than the larger one that nags you (for both everyone who cares about you now and also those who will eventually care about you) <3

jmbwell 3 years ago |

1. See a therapist. If only to ask about therapy.

2. A symptom of this condition is distorted perceptions and beliefs. It introduces undetected errors in your rational processes. It can be difficult to think your own way out of it as a result. A professional can help you troubleshoot these errors and patch them out. Can’t recommend this enough. You can totally do it.

3. Pick someone on your insurance or out of the phone book and just go. It will be hard to take the first steps (again, depression fights to defend itself). But you can do it.

4. To answer your question, yes, people make changes in their lives to bring themselves happiness at all ages. It’s sometimes difficult, but as they say, many of the things most worth doing, are. Get a guide. Start small. Keep moving. You can do it!

johndhi 3 years ago |

My view: to start, spend half an hour thinking about the situations in which you feel happier or more energetic. Do you like exercise, driving, looking at a body of water, seeing friends, seeing family, etc.?

Then, build a schedule where you do those things. Additionally, try to refine what it is that makes you happy with those things. When you look at water, are you meditating? When you read, are you contemplating religious ideas, or coming up with imaginative fantasties?

Then you could go after that activity directly -- try meditating, try joining a fiction writing class.

Once you have a routine where you're feeling a little better, THEN do some thinking about things you might want in your life (new clothes, girlfriend, whatever). But first do the above.

Sasha914 3 years ago |

I had lost track in the mid 40s, in mid 50s now. I built a model to predict SNP and due to some technical error (network connection lost), blew up some 470,000$ in 3 hours trading futures. Had mortgage, wife/kid to support etc. Was bit rusty on java/c++/c#. So took a coupe of udemy courses to brush up. Hit gym, started running to get boost. In 2 months landed job at a start up in NYC. After that took a contracting position at a bank, and now contracting for another bank (both in NYC). Also developing code generation from english specifications on the side. Still running my SNP model. So its doable. 1. Hit gym, run 2. brush up and take up a job Its not too late. All the best.

allie1 3 years ago |

Pick a skill you would enjoy learning about, and start learning about it.

Start picking up odd jobs on upwork to practice it. Even dead simple ones will help you start practicing the craft and feel useful. Keep doing it and it will improve.

You could learn building Wordpress websites and start helping with issues around that. All you need is time and Google to figure out pretty much anything.

Once you start helping other people, even if for free, your feelings about yourself will change.

And yes, I know people who have moved into tech (digital marketing/advertising) in their 50s and made it work very, very well for them, with no prior tech knowledge. So it is possible, takes a lot of work, and it can deliver not just a decent life, but an amazing life.

ivolimmen 3 years ago |

Weird how some people have a mid-life crisis. I am 47 and I never had issues with turning older. My parents both really had issues but it seems to have skip me. Maybe it's me; I also never really hit puberty.

But focusing on you: calm down. It's never too late to start a family. Kids is certainly fun. If you you want kids and the woman you eventually find is too old for kids, adoption is also very nice and as a bonus you can skip the diapers period (I never liked that period of my kids).

Since you would like to find a woman (good start): take a holiday. There are singles holidays and I can recommend them. If you do not get a girlfriend from the trip at least you spend the time relaxing and site seeing.

vietvu 3 years ago |

I am 30, for the last 15 years I have always been thinking: What the hell do I suppose to do when I am in age of 45-50?

I will be old at by that time, not healthy, not smart and competent as I was in 20s. Obviously would be replaced by younger generations.

And I will have a couple of kids too. I will raise them, work, earn money. All of my time will be devote to that. My days will likely pass meaninglessly.

And in a couple of years I will be in retirement. And what do I suppose to do at the that time?

The future sounds boring and scary as hell.

I still think the same, and sometime thinking about it and it make me cannot fall asleep for about one hour. I don't want to live like that. However how do I want to live? I cannot answer it, I don't know.

runjake 3 years ago | |

I am 50 and can run 50 miles at a stretch, probably more.

Stop thinking like that. Stop boxing yourself in with presumptions and "prevailing wisdom."

rrr83 3 years ago |

- first take care of your health, physical and mental both. - Try smaller goals, for a week, then month. Any change would take some time so don't rush. - I would say don't go in relationship immediately until you are completely sure - I am grown up in developing country where people have much more challenges in life you might not imagine but they do their best one day at a time. Past is gone, focus on your daily routine. - See if there are any local NGOs where you can be a volunteer - Invest time in your skills based on your preference and past experience.

All the best and things will change for sure.

poulpy123 3 years ago |

As the top comment says: you need to see a psychiatrist. You are manifestly depressive, and that not something that heals by moving to another country (except the rare case of the source of the depression is the country)

mikenyc 3 years ago |

Hey man - Have so many feelings and thoughts in reading this. First, I'm sorry you're suffering. As an obviously articulate and educated person who is in reality fairly young, I'm 100% confident you have so much more potential than you're giving yourself credit for. Also, as you can see from all these responses, there's more compassion and empathy out there than it might feel like. It's ok to reach out to people for help. It's great that you took this step. I hope all these replies can serve as positive motivation/momentum for you!

I completely understand how deeply you feel these things, but I hope it empowers you a bit to know that I for one am 100% certain you absolutely can find love, have kids and get a job in your 40s.

You mentioned wanting to move back to the US, which could be a great medium/long term goal. If that feels like what you want, I'd consider setting this as a goal on the horizon and then working backwards from there to put together a realistic plan for how to achieve this. Otherwise, set a different med/long term goal like moving to some other location you prefer or maybe getting a certain type of job. Setting a clear goal and then planning towards it can have a remarkable impact on getting shit done. It doesn't need to be perfect. You can adjust your goal and your plan as you go. Take baby steps, and celebrate the small wins along the way.

Finally, since you have an engineering educational background, with remote work and online resources these days, my sense is that it would be so much easier than you feel to brush up your skills and start working again. The world is big and filled with quite a few CRUD apps! I don't have enough context to know what fits for you, but there are so many tutorials and online courses that walk you through practical exercises to build real stuff. Once you set a goal and put together a sketch of a plan, consider if it feels right to pick some online courses/tutorials and build some stuff to refresh your skills and give you some recent work to point employers/clients to. Some that I just happen to have seen lately: Buildspace (fun weekend coding projects), Replit has coding tutorials. I always like Michael Hartl's Rails Tutorial.

I hope some of this is helpful.

mbg721 3 years ago |

In addition to the other mental-health maintenance suggestions, you'll get confidence back once career things start to go right, but it may take a little while. I would suggest doing some practice-interviews before you do real ones (or practice-customers for entrepreneurship), so that you can work the hiccups out of the way without missing out on anything. "Fake it 'til you make it" is a real thing, especially in the US, and so are positive-feedback loops. It's a lot easier to work on other parts of life once income is sorted out.

Aeolun 3 years ago |

I’ve seen this part before. Sort of given up to hope to ever have a traditional family life, but they’re now a few years older with a lovely young son.

43 is not too old to start. Of course, I also recognize that it’s not quite as easy as all that, but in some ways it is. If I had to do it again I’d not be so sceptical of dating apps. At the very least it gives you a convenient excuse to meet new people.

Not sure if it’s possible to do it in the US, but there’s other countries that are easier to emigrate to. I’m not sure if moving now would be conductive to your other wishes though.

ndstephens 3 years ago |

There are many others here (on HN) and elsewhere that are in a similar situation of struggle, confusion and doubt. You asking this question has triggered almost 600 comments so far that have provided feedback, support, and personal or anecdotal evidence that it is possible (to turn one's life around). That is now hopefully benefiting those who also needed to be a part of this conversation (whether they knew it or not).

I wanted to thank you for that. I can say I'm personally benefiting from reading much of this. I hope it's helping you as well.

2-718-281-828 3 years ago |

I feel like I'm at an upward trajectory at the moment. I'm also NEET but as of now intentionally and also traveling. I meditate every day (pranayama, vipassana, zen), I work out every day, I do yoga every day, I eat healthy every day, I don't do drugs except for alcohol and that in moderation, I stopped watching porn more than a month ago, I stopped picking the skin on my nail beds finally also about a month ago, I do my best to learn what is good for me and what is harmful and then I do my best to do more of what's good and less of what's bad. Suicidal ideation - yes - but also almost gone for a while now. My convenient situation - traveling - having all the time for those things and being able to avoid the daily ordeal of working - will end in about two months. I hope I'll be able to integrate all or some of it back into "regular" life. But if I don't - I feel like I can basically copy paste your text to the T in a few years - when I myself will be in my 40s.

But what I can give you as advice is to break away from this idea that the "best part" of your life is over and you need to "salvage" something. Living happy is always about being present in the present. Age does not matter from that perspective! And you also seem like somebody who is detached from your spiritual needs - I think that's where you have to start looking. There are many inspirational interviews and talks to be found online by Eckhart Tolle, Gabor Mate and so on.

gedy 3 years ago |

43 is still young! Your body responds well to exercise, that and positive attitude can turn your relationship situation around. 40s is not too old to be a father. The world is out there, good luck.

transreal 3 years ago |

I know what you’re going through. I am part of a community of men who have the tools to help you live a good life. I’m in my 40s too and you got here by lots of small beliefs and decisions and we help each other change these so we can live in joy and gratitude instead of bitterness and disappointment. It’s not a magic bullet, and it might take time, but all it takes is a desire to change and willingness to participate. If you are interested email me at the address in my profile. It is never too late to live a fulfilling life.

siculars 3 years ago |

History is replete with examples of people who have found measurable success later in life. I might recommend starting with a review of those people and their lives and looking for any parallel that may suit you. Let me just leave one example from my culture, Rabbi Akiva, one of the most influential and revered Rabbi's of all time, that I often think of at times like these:

"When Akiva married the daughter of Ben Kalba Sabua,[a] a wealthy citizen of Jerusalem, Akiva was an uneducated shepherd employed by Ben Kalba Sabua. His wife's first name is not provided in earlier sources, but a later version of the tradition gives it as Rachel.[2][6] She stood loyally by her husband during the period of his late initiation into rabbinic studies after he was 40 years of age.[2] and in which Akiva dedicated himself to the study of Torah.

A different tradition[6] narrates that at the age of 40, Akiva attended the academy of his native town, Lod, presided over by Eliezer ben Hurcanus. Hurcanus was a neighbour of Yosef, the father of Akiva. The fact that Eliezer was his first teacher, and the only one whom Akiva later designates as "rabbi", is of importance in settling the date of Akiva's birth. These legends set the beginning of his years of study at about 75–80."

-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Akiva

kodah 3 years ago |

First, I'd find someone to walk through the valleys you're in with you. Conventional talk therapy is good for that. If you're wanting to change habits in your life then find a therapist who can also do CBT. My only advice around CBT is that you really need to invest yourself in it. The system really only works if you take the time to recognize daily, incremental progress and you're on top of it.

As far as your love life goes I simply disagree that you're past your "prime". People tend to say this when they're not looking at themselves in the best light anymore. There are plenty of women in their 40s looking to date and I'd bet there's some thinking about things like adoption. That's to say, I think there's more paths to what you want than you may currently realize. See my first paragraph on that.

Last, I did a career reboot years ago. It's possible with a lot of studying and diligence. Again, you'll need a good system for recognizing incremental progress and appreciating your ascent. It is frustrating at times; the only thing I can say looking back on my own path is be patient with yourself. Life is quite an adventure and I wish I'd learned to appreciate the moments in which my life deviated so far from the standard experience - even the times that I thought were bad. They're the thing I share with others when they need perspective.

You got this my guy, but don't go at it alone. That's how you land in suicidal ideation.

larkinnaire 3 years ago |

You're not alone -- a lot of this resonates with me, but I (also in my 40s) might be a little further along in my journey and have a few more resources to draw on. But I feel this.

The most important thing: therapy. Don't spend too much time finding a therapist -- take the first one with an opening. If you don't get along with them, ask for a referral or use a method discussed in other comments. But the important thing is to start. Many therapists will do video calls now. Medication can also be effective.

Some more good stuff about your life: * You're not too old for marriage or even kids. Guys are lucky in that respect -- we have an easier time finding partners and having kids when we're older. * You took an important step: you posted this question. I am terrified to do any such thing about my own problems, so I respect you a lot for it. * You had a network before, and professional networks are more resilient than you think. If a co-worker from 10 years ago emailed me out of the blue, I'd be happy to talk to them. I think you'd be happy to talk to your old colleagues, so why the assumption that they wouldn't respond to you? That's an example of catastrophizing thinking. A therapist can help you with that better than HN randos...but still, asking HN randos is a good step to take! * It's not a given that the best of your life is behind you. Every part of your life can be the prime of your life if you value the things that part of your life has to offer.

Good luck, friend.

p0wn 3 years ago |

One thing I'd start doing is start reading.

First I'd look into Stoicism. That will put you on a good path if you start practicing it. I personally like 'the little book of stoicism'. It's little but gives a good history of what Stoicism is and how it came to be, and also a lot of actionable advice.

From there I have a ton of other recommendations you can just dm me when you want them.

lakeshastina 3 years ago |

The foundational element here is your desire to change your current circumstances for the better. I highly recommend starting with one basic thing, to begin shifting your life in the direction you want it to go. It could be something really small, like getting up daily at the same time, making your bed and drinking a cup of coffee. If you can do a bit more, I would then recommend a daily workout. Starting to physically feel stronger improves our abilities and confidence to then go tackle other areas of our life. Regarding the career development, find online or in-person courses in the field which you studied or were employed in, to refresh your memory and skills. Then go seek out companies which are cash strapped, and will bring you on for little compensation. It would be a foot in the door, and you can switch jobs as your skills develop into competence that warrants better paying jobs. What you are seeking is not difficult, or unreasonable. You can absolutely achieve them. I wish you the best.

rietta 3 years ago |

You don't say your religious background, but these life issues are exactly the sort many Churches (or the analogue) have resources to help with. One on ones with someone who is either a trained therapist or has some counseling skills as a pastor. Mens groups in similar life stages to meet for meals and talk or study scriptures together. It really is a support network.

jonnylynchy 3 years ago |

First, sorry for the loss of your father. I lost my mother at 24, so have experience there and it is very hard.

This will sound cliché, so forgive me, but do you exercise regularly? Speaking from personal experience, when I feel some anxiety and depression coming on, exercise really helps. Sunlight (when I can get it) and exercise, particularly lifting weights, help me with my mood and confidence as well. Going to the gym may be fruitful in presenting just the social interaction you need too.

To answer your question from my perspective, you are NOT too old to turn things around and the best of your life could really be in front of you. If you are still interested in having children and family, that's not totally off the table either. My dear friend who is 47 just had his first children (twins) 4 years ago. I see a lot of people having kids and family later than the conventional 20's and 30's and seems to be working just fine!

I really think you should do these 5 things:

1. Talk to someone. A relative, friend, or therapist (there are online options if you can't get to something local). 2. Exercise regularly. Do something hard every day. I'm amazed at how well that helps my mood. I'm sick at the moment and haven't been able to in the last few days and can totally feel a massive difference. 3. Get back into that old hobby or find a new one. Put yourself out there and don't be afraid to try something new that you've put on the back burner. 4. Volunteer to serve somewhere. Go help out a soup kitchen, a homeless shelter, animal shelter, etc. 5. Speaking of animals, get an animal if you can. Taking care of another living creature can help take the focus off of you.

Hope none of this sounds preachy. I really wish you the best and hope you find what makes you happy and content!

For context: I'm 46.

gvh899 3 years ago |

I'm sorry that you're going through a difficult time. As others have mentioned, seeking therapy could be a helpful step.

If it's hard to find a therapist in your small town, you may want to consider talking to your regular doctor about getting some medication to help improve your mental health. I personally tried this approach when I was feeling low and it helped me make better decisions and get back on track within a month or so.

It's important to keep in mind that even if you've achieved a lot of success and have a happy family, it doesn't necessarily mean you'll always feel like a success. I've experienced this myself, even though I had everything, I felt like a failure.

However, I have confidence that once you take care of your mental health, you'll feel like you haven't wasted your life and will appreciate your past experiences.

ryanwaggoner 3 years ago |

"In the midst of winter, I found there was, within me, an invincible summer." -- Albert Camus

First of all, I'm sorry that you're suffering. It seems completely normal that you'd be struggling given all you've been through. I know what that sense of despair feels like, and how lonely it can be. I've been there, and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I wouldn't say I've "turned my life around", but I'm 40 and in the last few years I've gone through a loss of my faith and a divorce (unrelated to each other), both of which were incredibly traumatic and really shook the foundations of my world. During the darkest days, it was really a crucible, a refining process. It was stripping away so much of what I had built my identity around.

The most transformative and healing things for me have been therapy, psychedelics, meditation, and divorce. I'm not recommending them all to everyone, but they changed me for the better.

And coming out the other side, I have such a better relationship with myself. I barely recognize myself from before. And as a result, I have a better relationship with my daughter, my friends, my family, my work, even with my ex-wife. I feel so much happier and more excited for the second half of my life than I ever have. I'm in a new relationship that feels open and healthy, and I'm planning to switch careers to be a therapist.

If you like to read, two foundational books that helped me:

- Self-Compassion by Kristin Neff

- Finding Meaning in the Second Half of Life by James Hollis

Good luck, you can do this!

PS - my email is in my profile, please don't hesitate to reach out if you ever need someone to talk to. I was helped through this period by many other kind people, some of them strangers, and I'm always happy to pay it forward and lend an ear and some support to anyone who needs it. That goes for anyone reading this too!

paufernandez 3 years ago |

I was for ten years (35-45) feeling similarly but I supposedly had a good, "stressless" life: wife, nice kids, full-time uni teaching post, etc. I realised this but was unable to reverse it at all. So you don't need to have problems in your life to feel that way, and it could be more your brain chemistry and the bias that it creates (the "dark cloud", I call it).

At the beginning I had some anxiety crises and went to see a psychiatrist. I remember that they asked about sleep upfront. I was sleeping okish, but not great. After some time I noticed I started sleeping less and less (woke up at 4am and couldn't sleep anymore), I went back to a psychiatrist (different one this time). She said I needed antidepressants, and I read about them a lot, especially against. I wasn't sure. But in the end I tried.

It took a while to "enter" that kind of medication, tried 2 and then another. But I was convinced somehow of trying until it worked. Everyone is a complex, beautiful "mess", so you have to find the way. But in the end Venlafaxine started working. And boy did it work...

Right now I feel like I did in my 20s (I'm 47). I've never been as optimistic about my prospects, I think I can do anything. I used to think that I was finished, that I was bound to be grey all my remaining life. Now I've started doing all the stuff that I had stopped doing because of the feelings you are having (helplessness, strong anhedonia). I sleep so well now that I dream quite frequently and I think that has made my mind waaay more plastic. I've regained all the piano technique that I had plus I've leveled up significantly (Chopin studies, etc).

I have the willpower (and the experience!) now to work on myself, and I think I've made a lot of progress even in interpreting events and not being so pessimistic, etc. Like I'm doing a kind of mild CBT because I want to invest, because I have hope.

So my experience is that medication was a really necessary crutch, which in my case was quite necessary (that's my belief at least), and it solved "everything" in the sense of making the baseline so much higher that recovery seemed almost easy.

But there is hope. One way or another, life will be awesome again. If you need me to tell you face to face, I can do that (@pauek on Twitter, DM me). It really helps to listen to people in a similar situation. Nobody seems to understand anything when you are hostage to depression, and that can dig the hole even deeper.

manholio 3 years ago |

Hey, I'm your age and just having my first child, we just weren't ready before. "The prime of your life" is still ahead of you - the next decades will be what you make of them.

Buy nice clothes, find a woman willing to settle down - this will be much easier in your home country, where you are still likely a catch. In parallel, get up to date to some programming language/tech stack. Work 6 months on these issues using the money you have, then take your new wife to USA if she wants it and get a well paid tech job.

You need to put in the work for all of these issues to get solved. Grind, improve yourself, and you will be tired and eventually happy. The goals you set - wife, kids, basic life - are easy to achieve if only you are in the right state of mind. Conversely, if you practice self-defeating thinking, they will seem impossible.

wppick 3 years ago |

Take it one day at a time. I have been overweight pretty much my whole life, and recently lost about 30 lbs. You have to just take these things a day at a time. You aren't going to lose 30 lbs in a day, a week, or even a month. You need to make sure EVERY day is a victory moving you closer to your goal. For me that was controlling what I ate to make sure I was in a calorie deficit. For you this could be something like meeting/talking to a new person EVERY DAY to build your network, or studying a certain amount of hours per day, etc. If you let one day slip, then you will let another slip, so you have to make the effort to keep disciplined. The second thing is tracking that you are on the right path. Again for me that was using a weight scale, but you should define your own metrics. Good luck, and start TODAY!

Nursie 3 years ago |

You can meet someone in your 40s. You might meet someone who already has kids and honestly, if you want kids in your life then much past 40 that’s probably the best way!

I cannot advise you on getting to the US, but it’s never too late to restart things in general. 40s is mid career, and the best of your life can still be ahead of you. I’m the same age, I’m still making plans to build and grow.

I’d advise some sort of educational refresher, see if there’s a qualification you can do that builds on (or converts) what you already have. If you want to be in tech then various places used to offer one-year conversion masters in software for existing grads. Another option might be to do a teaching qualification if that appeals.

The important thing is to make a start!

(And also I would seek some counselling for that suicidal ideation, it’s important to talk through this stuff with someone)

phkahler 3 years ago |

>> I know the best of my life is behind me

This in not true. It may feel that way now, but I promise when you truly reach the other side of this your life can be better than ever. It's a long road and others will have good advice. I just wanted to emphasis this statement you made does not have to be true.

Been there, felt that.

dogman144 3 years ago |

Talk to a therapist first, but that disclaimer aside:

I believe more or less that the world is built to take 30-50 yo and their goals seriously. So, there is hope if this is an outcome you want for yourself.

Some people get a heads up about this intuition by how they’re raised. There’s also a first wave of people that landed in that by accident just by having a really productive 20s and realizing they have the right markers for people to take them seriously.

Seeing those two populations start to succeed out of nowhere can be disconcerting.

However, you are also in that range. If you start figuring out what markers make people take other people seriously in their professional or personal lives, and find ways to work towards those markers successfully, things can start to snowball towards you out of a rut and up and running.

Then, you can steer that growth and foothold in any direction you want.

STARCAST 3 years ago |

Meditate. www.artofliving.org- their basic part 1 course is a great place to start, or the Sahaj samadhi meditation course.

Let go of the desires- they are at the root of the feeling of despondency. It’s not like fulfilling one’s desires is a path to happiness. Enough successful people are miserable for us to know that that is not the answer to the problem.

Your life is bigger than success and failure.

Stop thinking about yourself- what about me, etc. That’s the formula for depression. Start thinking of how you can make the world a better place. That will give you a renewed vision for your life.

And whatever goals you do set, action the small stuff first. Take a small goal, like, I will wake up by x time tomorrow. And just focus on that one goal. One thing at a time. Baby steps. Don’t overwhelm yourself with big goals and big plans, and then curse yourself for not living upto them. It’s a recipe for frustration. Small goals, and go for consistent accomplishment of said goal for a sustained period of time, like say, 7 days. And then increase gradually. Just do this much for now.

Finally- if you google this, there will be countless examples of successful people who were late bloomers. Some even in their 60/70s! Sometimes, things happen which are outside of our control and we can’t really blame ourselves for the way things turned out. So, don’t be hard on yourself. Be kind to yourself and, let yourself off the hook. Whether we succeed or fail, one day we are all going to be dead and gone. It doesn’t matter anyway. But first, to get outside of this pattern of self blame and frustration, take up small achievable goals, and be consistent in them for short periods of time. That will gain you some self confidence, and if you start meditating, a fresh bunch of ideas will simply flow into your life. All will be well. Trust and have faith that your problems are getting solved, and there is a power with you that is taking you through all the problems. You are not alone. You are never given something that you cannot handle. Have faith. Lots of love.

hashasyn 3 years ago |

I don't think that you are too old for anything that you said you are. You _feel_ old, as in lack of energy, or motivation, for example, which is an entirely different thing. Having a sport routine will most certainly address that. For example, in the morning after I wake up works for me, as it gives a boost of energy for the rest of the day. It will take about 30 days to get used to a routine, after that you will feel like you need it :) As for the emotional need, that is the next critical thing to address. There are a lot of decent women in your age range, some of them after a failed marriage, which are looking for an emotional connection and a relationship, just like you. Put yourself out there, and let the matching algorithms do their thing. I met my wife using Tinder. It s a good start.

keeptrying 3 years ago |

The suicidal ideation is a "bug" in our psyche.

Fully encompassing a structure where you understand that your mind is separate from you is very very important. Some useful modalities: - Integrated Family systems - Thinking of your mind as a tool that you control and use and which has major bugs. - Understanding that you are not your mind.

The other important thing you need is people you trust around you who are positive and can help you positively. Each has its own pitfalls but you can choose from: - therapist (probably the best if you can afford one and can find a good one) - church groups - buddhist centers (would recommend SGI - Sokka Gakkai International. You can find a chapter near you)

If something doesn't work and is making you feel negative. Cut it out immediately.

Start working on something you like relating to your past work experience.

rdl 3 years ago |

My priorities in your case would be: 1) Find a job/career 2) Relocate to a place you want to be

The relationship/lifestyle goals are secondary to those (maybe ultimately more important, but would require and be consequences of improvement of those two).

If your current skills aren't where they'd need to be to get hired, a quick 1-3 month deep dive into some niche tech which you could plausibly link to education to past experience would make sense. Then presumably remote work combined with trying to get visa sponsorship. Maybe broaden from US to US/CA/AU/etc.

Maybe a therapist, but no personal experience with that. Objectively there are good reasons to be unsatisfied with where you are in life, but I'd personally rather just fix those reasons rather than discuss with someone why they are that way, etc.

jackmott42 3 years ago |

Nothing major but about when I turned 40 I went and did a lot of fun exploration of new programming languages and ideas. I did some game projects, some coding challenges on various websites, some hobby open source contributions and projects. It was all work very different than my day job, played with a lot of new languages. F#, Rust, Typescript, Nim, Go etc.

This ended up being really good when job hunting, I was up on all the hip new stuff, so I don't come across as being dated, and it was fun and I learned a lot. This didn't result in a total career turnaround or anything but I did get a lot of offers and better pay the next time I had to get a new job.

Sounds like you have some decent fundamentals and could easily ramp up skills in some field you are interested in and get more interesting work.

digbybk 3 years ago |

Have you considered moving to a big city, even if it’s not in the US, which I know is your preference? It won’t fix all your problems but having more opportunities professionally and romantically might change your outlook somewhat. You’re in the prime years to catch all the people exiting their first marriage, but not if you’re in a town with a dozen people in it.

I also fall into patterns of depression even though I’m married and doing fine professionally. I know someone here said that therapy is a very “American answer” but the fact is that for most of us the depression comes first and the reasons come later. You very well could get everything you want and be worse off because now you have no answer for why you feel the way you do. At least now you have some goals to work towards.

quonn 3 years ago |

Instead of listing everything you want and cannot control, it could help to focus on things that you can control. In your case this would be employment which would help you to regain self confidence and potentially allow you to save (towards the house you want). Everything else can then fall into place in it’s own time.

Additionally - and independently - I would encourage taking steps that allow you to experience joy. For example, go to a hostel (but avoid one full of teenagers) at the beach in a cheap place - South America or Africa or Asia, learn to talk to random strangers there. Teach yourself something cheap and fun, like surfing. Start working there on the side on the bar or volunteer there to finance it. Maybe add some meditation once you feel stable and happy.

hoffspot 3 years ago |

“For what it’s worth: it’s never too late or, in my case, too early to be whoever you want to be. There’s no time limit, stop whenever you want. You can change or stay the same, there are no rules to this thing. We can make the best or the worst of it. I hope you make the best of it. And I hope you see things that startle you. I hope you feel things you never felt before. I hope you meet people with a different point of view. I hope you live a life you’re proud of. If you find that you’re not, I hope you have the courage to start all over again.”

― Francis Scott Fitzgerald

Whenever I'm in a rut I just recall this quote and force myself to take a first step in a different direction. A lot of change is momentum based. You just have to start moving.

darksofa 3 years ago |

Echo recommendation for CBT. Helped me greatly and it will help you.

How old will you be in 5 years if you do nothing? 45. If you make big changes, how old will you be in 5 years? The same? The point is: your age has nothing to do with it. At 40, you're still young.

Get thee back to the US. You can change careers.

You can have a wife and kids. Although be prepared to meet women with "baggage" - a prior divorce and children. The key to find a wife is to treat it like a second full-time job. Were you raised in a particular religious faith? If yes, join a singles group associated to it? Worried that you'll meet a woman who will want to go to church every Sunday? Stop worrying -- you can sit through anything for an hour.

You're not too old. It's not too late.

Good luck.

disintegore 3 years ago |

There is a very strong chance that you are sick with depression. Consulting a health care professional should be your first priority, in my opinion. If you can't find treatment where you currently live, then it could be a good idea to move, if only temporarily.

ahuxley2013 3 years ago |

Pretty much in the same position. It sucks. I met a few therapists and they flat out turned me away and said I couldn't help me. Took 9 months to find a therapist and I have to say it's been a waste. No real change. No substantive advice that I can tell and no changes really, which is not really the therapists fault it's just the situation which can't really be changed. The notion that I have to just reframe the problems so that I feel better about them is not really a plan of action on how to resolve the issue/depression. The situations still exists, and from what I am reading this is pretty wide spread and only going to get worse in the US with the aging population and economy.

Riverheart 3 years ago |

"Don’t cast your gaze down. When your eyes are clouded, your soul darkens. That means your future is closed to you, and you lose sight of your reasons to live"

The more doors you close the harder it'll be to motivate yourself. Many single mothers taking care of kids who need fathers.

Also, you don't need to love yourself to love others. Some will say to fix yourself before you pursue a relationship but maybe being in one will motivate you because you'll have something to preserve.

Finally, be compassionate to the parts of yourself that are hurting right now.

Karen Faith - How to talk to the worst parts of yourself https://youtu.be/gUV5DJb6KGs

jeffreybarrett 3 years ago |

I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties you've been facing and the challenges you've described. It sounds like you have a lot of regrets and are feeling overwhelmed by the sense that you have let the best years of your life pass you by. It's understandable that you would feel this way, but it's important to remember that it's never too late to make positive changes in your life and to find ways to move forward.

One thing you might consider is seeking out professional help, either through therapy or counseling. It can be very beneficial to have someone to talk to about your feelings and to help you develop a plan for moving forward. If there are no mental health facilities in your town, you might consider looking into online therapy or counseling services, which can be accessed remotely.

Another option might be to reach out to friends or family members for support. It can be tough to open up about your feelings, but the people who care about you may be able to provide valuable perspective and help you come up with ideas for improving your situation.

In terms of your career, it may be helpful to think about what you enjoyed about your previous work experiences and what you would like to do in the future. Even if you don't have current skills in your field of education or your previous work experience, it may be possible to gain new skills or to transition into a related field. You might consider taking online courses or seeking out job training programs to help you get started. You could also consider networking with others in your field or reaching out to professionals for advice and guidance.

Finally, it's important to take care of yourself and to focus on self-care. This can include things like getting enough sleep, exercising regularly, and eating a healthy diet. It might also be helpful to set small, achievable goals for yourself and to celebrate your progress as you work towards your larger goals.

I hope this advice is helpful. Remember that you are not alone, and that it is possible to make positive changes in your life no matter how old you are. Please don't hesitate to reach out for additional support if you need it.

Lockal 3 years ago | |

No, answers from ChatGPT are not helpful.

mykowebhn 3 years ago |

Yes, as others have already said, please seek professional help right away. I wish you the best, and please hang in there. It does get better.

At 36, my mother, with whom I had a complex relationship, passed away, I separated from my wife of 10 years, I quit my career as a chip designer in the hopes of finding something more satisfying to me, and I lost many friends as a result of all of this. At the time, things couldn't seem to get any lower for me. I did spend a lot of time with a therapist and I worked very hard taking care of myself through all of this.

Fast forward a decade and a half and I couldn't be happier. Please hang in there and spend some time on healing and getting better. Boa sorte.

mtalantikite 3 years ago |

The best of your life is definitely not behind you!

Others have suggested therapy, and as someone that spent some years with a therapist I agree with that part, so I won't comment more on that. But I would really emphasize finding a physical practice of some sort. Finding a yoga and martial arts (muay thai) practice changed everything for me. Another comment mentioned you might be in Germany, and if I were there I'd go take a week retreat at Shaolin Temple Europe to study some forms [1]. He takes people of all ages and all levels there.

[1] https://www.shaolintemple.eu/index.php?page=videos

theredfury 3 years ago |

A lot of people have mentioned therapy. Definitely second that. One area that I haven’t seen emphasized enough is exercise (maybe I haven’t read enough of the comments). Exercise has helped me so much with regards to depression and anxiety. And don’t pay attention to 1-hour high intensity classes or any other aggressive workout programs, just start small. 5-10 minutes a day and work up. I promise, it might be uncomfortable if you don’t already exercise in some capacity, but getting in shape physically will help make you feel better mentally.

Lastly, I don’t have great sources to link, but I’ve heard numerous people talk about their 40s being fantastic. I hope yours are too, at some point.

ciconia 3 years ago |

"Be the change you want to see in the world" is often used in a political or societal context. But it's the personal application of this idea that I find more interesting.

The hard part is understanding want you want. If you have nobody to talk to, you can write down your thoughts (writing down dreams can work wonders for understanding oneself).

I think having a clear idea of what you want gives you a better understanding of your life, and will help you to move to action. If you want to change your life, (and it sounds like you do,) you'll need to act.

Start asking yourself: "what do I want to do right now?" Answer truthfully and then act on it, it's the best advice I can give you.

thunderrabbit 3 years ago |

> severe procrastination and a masterful ability to lie to myself.

This 12 step program helped me in my 50s.

https://underearnersanonymous.org

> Underearners Anonymous® is a Twelve Step Fellowship of people who have come together to help themselves and one another recover from underearning.

> Underearning is many things, not all of which are about money. While the most visible consequence is the inability to provide for one’s needs, including future needs, underearning is also about the inability to fully acknowledge and express our capabilities and competencies. It is about underachieving, or under-being, no matter how much money we make.

m_fayer 3 years ago |

Other than terminal illness, war, abuse etc. there is no age/life-configuration/set-of-limits that cannot be turned around into a satisfying life. It's a failure of imagination that prevents you from figuring out what that satisfying life might look like (it probably won't look like the life you believe you've missed out on, you need to put those dreams to rest), a failure of motivation and imagination that blocks you from figuring out how to get there, and a failure of hope that locks it all in.

Effective therapy (and possibly medication) will grant you the starting energy and improved outlook that you need to make the rest possible. Godspeed.

college_physics 3 years ago |

Not professional advice but hey, you are asking HN :-)

Imho if you start with the "wife" problem all the rest will either take care of itself or not matter so much anymore. There is simply nothing like having another soul to share life's joys and sorrows with.

Given the gender distribution in our species, for every lonely man out there there is a lonely woman (who statistically is not on HN) so it is foremost a question of getting the two in the same subset of spacetime. How to go about it? Apologies for one more dry physics analogy, but for a two-body system to form you simply need the energy to go through a lot of interactions (collisions, near misses etc).

It will work out.

rasengan0 3 years ago |

Do not overlook serendipity (the occurrence and development of events by chance in a happy or beneficial way.)

My entire life 20 years ago was changed by a dance class to get more social activity absent from a breakup. Therapy, spiritual counsel, exercise, diet, rest, nature, purpose, social network, death of loved ones, illness, blah, blah blah all may have had their place, but it was only circumstance that I truly believe that mattered looking back 50 years on.

Life is precious and easy to take for granted. And yet there is every opportunity to find meaning. Perhaps that is the way it works, take time for yourself, be open to what comes: all the suffering and joy that is here.

Peace be with you

rasengan0 3 years ago | |

https://youtu.be/zWrwPr1OEuk <-- more wisdom here than the entire thread

DrewADesign 3 years ago |

As a 42 year old full-time undergraduate student having recently resurfaced from a deep depression that cost me my job of 11 years (which ended up being for the best, largely,) I can relate to what you're going through.

As so many other people have said, you are probably depressed. It's not your fault, you didn't cause it, you can't just 'stop' being depressed by trying to do things like you aren't depressed, and unless you address your depression, you simply won't be successful addressing anything else.

> I know the best of my life is behind me

I assure you this is false unless you deliberately make it so. Happiness isn't the opposite of depression: vitality is. From depression, the good times seem like a distant relic that you no longer deserve or are capable of. That is the barrier between you and the good times-- not age, or time.

Drugs could help you start turning things around in weeks. Even better combined with either talk therapy to keep you on track, or CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which gives you customized, situation-specific mental tools to change your behavior) if talk therapy/emotional deep dives makes you too uncomfortable. If you'd prefer not to take antidepressants, CBT alone is fantastically effective. (Seriously. Lots of peer-reviewed research.)

> no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a masterful ability to lie to myself.

You might want to ask whoever you're getting treated by if you might have a condition for which depression is a frequent comorbidity, because it sounds like you have trouble with executive functioning. The EF problems associated with ADHD, for example, quite frequently manifest themselves as extreme procrastination.

All of this stuff is eminently treatable, with or without drugs, with or without emotional deep-dives of talk therapy. While professional guidance is essential, what you'll get is a set of tools and strategies to keep the ship right and fix it when it goes wrong (which is allll part of the process. Don't beat yourself up.) I am completely confident you can regain a functional, fulfilling, enjoyable adulthood as I did.

dimitrios1 3 years ago |

The answer is of course, yes. A few anecdotes:

- My father had me at age 44. Moved the same year into their first home, and he got a new break with a small business loan to start what would become a then famous restaurant for his generation.

- My good friend and godfather to my son is living his best life now about to enter his 50s. He started a PhD program in his late 30s, and was going into his 40s with Covid upheaving all the universities unsure if he was going to make it. He preserved and received tenure.

- Our pastor at age 58 was a deacon for decades, unsure if he would ever get to realize his dream of becoming a minister. He devoted most of his entire life to this cause. Most recently, he was traveling 3-4 hours to help our community with services, and because of his dedication was noticed by our bishop and was elevated to the priesthood for a new parish community, something unheard of if you know how these things work. At age 60 he now lives in a new place in a new home with a new job, and is thriving.

The key strand in all of this was faith, hope, and perseverance (not necessarily in that order). I have been depressed. Most of my family are. Try to therapy if you can. Even if you don't "believe in it" simply having someone there to talk to can help you work through those thoughts you are having. What I learned is to be more forgiving with myself. You can feel depressed. It's ok. So many people do. It's unfortunately now a normal part of this broken world. But refuse to let it conquer you. Stand up to it. Battle it. Create yourself a mental advocate to fire back at those dark thoughts. Even if you think it' silly, then do it for silliness sake. Don't let those dark thoughts control you. Preservere. Keep the faith. Put one foot in front of the other, even if it seems pointless, even if it seems all for naught. Fortune favors those who try.

You seem to know what the first step is. Take it. Come back to the states. Get involved in a community. There are so many here. Go out on a limb, try a place you never would think to go. If you feel like you are at the bottom, then you only have everything to gain.

Wishing you the best, and praying for you.

kranke155 3 years ago |

Your suicidal ideation seems to me a direct result of your own ideas about yourself. You say you’re healthy and able but you’re not doing anything to change your situation (which is admittedly crappy). You don’t enjoy your life, even though you’re healthy and disease free. I know someone who has a chronic illness that will kill them eventually. They work towards their goals and are generally a happy person.

It’s about your outlook.

Basically: If you don’t like your situation, change it. Can you change your life? The probability is 99.99% yes. But you have to change your mind first.

I’d say see a therapist asap. Try better help . Com or some other remote service if you can’t find one nearby.

waterlovinguy2 3 years ago |

Started surfing at 39 Post 40: started windsurfing Became a full-time software developer Got married Had a child Got a new motorcycle Ran two half marathons and multiple races shorter. Started writing and drawing with regularity and getting better at both all the time (this post not withstanding)

All in all I look back at my 40's and consider it the best decade of my life. Do a quick search and you'll see that so many artists, writers, etc. did their seminal work later in life. Athletics and punk rock are the only areas your youth is a true factor (excluding Iggy Pop)

Get some therapy, re-set your ideas and expectations of your life and good luck to you truly.

quonn 3 years ago |

Instead of listing everything you want and cannot control it could help to focus on things that you can control. In your case this would be employment which would help you to regain self confidence and potentially allow you to save (towards the house you want). Everything else can then fall into place in it’s own time.

Additionally - and independently - I would encourage taking steps that allow you to experience joy. For example, go to a hostel at the beach, learn to talk to random strangers there. Teach yourself something cheap and fun, like surfing. Start working there on the side on the bar to finance it. Maybe add some meditation. Or whatever.

dools 3 years ago |

In meditations that I listen to there is a repeated concept that comes up over and over: begin again.

Accept what happened, and begin again.

You wanted to meditate and get into an empty state, it didn’t happen, your thoughts strayed, so what? Begin again.

I see all of life’s challenges as nothing more than the chance to practise acceptance until I must ultimately accept my own death, so plenty of practise is preferred.

That’s not to say I don’t have ambition and experience joy, quite the opposite. By focusing on acceptance I am able to live happily in the present more often without guilt or anxiety.

So how do you begin again in life? Answer three questions:

What do I have? What do I want? How can I use what I have to get what I want?

ARK_12 3 years ago |

As others mentioned i would seek professional advice.

But here's my anecdotal advice, whenever i feel self pity and overwhelmed to the level where i don't know where to start, i try to get back to basics and focus on small picture stuff that are within my control. Anything that you'd be happy with doing for the day, that depends on only yourself and not other's approval.

Start with trying to improve your mental health and mood, wether its a small level of exercise, better diet, saying yes to any social occasion, change of scenery ...

Once my mental outlook improves, the rest of my approach to life improves.

P.S the fact that you took steps to reach out for help is a good sign

dave333 3 years ago |

I sympathize as I had a lean patch after the dot com bust around 2001 aged 47 that lasted until I got another regular dev job in 2007. My problems were mostly financial although I did have some fun outside my marriage and also in places like Tijuana without getting caught as far as I know. My skills got out of date and it was pure luck that I got hired and was able to reconnect to work with the current toolset. Looking back all the best life-changing opportunities came along without any warning out of the blue. Not things I was looking for but I wasn't just sitting at home I was out doing things when I ran into them.

burner77562 3 years ago |

On a sidenote: it helped me tremendously to read all the comments of people here, who turned around their life. Thanks everyone for sharing their positive stories and giving a positive outlook on life, helped me a lot to read them.

magicalhippo 3 years ago |

I too lost my dad almost 15 years ago, and was quite depressed both leading up and after.

At least for me, what helped was when I started being honest with myself, and I started to accept my limitations and to incorporate that into my planning.

I don't mean that in a "just give up" sort of way, but rather accept the limitations and find ways to work around those.

I also found some Meetup groups and attended free meetings/events. Some technical to learn and network, others like hiking and cycling to counteract the negative thoughts.

I still forget to be honest with myself from time to time, so every now and then I need to have a stern talk with myself to realign.

m463 3 years ago |

1) don't worry about the things out of your control

You cannot control many things in life, and trying to is a fruitless waste of time.

2) work on the things you CAN control

the main one is you. work on yourself. improve your health - aerobic exercise 6 days a week, keep your weight healthy. eat well, not junk. sleep enough, not too little, not too much. exercise your mind, professionally and creatively. put stuff on your calendar (including downtime) and do it.

3) make some goals.

you can meet someone. I have several friends in their late 50's and 60's who have met someone and married. There are lots of ladies around your age that want marriage and/or kids.

Havoc 3 years ago |

Aside from seeking therapy I’d suggest taking a baby steps approach. Lives are not changed overnight but step by step.

Also - having a MEng must surely make you employable in some capacity even if a little more junior than you’d ideally want.

EwanToo 3 years ago |

Do not give up. The idea that at 40 or 50 you're past it and have missed out on all the opportunities in life is common, but it's flat out wrong. A wife and kids in your 40s is perfectly feasible, but I wouldn't focus on them first. Once you're in a happier and more stable position personally, then other things can and will follow.

Other people have given good positive practical advice on therapy, which I would recommend too, pick anyone and see if it works, if not move on. The therapist is not your friend and you don't need to worry about their feelings or long-term commitment upfront.

vcryan 3 years ago |

We're all on a different journey. Another recommendation, read the book "Bird by Bird." It is about writing, but I think it will help you put take one step at a time. You have to learn to choose small things to do towards your goal, and to feel proud of yourself for taking small steps. You can do this.

I'm sure many of the other recommendations have merit re: seeing a therapist. That route didn't work for me, this is how I live my life, bird by bird and it helped me go from suicidal feelings to being able to feel some pride and acceptance of myself and enjoy life again. I am in 40s

codemonkeysh 3 years ago |

First, seek professional help even if it's remote. Suicide is never a good answer. In fact, it would just hurt those you love about deeply.

Second, the best of your life isn't behind you because you're 43. I say this with 100% certainty because I'm your age. Remember, the meaning of life, the universe, and everything is 42 and that was just last year. That's right baby, nerd joke!

Immutability is great for programming, but not as life advice. You can change, the biggest challenge starts with changing your mindset. I know that's hard and requires a) consistent affirmation in know your worth and ability. b) it takes time, but fighting and pushing for growth is the meaning of life. c) You're the same person you were as a youth, but you're lying to yourself about self-worth.

It's not that you don't want to live, it's that you don't want to continue with your behavior and mindset; but you're uncertain of how to start the cycle of change.

Here's what I do daily.

1. Wake up - get washed, vitamins, eat plant based, kefir, scrub my balls until they shine. 2. Work - On my own projects, work for my client, etc 3. Go for a walk - I don't care if it's colder outside than my ex-girlfriend. I go out! 4. Talk to people - Socialize and talk to people. Do it without fear - I will anything to anyone in a light hearted and joyful way. 5. Affirmations - each day I tell myself about the good I've done in life and how things changed.

I can tell you for certainty that life was not kind to me, but I refuse to let life win. If you want someone to talk to, someone who has felt the way you have, who went from doing well to giving it all up, to regaining it, to feeling like giving up physically, etc.. let me know.

You have a moment in your life to turn this all around and show your family, friends, and yourself how you're a bad motherfucker you are. I love the struggle and I turned it into a game.

Honestly, seek professional help and if you like - we can talk. I'm very transparent about my life with everyone. P.S., Money doesn't change these feelings. I know that sounds like bullshit, but it's true from my experience.

AgentOrange1234 3 years ago |

I think you can turn this around. You are showing a good introspective self awareness here which is very promising. But when you are feeling depressed, it’s hard to see clearly where things stand, especially alone.

Because of that, connecting with a therapist/coach to talk through things may really help challenge your thinking and hone your understanding of your situation.

For instance, you have more time than you think. As a man, you can still have children in your 40s and 50s and beyond. So why does it seem like it’s too late? A therapist may be able to help you reframe things, and help you find that hope again.

debacle 3 years ago |

I have been turning my life around for the last 10 years. I will be turning my life around for the next 40 or more.

You get out of the world what you bring into it. The lie that success is based on luck or starting point or whatever is not helpful. Everyone can start over.

Two suggestions:

- Ensure you are physically active, even a little bit. This does not mean "lift heavy" or "be a bodybuilder," it just means "maybe do a few pushups or park a little further away from the grocery store."

- Spend some time around people who are worse off than you. For me, this has really provided context for how much of a gift this life is.

resource0x 3 years ago |

> I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few.

No, 42 is not too late. You have to take care of somebody, this will fill your life with meaning. This meaning is hard to describe (it may not look rational), but you will feel it. Also, stop looking for a "meaningful job" - it's unlikely you will find one. As soon as you realize that the only thing that matters is taking care of your family, the issue of "meaningful job" will automatically lose its importance.

tgv 3 years ago |

> I'm a pity case and an example case of how not to throw one's life away.

You may not be envied, but there's nothing wrong with not having a wife and kids. I'm a bit older, had a relationship/marriage for 23 years, with a child, but we divorced. Online dating was depressing for me, so I live alone now (although I do frequently see my daughter), and I'm in peace with that. Currently worried about my elderly mother, though.

You haven't "thrown away your life", that's American movie bullshit. Get a job, feed and clothe yourself and enjoy the simple things in life.

TimedToasts 3 years ago |

I was 35 when I pulled myself out of a 15 year tailspin. It's been more than a decade since but I've maintained all the progress that I've made and have fully turned my life around. It's possible to do - if that Old Me could do it then you definitely can.

You've gotten a ton of advice so I'll keep mine short: Setbacks will happen even if you're doing everything 'right'. Life can throw a lot of shiz at you for no good reason. Be prepared to pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back to it.

It can be done. Hang in there. Best wishes from me and my family.

chasd00 3 years ago |

Step one, see a therapist ( as others have said i'm sure ). Also, from reading, it seems like it's the worst of your life that's behind you not the best.

Early 30s i had an unsuccessful suicide attempt but managed to get things turned around through therapy and family and am very happy and content at 46. "It's a long road out of hell" is an accurate statement, it's more of a journey and you won't even know you've been succesful until a thread like this appears and you think back from where you were to where you are and the changes you've made.

hinkley 3 years ago |

My friend’s in-laws had this advice: your 40’s should be your best decade because you still have most of your health and you have the money to do things. I’ve known a lot of pretty healthy people in their 50’s who might say your early 50’s can be better.

Physically I feel younger today than I did eight years ago. Started tai chi, a new hobby that involved volunteerism (and manual labor), bought some land, and as others have suggested, found a therapist.

If all goes well I’ll be walking the local half marathon in the spring. Eight years ago a mile a day would cause me ankle pain for three to four days.

thenerdhead 3 years ago |

Going against the grain here. The only person who can help you is you. A good therapist can help you realize that earlier too.

You're going to get many perspectives of how you can help yourself in this thread, some will resonate and some won't at all.

Facing your longing for happiness and reason may be the very thing preventing you from obtaining it. Sometimes in order to understand the world, one has to turn away from it on occasion.

In other words, you have to listen to yourself in terms of how to turn your life around. Maybe even the fear of being successful paralyzes you from beginning.

dmead 3 years ago |

I'm about to turn 40 next year.

My 30s were characterized by multiple open heart surgeries, having my metaphorical heart broken twice and generally not being where I want to be financially. I get where you're coming from.

Sounds to me like you're stuck. Moving to the US isn't going to solve that. Moving isn't going to solve that. The other comments talking about therapy and confronting your problems are spot on. If I were you I would take some of my savings and invest in myself via therapy or whatever else kind of help you need to get back on track in life.

bombcar 3 years ago |

Are you eligible to work in the US without going through the green card lottery?

You mention you're in a small town; I am presuming that your country has larger towns and cities. Is there a possibility of getting there?

You have $25k in savings, this is more than a significant percentage of the people in the US - if you can work in the USA you could become a bus driver tomorrow; they'll train. It may be worth trying for awhile just to shake things up.

thopkinson 3 years ago |

Read: How Will You Measure Your Life, by Clayton Christensen Man's Search For Meaning, by Victor Frankl

Look at examples of people with purpose and fulfillment in life that you admire, ask them what they do.

I recommend finding a faith community. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints has amazing communities all around the world where anyone is welcome to visit and will find friendship and countless examples and help toward purpose and fulfillment.

anonu 3 years ago |

When you walk through a city pay attention to the construction. There's cranes everywhere. Roads are being dig up and patched over. Old makes way for the new. A human life is similar. It's a never ending construction project. If you think you're done building, i would argue that you're wrong. It's never too late to reinvent. And for an early 40s male it's certainly not too late to start a family.

nonethewiser 3 years ago |

The wife and baby ship hasn't sailed. You can marry someone younger than you. Focus on getting your house in order first. You can have a fulfilling life.

atbpaca 3 years ago |

Not sure if you are in the US or not. But have you tried tele-medicine? During the pandemic, I had severe anxiety problems and I was able to find a psychiatrist through Teladoc. There are other tele-medicine providers as well. Everything done through the browser in video conf. If there are no therapists or psychiatrist around, I highly recommend it at least as a starting point while you look for an in-person professional.

MarcoSanto 3 years ago |

So from the looks of it you are in a negative mind frame. Use a professional mental coach (therapist, of course, not one of those "gurus") to help you reframe. It is never too late nor you are never not good enough. But you have to get to a point where you really believe it, not just superficially. A well structured mental coaching development path will help you reframe. Use the right tool, get into therapy.

alexhackney 3 years ago |

Kids in your 40s are tough. I have a 21yr old and a 4yr old. I couldn't imagine having a new born today but several do.

Life is what you make it. Find something that makes you happy and the rest falls in to place in my experience.

Also therapy is very wise here. They can'tfix your issues but they help give you the tools to do it yourself which I found huge.

Good luck and if you have or can create a group of friends around you, it helps a lot as well.

rsynnott 3 years ago |

> a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few.

I mean, not necessarily. I know plenty of people who had their first kid in their late 30s, and one or two in their early 40s (though that is basically the end of the line, assuming your spouse is about the same age as you).

rogerthatmix 3 years ago |

I’ve used and liked “Therapy in a Nutshell” youtube videos. She’s a licensed therapist in the US. Probably not a replacement for an in person therapist, but could be a good first step or supplementary information.

https://m.youtube.com/@TherapyinaNutshell

lun4r 3 years ago |

I'm sorry to hear that you're going through such a difficult time and that you've been feeling isolated and depressed. It takes a lot of courage to ask for help and to reach out for support, and I'm here to listen and offer some suggestions.

First, it's important to address your suicidal thoughts. If you're feeling like you might harm yourself or take your own life, it's important to get help as soon as possible. You can call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline in the US at 1-800-273-TALK (8255) or in your home country, you can find resources through the International Association for Suicide Prevention.

It's also a good idea to speak with a mental health professional who can provide you with support and guidance. If you're unable to access mental health services in your small town, there are other options available to you, such as online therapy or teletherapy. These services allow you to meet with a therapist remotely, either by phone or video, and can be an effective way to get the help you need.

In terms of your long-term goals, it sounds like you're feeling lost and unsure of how to move forward. It's understandable that you're feeling this way, given all that you've been through and the fact that you've been out of the workforce for a decade. But it's important to remember that it's never too late to make positive changes in your life.

One thing you might consider is seeking out opportunities to gain new skills or education that can help you reenter the workforce. This could be through online courses, local community college classes, or vocational training programs. You could also consider volunteering or interning in a field that interests you, as a way to gain experience and build your professional network.

It's also important to take care of yourself physically and emotionally. This can include finding ways to manage your stress and anxiety, such as through exercise, meditation, or other activities that help you feel grounded and centered. Surrounding yourself with supportive friends and family can also be helpful.

I understand that it's not easy to make these kinds of changes, especially when you're feeling down and discouraged. But please remember that you are not alone and that there are people who care about you and want to help. Reach out to a trusted friend, family member, or mental health professional for support, and don't hesitate to seek out additional resources if you need them.

jurassic 3 years ago |

Lots of good advice in this thread. Only thing I would say is: don’t rule out the wife and kids if that is what you want. As a man, you are not on the same biological clock as women and many men have had families in life’s second act.

joemazerino 3 years ago |

It is never too late. Tomorrow could be the day you turn your life around. Small daily steps.

Good luck.

wombatpm 3 years ago |

You can’t blame yourself for the past all you do is keep moving forward. Asking for help is a good first step. Here is my advice:

Step 1. See a Doctor. Even a primary care doctor can prescribe medication. You’ve been through a lot these past few years, and while therapy can help you solve underlying issues, medications can help you until that is an available option.

Step 2. Once you are stabilized figure out what’s most important. Do you want a job, to get married, move to the US? They are all possible but you can’t focus on three #1 priorities. What if you meet a girl who doesn’t want to relocate?

Bottom line, you are depressed. I’ve been there, it sucks. Get your mind right first. That will help you tackle your goals and dreams.

Meanwhile you have family, you have your health, and you still have time. I was 45 when I made my third career change. My email is in my profile and I’m happy to talk

gvko 3 years ago |

Not like I can give a good life advice, but from my life experience as a man knowledge about psychology and anthropology - you need a goal/aim to work towards. I say "experience as a man", because this is especially true for males. Everything else will fall in place little by little.

And usually when someone doesn't know what to do with their life, I suggest them to learn how to code. This platform is the best one I know how to start programming: https://www.freecodecamp.org/

Why I say this is because it's easy for anyone physically capable to start coding for free. And the job prospects are good. And consequentially, there is a high probability this will give you some meaning/goal/aim in life.

Sorry, if this was a crappy advice. Just trying to help.

advertising 3 years ago |

Best of life is not behind you. 40’s are the back nine of your prime. You have the most knowledge and experience and still have energy and ability.

Be careful of the stories you tell yourself because they will eventually become true.

jhatemyjob 3 years ago |

I'm 28. And my life is pretty good. Always has been, for the most part. So take this with a grain of salt.

I would stop making threads like this. You're better off reading books. Some books stay relevant for centuries. Internet comments stay relevant for days. You have no idea who any of these people are, or if their advice is good or bad. I saw a few comments [1] [2] by people who seem to have some sort of self-awareness, but they are in the minority, most people in this thread are as clueless as you.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34053261 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34052827

balaji1 3 years ago |

To the other fundamental ideas in the replies, I would add what SM motivation content profess for similar situations: getting organized and working out to lose weight.

pcdoodle 3 years ago |

Small changes add up. Get some free weights and spend extra money on good (non processed) food. This will take 2 weeks of constancy to feel 10-20% better about life.

technics256 3 years ago |

I agree with what other posters say. The big thing is learning to forgive yourself and taking active steps every day in healthy habits.

That, and a session with MDMA will work wonders

m0llusk 3 years ago |

Waited until my 50s to turn my life around. Keep using gratitude and appreciation to steer yourself in the right direction and with effort possibilities emerge.

gadders 3 years ago |

40 is not even halfway through your life and I'm sure you'll get an Act 2. Just keep moving and try and get 1% better every day. You've got this.

whearyou 3 years ago |

Hey man lots of courage to ask for help- as others have said a therapist will be a huge resource.

Things are far from over yet and I and most on this thread are rooting for you.

mrdatawolf 3 years ago |

The you of today still knows what you from a decade ago knew. But now, you know what life does to people. That alone makes you MORE then you were, not less.

flybrand 3 years ago |

Identify people who have what you want, or match your view of success and spend time w them. Find a way to see if mentorship - formal or not - is possible.

andinaror 3 years ago |

Go to your doctor to get some help with how you’re feeling. Then take one day at a time.

Then maybe think about travelling for a while and remembering how to enjoy life.

fbn79 3 years ago |

Ray Kroc founded McDonald at 52. Not great achievements before that. When I'm in your mood I try to relax, more outdoor and social activities.

petesergeant 3 years ago |

> I had all the desires of a regular guy: a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc. I mean I still do, but I guess I'm too late for the first few.

False.

TurkishPoptart 3 years ago |

I'm 33 and think my life is over because I have zero prospects for having a family of my own, or a normal social life. I sympathize with OP.

lleb97a 3 years ago |

Don't forget that the journey is the destination. When you make the long process of change itself the goal, life becomes more interesting.

sarah180 3 years ago |

My 40s have been way better than my 20s or 30s. It's not even close. The best part of your life does not have to be behind you.

digitalsankhara 3 years ago |

Yes to your direct question.

I can only share from my own experience.

You have already made the biggest step by acknowledging how you feel. Seeking professional help is a must. One to one, in person, counselling was much, much better for me than reading advice online.

A good counsellor should help you untangle your thoughts and give you some structure. It will take time-it was in the order of decades for me, but I have underlying mental health issues anyway, but please do not put pressure on yourself for a quick fix. Be your own best friend and practice patience where you can.

There are always options-it might not seem like it to you now, but there is nothing set in stone for the rest of your life and how you want to live it. All things are possible. The road to those possibilities may seem like it runs into an abyss as your mind, right now, wants to take you down there.

During my trauma, I learnt that my mind was controlling me and not the other way around. My thinking was not rational, and I was reactive to internal stimulation-stuck in permanent fear mode from flight/fight thinking.

Calming the mind is hard work and not easy, but with help I was able to move forward. There were relapses aplenty. Be prepared for setbacks and acknowledge them as progression on the path to recovery, not as a stick to beat yourself with.

If I may, could I recommend some reading? During my worst, I was drawn to a feeling that I needed to wipe the thinking slate clean and gain insights into why I had such (recurring) suffering. I found texts from Eastern philosophy very helpful to help me gain mental discipline and open myself up critical deconstruction of myself so I could re-assemble with some tools for the future. Again, not an easy thing for me to do as it was hard to concentrate during those times but, eventually, it was easier.

I not asking you to embrace any spiritual beliefs as you can ignore those if they crop up in texts, but perhaps to extract any wisdoms and lessons that appeal to you and help you feel better.

Some of the books I found interesting; "The Power Of Now" - Eckhart Tolle, "How to Solve Our Human Problems: The Four Noble Truths" - Kelsang Gyatso, "Meditations" - Marcus Aurelius

It was a slow journey, but eventually I realised that my mind was keeping me in fear and at the centre of a worldview of insecurity, doubt, self hate and blame. Books like these led me to realise that that worldview was wrong and develop the mental discipline to be reflective and mindful.

I wish you every kindness wherever your path takes you. Be kind to yourself.

cindarin 3 years ago |

For all the "just go to therapy", what's the best way for me to accept your payment for this? Paypal? venmo? ko-fi?

Ahmad_omar 3 years ago |

Lost my father, single guy, 37 years old, I was employed not in my field of education, but it was very curious as more I was reading your story it was like I was reading mine (with some few differences)

I was in the same situation, but in the last five years I changed slowly but steadily to a positive mindset

I was rised with the idea of becoming stable financially, get a wife and 2 kids. This idea was not due of my parents but I was imbibing the 'unattended script' of the society we are living in

More I get older and more I realize that I was in an infinite rotating water sink. Nothing was really working 'as recommended' by the society. And here began the negative infinite sink effect for me

I was keeping struggling for long periods and little by little I was discovering that all people around me and literally all people around this world have their own specific troubles in life. It may sounds weired, since this fact is known by all. But how about feeling it as a reality and understanding that really no one's life is pink.

That was a good starting point for me, then I began to take some of my spare time to think about life, I mean thinking about 'childish life concept' I was driven in from the start. Yes it is as harsh and extreme mind reaction when you are struggling. And you finish easily in the rebels side just like that

And there again I started to ask my self, is it really the solution to switch from a struggling mindset to a rebel mindset ? 'Clearly not' I was telling myself. And here I felt I found the right thinking: 'how about a balance ?'

'Balance' was the pivot point for me. And I started to climb all the way till the problem root: I was living a materialistic life, money, wife, kids, car, home, travel... Not even a second for my soul health in between!

I have just started to look to the side of religion to nourish my soul while nourishing my body and my desires with the materialistic side of life. I just discovered that having something bigger, greater and more valuable to believe in, than just to believe in few money cents, was making my life more enjoyable to live again

The other day, my mother dropped one of my favorite mugs, she was telling me how she was sorry to broke it while it's my favourite! I was feeling happiness to tell here that's nothing more than a simple cup, and I'm grateful that she didn't get hurt. I was feeling it coming from the heart.

I realize more than before that emotions, belief, money and all the stuff have their place in our life. Never to focus on one side and forget one of the others.

dwt204 3 years ago |

Please seek therapy as soon as you can. This is not the right place for you my Brother. Good luck and don't give up.

jtyrell321 3 years ago |

If I may intrude, the Internet is filled with charlatans creating subliminal content. Some use "Free" Audacity and Nyquist filters to build and hide complex subliminal messages in music, recording TV and more. Try a movie weekend, with a few plausible friends. Have various subliminal chants, embedded in movies, CDs and birds tweeting, calling you the Übermensch, and describing why. See what happens and report it here.

voisin 3 years ago |

> I know the best of my life is behind me

I don’t think this is accurate. What’s the basis for this?

Check out the book Midlife: A Philosophical Guide.

schizo89 3 years ago |

My life turned at 26 when I developed schizophrenia. I was a startup enterpreneur and now doing open-source lol

fauria 3 years ago |

Give skydiving a try.

Move somewhere sunny for an AFF course, get your A license and start jumping with other people.

From your post you don't seem to have any physical disability that would prevent practicing the sport, and 43yo is by no means too old. I've met USPA instructor examiners (ie very experienced folks) that started their skydiving careers around that age.

From there you will figure out what to do next with an entirely different mindset.

rafaelero 3 years ago |

Start by making friends and getting a fulfilling job. Everything else will appear more tractable after that.

soperj 3 years ago |

My boss got married and had 2 kids at 49/50 years old. It's really not too late for anything.

jmartrican 3 years ago |

Two things come to mind that help me get through tough times.

1) Having purpose helps keep my sanity. But how do we define purpose. In a world with a certain percentage of sociopaths and self interested people, I find purpose in just being a decent human. I find purpose in small things, in being one of the good guys that does not actively hurt society and others. This might be running an errand for a friend or family. Paying my taxes. Selecting which products to buy (help society by choosing the winning products that survive and which die out). Abiding by laws. I do not need to solve world peace to feel like I am living purposeful life.

2) Somewhere on the Internet I saw a story about an elderly man who was real happy or something like that. When a man asked him how does he stay so happy in old age, he answered that he has a strong belief that his best days are always ahead of him. How can that be? If you are retired how can your best days be ahead of you. I dont know really, but if you consider my first point, and also treat it as something you strive for. Your best days might be being a decent friend, putting your finances in order, cleaning the sidewalk in your neighborhood, volunteering... again, does not have to be solving world peace. But what is important is the mindset that you always have much more to give, even in old age.

bwhiting2356 3 years ago |

try getting a little exercise every day, meditating for a few minutes every day. It makes a difference.

rcarr 3 years ago |

I would do one of the following:

- Travel. Maybe get your motorcycle license if you don't have one already and do a long journey such as the Pan American highway. But there is something about travelling that puts things in perspective and makes you appreciate life more. Going slow on the road is different to just flying into somewhere. It is more of an achievement. If this appeals to you, get a subscription to Apple TV and watch Long Way Up where Ewan McGregor and Charley Boorman do half of it on electric bikes. They also have two earlier seasons but this one is probably more relevant to you as they are in their late 40s. The two of them are noticeably happier and carefree by the end of the journey.

- If you want to stay in one place, create goals for the following:

- A fitness goal. Choose something measurable in either something you've never tried before or something you know you enjoy. Maybe it's achieving a deadlift PR. Maybe it's running a 5k. Get a solid plan for it that you can stick to, either via an app or via a coach or exercise group.

- An education goal. Choose something you've always wanted to learn or something that will help you with your career. Can be an app or a college course. Do 15 mins of it a day. Duolingo is perfect for this as you can see yourself progressing every day.

- Choose a project. Can be something career related or creative. Work on it for 15 minutes every day. Set up a blog and write about your progress every day on the internet. There are super simple low tech options out there like blot.im and bear blog that do not require any coding skills whatsoever. Post on here when you have set up the blog so we can all follow in your progress.

You need to get your confidence back and you will only get it back by doing challenging things. Start as small as you possibly can. If you have never ran before, your goal is 1 mile. Once you have achieved 1 mile your next goal is 2. Do NOT start with the goal of a marathon. If you do this and you fail for whatever reason (even for stuff outside of your control like getting an injury) you are going to fall back into the depressive mindset thinking you can't achieve your goals. If that happens and you have achieved a few goals already it won't have nearly as much impact - you can just pivot to a different training goal like a flexibility goal or a swimming goal.

Get a copy of Atomic Habits by James Clear. It lives up to the hype.

One more thing:

Journal every day. Right down what went right, what went wrong, and what you can try out to improve things. Rant out on the page if you need to then get back out there.

You've got this.

positivejam 3 years ago |

What's your preferred medium (one-on-one conversation, book, audiobook, podcast, article, etc.)?

willmadden 3 years ago |

I know plenty of people who did 1+2 in their 50s and later. Your problem is your outlook on life.

advertising 3 years ago |

Bourdain was still dunking french fries at age 44 before he wrote kitchen confidential

prmoustache 3 years ago |

I'd just buy a bike, mount panniers on it and explore the world.

But I am not good at advices.

gpcastle 3 years ago |

Psychedelics have changed my outlook and life. I recommend looking into them.

rzazueta 3 years ago |

I went through something almost exactly the same a few years ago, and I'm almost completely on the other side of it now - far happier and with a new set of life goals.

We are told that money and our jobs are what are most important in life. I mean, yeah, all the aphorisms deny this - "Money can;t buy happiness", "The best things in life are free", etc., but all of society is set up for us to sell the best parts of our lives to further enrich the wealthy while we're left with scraps. Your boss makes significantly more than you do, their boss makes significantly more than them, and the majority of the profits are directed to investors who contribute nothing of substance to the company. You take a job that pays well that you can tolerate - few of us "love what we do" because we're often doing things we don;t benefit from directly, are doing things we know are incorrect but that;s what the boss wants, or doing things we really don;t understand just to make ends meet. Quit your job and you will find yourself homeless and starving - at least, that's the message.

You need to recapture the meaning in your life. I worked like a dog for years, traveling the world, leaving very little time left for the family I built, the family I wanted. When my father got sick, I had to move to be closer to him, but my wife and kid had to stay behind. We were separated for seven months. That forced separation killed my soul. When I took the time to stop and evaluate the situation, I realized I was so angry because I missed them - that all I ever wanted was to be with them, that even my job was a hindrance to that. When things settled with my dad and I could move back home, I tried to figure out how to change things so I could focus more on what matters to me - my family, my home, the communities that support me that I choose to support and participate in.

I lost my job just before the pandemic, and all the interviews that seemed very far along suddenly stopped as those companies circled the wagons in the face of uncertainty. I watched my savings was rapidly dwindle. My family adjusted and started to learn to live with less - less eating out, less buying things to fill the void of loneliness we felt, etc. After a couple of abortive attempts to get a new job, I decided to just start consulting. I hung out the shingle on LinkedIn (Like you, I thought I had killed my professional network, but I have built up a lot of goodwill over the years that loads of folks were eager to pay back - I bet you'll find the same) and got a couple of clients pretty quickly. It took six months of scraping and struggling and borrowing before we had enough consistent income I could relax.

It;s been two years now. I work from home and no longer travel unless absolutely necessary. Since I don't go into an office - and since I set my workload and hours - I have more time for things around the house. My garden is improving. My house is cleaner. I cook more elaborate meals for my family because I have the time and am in the right place to go and monitor things. We home school our son (he spends some time at a co-op style school as well) and I get to help - I often jump in with math and science issues and get to teach him things like programming and electronics.

The point is not that you need to quit your job and start consulting - that may not work for you. The point is to sit down and figure out what actually matters to you. You already said it - "a wife, kids, a house, meaningful work, etc." Do you have any of these things in your life? If so, it;s time to start readjusting your life to focus on them - these are the rewards for your efforts, you should enjoy them now as life is short.

But, in re-reading, it sounds like perhaps work and life may have prevented you from finding that family. 43 is still quite young, and you have plenty of time left - truly - to find peace and love in your life. But you need to readjust your focus. Let go of the idea that your value lay in the money you make - that is an insidious lie used to control you and force you to work for pennies. We spend too much time optimizing for money as a society and practically zero time optimizing for humanity. You can't change the world - but you can change YOUR world. YOU don;t need to optimize for money. Figure out how to live comfortably with less - all we truly need in life is to be well fed, well loved, and well rested. Figure out what that means specifically for you - for it;s different for everyone - then put your focus on that. Make enough money to support your efforts in finding personal peace and happiness, but don't sacrifice your own happiness for money. You did that for 43 years - so did I - but, together, we can be done with it.

Do you wish you were a happier, more congenial, more friendly person? Then BE that person. Who do you admire and what do you admire about them? Impersonate those qualities until you can truly call them your own. And forgive yourself when you screw it up - because you will screw it up again and again. That's not a personal flaw, that's just being human. Forgive yourself, love yourself, and learn from your mistakes. It's hard work, but it's the most satisfying and will pay in far greater dividends than any job you have ever had.

And becoming a caring, empathetic person has a tendency to draw other good, empathetic people to you. Build a community of people who support you, and whom you can also support. Your friends, your chosen family, groups to which you belong that you genuinely feel improve your world - seek them out with patience for them and yourself. And make sure you stop on a regular basis to evaluate things - many call this a practice of "gratitude" or "counting your blessings". Done wrong, it's just toxic positivity - "Oh things are bad? Just count your blessings!" Done right, it can give your perspective as well as lay out the path for you to follow - "I have a lot of good friends, but I still feel a bit disconnected. Let's try engaging with them in a different way - being more honest and open, or spending more time listening than talking, or suggesting an activity for us rather than just doing whatever they want..."

If you need help from a professional like a therapist, seek it. But you mentioned having a hard time getting access to mental health services. A therapist at this point is helpful as someone neutral to whom you can speak and get everything in your head out - like laying the pieces on the table to examine them and figure out why they aren't fitting. If you can't find a therapist, find a friend. or use ChatGPT. Or start a podcast or diary just for yourself and no one else, a safe space to share and explore your thoughts. The simple act of approaching these problems with the intent to examine and find a solution to them is often enough to unstick whatever is holding you back and get you started on a path toward a better life, so try something now and don't give up.

You got this.

texasbigdata 3 years ago |

George Bush right?

Abraham Lincoln?

Etc

paxys 3 years ago |

Step 1 of turning your life around is to get off HN, Reddit and 4chan.

sgt 3 years ago | |

Stay on the former.

ArcMex 3 years ago |

First, find a job.

Any job you are willing to do.

That should add some stability in your life as a start.

cmilton 3 years ago |

Your life is only going to be what you make of it. I believe in you.

unknownaccount 3 years ago |

You should stop going on Reddit. It’s like poison for your soul.

bvivek77 3 years ago |

Stop taking control of your life. Live like a fish in an ocean.

milsebg 3 years ago |

This could be me. It is interesting to see how close some details are: My home country is (based on your user name) the same as mine, I do have the same dreams, I do have approx. the same savings. Im just a little younger and I didn't get my education in the US.

So, I really, really can relate to your situation.

Here is what worked for me:

First: Radical self-acceptance. Your outlook to the future determines your success in reaching your goals. That's the hard part, and I'm not there, yet, too.

Second: If you struggle with self-acceptance, apply what I call the Paradox of Specificity.

In professional sports, any exercise should be specific to the training goal to achieve maximum results. If, for example, you're training for a marathon, there is little value in doing chest presses all the day. This rule of specificity to me, is very appealing. It just works like programming: Effort in, result out. However, the rule of specificity does not apply to the way more complex thing that we call "life". Take dating for example. If anything you do with your time is somehow "looking" for a partner, you will most likely fail. This is the part where specificity is actually causing harm.

So, what I did: I created a mindset that I can influence my well-being. The reasoning is easy: If I see that I can change things for the better, I will continue to do things.

First, I started with a proper diet, then I added some sports. The first months already were amazing, so I read everything I could. I optimized my Gym training plan, my diet, my supplements, I experienced with medications, oxygen therapy, cold exposure, sauna, red light exposure and everything I could find. The results: - More confidence as I went from overweight to below 10% body fat - more overall well-being, better sleep, no fatigue - the idea that I really control what's going on in my life was planted in my head

Second, I put myself into uncomfortable situations: I walk every day at least 10k steps, no matter the wheather. I end my shower with cold as long as I could (increasing number of seconds each time), so that my mind gets programmed to complete a task even in uncomfortable situations.

Also, I did things that I would never have done before. Public speaking, travel in solitude (which I admit has felt like loneliness sometimes), practising martial arts.

Third, start to get rid of negative things: Avoid toxic people, avoid alcohol, and other drugs, limit my caffeine intake, no more junk food.

And now, where am I? I'm still struggling with positive perception of the future but I see this gets better every day. I am more open to people and I feel that I "attract" positive vibes around me. I was guest on a marriage and I was able to build strong relationships with other guests. Something I thought I've lost (or just became too old).

A word on therapy: Not sure about your insurance, but if you can afford it, take some "retreat" for 6weeks in a nice clinic that offers nature, sports, good food, therapy sessions and whatnot. This distance from your usual day to day life and the support you get, can be a booster. But: Tell them what you want, put the effort in. I know how harsh that sounds: But no therapist can help if you just sit there and complain how bad everything is.

Btw, getting back to the US seems appealing for me too, right now, even if the timing is not right from an economic pov.

If you want to chat, give me a note here and we'll find a way to connect

alchemyromcom 3 years ago |

I'm 40 right now and just started my first real career-type job this year. At 39 I was still a co-op student. It's honestly fine. The world is changing and it's way more common for "adult learners" to be part of the co-op, intern, and new hire cohorts. Most of the older ones are admittedly in their 30s, but I knew a guy that was starting over in his 50s and it was fine.

That's not to say getting a career will stop you from having miserable thoughts. I'm not sure why it's the case, but some people are just more miserable than others. I fantasized deeply about blowing my brains out all morning, for example, just because I had double-booked two clients in the morning and didn't know how I was going to handle it--luckily one of them cancelled, so I'll live to see another day.

In other words, a career might not solve all your problems. Many people here have suggested therapy, and though I don't personally believe in therapy as I think it's a way to enforce compliance to an increasingly dysfunctional society, it's probably the right advice for both you and also me.

Therapy aside, I would like to give you advice about how to salvage your resume after more than a decade out of the workforce.

The key to this is community colleges that have work placements. Here in Canada, those are called co-ops and they are a really good deal. If you do everything right, and get all the bursaries available, you'll likely make a small profit on your college career, rather than lose money--but that's in Canada, and it could be different in other countries.

The great thing about co-ops is that they put applicable experience on your resume where you had none before(1). And if you need more, many community colleges also have additional year-long certificates co-ops (in Canada they are called graduate certificates) that can give you even more applicable work experience.

After just two years and 3 co-ops, all my NEETING days had finally disappeared and my resume now looks stacked.

Something that is important, however, is you pick something that actually has jobs. That narrows down your choices quite a bit, and it's mostly going to be IT related, but it could also be trade related, like a line man or even getting your CDL (commercial truck drivers license).

I would even suggest not going into IT, if your battling with your own mind, as it requires a lot of mental fortitude to consider systems and code and humans not doing what you thought they would do--that's a big trigger for the miserable among us, I suspect.

I would actually suggest lineman instead. Think of the freedom and the fresh air and the lack of clients. It's not such a bad future, once you dig into it. And please don't do anything stupid. There's still lots of life to live.

1--It's also a different hiring process than finding a regular job, and it's understood that you don't yet have experience when you talk with potential employers.

donkeyofd00m 3 years ago |

It's funny. I was recently in a rut like yourself since 2020. Aibet younger, 28. Total 180 as of last month

I work a good stable engineering job (mech, not tech), but am very bored of it. I clock in and out on autopilot. Unengaged

I have many interests, but I don't DO many things in my spare time beyond reading or consuming passive entertainment

I broke up with my girlfriend maybe 6 months ago, probably waited way to long to do so out of fear of being alone. Been on a few dates, but just going through the motions seeing girls who liked me but I felt apathetic about

I have seldom but a few good friends. I usually never initiate any outing, just wait for invites to trickle down my way, trying my best to shield sense of insecurity in my social life

For some reason last month everything clicked like getting hit with a sack of potatoes. I just got rejected by a girl who I thought I was pretty interested in

On our last date, I tried flirting with her in a way which was bold for me and out of my usual comfort zone (not creepy), but it felt extremely natural and right to do at that moment. It's funny. I didn't care about being rejected one bit beyond minnor sexual frustration. My pride in my honest approach stayed and lingered. And if she does not see the value of what I'm proud in, fuck it, nice girl, but we probably just aren't a compatible match! Nothing lost

It's weird how the (my?) brain works that way, but my confidence and pride in myself shot up through the roof instantly after and has stayed. It reminded me of some very important things:

1. Social life, career and dating are all connected in the sense that REALLY it's not about others or externalities; you do need to make an active effort to bump shoulders with others, but the effort becomes easy if treated primarily as a self improvement exercise. Take any steps no matter how small to become someone you'd be proud of

I thought to myself for a year "dammit, I want a job in X new field, but have no idea how to network into it, it's so hard!". Stayed dormant out of fear. Fuck it. I realised "Hey, I made a good impression with multiple friend's parents at a wedding… they worked long careers in something unrelated, why not blitz general advice from them? Can't hurt". I started calling them; a few duds, but others are really good at giving me soft advice. Just with small general tips, it lowered the anxiety bar to take action so much… the small things do pile up and can make you freeze up! It made me realise "oh ya, this isn't a scarry insurmountable task, I CAN do this, it DOES make sense for me and I DO have value to provide"

2. You may think you're inferior to others because you don't have X or Y. I did. But I realised it's not HAVING X or Y which makes you confident and fufilled, it's PURSUING X or Y, and all of us have all the agency in the world to purse what you want

I have been telling myself for ages I want to join an improv comedy group. I already knew there was a place by me that gives lessons. Never signed up, because, I was scared to feel like a loser I guess. Fuck it. When that girl rejected me, I drove down there the next day, asked the guys behind the counter "alright, your website is confusing, tell me where to start, I'm signing up today". It starts next year. The act alone of pursuing my interests just shot my confidence up so much. I'm becoming a person I love again, and all it took was signing a form

3. You probably have a ton of great qualities in yourself, and probably have flaws just like everyone else too. But what people will sense is if you are focused on your qualities OR flaws. Be kind to yourself; you have a lot to offer, focus on bringing that to people

Reading your post, I see a few things. In "the good" section, you mention many negatives. Severe procrastination, some savings from "that one time before when you were so much more cool than today", age as a negative. Dude, that stuff is fine! Everyone procrastinates sometimes, people have high and low points, people age. But telling yourself you're a severe procrastinator gives you an unconscious excuse to not make baby steps towards the life you want to live. Saying you're 43 unconsciously tells you you're too late in life to qualify for love or a good career. You're NOT. You're only too old once you're dead. Seriously

From your post, I can see you're a caring as fuck guy (moving countries to help your dad… like, you really cared!), intellectually smart and curious (post undergrad degree, posting in HN), very self observant. You may think that's small. No. Don't discount that. It's great. It's fine to speak about areas you want to improve with peers, but remember, you ARE capable and can do so

If you ever think you're lacking some qualities which you can achieve through action and are insecure about, just remind yourself of points 1 and 2. You can be proud of yourself today, and proud-er-er tomorrow with action

4. Don't be afraid to say no to things that don't feel right, don't be afraid to ask for what you want

I turned down some of the girls I was seeing before who I didn't care much about. As soon as I did, I noticed my mental bandwidth, focus and confidence rose. I know who I am, what I want… very nice girls, but I want more than nice on paper or would bring social validation. I CAN be selective. I'm worth it. With what I can offer, why settle for less

I recently went into a university psychology study for a girl I haven't spoken to since undergrad just for fun (we are all nerds here, studies are fun). Doing the study, I realised she is pretty cute, enough for me in the past to be scared to talk to her. Hmmm. Decided to ask her out over email once she gave me the study results like it was 1999. I was a little scared; I thought "oh no, do I look like a creepy weirdo? Does she think I did this study just to ask her out? She must have a boyfriend". She didn't. It worked. I'm seeing her this week. And if it didn't, I just wouldn't hear back from her while I'm still working on myself! Nothing to lose!

5. Peers help in so many ways. Humans are social and accountability is infectious. If you can choose between doing something you'd want alone (apply for job posting on linkedin) or with peers (message someone at X firm who posted that job on linkedin),try to always pursue the social option when apropreate. Always be pursuing new connections, as many opportunities in all categories in life can come from unpredictable connections. You will also develop commodore and be less lonely

6. Don't beat yourself up if you make mistakes or slip up, it's okay to have downtime after taking a shot at a step to make you happy. Be kind to yourself. I make mistakes everyday, but I don't lose anything with trying. When you get a few bites with progress, the confidence starts to snowball and your desires become much more clear

Sorry for the length, but I hope some of this will help. You got this. Feel free to reach out if you want to shoot the shit about whatever

Thanks for coming to my Ted talk

theGnuMe 3 years ago |

You sound like a great son who did a noble thing for your family and father. That's part of your story.

It may be hard to internalize this but you are still young. Statistically, you've got half your life to live yet. Plenty of regular guys have kids when they are older (I see many new dads in their 40s, 50s and 60s).

You've reached out which is good. You know something is off. You want to get better. You want to live which is your internal life force reaching out. It wants you to move forward with life.

Suicidal thoughts are common, so when you mean ideation, have you come up with a plan? If so what's your plan? What steps can we take to prevent you from acting on that plan? If that means checking into the hospital do that. Your future self will thank you. You've got to put obstacles in the way to acting on the ideation when you are "clear headed".

The next thing you can do is find a therapist. I know that when you are depressed it is really hard to do that. It feels like the last thing you want to do. Depression in its full capacity can incapacitate you and seems insurmountable. I remember being bedridden for weeks. Happened twice in my life. Eventually I recovered enough on my own but after going to therapy I've realized that therapy works way faster than self-help and medications. Self help can help push you along until you find a therapist or for the in between times.

To pick a therapist just pick anyone qualified at this point that can see you today or tomorrow. Tell them it is an emergency. And keep going to therapy. Ask them to prescribe some actionable things for you to do.

In terms of Actions that helped me in addition to therapy.

1. Quit all chemicals like alcohol and drugs. At least until you are feel better. Commit to that.

2. Eat 3 square meals a day of nutritious food. Go outside and talk a walk everyday.

3. Now watch a couple tv shows (if reading is too difficult):

First on Netflix there is a documentary on Phil Stutz called "Stutz". He is excellent and provides what he calls The Tools (thetoolsbook.com). Watch this and then read up on the tools (and watch the youtube videos). You can pay for some audio and videos as well which may help. The tools is a set of visualizations that are useful for dealing with depression, anxiety etc... It can be hard to see when to apply them but go with it. Keep these tools in the background of everything you do.

Second there is a tv show called Limitless with Chris Hemsworth. This show is about training your body and your mind together to handle stress. The breathing and cold exposure stuff is similar to Wym Hoff. Wym Hoff breathing is super useful as is the cold exposure stuff. Watch this show. Practice breath technique and cold exposure. Increase your stress tolerance. There are small safe exposure steps you can take vs jumping off the deep end so to speak. This is stuff like Wym Hoff breathing (lie down when you do it) and taking cold showers to start.

4. Journaling. Imagine you're writing about you as if you are your best friend. Write down what you are thinking and maybe start with a history of yourself. Try taking a 3rd person perspective rather than a first person one.

5. Medications like anti-depressants can help break the hold depression has but you still have to do the psychological work. You may or may not need them. They can increase depression at first especially in younger folks). A doctor can help here. It is important to tell them you need help.

6. Reach out to friends and family and connect with others. Invite someone out for coffee or if asked to go out do that. If you don't have any, volunteer where you can make new friends over a shared context. Even if you are not religious and the only options nearby are associated with a church, go volunteer. Consider going to church. It is important to connect with other people and be of service to others. Again you don't have to buy into the religion thing. What you are buying into is our shared humanity. You have to take the initiative to reach out to others.

Stutz says that if you're lost, depressed or feeling stuck, it's important to work on your Life Force first. Your life force is like a pyramid. At the bottom is your body, in the middle is other people and at the top is yourself.

Anyone can work on their life force at any time. What I've described above are steps to do that.

kabanossen 3 years ago |

You have a wonderful life ahead of you. 43 is nothing and you can have all the things you long for.

So I've ripped what people in the thread has written and compiled for you, like an action list. Hope it helps.

- CONTACT A THERAPIST to find out if you have a depression or some other mental illness. Illnesses are things you can get help to deal with.

- MEDITATION! Preferably do it in the morning but works any time of the day (when it fits your day) I like this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwQkfoKxRvo

If it's too dopey for you try this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inpok4MKVLM

or this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZToicYcHIOU

Repetition is what makes meditation work, you'll be more present, more aware of the world you're in with less disturbing thoughts and feelings.

- CHANGE TO A POSITIVE OUTLOOK OF YOUR LIFE. Your problem is your framing of where you are in life. Visualize building your ideal life and repeat the visualization every day. I googled "visualizing a better life" and got these, you can probably do better

https://www.happierhuman.com/visualization-techniques/

https://jamesnussbaumer.com/visualize-a-better-life/

https://taminglife.com/improve-life-goal-visualization/

- BROWSE THROUGH THESE MOTIVATIONAL IMAGES at breakfast and before bed, take notice when something applies to your life. Repetition is key, do this every day (and if you miss a day it's no biggie, just do it again)

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1yTrJkmUUFAzlhuQ5ZzyG...

- AVOID NEWS if you can, it feeds your mind with fear, angst and anxiety

- JOIN A SOCIAL GROUP (music, art, volunteering, courses, church, craft...)

- YOUR LOOKS CAN HELP YOU - change your haircut and clothes to imitate your image of a happy and successful person

- VISUALIZE THE HOME YOU'D LIKE TO LIVE IN, repeat regularly.

helpfulclippy 3 years ago |

First, let's ditch the idea of "prime of your life." If you assign some magical value to the years you have already spent, then it doesn't matter what you do from now on, those "best years" are always behind you. Poisonous thinking.

Yes, in our 20s and 30s we have lots of capabilities that we begin to lose when we are older. If someone told you that your younger years would be filled with something that it wasn't, then I'm sorry you were misled, but consider then that you have been misled about the limits of an "old man" at the ripe old age of 43.

It sounds like you beat yourself up for not magically teleporting yourself out of your present situation. You can't. You can grow into something new, but it takes patience. A few years is actually quite a long time, and a lot can happen in them. All you have to do is be consistent. I know that sounds hard. For constant procrastinators and self-deceivers like us (or at least like me), consistency is kryptonite!

I was very depressed for quite a while... divorced, unemployed, and alone in an unfamiliar city. I did two things that I credit with helping me find my way out. The first is, I wrote down several aspirational sentences. One was about the career I wanted. Another was about the relationship I wanted with a woman someday. Another was about the kind of dad I want to be. And the last was about the kind of human being I want to be. I wrote these down every single day. I tweaked them over time, and in so doing got a clearer picture of who I really am.

The second thing I did was be honest with myself every day about something I did that helped me get where I wanted to go with any of those things. Early on, I had to teach myself to take credit for what seemed like very small victories. If I wrote even one line of code, I counted it as a win. If I took a walk or otherwise got some exercise, that was a win. Going to places where I might be able to network was a win, even if I didn't actually connect with anyone. If I had even just an interaction with a woman who I found interesting, I counted it as a win.

What I learned was that I had no idea when things would happen, or how. Despite writing my statements down each day, I had a hard time seeing how I could find a partner in my situation. One day, I did. It was most unexpected, and I never saw it coming. But I think if I had not kept reminding myself what I wanted, I would not have gotten it.

My life is definitely not perfect, and there is much I still want to grow into to really live up to those statements. But I can point to some of it and be very proud now, and I can feel myself making progress towards what's missing.

Set your direction, and then learn to be happy with very slow and small steps, and eventually you'll find yourself taking giant ones in rapid succession. Good luck!

jsonne 3 years ago |

I've been in some dark places myself with it all culminating about 4 years ago with the birth of my son and I had everything going "right" and all the things you claim to desire. I had a successful small ad agency, was married, lived in a cool city, etc. and yet was still in a dark place. Don't fall into the trap thinking that simply ticking these boxes will improve your life, certainly material changes to things can make a big difference but they won't "solve" it. I emphasize this because most of the advice here is focused on changing your material condition (which makes sense this is a forum dominated by engineers) but that isn't the whole story.

I would also question your analysis of the situation which seems to rest on this mistaken understanding of time. Plenty of people have everything you want and die at 50 or younger. Plenty of people are in your shoes and live to be 100. Don't assume you do or don't have time left to do these things.

Years of therapy started me on the path. Progress was slow at first, gradual for a long time, and then I seemingly hit a number of breakthroughs that really accelerated things in the past year. The biggest things you can do today, yes today, are get your diet in order if it isn't already, start going to the gym regularly if you aren't already, meditate daily (it actual changes the structure of your brain). There's some evidence that ice baths and sauna bathing can help a lot. (It did for me). I listen to the Huberman podcast and if you're scientifically minded he's a Stanford neurologist who talks through things that can help like depression, anxiety, etc on a chemical level and how it can help us improve our lives. Also if you're a big drinker or use some sort of drugs you need to work first off towards moderating those or consider entirely eliminating them from your life for at least the short term. I entirely stopped drinking for 6 months and now it's an extremely rare occurrence. It's not going to fix things but it will keep them from getting worse.

Longer term don't be afraid to explore meds if needed (with the advice of a doctor of course), despite the wide demonization they get from others in tech adderall changed my life significantly for the better (but know it's a push not a silver bullet). In the process with therapy I learned not to hate myself, I found (re-found) my religion, and am starting to make genuine friendship and connections. I also found the writings of Marcus Aurelius in Meditations to be extremely useful. If the literal emperor of Rome felt like how I do every day surely I am not alone.

Is my life perfect? Not at all. Did material things like changing my job, moving half way across the country, cutting old friendships etc help? Absolutely! The above list sounds borderline cliche and it basically is because the advice works. My biggest thing I want to emphasize though is that start slow. Don't shift perfectionism to your self improvement. Again emphasizing diet and exercise even a 15 minute walk a day and cutting our processed foods can do more than you think and you can't talk your way out of biology. Email is in my DMs if you want to talk. We're all in it together. I once heard that the whole universe is love. We're either all screaming out for love (through sadness or anger or both) or we're giving it. It sounds so flippant but it really is true. Hope this helps and hope you find your path. If it's any help I'm a total stranger and odds are we'll never chat but know I am rooting for you.

PM_me_your_math 3 years ago |

Recognizing there is an issue to address is the half-way point. You are half-way to where you want to be. Celebrate that fact. Few people get that far.

I think the problem you are having is related how you perceive yourself - your positive self-image has been destroyed and replaced with a negative self-image. Please read Psycho-Cybernetics by Dr. Maxwell Maltz. It is a fundamental life-changer that posits our actions and thoughts are a result of how we perceive ourselves, and that this perception is the result of our upbringing and experiences. This isn't just a self-help book. It is the grand-daddy of all books ever written that attempt to build a construct around the most complicated thing in the universe. I'd go so far as to say that book is the foundation for two generations of therapists and self-help personalities. I'm over-simplifying it, of course. Read it. If does nothing else for you, the epiphanies it creates will be satisfying and give you a much-needed perspective, for it seems obvious to me that your problem is mostly related to your mindset.

It is never too late to achieve any goal or dream so long as you are still willing to chase them. Many people don't start a family until they are in their 40s. Some of the most successful businesses were started later in life. Some people don't find happiness (true happiness) until their 60's. This is life. Its different for everyone and there is barely any reason to it so don't try to understand or deconstruct it. Know thyself and nothing more.

I was foolishly trying to find happiness in work or in the many companies I started; even if some were successful, it was all empty until I became aware of meaningless things. I didn't start a family until 38 and didn't find true happiness and real purpose until the moment my first child was born. In my view, this is the meaning of life. If humanity exists for a singular purpose, it is to have children. That doesn't mean you have no purpose if you, by choice or circumstance, have no children. Many people find purpose outside of our natural purpose.

Absent of that experience, the focus should be self-improvement in the areas of mind, body and soul. Improve yourself and others will gravitate to you. Inside of all of us there is a light. Let your light shine. Your light unconsciously gives other people permission to shine.

Ideas for entrepreneurial projects do not come from within. They come from outside and concern themselves with the needs, desires, and pains of others. If you try to sit around and think of them, you will not discover them. You need to look outside of the box, start with a customer in mind and work your way backwards through who they are, what they struggle with, and what they say to themselves about it (internal dialogue - the key to most any business is to get in between the conversation that takes place inside of the customer's head.)

Lastly, if you ever wanted to just talk, I'm a great listener. Good luck to you.

the__prestige 3 years ago |

[From ChatGPT] I'm sorry to hear about the difficult circumstances you've been facing. It's understandable that you would feel overwhelmed and unsure of where to begin in trying to make positive changes in your life. It's important to remember that it's never too late to make positive changes and to work towards a life that brings you fulfillment and happiness.

One thing that might be helpful is to try breaking down your goals into smaller, more manageable steps. This can make it feel less overwhelming and make it easier to see progress. For example, if you would like to return to the US, you might start by researching what steps you would need to take in order to do so. This might include finding out about any visa or immigration requirements, looking into job prospects or educational opportunities, or networking with people who may be able to offer guidance or support.

It might also be helpful to seek out support from others, whether through therapy, joining a support group, or simply talking to friends or family members who can offer a listening ear. It can be very helpful to have someone to talk to and to share your struggles and goals with.

Finally, try to be kind to yourself and remember that change takes time. It's okay to take things one day at a time and to celebrate small victories along the way.

I hope these suggestions are helpful, and please don't hesitate to reach out if you have any other questions or if there's anything else I can do to support you.

monero-xmr 3 years ago |

You are in a deep hole right now with multiple issues that feed off each other, affect your mental state, and make it hard to solve any one of the issues.

Obviously I am only going off of what you wrote here, which is brief and lacking all the context. I have absorbed it and am responding the way I interpreted it, and I could be way off.

You have a lot of regret, and regret feeds into "rumination" - the endless loop of replaying past events and perceived failures in your head. You should accept that today is a new day, you still have half your life left, and endlessly worrying and fixating on the past is not going to help you get out of this hole. Probably at this point you have thought about the past so much that there isn't much that thinking about it more will do.

Next, you should forgive yourself. You aren't a failure. You aren't a loser. Mistakes in the past are just that - mistakes. People can change and the first step is recognizing you want to change. You have so much time left and so much to live for.

You have something that so many people on earth want badly - their health and decades of life left to live. You can't imagine how many sick, elderly, disabled people would trade places you in a heartbeat. That isn't to say those people are without value (absolutely not!) I am just trying to put in your mind how blessed you are that you have your health and a long time to fix your issues.

You are not in any current mental state to date someone. I would focus on healing yourself and making yourself desirable to someone else before attempting the wife and kids, otherwise it will be a lot of regret. Dating is putting your best self out there as an attractive mate and being very depressed, anxious, and full of self-loathing will lead to more rejection which will just fuel more of the same feelings. You need to work on yourself before you can be ready to find a life partner. And plenty of men have kids in their late 40s or 50s - I know a guy who just had a kid at 65, for better or worse. As a male you can have children until the day you die, if that's what you want. The door is not closed on this.

Multiple other problems are here. Loneliness and lack of purpose are coming through strong. I think you should try and get a job (even a minimum-wage one) or volunteer in a place that involves other people. This could be at a restaurant, a pizza parlor, at a soup kitchen, working a customer-facing position, something low-risk where if you just can't hack it you can quit without much of an issue or reputational harm. You will start talking to people regularly and often you will interact with them not just about work or solving their customer issue, but start chatting about the weather, their families, and perhaps deeper things. I think this will help you come out of your self-imposed NEET shell and start becoming a normal person again. Often these jobs will lead you to getting to know your coworkers better and you might get invited to work-parties or similar things. There is no shame in working a food job or something like this, all work has value and provides purpose.

Finally, I have no idea if you are religious at all, but investigating religion or the spiritual side of existence may help you. Attending a Sunday worship be it Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, or whatever has absolutely no requirement of you and it may deeply affect you in a way you aren't expecting. You can always leave or never come back, you may want to give it a try. Thoughts of the afterlife and "what all this means" is a common issue for people entering their mid-life and exploring this facet of existence may be helpful to you.

Good luck! You can do it. Don't give up! You made it this far, and you can make it farther. One day at a time.

MollyRealized 3 years ago |

Having dealt with some of what you are dealing with, I will share some thoughts.

There's tremendous social power in humility. Go onto LinkedIn, and start connecting with people you know from elementary, high school, college, and your master's. Reconnect with those you were closest with once upon a time. You can also simply ask for advice from some poeple by asking for informational interviews with them.

Remember that depression, anxiety and mental disease will make you lie to yourself. For example, I hear shades of those lies when I see you say something is "too late" or a "pity case" or that you "wallowed" and so let your life pass you by. These are all lies.

I think that very few people - excluding, you'll pardon the profanity, assholes - would not understand taking care of your father, then taking care of your family and grieving. In fact, many people will greatly respect you for that. Again, your depression may be lying to you there.

Again, another lie: 43 is not too late for a wife or kids.

It is difficult that you do not have mental health resources nearby you. I get the impression you are not in the U.S., and so I don't know what the state of telehealth is in your country, but here in the U.S. a large amount of therapists meet with their client via video screen, making distance less of a concern. Maybe that is happening where you are.

If not, I would recommend learning about something called "learned helplessness". It is in a book called "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. It explores how we explain things to ourselves, and how people can get into the habit of explaining bad events as personal faults. I feel that's what you're doing.

Two things you might want to do that might seem childish, but could be useful. The first is to wear a rubber band on your wrist, and each time you hear yourself deriding yourself, snap it against your wrist. You'll begin to become a lot more conscious of the messages you are sending yourself.

The other suggestion is to start adding a few words to each insult you tell yourself. "Right now, my mind is telling me that ... ". "Right now, my mind is telling me that I'm worthless." The idea is to start associating the fact that these statements are a mental message, not the truth.

There are a lot of people whose lives didn't begin until their forties. I don't know if you ever watched the TV show "Frasier," but the actor who played his dad didn't start acting until his forties. There are a lot of other people who didn't begin until later in life.

And what you have done already is not throwing away your life. You got a master's and helped your father and your family. These are all hard and noble things. I am telling you as an objective stranger: it is okay for you to feel proud of yourself for these things. None of this is shameful.

99b12e2d358bb03 3 years ago |

> There are no mental health facilities in the small town where I live.

There are some excellent suggestion in this thread, but the above comment seems inadequately addressed. The absence of adequate mental health facilities is a serious barrier. Virtual, remote and phone-based mental health interventions are useful tools, but often ineffective on their own. In-person support nourishes our need for connection. I say this from experience. My father, who lived in a rural setting and suffered from alcoholism, died unexpectedly after his in-person addictions support ceased during the pandemic and was replaced with phone-based counseling. Your situation differs in many important ways, but it is important to be realistic about interventions and their effectiveness.

In the absence of mental health facilities, I would encourage you to consider religious groups in your area. It's important to recognize that organized religion provides many social goods even if we may find their claims questionable. If organized religion is anathema to you, I would encourage you to approach it in a secular manner. Not as a source of truth but instead as a collection of myth, practice and wisdom that has nourished the souls of many before you.

I know this can be hard for some people to seriously consider, but I would encourage you to at least give it a try. I have never found a human settlement that had no religious group and often there are many to choose from. Consider finding the group with the most beautiful building or greatest reverence for particular human endeavor (art, music, meditation, etc). Once you find one you can tolerate best, then commit to it for a fixed period of time and take its rituals seriously. This means attending weekly sessions (all of them - you have the time), volunteering (build those connections), and ideally finding people you enjoy being with. And think seriously about the foundational document or creed that the group considers. Ancient creeds may be dressed up in religious wording but these sacred resources have guided humanity long before us and will do so for a very long time. You may find yourself enlightened when you consider that some of these ancient prophets and religious thinkers were struggling at the forefront of human thought to write down ideas for which words did not exist. At the very least ask "What are these authors trying to say?". Consider being charitable given billions of humans have found these religious ideas worthy of preservation over thousands of years. You never know, you might even come to value them too.

For example, one thing you will almost always learn from these ancient, sacred texts is that the good things of life such as a wife, children, home and meaningful work were attainable to men much, much older than you. These blessings of life can be yours as well.

You are never as alone as you think you are, and thing are never as hopeless as they seem. Getting started will be hard I am sure. Breaking the chain of negative thought will require effort. Life contains suffering and pain, yes. But the good things you desire are worth the struggle. If you can find nothing good in yourself to admire, then simply begin with admiring your desire for a wife, children, a home and meaningful work. These are admirable things and admirable is the man that desires them. My hope is you will admire yourself as I admire you.

Godspeed!

Tangurena2 3 years ago |

Yes, you can turn things around.

41-42 was the killer for me. Lost jobs (tech job meltdown in 2000/2001), broke up with long term girlfriend, car repoed, 911, mother died, condo foreclosed, storage shed sold at auction, all in a 10 month period. When looking back at that period, I sometimes wonder how I survived. When it all crashed down around me, some people I knew from online gaming took me in. All I had was a car and what fit in the back. Moving to a different state made a huge difference.

43 is not too old for dating. My age is too old for dating. If wife & kids is a desire, then it needs to become a total priority. I put it off, and as a result too much time passed by. To achieve a wife and kids, I have to rob the cradle. You are still in the dateable range of women in their 30s. 45 may be too late, 50 is almost certainly too late.

I was saving up for expenses for a surrogate. Uninsured medical expenses destroyed that (even after the 90% discount they gave me for being uninsured). I had previously considered adoption, but Florida's child welfare dept decided to declare me "legally gay" and ban me from adopting in that state (several years after I left FL, the state changed adoption laws to allow gays/lesbians to legally adopt in FL). I had gotten involved in LGBT civil rights and the bureaucrats involved didn't think that any straight person would do that. Much like the thinking that no white person could possibly be involved in the Civil Rights movement back in the 1960s.

/r/depression might be helpful. Others that may be helpful for you: /r/mentalhealth , /r/SuicideWatch .

Exercise was helpful for me. Just walking about 30 minutes per day. In gyms, I find that I enjoy aerobic dancing. I found what works for me are group classes rather than doing weights or machines. I'm not trying to get all muscular. With group classes, I found that I have to fit to their schedule, so it makes telling bosses "gotta go, I'll be back in 90 minutes" as I can fit exercise breaks into my daily routines. This was extremely helpful when I worked from home.

Therapy was helpful. I've used therapy whenever I had insurance. I know there are some places that have sliding-scale rates for lower income people. Most men of my generation would rather die than admit any sort of weakness.

There is a DNA test that you can take that can help determine which anti-depressant medications would be helpful (or not). For example, mine said that I have a gene that makes escitalopram (Lexapro) not very useful for me (my body metabolizes it too fast). If your therapist thinks that SSRI-type antidepressants might be helpful, the test could cut down on much of the trial-and-error that goes into finding which medication works for you.

Keeping up with newer technology has always been important. In the 90s and early 2000s, my budget for tech books was about $100-150/month. Nowadays, stuff moves so fast that books are obsolete before they can be printed. I'm happy being a coder and I turn into someone I hate when I've been a manager/team lead.

> no vices at all other than severe procrastination and a masterful ability to lie to myself.

Heh, join the club.

mpdehaan2 3 years ago |

I don't post here much because I tend to hate the comments. When someone has shared a blog where I referenced mental health once, I was called out for it as "one of those people" and that's messed up.

Yes, tons of people go through this feeling and you never know because they don't talk about it.

In addition to info above - I'd share the following. You don't need these things to be better, necessarily, and anxiety will create traps to overemphasize the feelings of importance you have (and frequency) about certain thoughts. Comparison is also a source of dissatisfaction.

I would recommend talking with someone who can explain the traps of magical thinking and explain some resiliency techniques, as well as researching this on your own (i.e. CBT) but also looking pretty seriously into mindfulness and some of the core concepts that got built up around Buddhism.

People think of it as a religion but it's basically 2000 years of practice built up around mental health and understanding why people are unhappy and how to change that, and it solves it just by changing perspectives about thinking. Ignore the religious parts and it's still just as solid. Once you start to experience greater space between thoughts and understand some of the concepts about attachment to ideas and wants, and can minimize the concepts of "self", you can have a completely new perspective.

Anxiety will create a way to show you that you need things and you can't get to the things you have, and you don't really need those things (you can still get them) and the stories aren't necessarily true.

One of the dangers of programming is it teaches you to predict failure/disaster, and I think some of this thinking is an occupational hazard (running startups more so!) where you think you can anticipate how the future will work out and try to prevent "outages" of sorts, and this is something you have to avoid.

We tend to value thinking and the idea that thinking solves all of our problems, but the foreground thinking we do is not the most accurate and best parts of our minds, and takes us out from observing the things around us.

Finally, depression is technically a disease that has a bit of a feedback loop in it. It's difficult to reason in that situation. Don't make yourself try and don't worry about having timetables.

I also recommend the exercise suggestion and having some easy regular things to look forward to, even if it's just a couple of classes at the gym. Even that kind of socialization is often enough.

On the entrepreneurship question, I didn't have those skills either and still did ok -- that's just you probably wanting to be authentic and not fake. But making it isn't all you think either. Lots of people with a lot of wealth and success can still be unhappy, people with wives and kids can still be depressed.

Hence I think really diving into the mindfulness aspects and trusting in neuroplasticity is transformative - things can get better, even if they only get 1% better every day along some sort of Xeno's paradox curve, they are still getting better.

Even some basic supplement changes can make a big difference - vitamin D, adoptogens, etc. Rather than treating it like an experiment where you want to find one solution, it's reasonable to try a lot of things to make changes at once.

Another analog is burnout is kind of a form of brain damage (that can manifest about worrying about other things) - it takes a long time to recover from, so give yourself some credit and empathesize with having whatever issues, but realize they are also not "you".

lumenwrites 3 years ago |

In the developed countries, average life expectancy is about 70-80 years. So you've got 30-40 years left, a lot can be done in that time. You're healthy, have the money, and an opportunity to live in the US - sounds like a dream to me.

The world is getting increasingly more interesting, with all the crazy new tech, AI on the horizon, and just simple enjoyable things (new books, awesome movies and TV shows, cool new software and games to try out). Plenty of things to look forward to, very interesting to see how it'll all turn out.

I was mildly (not very seriously) suicidal in my early 20s, I'm really glad that I didn't go through with that. Life changes in unpredictable ways, sometimes for the worse, sometimes for the better. I think it's worth seeing it through for as long as you can.

There are more opportunities than ever to learn new skills and build new businesses. All of that feels overwhelming and hard at times, but it's a fun journey to step on, and to see where it goes.

It's a meaningless waste of time to compare real life to hypothetical alternatives you can build up in your imagination, comparing yourself to other people is a recipe for unhappiness.

I recommend aiming to compete with the yesterday's version of yourself, try to take steps forward and not have zero days, when you inevitably fail (as we all do) - pick yourself up as quickly as you can and keep going.

Try to clarify what you specifically want to accomplish, and what stands in your way. From there it's problem solving, like debugging code, trying to figure out how to take the next step, how to do the next right thing (without getting too freaked out and overwhelmed by all the work that's left to get done).

I have no idea if any of this is useful, or if it sounds like empty platitudes, but hopefully it helps.

Also, very important - make sure to do all you can to take care of your physical health. Diet, exercise, sleep. It sounds boring, but it's very easy to confuse messed up brain chemistry with bitterness/anger/depression caused by other things. Going for a run on a sunny day in a park won't fix all your problems, but I notice that every time I do this consistently, life feels a lot brighter, and challenges in front of me a lot more solvable. Some of it is because exercise is rewarding and feels like taking a step forward, some of it simply comes from better health and brain chemistry.

Regarding kids/family/wife - guys don't get a lot of actionable help, advice, or support in these matters these days. I'm going to risk recommending something most people will find inappropriate - "Blueprint Decoded" by RSD (you can find it on torrents). It is an old pickup course that was absolutely life-changing for me (and was one of the few things that really helped me with the whole not-killing-myself thing). I know how society looks at these things nowadays, but it would be wrong not to recommend something that was so incredibly helpful to me, something that had so much positive influence in my life. It is a place where you can look if you notice that the mainstream ideas and advice on dating aren't working too well.

If not that - then take a class, or find a hobby that involves interacting with people (improv and roleplaying games are my favorite, but there are plenty of other options). Look at meetups in your area (meetup.com). That's a great way to expand your social circle and meet people.

ROTMetro 3 years ago |

50 here. Spent half the last decade in prison. Lost my mom during that time. Climbing back up to where I want to be.

1. Depending on the relationship, you will never get over the loss of a parent. It's not something anyone ever said until my mom was passing/passed, and then everyone that had lost a parent told me that in private. It's ok to be that way and from what I can tell the norm.

2. I pretty much always had upper management/executive roles previously. When I got out, I worked sorting human/animal waste and worse at a recycling plant. I dug through filth/trash with a 'pull 60 pieces of cardboard out a minute from a high speed conveyor belt' no rest metric. Now, I am back to my previous social status level. Don't get hung up where you are, keep your focus on where you want to be. When you went to the USA you didn't complain that you were 'stuck over the ocean' because you knew in a few hours you would be where you wanted to go. You are over a desolate ocean for a little while but it's a passing thing (if you keep moving, if you give up, you are a permanent castaway).

3. Anger/bitterness is just self abuse. The Universe doesn't care how you feel or what is fair. So keep your head up, stand proud, turn that energy into something productive. My wallpaper says 'Bellum Romanum' because I put all my energy into countering the indifferent/adversarial system that wants to keep me down. You are a good man, you went to care for your father when so many are too selfish to do that. That put's you in the top 5% of people easy in my book.

4. Get some exercise. If you can, to the point you almost pass out from fatigue at night. That will help clear your mind of bs made up self defeating thoughts at night. Get your anger/hostility etc out here (but don't hurt yourself). Start super slow though, you hot enough, you don't need health problems.

5. You can still find someone and start a family.

6. The fact you reached out means you don't want to end things, you just want a break from the crap you are going through. Remember that. You want a break, not an out. A break, not an out. In prison, you look to 'get space from reality' in little ways. We would plan out weekend rice bowls or burritos for weeks. Plan things out, give yourself something to look forward to. Maybe it's making cookies, maybe it's a hike somewhere new. You need something to look forward to, and actionable steps you can take to get there. We were 'making moves' when we would get vegetables out of the kitchen, we were showing we still had some control, we were 'sticking it to the man'.

7. Stop unproductive things. If you are a computer geek single male, I'm going to go out on a limb. No porn dude. Your body/soul naturally want to push you to the whole family/connection thing. Don't short circuit that drive, harness it. You will find yourself way less numb without that garbage.

8. One day at a time. No one did anything instantly. Yesterday you took two steps backwards (or more likely, life/the Universe pushed you two steps backwards), that's ok, because you have today, and today you can work towards how you're going to get one of those steps back.

9. You want community? Make it. Every single person who doesn't burn you, deserves to be in your community. You are no better than anyone else, and people are not tools to get where you want, even if where you want is just healthy. So you be that community you want for everyone else (who hasn't burnt you). You will find yourself in an amazing community before you know it. I had people make sure 'I was good' on Thanksgiving. I had people push me to relationships with my kids so that on Thanksgiving, where by default I wasn't going to bother my sone, I called him and it was an AMAZING phone call. But that's because I had people who had my back, people that have been thrown away in the eyes of others every day of their life. How many people who are yearning for community too have you just looked past/looked through? Don't do that. See EVERYONE around you. They deserve to be seen, just like you want a community to SEE you.

I see you. You took care of you family. You are awesome. You are self aware enough to know you need a hand, and humble enough/willing to be vulnerable enough to reach out here. I would 100% be willing to have you in my community of friends. Keep your head up, keep moving, process your fathers death (remember anxiety is part of our grieving process, you lost stability with the loss of a parent and part of you will be in chaos), limit anger/anxiety/porn and other unproductive use of your energy, redirect to taking a step forward today, no matter how small, see people and treat them how you wish the world would treat you (as long as they don't burn you. Write off those that do, you gave them a chance). Make simple plans so you have things in life to look forward to (for me just waffles on the weekend can be that. Dude, waffle day is a good day. And grocery day is a good day because I'm getting stuff for waffle day vs I have no money to get what I used to eat and life sucks and poor me).

TLDR - You can do this. I can see the details in your post that show you will even if you don't see them.

burner77562 3 years ago |

40-sth german here, currently working through a very similar problem, which is why I'll use a burner account.

1. Extending professionally with a background in BI reporting and analytics, it's easy to get freelance work in germany. Build a CV, send them out to agents (I can highly recommend etengo¹, because they are transparent/open-book on the pricing for client and freelancer) - they'll do all the boring and tedious sales work you don't want to do. Keep in mind, that freelancing has its own stress factors (mainly instability and not being part of a team), which can aggravate your depression.

2. Enhancing your tech skills is easy nowadays, there are enough resources online. Play around with one or two interesting new skills as you see fit, put them into practical use with some toy project and write it down as a 6-month "failed startup" in your CV.

3. Therapists in germany are organized in semi-unofficial networks and will often refer you to collegues, if they feel that it's urgent and can't help you directly. Some networks offer a few out-of-the-order consultations to bridge the waiting time.

4. There's different levels of depression. It's vital that you are honest about them to yourself and to healthcare workers and use the emergency services, if you are feeling on acting on suicidal thoughts. They come in waves and while you might be just "a bit down" at times, a wave can drag you into acting on suicidal thoughts at other times.

5. German healthcare professionals do NOT have the direct authority to "institutionalize" someone for having suicidal thoughts (read that too often here). The only exception is when you are an immediate and real threat to yourself or to someone else. The bar for a forced institutionalization is extremely high and they are required to check the necessity with a judge in regular intervals. What they WILL do is thoroughly check if you want to voluntarily stay at a hospital to get you out of harms way.

6. If you speak german, I can highly recommend taking a MBCT course at the Benediktushof in Holzkirchen². MBCT in general is meditation and mindfulness, enriched with psychotherapeutic elements from CBT. The Benediktushof is a former monastery and has a lot more courses for meditation, but the real benefit is getting out of your current surrounding and resetting yourself - it helped me tremendously, and silence never feels as loud and comforting as it does there.

7. Do not attempt to fix your life through a relationship, you'll just hurt yourself (talking from too many experiences here). You first have to fix yourself up to a normal far-from-perfect-but-not-depressive level, the rest will come afterwards.

8. Psychotherapy for depression is essential, medication is not - but there's a level of depression, where the latter is simply necessary for a psychotherapy to be able to work. If a therapist sends you to a psychiatrist to talk about medication, do it - even if your mind rebels against that.

9. While things like a regular sport schedule (and even if it's just taking a walk in a park for 20min) and self-help material will help you in early stages or mild forms of depression, they are no substitute for professional help in the later stages.

¹ https://etengo.de

² https://www.benediktushof-holzkirchen.de/kategorie/kw/bereic...

moe091 3 years ago |

I think I can at least somewhat understand your position, despite still being in my 30s myself, and want to try and help despite my inexperience.

First thing, to answer the question in your post title: I know of people who have, I know many people who are in the addiction/recovery scene, and although I have a very pessimistic outlook on the chances of full/real recover for such issues, I do know at least a couple cases of people turning their lives around in their 40s from such problems. These were people who had a long list of criminal charges, absolutely no money, homeless/living on friends/families couches, very deep-rooted trauma and mental health issues, no healthy relationships, etc. People coming off of decades of heroin or alcohol abuse have to start at just about the lowest point possible. A small percent of people in that situation recover(as in getting and staying clean), and an even smaller percent are truly "healed" - to the point where they can prosper and gain inner wellbeing and actually prosper in life, but it does happen.

Even if it's only 2 or 3% of people in such circumstances, I don't think the outlook is as bleak as the numbers make it seem. That just means you have to be in the top couple % of people in how hard you work towards getting better, if you know the numbers then you know your goal - you have to do whatever those top 2-3% do, and then you will accomplish what they accomplished. In your situation, I'm sure the numbers are much better, as you actually have some money, some education and career experience, presumably less deep-rooted trauma and mental health issues, no criminal charges, a place to live, and maybe even some healthy friendships or family relationships (though I'm sure you have some unique problems of your own that complicate things, hopefully it's no so bad to outweigh all those other cons). I say all that to hopefully give you some hope, and also to give you some perspective that'll help you figure out what path you have to take to achieve the results you want.

Another bit of information that might give you some hope, is a quote from renowned psychologist Carl Jung, who famously said "Life begins at 40." He also talked a lot about "mid life" and how it often leads to a mental/spiritual crisis and results in deep depressions and/or intense anxiety. In his view this was part of the transition into the "second half" of life, and overcoming this crisis was a natural part of psychological maturity. I definitely don't have room to go into all of this here, but if you want to look into Jung's work I think it could really help you navigate this state your in(even if this mid-life transition isn't the primary cause, his work of course goes well beyond that and has helped so many people, including myself, recover from a state of suicidal ideation and meaningless existence)

The fact that you mentioned suicidal thoughts makes it clear that the problem is psychological at root - material circumstances can definitely make things worse, but people in a healthy psychological state can bear much more extreme troubles while maintaining a love for life. "A man with a 'why' can endure any 'what'" as another renowned psychologist, and holocaust survivor, Viktor Frankl said (I'd also recommend his book, "Mans search for meaning" - ESPECIALLY for someone who considers themselves a NEET). That being said, I think a professional psychologist is indispensable in your situation, even though suicidal people are often the least motivated to seek one out, you have to find a way to make yourself do it anyway, and believe me I know how hard that is in some cases. It doesn't help that finding a good therapist is extremely hard, and extremely crucial, as there are so many practicing therapists out there who either won't click with your or are just plainly not competent enough to help others with serious troubles.

I have a lot of my own ideas, and have studied a lot of psychology from different schools, but I'm in no way a psychologist or a therapist so I don't want to impose my views without a disclaimer. Jung says that people who overcome their own issues, which always seem like the most difficult issues imaginable to the person in question, they come out the other side with an inflated sense of the capabilities and a desire to help others, with the sometimes incorrect assumption that what worked for them will work for others. Personal issues always require a very personal solution, but if you wanted to discuss more I could at least give any advice I have on how to find your own personal solution. I know it may be harder for you than it was for me, as I went through all this at around 28-30 years old and I still had the view that I had plenty of life ahead of me if I did manage to get better, but other than that I think I can relate to what you said in many ways.

Reply to my comment if you want to talk more. And if you have anything specific you want to say feel free to - if not I'd be happy to just spew out a ton of information about my own experience, how it relates to yours, what helped me, and what I think you can expect in the process of getting better and the many ups and downs you'll likely experience on the way; knowing in advance what to expect can help a lot as you'll know what setbacks are coming and when you face them you'll be armed with the knowledge that such setbacks are inevitable and you are that much closer to your next victory, and therefore to your final victory, it can also help to know roughly which rung you are on on the "ladder" towards recovering so that, even if it's still a long and daunting climb ahead of you, you'll be motivated to keep going by the realization that you are one rung higher than you were last week and next week you'll be one rung closer.

moe091 3 years ago | |

If you choose to reply, I have a few questions just to get an idea of where your at.

In my opinion, all that stuff "healthy"/functioning people say to depressed people is technically correct, but completely missing the point and ignorant of the real problems(through no fault of their own of course, because how could they know?)

e.g. "being happy is a choice", "you just need exercise and sunlight!", "fake it till you make it", "perspective if everything, if you focus on the positives instead of the negatives you won't feel so bad", etc.. I could go on forever with those. If a severely depressed/suicidal person were able to do all of those things, it's true they wouldn't be depressed, but they usually can't, and in the few cases where they do it's often done without the belief and commitment necessary to make it effective. Not doing those things isn't the root problem IMO, the root problem is the thing that makes it impossible to follow all that advice. I think this is especially true for people who are NEETS or who have similar lifestyles to a NEET.

The question I wanted to ask though, is what is your current perspective on this type of advice? Do you do the things they say, do you attempt to, do you believe it could work, have you tried and failed to do those things?

And secondly, what is your outlook on life itself? Do you have meaning in your life, whether spiritual, religious or otherwise(personally I believe there are plenty of ways to find meaning outside of religion and whatnot, if you have something to believe in that's a good starting point though. If not, are you are a non-religious and non-spiritual person with materialistic or very scientific, or even nihilistic perspectives towards life?

anonreeeeplor 3 years ago |

Hey man,

I am 40 and have a house and kids. I used to get shockingly depressed. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy got me out of it.

I have since made and lost and made millions. I don’t feel any happier than I was when I was making millions. There were days when I would look in my account and see $50K increase.

The stock market is an illusion it was all just fake. Everyone is in your position post 40 in tech. No one is getting rich right now. Just look around. Everyone is going through it.

It isn’t a realistic mindset to think there is something specifically wrong with you. It’s everywhere.

In this market you should be looking ahead to where you want to be when the market improves: that means surviving the next two years with a hell of a lot new skills, better health and most importantly better skills at controlling your brain and attitude.

You and I are too old to be negative. No one in any position of responsibility can afford the luxury of waking up every day and just picking whatever random attitude they feel like having. That is a teenager or a child behavior.

If you have responsibilities, which we do as adults. To ourselves and our community and our family and our society we can only afford to choose optimism.

Even if it hurts. Even if you have to look at it sideways and squint. Even if you have to grit your teeth.

If you have responsibility, you have to learn to put on blinders and view the attitude you choose every morning as being like a game cartridge you load in a game console.

Read about CBT, read the power of positive thinking, how to lose at everything and still win big, everything by earl nightingale.

The old advice for Men from the 1950s is the best advice.

The world is a mirror. It will show you whatever you are projecting internally.

I strongly recommend investing in nutritional experimentation. My personal finding is that multi minerals, flax and sufficient protein make a lot of despair go away.

You need to choose a frame for yourself. I’m having to process this myself.

My friends who all worked in big tech, realized at 40 that it never ends. It’s just awful politics and never getting to do what they want so they all quit and became entrepreneurs.

My most successful friend is almost 60. He told me everyone goes through it.

From My perspective, I realized based on listening to him that the worries never end. You will feel like this from 40 until you die. That’s a long time.

The solution is all mental.

TheMagicHorsey 3 years ago |

A distant cousin of mine from India was in the same boat. He was a Mechanical Engineer from Osmania University in Hyderabad. In the early 2000s he came to Silicon Valley and was employed by Intel. He made a little money and bought a condo, he then joined a startup. Unfortunately the startup folded and he lost his health insurance. At the same time he developed some kidney issues and had to go on dialysis. His family convinced him to return to India so they could care for him.

He really languished there for a decade. His health is a bit better as he received a kidney transplant, but its far from ideal. He has many complications. He also missed out on almost 15 years of career progress due to his medical issues.

Also, India is very prejudiced against men with health issues so he could not find a wife through the traditional arranged marriage route (it didn't help that he was unemployed).

He sank into depression. When I visited him in 2016 I was really worried about him. He would not pick up the phone when I called. I started to write him letters ... he only answered maybe one in 10 letters. But I kept writing to him. I would send him books, and snippets of information on interesting projects I thought he would like.

He was interested in self-driving cars many many years before they became mainstream ... so I offered to pay for him to attend the Udacity class on the topic a few years ago. He started the class but never finished it. I didn't mind that he didn't finish it, but since the course was quite expensive he was filled with shame and wouldn't speak to me.

Finally, almost miraculously, something changed in him over Covid. You would think that in the isolation he would get worse, but he actually began to reconnect with his friends and family in the USA over Zoom starting in 2020. In late 2020 he started working on some open source projects in image recognition and some related math libraries.

From that work he got contract work. Its nothing huge, but its enough to pay his expenses in India and build some savings. He is really enjoying working remotely for a team in the USA. They offered him a fulltime job in Minneapolis, but due to his health and not knowing anyone in Minneapolis, he decided to remain remote and work from India. But his mood is palpably better now.

I don't know if its a turn around story ... but maybe the beginning of one?

jb-wells 3 years ago |

Key things to keep in mind that may help you:

Yes, many people restart their lives in their 40s, 50s, and you can to. But before that, you need to change your outlook on life.

Life is a journey, not a destination. In the end the only thing you have left are the memories. If you think success and happiness comes from how much money, friends and family you have, sooner or later you will be in for disappointment.

I think the key is being happy and moving on is to appreciate what we had in the past and do not take for granted what we have now or what comes next. Keep the memories of those you care about alive, let them visit you in your dreams. You were there for your father in his final days, that is priceless. Do you know how many people forget about their parents because they are too busy with their own lives? I know of at least one, this remains one my biggest regrets.

This time of the year is depressing for many people. One because the lack of sun brings down the mood, the cold weather tends to make people sleepy and lazy, well at least me. Find sunny weather if you can, or recognize that lack of sun can really affect your mental mood. Do what you can to change that and know that will pass in a few months.

This time of year also has holidays and reminders you should be with someone and with family. If you can, connect back with your family, if not, find new friends. People are friendly, just give them a chance. Join a meetup activity like hiking or dance,these are some of the good places to meet others. Pick up a book.

Another advice worth 2 cents. Find out who you really are? Some people are born to travel the world in one way or another. They never stay in one place. They wind up being sailors, musicians, sales people, digital nomads. These tend not to have much baggage. Others are born to have stable lives, and settle in one place, have house, family etc. Which one are you? People living one life style often envy the other.

About skills, require constant up keeping, just like going to the gym. You can get back into the game any time you want, but just make sure you are dedicated.

Which leads me to mention, at this time you must focus on your health both physical and mental, above all else. Then start skilling up both technical and for social areas. The key is to prepare yourself to take advantage of future opportunities that may not be obvious yet.

Never take anything for granted. Go outside, see a mountain view and sunset, and appreciate the moment.

netchkin 3 years ago |

You know, contrary to what others have said, you can debug yourself to a reasonable extent. It just takes shit ton of time and effort. And on top of that, you still might not get anywhere. For these reasons you might want to listen to what others have advised as it is a solid advice.

Warning: the following text is based only on anecdotal evidence and I am not a medical professional at all.

If I understand your situation correctly, your main problem are toxic habits you have formed, that of procrastination and then trying to excuse yourself. For every habit you have, there is a trigger. What you need to do first is to find the trigger(s). Get really good at noticing the triggers, first after you act on them, gradually try to do it before you act on them. Think about them. Ask yourself, what is their biological purpose. What is it that you are trying to compensate for (the answer is almost always dopamine), follow up with why do you need such compensation. Develop your own questions. Write the shit down. All of it. But do not ever be judgemental, only observe. This important, as judging yourself will prevent you from deeper introspection due to pain and clouded thoughts that are related. Do not judge yourself or your feelings. Just observe what happens. Gradually you'll see you have developed a habit of thinking instead of procrastinating. You can expand then your thinking to what would be more appropriate responses to your triggers and start mindfully executing them. The key is not to beat yourself to it, there will be setbacks and it is normal.

A side note, depending on your procrastination circumstances, it might be a good idea to refrain from visualizing big success in your head, esp. after small achievements. It just might spark the dopamine craving (and thus to procrastinate) and it might become far too easy to overcome.

What this approach does is it allows you to better understand yourself, your feelings. Procrastination might go away, it's just a habit and replacing a habit is actually scientifically examined process. One more thing is, as you become to understand yourself more, you also stop feeling hateful towards yourself.

Now, I am going to repeat, seeing a therapist is the best advice you could get, feel free to disregard the wall of text above. See multiple ones before deciding which one works for you the best. Good luck.

mach1980 3 years ago |

You and I want the same basic things. Among them food, sleep, and a home. Security and belonging. Love. The opportunity to contribute, be seen, and have meaning in our existence.

It is when I forget these truths that I start to believe that my unfulfilled needs are due to something outside of my own ability to influence. A bitterness arises towards you who have these things and I construct stories about how you are doing something wrong or that I am superior to you simply because I have the strength to withstand not having those needs met.

Beneath the shell, the facade, is a simpler but more difficult to digest truth. That my own need goes unfulfilled and I am angry about it.

And here I find a self-destructive behavior. You have a desire to help me get or create what I need in my life. But my pride and fear of being vulnerable gets in the way. And underneath it, the shame of being a burden.

With force I push back all attempts at kindness and care. I cling to the shell of bitterness and anger.

In this moment I try to ask myself:

    Can I acknowledge to myself that there is something I can change that could change everything for me?
    Can you actually WANT to share without a hidden agenda?
    Can I let go of my pride a little, just enough to receive the help?

Can I be humble, have enough self-esteem to believe in my own worth. To be worthy of the care extended to me by my fellow human? Do I dare believe in the inherent goodness of others actually wanting to do something for my sake?

I let go of the need to be alone I let go of the need to increase my pride through criticizing others and being bitter towards them I accept the basic goodness of my fellow humans, even if I feel betrayed by them I let go of self-criticism and accept that I too am fundamentally worthy of love

I create the opportunity for meaningful and loving interactions to exist in my reality

The world has enough villains. I let go of my bitterness, because I have understood that it deeply reflects my own shame and guilt. With that, I forgive myself for my self-justification and judgment of others.

I choose to live in a world where I can be vulnerable and open to receiving love and care. A world where I can give love and care to others without reservation.

throwawayhealth 3 years ago | |

A therapist is helpful but I would also suggest seeing a psychiatrist.

Clinical depression and mood issues need to be treated with medication. I would recommend finding a psychiatrist and get a referral for therapist from them if you are able to. You would be able to work together with both medication and theraphy to get better. It will take bit of a time to get better but don't be discouraged, OP. Progress will be slow and many goals you might think of may seem unachievable so it's very important you plan small steps and follow through them.

If theraphy is cost prohibited or have long waiting line in your country, from what I know of OP's situation - I recommend getting online sessions from therapist in other English speaking countries who might be cheaper locally.

xenotize 3 years ago | | |

In my experience, learning proper coping mechanisms, finding new hobbies, getting better sleep, better diet, getting enough exercise, making sure your vitamin levels are in line, were all much more effective than medication. Medication actually made feel worse and more trapped, and I've taken almost every single antidepressant that can be prescribed.

What worked for me will not work for everyone. It's important to try everything that you can and see what works best for you. For me, medication was not the answer.

throwawayhealth 3 years ago | | |

It's certainly a journey. I recommend checking with both for this reason. If one isn't working out, you would be able to tell which you respond to better. Medication also often take time to work and may need to go through months of experimentation if common prescription do not help. In the meantime, theraphy can act as a strong force in improving your life and vice versa.

engineeringwoke 3 years ago | | |

> Clinical depression and mood issues need to be treated with medication.

How to know someone is American before they even mention "other English speaking countries"

dang 3 years ago | | |

Please don't take HN threads into nationalistic flamewar. There could be an interesting point to make about how different countries and cultures approach mental illness, but snark and internet tropes are exactly the wrong way to do it.

The HN guidelines include: "Don't be snarky." "Eschew flamebait." "Omit internet tropes."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

caddemon 3 years ago | | |

Need is not the right word because it depends on the person. Some can get better with the right therapy alone. Others don't even respond to therapy + meds but might improve with more invasive neurological interventions.

But there are certainly people in our present world who do need meds to get out of the depression hole. There are people that do not respond to therapy alone but do respond to meds with therapy.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your comment, indeed the statement you're quoting is extreme. But I think HN has the tendency to go too far to the other extreme. At the end of the day, clinical depression is very heterogeneous. You need to do what works best for you.

Btw in case it isn't clear how meds are supposed to work in practice - medication for depression is not something you just pop and forget about. Any reputable psychiatrist will include therapy as part of the initial treatment plan, they don't just write a prescription and send you away.

Yes bad clinicians exist, but I think the pill popping trope for psych is way less common than people assume. Perhaps part of the source of this stigma is the role of the general practitioner. It is not uncommon to see random non-psychiatrist MDs prescribing SSRIs or stimulants, and in those cases it's a lot less likely the corresponding behavioral therapy is happening.

Anyway, medication is an absolute life saver for those people who need help in making the behavioral changes to begin with. There is a large body of studies at this point showing that simultaneous meds and therapy can improve depression symptoms more than the sum of their parts. Gold standard practice is to try tapering off of meds after the course of therapy, and more often than not the symptom improvements persist.

OP should get a professional opinion specific to his situation. He shouldn't go with the intention of seeking meds, but they should be something he inquires about. Some of the sibling comments here are acting like needing meds is a lack of will power, which is just as unhelpful as indiscriminately pushing meds.

throwawayhealth 3 years ago | | |

I'm sorry I made you feel that way.

I didn't mean to say everyone feeling depressed should take medication as the default solution.

When I prefixed "clinical" above, I wanted to imply persistent and chronically present issues.

Any decent psychiatrist will not prescribe you medication unless you absolutely require it and will run multiple tests ruling out heart problems, blood pressure issues, thyroid, liver, and many more. A therapist isn't qualified to run and test for alternative medical issues which may manifest as above.

This is why I really wanted to assert that seeing a psychiatrist or medical practioner is important first step.

You may have persistent depression due to unrelated medical issues which may need medication.

Chronic health issues often have a persistent medical cause but not always.

mardifoufs 3 years ago | | |

Ok now look up anti depressant intake levels in europe.

pknomad 3 years ago | | |

You're absolutely right that a therapy isn't THE solution to depression but I feel like it's a good starting point. A good therapist should be able to recognize if OP should be seeing a psychiatrist who then can prescribe the appropriate medication for managing his/her condition.

caddemon 3 years ago | | |

A halfway decent psychiatrist will also handle therapist referral. I don't see any issue with seeing a psychiatrist first, it's not like they just automatically hand out a prescription. It's actually way more common to see GPs do that for depression in the US.

That said, OP should probably look into both himself, see what the wait time and cost differences are between the two routes in his area.

boucher 3 years ago | | |

One possibly significant difference is that psychiatrists tend to charge a lot more.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

Please refrain from comments that could put people in danger. It is at best careless to say to someone with possible depression therapy may not be the answer.

throwawayhealth 3 years ago | | |

I have not suggested that. I strongly suggest trying theraphy above. The point of my comment is to also strongly consider theraphy with a medical practioner who will be able to help you using medication or diagnose any issues that a therapist cannot.

A therapist isn't qualified to make any diagnosis or prescribe tests and medication.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

So sorry I replied to the wrong thread. I left another comment on your here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34053767

kbelder 3 years ago | | |

But therapy might not be the answer. It's never wrong to speak truth.

It might very well be the answer, also.

OP is not asking for platitudes, he's asking for actual help, which is by necessity rooted in reality.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

100% second that.

Psychiatrists are real doctors with scientific, comprehensive, rigid education in STEM.

Last thing you want is a pseudo PhD from Berkeley who majored in psychology and studied "human rights" as her thesis.

vegabook 3 years ago | |

I'm 52. My life was a total mess, and I'm talking messed up relationships with my family, smoking like a chimney, debts, drinking and more . I cannot agree more that it is not the destination that gets you out of it, it's the courage to start the journey. Once you face the realities, deeply own them, and then genuinely change your day-to-day behaviour, things miraculously start happening even before you've cleared out all the problems. IE: your point about someone showing genuine honesty and courage in trying to get a grip on their lives. People really respond to that.

Personally, I'm lucky that throughout the above, I did keep up on technology. But another discipline I had to learn was not to give into my natural curiosity to try to learn everything that was interesting to me (Ocaml, Vulkan, Elixir, Yggdrasil Network, Rust, IOT, Matrix Protocol, Blender etc etc etc) all at the same time, but to stick to one or two and really persevere on them (I chose Rust). IE stop dreaming and giving in to curiosity, and learn one or two hard skills really well. T-shaped skills basically. No reason not to stay curious - helps you decide on the next vertical bar in the T. But don't waste too much time on breadth - also focus on depth so that at your later age, you'll still feel high confidence in yourself in this area even against the younger guns.

robertlagrant 3 years ago | | |

> IE stop dreaming and giving in to curiosity, and learn one or two hard skills really well. T-shaped skills basically. No reason not to stay curious - helps you decide on the next vertical bar in the T. But don't waste too much time on breadth - also focus on depth so that at your later age, you'll still feel high confidence in yourself in this area even against the younger guns.

This is exactly it. Finding something on which you can speak with authority is extremely valuable. Every third graduate coming out of university has been taught to sound confident from day 1. You can provide substance.

tigeroil 3 years ago | |

The part about attention from women is very, very true.

Obviously relationships are hardly the only thing that matters in life, but it amazes me how much more attention I get from women since I got my life together. Turns out a man who's figured things out and is doing reasonably well is very attractive.

rchaud 3 years ago | | |

The eyes never lie. Neither does body language; posture, tone of voice, conversational flow. All of those things change for the better when a person is genuinely content and secure with who and what they are.

docmars 3 years ago | | |

I think for me, the hardest part is reconciling two things: 1) maybe being _too content_ or satisfied with life's mundanity — the idea of being settled down and spending most of my free time at home with my dog, playing video games, reading news, watching interesting videos, and occasionally reading a good book — with the occasional social gathering with friends, whether that's hosting a small party, or going to a fun local festival or event, and 2) finding a woman who is okay with what could be considered a relatively "boring" lifestyle. Most I end up meeting and dating are stir-crazy, I find later.

I obviously enjoy getting out of the house, but it's seldom. I go on hikes, explore local events a small few times a year, and play in a recreational volleyball league once or twice per year in seasons.

Despite all of this, I once had a woman tell me she "doesn't want to live on the couch" in response to my overall sedentary lifestyle. That's completely valid of her to think that, but I for one don't mind how much time I spend at home engaging with mostly solitary hobbies while I'm not working. I'm also pretty stubborn and unmotivated despite my overall contentment and satisfaction with life.

I want to find a wife who is content with a mostly simple, settled life with a little adventure sprinkled in between, but not so much I start to feel home sick, and it doesn't take much. XD

rrgok 3 years ago | | |

This is me, this is me. Ahah. But, I'm not sure I'm looking for a wife though. it is draining having a partner/relationship for me. After a while, I just go silent and kinda avoid communication. I'm in my 30s, sometime I'm scared to be old and alone. I can't make my mind up. The fact is that I mostly like doing my hobbies alone. This makes difficult for me to have companionship. Even eating, I prefer to do it alone.

May I ask your age bracket?

docmars 3 years ago | | |

Ah yes! Sorry, I should have mentioned that. I am in my early 30's, dated a few women in my late 20's after a long break from dating, and was ultimately not successful. I am reasonably attractive/average, and can strike up a fun conversation, though I struggle with my longer-term relationships because I don't often have a lot new to share in life, and I love listening to other people's lives, as much as they're willing to share. I can always ask great follow-up questions and keep the conversation going smoothly — but I mention all this because it's certainly a core insecurity I have, that people may think I am not sharing enough with them because my life is so simple, and my interests are niche enough that I feel rude boring people to death about programming and gaming. Outside of that, I love politics, but that's a tricky topic.

I can relate a lot with what you said. I think deep down, I have a sincere desire to be married and (maybe) have children. The children part feels draining to me just thinking about it because I cherish my alone time and hobbies SO much. I know if I meet someone who respects my hobbies and alone time without any drama around it, that woman and I would be a very happy couple.

I'm with you though: I mostly prefer to engage with what I love doing alone, including eating. I will go out to eat with friends on occasion, or cook a tasty meal for friends hanging out at my house, but I generally have the luxury of solitude. One of by biggest fears is being bound to a regular interval of social activity, so if anyone ever tells me "We should do thing X or Y every Tuesday!", I panic, and soften the request with: "I may not be able to every week, but I'd love to from time to time. Let's figure out a day that works next week!" and go from there. Nobody is entitled to your time that regularly, especially as we get older and more committed to our responsibilities.

Finally I'll say, if you do decide to "get into the game" again with dating, just be upfront with whomever your partner is about your habits and preferences. It's hard not to feel like an asshole about it, but there are tactful, kind ways to strike compromise and understanding with those you love. When communicated as a deep need of your own, rather than an indictment against their social wishes, it can go a long way. Not everyone will agree or be amenable to that, but they also don't exist to shape your calendar or lifestyle. Another tip for early relationships, if you find there is tension around how much time you spend together, saying something like: "You know, I love spending time with you, but it's going to take some time for me to adjust to dating again. I've spent the last 10-20 years of my life comfortable being alone and chasing after my life without a partner this whole time. Thanks for being patient with me as we both adjust to this awesome new relationship!"

It's okay to expect others to adapt to your relatively non-intrusive ways of living. On the flip side, if you desire companionship with others, and thusly, a romantic relationship, some compromise will be necessary, but having secure, level-headed conversations about this with people is 100% the key. The empathy will flow both ways. I recommend reading "Attached" by Amir Levine for more insight on secure conversations with anxious or avoidant people.

"I just really need (and enjoy) being alone or being able to enjoy my interests without others interacting with me a lot of the time, and I know you love hanging out doing X and Y, and I love spending time with you whenever we're both feeling it, so let's play it by ear!"

Anyway, thanks for reading my novel. I hope this helps. It's encouraging to meet another person who feels the struggle between contentedness in solitude and our need for relationship.

baandang 3 years ago | | |

Yea that is just not going to happen.

I have dated so many divorced and separated women that just couldn't deal with the video games anymore. Way more so than financial problems. Financial problems didn't make them feel actively and completely ignored day in and day out.

Almost like the ultimate aphrodisiac in 2022 is a guy who hates video games.

docmars 3 years ago | | |

I'm sorry you feel this way, and it's easy to become cynical after several failures on that front (I'm assuming) — I know many happily married men with amazing wives who generously allow their husbands to play video games for a reasonable amount of time, and they have children too. It's not universal, but ultimately they found women who respect them.

Another parallel I draw is: many women binge shows on Netflix and Disney+, or binge-read fiction novels, or [insert their own hobbies here] — and they especially have no room to criticize men for playing video games. Heck, many women have taken up playing games too when they find the right genre.

> Yea that is just not going to happen.

I actually dated someone who was quite a homebody herself, but things didn't work out for other reasons, not so much our lifestyles.

If not receiving constant attention counts as being ignored, then I'm not sure what to tell them.

loa_in_ 3 years ago | | |

I guess it makes sense that the best outward facing thing is a minimum viable working thing. All said with all the things that one can't see in others, in mind.

TurkishPoptart 3 years ago | | |

Where are you getting the attention? In public? On dating apps?

flybrand 3 years ago | |

We can’t control if we find the right person - so control the things we can. Creating that confidence leads to a more confident exterior which is attractive to others!

spacemadness 3 years ago | |

Thanks for sharing that for the OP. The narratives we create in our minds to explain the world can be a huge source of suffering and act as giant barriers to any improvements we can make. “It’s too late because of X.” “The best years are behind me since I reached 40.” etc. I know this from experience in battling my own demons. Therapy can be a huge help here if OP can find the right therapist.

soheil 3 years ago | |

Great outlook. This is literally true though with modern medicine and standard of living at many countries.

If you take care of yourself, stay fit, fix your brain life only gets better. If you're a pissed off 25 year who can't get laid on a constant basis vs a contend 50 year old who has sorted their life, I'd take the latter any day of the week.

TurkishPoptart 3 years ago | |

Where do you end up getting the attention from women? In public, at the gym, or elsewhere? Asking for a friend.

davidjhall 3 years ago | |

What commercial classes did you take to level up? Were they Coursera, Udacity or university classes?

ogou 3 years ago | | |

I was trying to learn bankable React, but ended up learning much more. Udacity for the first Typescript and React courses, but they weren't made very well. I started (gasp) reading the documentation for many libraries and followed a few rabbit holes. A couple of months completing official tutorials I got lost and frustrated.

What put me over the top was a Frontend Masters subscription. By far the best value and flat monthly rate for all. Superior video courses for React/Typescript, but also advanced courses lower in the stack for Node, MongoDb, and an advanced javascript course. They have others I want to go back to, like web audio. I also took the dev interview and algorithm testing courses, which were super helpful.

bogeholm 3 years ago | |

Kudos buddy!

isthisthingon99 3 years ago | |

This is the way. Congrats bud.

mdtancsa 3 years ago | |

Very nice to hear! Way to go!!

baandang 3 years ago | |

To me, happiness as we age is making sure that we still have dreams and goals. My goal is to make my 50s the most exciting and interesting decade of life and then try to top it in my 60s.

Even if I don't reach the goal that is besides the point.

I am also though not acting out a romance novel with a wife, kids and living happily ever after. Disney is not going to make a movie that the prince gets divorced and lives happily ever after being single , no kids, and the freedom to do whatever they want.

gwd 3 years ago | |

> At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not for men (well, at least making babies: bringing up kids does get a bit harder as you age regardless of the gender).

And regardless, do consider adoption, even as a single parent. There are loads of kids taken away from parents who for whatever reason can't really care for them. Often there's a generational component: the kid's grandparent abused or couldn't support the parent; the parent ended up in foster care, exited out of the system at 18 with no support network, got pregnant, and can't really support the child. If they're not placed with an adoptive family, they spend the rest of their lives in foster care and repeat the cycle. You can make a world of difference.

My first marriage took a long time to resolve itself; by the time I married again, and we figured out that we were having fertility problems, my wife was "over the cliff" fertility-wise. We adopted a little one and he's been a real joy. You are wired to connect with children, and children are wired to connect with you; those circuits in your brain can't read DNA.

Obviously you need to get your own life sorted out first: lack of work and depression feeding into each other are major contributing factors to the problems the kids' biological parents have taking care of them. But get your head in the right space, a good support network around you, and a steady income, and there's no reason you can't be welcome a child into your family. Obviously having a partner can make the burden easier, but there were plenty of single-parent adopters in the "cohort" going through the adoption process with us. It's definitely do-able.

rlawson 3 years ago | | |

I second this! Had two bios, they got grown (as happens). Wife and I missing kids and fostered a little 5 month old girl and after two years adopted. She's 5 now and wife/myself are early 50's and she is the center of our universe and so much fun. We all fall asleep around 8pm :)

OP - You are young! Not even 1/2 way through life. You can do it.

trentnix 3 years ago | | |

Thank you for sharing this anecdote. It brightened my day. God bless you and your wife, and your daughter!

rlawson 3 years ago | | |

Thank you for your kind comment!

a123b456c 3 years ago | | |

Be cautious with this. Lots of kids need adopting no doubt. But adoption can be extraordinarily difficult for parents. I speak from experience. It's not something to be taken lightly.

rlawson 3 years ago | | |

You are right that you need to go into it with your eyes open. At least in my state it took about a year to get certified to foster and you set boundaries on what you can handle. For instance, I knew that I would not be equipped for a certain level of trauma/medical issues and indicated that. You still end up dealing with state agencies, family court, crazy relatives and lots of other stuff so it's not all sunshine. But in our case it was totally worth it.

enneff 3 years ago | | |

Raising children in general is not something to be taken lightly.

blablabla123 3 years ago | | |

That, I wanted to mention this myself. E.g. adopting kids that are already in school. That'll make their day and also considering today's divorce rates they'd probably be already studying should a divorce ever happen. I know families that adopted kids and everyone did really well (and did not divorce from what I heard anyway)

Eisenstein 3 years ago | | |

> And regardless, do consider adoption, even as a single parent.

I am struggling to think of any official agency which would pair a child with a single man. Is this really something that happens?

gwd 3 years ago | | |

As I said, there was one man in my "cohort" -- the group of parents that went through the adoption training together. He was a tradesman -- single, self-employed, my guess in his early 40's; he passed the screening process and adopted a school-age boy. This is a "local authority" in the UK. I'm sure rules vary from place to place, depending on culture, experience, and need. I do know they look extensively at your support network, history, and so on; presumably the requirements for a support network are higher when you're going to be a single adoptive parent.

riku_iki 3 years ago | | |

Additionally, there are many single women with kids, which also will be happy to restore semi-normal family and find life long partner.

saiya-jin 3 years ago | |

Second that age thing, 43 is not 'too old' for a man, past prime yes but definitely doable if your health is OK in that area. As a person who has 2 young kids (first when 39, second at 41) - in some regards I am much better parent than younger me, the only problem that probably got worse with age (for me) is patience. But parents are required to have endless amount of patience anyway and I've seen even otherwise stellar parents to lose it more than once when pushed enough. If you don't feel up to it anymore, look for single moms and give some proper good into the world, it desperately needs it now more than ever. Don't let (often ancient) social norms of your specific place rule your life, science is on your side.

Tons of other good advices here - if you think you really are suicidal (and not just fleeting emotion in the lowest position), get professional help, even if it means moving away. You owe to yourself as much as to anybody else, including your closest family. Otherwise try to get a job you want and like, AND get into some sports, whatever it is. Being active brutally increases mood, happiness and often integrates you with like-minded people. On top of usual stuff like better sleep, sex, longer better life overall etc.

Do some 'charity' work, helping unknown people with whatever, its extremely rewarding. Attempt in some way to overcome procrastination, attack it from different angles, ie set up appointments that you would feel ashamed to cancel later.

yodsanklai 3 years ago | |

> At 43, having kids is harder for women, but usually not for men

Finding a partner becomes hard, especially if you expect her to be 5-10 years younger.

I used to be rather successful with women, was never single, always could find someone easily. I'm 45, in good shape with a good job, but it has became much harder.

ambicapter 3 years ago | | |

> rather successful with women, was never single, always could find someone easily

The good news for GP is I think for a lot of people what you consider to be much harder is just the norm.

dbspin 3 years ago | | |

Totally agree with this. I have an older (late 50's) gay friend who considers himself 'over the hill'. He talks constantly about how hard it is to find someone etc. However, by comparison to myself and my other straight friends, it's trivially easy for him to find both sex and companionship. Essentially it was so easy when he was young and handsome, he learned an aversion to trying. It's not so much that he doesn't know how, it's that he feels he shouldn't have to. As an average looking straight guy, I find his entitlement absurd.

Same goes for OP. I'm literally his age, don't own property, have less in savings (I don't work in tech), and consider myself both lucky and free. Also lucky not to live in the US, where other people's perceptions of your relative wealth seems much more important for dating / social life etc.

Perspective governs so much of how meaningful and rich our lives seem. I look at my family / contemporaries who have children, or have crushed themselves at a desk for twenty years and feel inestimable gratitude I didn't sacrifice my life on that alter. OP's problem is a long period unemployment and depression, not some kind of nebulous 'failure'. Fortunately it's readily fixable. 43 is not remotely 'past it'.

hiram112 3 years ago | | |

> Essentially it was so easy when he was young and handsome, he learned an aversion to trying

I think a lot of women experience the same upon reaching middle age. In their 20s and early 30s, getting a date, sex, long-term relationship, etc. was as easy as firing up the app and letting a dozen men dance like monkeys for the chance to take her out.

By late 30s, this dynamic is gone for most women, and even starts reversing itself where by 40's, many men - and not just the "alphas" or gay men who also had an easy time in their younger years - have a lot more power in the dating market, though mostly because they aren't so beholden to their hormones, and can make decisions based on what benefits a particular women and relationship brings to his life. In most cases, the negatives outweigh the positives, and thus women and gay men now get to experience the same odds that most men dealt with all their life.

jfk13 3 years ago | | |

If you'll excuse me saying -- and I may be totally misreading your comment -- it sounds like what you were looking for (and finding) so easily in the past wasn't really a partner, at least in the life-long sense, but rather a string of casual relationships. That's not at all the same thing as wanting a wife and kids.

yodsanklai 3 years ago | | |

Not really, I had many long term relationships, and shorter ones in between. I wasn't a super popular man, but attractive enough that I could always find partners with reasonable efforts.

But in any case, I think it's not that different as wanting a wife and kids. You need to be able to seduce someone, whether it's for a casual relationship, or for marriage. It's start with physical attraction either way. I don't think mentioning "I want to get married and have kids" will give you a free pass which is ironic considering many women complain men only want casual relationships.

Modern dating where people meet online makes it harder too. A gay friend of mine who is 60 years old says that back in the day, he would meet guys in saunas or bars, and older guy would have a chance. But online, nobody want to meet a 60 years old guy.

docmars 3 years ago | | |

> I want to get married and have kids"

I think this just comes off as moving too quickly. After a few weeks of successful dates and comfort levels built, I've found this to be acceptable to mention casually, especially in a conversation meant for discussing goals.

It also softens things to say it like "Yea, someday I want to be married and have kids" but in a tone that doesn't include the woman you're dating yet.

They already know you're dating them presumably for this goal if you mention it, but it also communicates you aren't desperate and already thinking this far ahead with this person (even though you probably already are).

enneff 3 years ago | | |

How long term can they have been if you had “many” of them?

There’s a huge difference between seducing someone for a casual relationship and forging a deep friendship with the person who becomes your life partner.

ako 3 years ago | | |

I recently started taking dancing lessons, bachata, surprised by the amount of single women looking for a dance partner...

mancerayder 3 years ago | | |

> I used to be rather successful with women, was never single, always could find someone easily. I'm 45, in good shape with a good job, but it has became much harder.

You're also most likely much more selective. In your 20's and 30's, there's no feeling of a clock ticking.

scottLobster 3 years ago | | |

Yeah, as weird as it sounds, my wife and I are probably together now 14 years after we met because we had relatively low standards in our early 20s. Obviously you should have some baselines for fundamental character traits when considering a long-term partner, but we were both well-intentioned-but-half-developed at 21. If either one of us had been in a position to look down on our relatively lackluster lifestyles at that point, we probably wouldn't be happily married today.

I guess my point is prioritize fundamental character (honesty, communication, loyalty, values, etc), and someone you can have fun with. The rest can be taken care of with time and effort.

nsxwolf 3 years ago | |

Also, men can circumvent fertility issues by dating younger. I know two 40+ men who started families with 20+ women, and so far so good.

dweekly 3 years ago | | |

Starting a family with twenty spouses sounds like a lot of work, honestly.

robertlagrant 3 years ago | | |

Well, that's why there were two of them.

malfist 3 years ago | | |

Reminds me of chain marriages in The Moon is a Harsh Mistress

oezi 3 years ago | |

I agree that starting a family is very much still a possibility but also would suggest that it doesn't have part of a solution. Marriage and kids bring their own challenges and make any turn-around much harder.

I think solving your personal issues and the job should come first.

soheil 3 years ago | |

Second that.

I wish people would avoid not rejecting "it's too late for kids at 43".

The more implicit affirmation you hear on HN it strengthens that false belief.

salambombay 3 years ago | | |

Wow! So many negatives. I had to whip out pen and paper to figure it out: Negative: "avoid" Negative: "not" Negative: "rejecting" Negative: "too late..."

So, you're saying: you wish people accept its ok to have kids at 43?

xylophile 3 years ago | |

Another bit of recommended reading is The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus.

I had read Frankl years prior, and while he helped me thoroughly understand the concept of meaning and the immense value of it, he didn't help me find it when I needed it. All of his suggested paths felt a bit wishful or self-deceptive. Absurdism was the only conversation that felt like it was grappling with the problem directly and unadorned.

biinui 3 years ago | | |

May you give a gist on The Myth of Sisyphus? :D

murat124 3 years ago | |

There are many answers to what is the meaning of life. Lacking some important aspects of life like family, career, etc. because of past decisions, or losing someone dear may put anyone in a situation where they question the very meaning of life and even when things are all fine we look for a purpose to make sense of things around us. Some philosophers look at this question and argue for passion, some inner peace. Frankl says one needs to seek their own meaning of life. Find whatever it is, make it meaningful for you and hold on to it.

If you are in a dark place do yourself a solid and try reading Frankl's book mentioned by OP. Reading about Montaigne's life (there's a recent bio book about him) may also help. Seneca's or Marcus Aurelius's writings will also help when it particularly comes to the issue of how worrying too much about things we can't control affects us. Every living breathing soul has their own demons and issues with life, you have yours so most importantly go easy on yourself.

flybrand 3 years ago | |

Frankl is a great place to start.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

No a psychiatrist is. Stop wasting people's time and put them in more danger than they already are.

dubeye 3 years ago | | |

Speaking as someone who has done both, you are wrong, it's a great place to start

lo_zamoyski 3 years ago | |

> Life has no 'given' meaning

Careful [0].

The conclusion that life is meaningless as such is what follows from materialism by necessity. What is often unappreciated is that bad metaphysics leads to bad ideas, in this case that life is meaningless. And why is materialism at fault? Because it denies telos. Without telos, life is, indeed and quite literally, meaningless. But why should that trouble us if we, the world, all of it, were as the materialists say it is? Needs don't exist in a materialist universe because need implies telos (a need is always for the sake of something), and we suffer when needs aren't met, so where is this suffering about there not being any meaning in the first place coming from? So clearly, telos is real and materialism is, for this and other reasons, wrong. Otherwise, it makes no difference how you live, or even whether you live or die. Why should it bother you? It's all meaningless!

Another source of "meaninglessness" is moral in nature, specifically, that somewhere in our lives we pridefully rejected meaning because it opposed something illicit we wanted to do. Telos is the basis of morality, after all. This is something Aldous Huxley has written about. To quote him[1]:

“I had motives for not wanting the world to have a meaning; and consequently assumed that it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption. The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics. He is also concerned to prove that there is no valid reason why he personally should not do as he wants to do. For myself, as no doubt for most of my friends, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom. The supporters of this system claimed that it embodied the meaning - the Christian meaning, they insisted - of the world. There was one admirably simple method of confuting these people and justifying ourselves in our erotic revolt: we would deny that the world had any meaning whatever.”

Now, this sort of stuff about "consciousness" is like an existentialist opiate that temporarily soothes the pain of half-baked nihilism, but it is fragile b/c it is incoherent. Everything is meaningless, but I can invent meaning ex nihilo b/c "consciousness"? It sounds like we've quietly retreated from materialism into some kind of strange dualism where everything is meaningless but somehow "consciousness" is now pregnant with meaning. This may be the cunning of reason, leading us back slowly to the telos of human nature through a series of metaphysical halfway houses.

That's the theory. Practically speaking, people say one thing, but implicitly mean something else (materialists don't believe materialism with any real integrity because it is impossible). So when you say that "consciousness" gives meaning, you may in practice simply mean "This is the meaning I perceive" which may very well be the objective meaning. Or, it could be a way of maintaining one's refusal to conform to objective meaning and therefore objective moral duties by retreating into the virtual reality of subjectivism (this never ends well).

> happiness is one of the things that gives meaning to human life.

This is exactly backwards. Happiness is the result of satisfying the end(s) of human nature. Happiness is teleological and therefore presupposes meaning, not the other way around.

Of course, we are not guaranteed complete happiness in this life, but Kant, in a stoically severe bit of insight, said we nonetheless ought to strive to be deserving of happiness. This is the life of virtue.

[0] https://thomism.wordpress.com/2022/12/07/meaning-simpliciter...

[1] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/465563-i-had-motives-for-no...

cipheredStones 3 years ago | | |

> What is often unappreciated is that bad metaphysics leads to bad ideas, in this case that life is meaningless. And why is materialism at fault? Because it denies telos. Without telos, life is, indeed and quite literally, meaningless. But why should that trouble us if we, the world, all of it, were as the materialists say it is? Needs don't exist in a materialist universe because need implies telos (a need is always for the sake of something), and we suffer when needs aren't met, so where is this suffering about there not being any meaning in the first place coming from? So clearly, telos is real and materialism is, for this and other reasons, wrong.

What on earth does this mean? How does the existence or nonexistence of "telos" - the idea of "purpose" being a real thing that exists in the world - affect the fact that if I don't eat I die and if I don't talk to my friends for a long time I get sad?

ravenstine 3 years ago | |

THANK YOU

I know "see a therapist" is generally meant well, and therapy can definitely help, but people are way too quick to suggest it, and suggest it as a must. It can communicate that a person is broken when their situation can be due to any number of things besides brokenness. I think most people know that therapy is an option, and I think many also underestimate the difficulty in not only finding an adequate therapist but a therapist at all in any reasonable amount of time.

mancerayder 3 years ago | | |

"See a Therapist" being the first, top-voted comment is to me a sign of a sick society, where loneliness reigns. In a world where in middle-age your closest friends are married with kids, and most people prefer to be 'remote-first' in friendships (you chat online with even friends you know), the answer "see a therapist" is for most people instead just a proxy for the gap: the gap of close friends and family to be able to bounce ideas and feelings off of.

What should see a therapist is society itself, with top answers like that. Therapy should be reserved for the eccentric pathologies, not for routine middle-age crises and life situations.

enneff 3 years ago | | |

Why so hostile to therapy? I have a great supportive network of friends and family, but even so a few times in my life I have seen a psychologist that gave me actionable advice that really helped me deal with personal hardships. An impartial trained professional can often see much more clearly what you’re blind to; friends mean well but sometimes their intuitive advice is actually the opposite of what you need to hear.

throw1234651234 3 years ago | | |

An impartial, trained professional...in what exactly? Therapists / psychologists are glorified life coaches. "Psychology" is a mess. All therapists can do is act as a programming rubber duck equivalent.

What makes the psychologist more qualified to give advice to you than yourself?

Maybe the misconception comes from this "training" idea - people think there is some magical solution in psychology and it's not all a pseudo-science. P.S. if you are a trained psychologists, try to summarize psychology to me. Tell me what's left after you take away the failed theories of Freud, aversion therapy, Jung, etc?

o_nate 3 years ago | | |

It could be a valuable confidence booster to be able to talk to someone who projects confidence that they know how to help you, even if their advice boils down to little more than pep talks and encouragement to take some common-sense steps.

gardenhedge 3 years ago | | |

Refreshing to see this point of view. I see therapy being recommended as a full solution on reddit all the time

doetoe 3 years ago | | |

Actually the programming rubber duck is extraordinarily effective

barry-cotter 3 years ago | | |

Why would you call a therapist an impartial, trained professional? They’re no more impartial than a priest or imam and their provisional training has no bearing on the effectiveness of their treatment. By far the most important predictor of a positive impact of sending a therapist is the feeling that you and they have similar values and are working together[1]. Much as with teachers training has no detectable impact on effectiveness while experience does[2]. A priest who vines with you is as good as counselling as a therapist. It’s the vibes that matter, not the trappings of professionalism.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therapeutic_alliance#:~:text....

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Paul-Crits-Christoph/pu...

[2] https://psycnet.apa.org/record/1971-10064-001

enneff 3 years ago | | |

Psychologists are just humans, it’s true, and so they can be just as fallible as anyone. A good priest may also be helpful but for the non-religious they won’t have the essential shared values. By impartial I mean that they are at a remove from your day to day life, and are at least trained in how to ethically counsel someone.

mancerayder 3 years ago | | |

I'm not saying psychotherapy is useless, only that its proliferation is a sign of a gap in society, and that psychotherapy would ideally be reserved for fairly edge cases (traumas, genetic conditions, sudden extreme events, PTSD, etc.). NOT so much a routine go-to for common existential problems. The fact that this is the solution is a sad reflection of a society with holes in it. And further that the proliferation of an 'online presence' taking the place of in-person interactions can't be a coincidence. That's what I am saying.

ashray 3 years ago | | |

Thank you for having the time and patience to reply to everyone about psychotherapy and how it's not a one-stop-shop to fix all your issues. I feel the same but honestly do not have the patience to take on this immense debate with mostly people who blindly believe that some person with a basic degree has the knowledge, insight, authority, etc. to solve your life's problems. I personally cannot reason with people who have based their beliefs on 'blind faith'.

TchoBeer 3 years ago | | |

I don't see why psychotherapy should be reserved for fairly edge cases. On the opposite, I think that mental health is even more widely applicable than physical health.

nequo 3 years ago | | |

In Europe, we live in societies that witnessed two world wars, a Holocaust, and the less lucky corners of it Stalinism and also civil wars. That is enough trauma for anyone to take. And these are not edge cases.

We are children and grandchildren of people who went through all that and did not have any meaningful way to process it.

Our society is not sicker than it used to be. It is likely the opposite. And that is partly because we understand mental health better today so we can process our trauma. Including that which was handed over to us in the form of alcoholism, abuse, or neglect by our less fortunate ancestors.

ineedausername 3 years ago | | |

You hit the nail on the head, but it's too late for that now, therapy is the new trend and will only keep growing from here. And it's not a bad idea, what do you have to loose anyway.

In a sick society, everyone is sick by definition anyway... so yeah... therapy

skippyboxedhero 3 years ago | | |

I went through quite a bad phase...I started having mental-health problems, this triggered changes in my life that made everything worse, causing more problems, spiral.

I have been through three course of therapy, they helped me understand what was happening when I had an episode but...I was still in the same place, and that made all my mental-health problems worse (this isn't a post about that...but everything changed when one aspect of my material situation changed...when you go through this, everyone who has never had a problem like this will tell you therapy will help...maybe it will but your material situation is more important...there is no-one selling "material situations" at $200/hour though, so that tends to be emphasized less). No-one wants to acknowledge this because it makes mental health a trickier problem to solve.

I will say generally too: putting yourself in a situation where you are constantly looking for "the answer" is fundamentally unhelpful. You may not be able to overcome it yourself, but that doesn't mean a therapist can help.

theGnuMe 3 years ago | | |

Whatever man. Nobody is implying that therapy means you are broken. It’s about growth and self actualization.

Lots of people use "therapy" for performance optimization for example: sports psychology.

ravenstine 3 years ago | | |

That's really conflating two distinct things. Therapy is by definition the treatment of a pathology. A particular area of psychology doesn't necessarily have anything to do with pathology or malfunction.

> It’s about growth and self actualization.

I don't think the majority of people seeking therapy are doing so merely because they want to self actualize. Self actualization and growth may be a part of therapy, or be a next step as roadblocks are overcome, but implying that therapy isn't about addressing problems seems naive or disingenuous. Performance optimization really has little to do with what people actually mean when they're suggesting "therapy."

theGnuMe 3 years ago | | |

That’s a strange definition of therapy.

ravenstine 3 years ago | | |

I have an idea. You do a cursory investigation on what "therapy" is and the come back here and tell us why my definition of therapy is strange.

When someone refers others to therapy in a generic sense, why do you think that's effectively the same as suggesting self actualization? Is the other party looking for self actualization, or are they probably looking to figure out the root of their problems?

mberning 3 years ago | |

I agree 100%. It can help some people, but it's not a panacea. I have known people that went to therapists for years and didn't really make any progress. And some people arguably get worse. For example, what's the benefit of a therapist that gives you the illusion of making progress and you stay in a poor relationship longer than you otherwise would. That actually happened to someone I know. They stayed in a relationship for years trying to "fix" things. Then within a year they left their crappy situation, met someone way better, and is happier than ever. Be careful with seeing a therapist. And be very careful recommending them to people. I think a lot of people doing the recommending don't actually have first hand experience with it.

a123b456c 3 years ago | | |

It's easy to find a therapist. It's much harder to find the right therapist for you.

senbrow 3 years ago | | |

10000%; I thought therapy was pretty ineffective until I found a therapist that is a good fit, at which point I realized that a lot of therapists are just straight up bad at their jobs.

Therapists that are well matched to their patients are capable of truly incredible stuff.

filereaper 3 years ago | |

Its better than the OP seeks help from someone trained in this domain rather than getting an anecdotal therapy session from these comments.

Getting professional help shouldn't be stigmatized as a cop out.

shadowbanned-00 3 years ago | |

Therapy is like covid boosters. Every two months for infinity and you never get any better.

tw600040 3 years ago | |

Agree 100%. One needs help for sure, but help doesn't mean therapist. It's someone who cares, parents / sibling / spouse / cousins some family or close friends who truly care. Don't be alone

soheil 3 years ago | |

> No offense to the reply, but “need a therapist” is a very American response and a bit of a cop out.

Why?

I'd change it to "need a psychiatrist".

vjulian 3 years ago | | |

I don’t follow your last sentence.

Why? Because it is a very American approach that is less the norm elsewhere. Therapy is not an industry to such a degree necessarily in other countries. Cop-out because it is akin to RTFM, ‘go Google it’, ‘delete and re-install’. If one doesn’t have a personal viewpoint, why bother responding.

halkony 3 years ago | | |

Psychiatrists differ from therapists in the US because they can prescribe meds. Antidepressants, ADHD meds, etc. Not sure what his point is though.

I understand your frustration with the "go to therapy" response. Even in the US there is a dismissive undertone to comments like this. The reality is that the people who get the most out of therapy already have a positive outlook on its benefits.

Therapy doesn't fix anyone directly -- it gives a people a vehicle to look for ways to fix themselves by talking to a non-judgmental arbiter. People that have already done that tend to take it for granted and obviously there's a ton of variance in results/quality of therapeutic conversation.

caddemon 3 years ago | | |

Eh I don't think a random non-judgemental arbiter would have the same efficacy. Therapy also usually involves teaching specific tools for dealing with negative thoughts. Parts of that could be outsourced to a workbook, but at times there is helpful personalization that occurs.

It's totally true that it requires some buy-in, but so does an exercise routine. Things that require effort require buy-in.

It is also true that there's a ton of variance and that some people who give it an honest try still don't really improve. This stuff is still really poorly understood for the most part, and I don't think therapy is a silver bullet. Neither is anything else anyone suggests.

So yeah therapy is far from perfect, but I think it's selling it a bit short to suggest that the entire effect boils down to a facilitated self-conversation.

I also don't get why others are so annoyed by the therapy suggestion, as I don't really see the downside of trying it. OP should look into all the options he might have, which IMO is the point of seeking community advice. You're not going to get an exact answer from HN comments, just some ideas.

tacticalturtle 3 years ago | | |

Not the original poster, but regarding the last sentence, a psychiatrist is a medical doctor who can prescribe medication.

A medical doctor can evaluate the OP much better than we can, and determine if medication may be able to help, in addition to changing thinking patterns.

soheil 3 years ago | | |

What? No it's like format whatever that shit is and install Ubuntu.

tgv 3 years ago | |

We're not therapists, but many people don't need therapy: their cry for help doesn't mean they're short on dopamine or have childhood trauma. They're simply destitute. Therapy also isn't a magical bullet: it's not exactly engineering.

What we can give is some experience, and heartfelt advice. Perhaps there's something of value in this thread, if not for poor OP, then for another person that feels the weight of expectations on his/her shoulders.

boppo1 3 years ago | |

I recall that this hotline basically just calls your local authorities and prevents you from being a danger to yourself by having you committed to a mental health facility. Sub-optimal.

fnord123 3 years ago | | |

If OP is in Germany (they say they studied in the US implying that they are no longer there; and their nick is Deutscher) then https://www.telefonseelsorge.de/telefon/ claims to be anonymous.

hnbad 3 years ago | | |

If OP is in Germany, I can second this recommendation. They're funded via Christian organizations but as far as I'm aware the hotlines themselves are secular by default so if you're an atheist or non-Christian you don't have to worry about them pushing anything religious on you. Also, given how strict German privacy laws are, their claims of anonymity are as reliable as they can be (caveat: don't confess to any major crimes you have committed as those are usually not covered by privacy laws).

The easiest way to access a therapist is to ask your general practitioner (Hausarzt or Allgemeinmediziner) for a referral. You'll still have to find one yourself but they can direct you towards a list. The wait times can be very long but the sessions (and meds if any) are covered by public health insurance.

ipnon 3 years ago | | |

Mental health facilities are not good for your mental state. If you thought you knew what mental anguish was just wait until you get to the big leagues. They dope you up and you sit around in a sterile hospital bed until you get the hint that you can’t go home until you stop voluntarily reporting symptoms of wanting to self harm.

athenot 3 years ago | | |

In the US, this is not true.

First they will talk you down if there is imminent danger. There are some real skilled people that are good at de-escalation. They might try to get you in touch with any fiends or relatives you may trust, and even conference them into the call with your permission. (I was called by them.)

They can also dispatch a team to help calm down any acute episode of severe depression / suicide ideation.

They can recommends a voluntary committment to a mental health facility. Involontary committment has certain criteria regarding safety and imminent danger, at which point it would involve the police and they would be the ones making that call.

If not a mental health facility, they do recommend getting a psychiatrist ASAP and provide referrals. And they call back a few days to check on the caller, to ensure they followed through and are seeking help.

Source: A close relative experienced this first hand.

cnlwsu 3 years ago | | |

Seems like unnecessary shade to throw on the helpline. There was a viral thing a bit ago making rounds on social media accusing them of it but its far from reality. There are like 50k of 3 million calls a year that result in contacting the authorities, but its extreme scenarios.

Its a rare thing and highlighting it as the default scenario is spreading FUD and possibly keeping people from getting the help they need. It is true though that if you call and describe an immediate plan to kill yourself there is some legal, ethical, and liability requirements that mean they will call authorities. Exact same thing if you tell your doctor or therapist.

eastbound 3 years ago | |

Ah, suicide hotlines.

Ok, he must absolutely do it if he needs. BUT.

- For men, they’re underfunded, at least in my country (France). I called them a few times in my life, can’t count the number of times the answering machines were like “We’re open Tuesdays, 7pm-midnight” or “You are the … 7th … in the queue”. Or it’s a hotline for teens. Or it’s a hotline for suicide AND familial violence.

- Many suicide hotlines are for women, or designed for women and incapable of dealing with men’s problems. As in “I… I… can’t date” “Well just ask a girl out”. Yeah right, words of a woman, it works for them this way to they project that it must be easy for men.

The night I called 7 of them just to get no answer gave me a hit of anger, which was enough to pull me through. I wanted to take revenge for the world not caring enough about us.

nonethewiser 3 years ago | |

This comes off more as condescending than helpful.

seanw444 3 years ago | | |

I've never understood this. If I was suicidal, being given the suicide hotline number as a response would just tick me off.

meepmorp 3 years ago | |

Being unhappy with how your life is going doesn't equate to being suicidal.

DMell 3 years ago | | |

> after being scared by my first real suicidal ideation a few nights ago.

While there is a lot of validity to asking others about their experience, there is also validity in speaking with a professional.

Madmallard 3 years ago | |

There's legitimately good advice in this thread.